If President Obama were indeed born in Hawaii, was it while the islands were a territory of the United States?

A new wrinkle in the dispute over his birth – and whether he is eligible to be president under the U.S. Constitution’s requirement that the president be a “natural born” citizen – appeared today when Obama’s official MySpace page declared his age is 52, thus placing his birth year at 1957 instead of 1961 as has been claimed.

That would mean he would have been born during the archipelago’s time as a territory of the U.S., the islands’ status from about 1900 until statehood in 1959.

First of all, surely the birth date is simply a typing mistake by Obama or whoever put the MySpace page together. Or, perhaps they did it on purpose to mess with people.

Second, the NY Times pulled this same “we’re just wondering” silliness regarding John McCain and him being born in the Panama Canal Zone (shockingly, soon after the DU pulled it.) Twice. The relevant point is that anyone born in territories under the jurisdiction of US law, the Panama Canal Zone and the Hawaiian Territories being two of them, are considered Natural Born Citizens, eligible to be President of the United States. Someone born in Guam would be eligible. Someone born in Puerto Rico would be eligible. Interestingly, if someone was born on a military post in Germany, they would be a US citizen, but, not “natural born.”

World Net Daily, quite frankly, does an even worse job of discussing this issue than the Times did. Neither NY Times article answered the question of whether McCain was eligible, and, had he won, I believe we would have seen a movement from the Left pushing that he wasn’t eligible. Regardless, WND doesn’t even provide a maybe/maybe no argument: they just throw it at the wall in a way to get people riled up.

Even supposing Obama was born in Hawaii in 1957, he is a natural born citizen. Try again, WND.

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

If there’s been a more clinically insane political phenomenon in my lifetime than the “birthers,” I’ve missed it. Is this what our national discourse has come to? Sheer paranoid fantasy?

Well, yes there has, Eugene. They are called the Truthers. They think the US government, led by George W. Bush, knew about 9/11 ahead of time and did nothing and/or made 9/11 happen. And don’t forget this little tidbit I wrote about on August 2nd, Eugene buuuuuuddy

But, then we have that 2007 Rasmussen poll, in which 35% of Democrats believe that the President of the United States knew about the attacks, and 26% aren’t sure, despite years and years of debunking every crazy Twoofer conspiracy theory. Matter of fact, these people are still going strong. Screw Loose Change is still documenting the idiocy of the Twoofers as we approach 8 years since that horrible day. The idiots at 9/11 Truth and other wackadoodle sites are still digging and insane. They even have a new one, in which Bin Laden and the Taliban worked with the U.S. right up to 9/11. The Democratic Underground’s September 11 forum is still replete with conspiracies. And the Loose Change nuts are still at it, making money off of gullible, stupid, and wacko Democrats (yes, gullible and stupid are rather redundant.)

That’s clinically insane, Eugene. And you have all the other wackadoodle conspiracy theories of the Left

• Bush stole the 2000 election
• Bush stole the 2004 election
• Diebold
• Bush lied about the WMD and all the stuff associated with this
• Bush was AWOL
• Dan Rathers fake documents
• The Valerie Plame affair
• Bush is doing cocaine
• Bush is drinking again
• Cheney is the actual president
• Bush planned Iraq before taking office
• Iraq and Afghanistan are about stealing their oil
• and all your 9/11 conspiracies, including LILHOP and MILHOP

I’ll certainly agree that there are some in the Birther movement who are way, way, way out there. But, if we want to talk nutso, Eugene, you should look at your own party first. They were driven insane when Bush legally and Constitutionally won the 2000 election (hey, if your boy, who, yes, I voted for, could have only won his freaking home state…..), and they never looked back.

Say, why not drop Eugene an email letting him know there is a more clinically insane political phenomenon. eugenerobinson@washpost.com

Crossed at Pirate’s Cove

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

scheming daemons The brutal bottom line on the “birthers” that nobody wants to say out loud

They won’t stop until Obama is murdered.

The “birther” angle is just part of the larger “marxist, anti-american, usurper, tea party, take-our-country-back, ‘wolverines!’” angle.

They cannot, will not, accept Barack Obama as their President.

They want him dead. They want to drum up enough Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt until some crazy Scott Roeder-like character comes along and does what they don’t have the courage to do themselves.

They are creating the conditions, willfully, for the next Timothy McVeigh to emerge and act.

That is their intent. They’re not even hiding it that well anymore. They’re just waiting for the November-1963-Dallas moment to present itself to one of the crazies they’ve cultivated. And they’ll have plausible deniability, since it will be a “lone wolf” acting on his own fear and paranoia with no direct traceability to the Limbaughs, Becks, and Liddys of the world.

Scott Roeder was created by Operation Rescue and their rhetoric.

Timothy McVeigh was created by the Arkansas Project and its rhetoric.

Some future assailant is being created right now by the Orly Taitz’s of the world. We can laugh about it all we want… and their claims ARE laughable.

But their goal is a coup d’etat. By any means necessary. And it only takes one nut job to get past the Secret Service to make it happen. They’re planting the seeds by creating THOUSANDS of nut jobs.

Godspeed, Secret Service.

Um, Oooooooo-kaaaaaaaay. You caught us. It is a massive Vast Right Wing Conspiracy plot to to move from simply asking for proof of place of birth in the form of the long form birth certificate, as required by that pesky Constitution thingy, to a coup d’etat. Sure thing, sparky. *

Last time I checked, it wasn’t the right that was fantasizing and wishing for the presidents death.

After that DU post, is there any reason to even delve into the comments of the post?

*for the Liberalism Impaired, that was what is called “sarcasm.” And, just for giggles

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

58 percent of GOP not sure/doubt Obama born in US

And the story

A whopping 58 percent of Republicans either think Barack Obama wasn’t born in the US (28 percent) or aren’t sure (30 percent). A mere 42 percent think he was.

Let’s jump into Doc Brown’s DeLorean for a brief cruise, shall we?

Democrats in America are evenly divided on the question of whether George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 terrorist attacks in advance. Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure.

So, I could have conceivably gone with the headline

61 Percent of Democrats believe/not sure that Bush knew in advance about 9/11 attacks

It’s the first number that should be focused on. A mere 28% believe Obama wasn’t born in the US. That could easily be settled for most, along with the not sure’s, by releasing the long form birth certificate. That would make this issue go away for most Republicans. There would still be, of course, some nuts who will continue to have fun and/or be way too serious about this issue, kinda like the Paulnuts who would immediately show up on any blog who wrote a negative post about Rep. Paul. Even Ace agrees with releasing the BC, so we can just move on, because this is a distraction.

Others have their own thoughts, and that is OK, because being a Conservative means having a meaningful, civil, adult debate, unlike the left, which, if you do not believe the exact same thing, you will be called a racist, bigot, have their attempted smear “you believe in God, don’t you?” thrown at you.

And let me point out one more time, I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, is considered to be a natural born citizen, and has every right to be president. I suspect there is something embarrassing on the certificate of birth (versus the short Certification of Live Birth) that he doesn’t want people to see, hence the lawsuits.

But, then we have that Rasmussen poll, in which 35% believe that the President of the United States knew about the attacks, despite years and years of debunking every crazy Twoofer conspiracy theory. Matter of fact, these people are still going strong. Screw Loose Changeis still documenting the idiocy of the Twoofers as we approach 8 years since that horrible day. The idiots at 9/11 Truthand other wackadoodle sites are still digging and insane. They even have a new one, in which Bin Laden and the Taliban worked with the U.S. right up to 9/11. The Democratic Underground’s September 11 forum is still replite with conspiracies. And the Loose Change nuts are still at it, making money off of gullible, stupid, and wacko Democrats (yes, gullible and stupid are rather redundant.)

So, you tell me which is crazier. And, let’s not forget that Democrats/liberals/progressives came up with conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory regarding Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. for 8 years. Iraq was about stealing their oil. Bush stole the 2000/2004 elections (the 2000 one still can drive them into apoplexy.) The TANG “documents.” WMD. You know the hit parade. Now they work on creating phony stories about Sarah Palin. Other than the birther craze, how many other conspiracy theories have Republicans/Conservatives come up with?

Anyhow, 35% to 28%.

Crossed at Pirate’s Cove

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

Look, unlike the 9/11 Twoofers, there are 3 different birther camps here. First is those who believe Obama is a natural born but just have some slight doubt due to how hard Obama and the Democrats are fighting, and spending mass amounts of money, to stop the release of a $10 long form BC, easily obtainable. Second are those who do not believe he is a natural born citizen, and may delve into some conspiracy theories, but, want a legitimate answer, and would be satisfied with the long form BC. Third, there are those who are as wacko as the Twoofers, and nothing short of impeachment will satisfy them. Unfortunately, they tend to be the most vocal and the ones who file the most lawsuits.

Like with so many things, there are folks that are plainly going way overboard, and, because of the 24 hour news cycle, the gazzilion and one news media sites, the gazzilion and one blogs out there, and a sensationalistic society, it is often the crazier stuff that gets highlighted. No one cares about the plane that made it to the terminal just fine.

Not everyone who wanted to know what was going on with the Valerie Plame affair was barking moonbat. Not everyone who wondered about the WMD not found in Iraq (although, finding WMD wasn’t really the point of going into Iraq, but, that is a different argument,) and not everyone who had questions about 9/11 was 6 short of a six pack. Some wanted actual information and to get to the bottom of the story. But, who did we hear from the most? The nuts.

Personally, I would love this whole issue to go away, and there is a simple answer. To my chagrin, Andrew Sullivan agrees with folks like myself, Tom Maguire, and others

So many readers are furious that I have dared to ask the president to show the original copy of his birth certificate. The reason for demanding it is the same reason for demanding basic medical records proving Sarah Palin is the biological mother of Trig.

Because it would make it go away and it’s easily done.

I’m tired of these public officials believing they have some right to privacy. They don’t. It’s the price of public office. If you don’t like it, don’t be president. And for goodness’ sake, don’t run for president on a platform of transparency.

Sigh. It pains me, truly pains me. But, then, I agree(d) with Al Gore, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and other Democrats on certain issues. As much as I called Ron Paul and some of his supporters nuts, they did have some good points (and, please, don’t start in on me on Ron P. It will be ignored and deleted.)

Now, there is a huge difference between asking for the birth records of Trig and Obama’s actual birth certificate, rather than the Certification Of Live Birth. The Trig records have absolutely nothing to do with the qualifications for Palin to be VP, or even President (not to mention it being rather obssessive and intrusive. Even politicians have some privacy rights.) Whether Obama was actually born in Hawaii does.

And, I will say yet again, I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen, until someone can prove with concrete evidence otherwise. What keeps me mildly interested is why Obama and other Democrats are fighting so darned hard against the suits to force him to release what is essentially a $10 piece of paper. One which would list where exactly he was born. As Maguire has written many many times

As I have said before, the motive back in 1961 could have been quite different.  Perhaps the mother and maternal grandparents feared for the day when the white Ms. Dunham would be contesting with a black Kenyan man in a Kenyan court for custody of a black Kenyan baby (or British, or whatever Obama’s nationality might have been.)  They would have been well advised to take steps to tilt the playing field a bit by documenting their son as a US citizen, irrespective of any Presidential aspirations.  Name the baby ‘Barack’ in the hope it works out, document him as an American in case it doesn’t.  [But in a court case, surely the father would squawk about the fraud, yes?  Well, if mom can limit the he-said she said dispute to an American court, where will his witnesses be?  But it's a good point.  That said, in my first post on this I did note other reasons to seek American citizenship.]

There could simply be something on there that is embarrassing to Obama on the long form. Sullivan may be a total and complete moonbat on certain issues, such as Trig, but, in this case he is correct. Release the form, and things will probably go away. Obama promised to have the most transparent administration ever. Of course, we know what his promises are worth and how they all have expiration dates.

Perhaps if we had journalists who were actually inquisitive about politicians, instead of just about Republicans. They blew off the John Edwards affair. They sat on the Bill Clinton issue. They never forced John Kerry to release his military records. But, Bush had to release everything. EVERYTHING. McCain was hounded to release his birth certificate and every shred of medical records. The media allowed Obama to release a tiny 1 pager on his health.

So, once you take the conspiracy folks digging for this and that out of the equation, we are left with a simple proposition: why won’t Obama release his actual BC? Conservatives from all over are refusing to debate the issue or even consider it, simply calling all folks who wonder about the BC nuts, after working so hard to debunk the Truthers, and Sullivan’s Trig conspiracy theories, among others. Interestingly, they are throwing up post after post, story after story, saying “we’re aren’t going to discuss this! Just move on!” I’d like to thank folks like that for keeping the issue alive

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….”

Just a thought here, but, if Dr. Chiyome has peeked at it and is releasing that information, that is against state privacy laws. Here’s a simple solution: let John Roberts have a peek. Let Bush 41 or 43 have a peek. Let John Boehner have a peek. Just one of them. That could solve the issue and make it all go away for the normals.

But, yeah, there are nuts in the Birther-sphere, just like in all walks of life. But, maybe some others should open their minds a wee bit and ask themselves “why would someone spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid releasing a $10 form that the media clamored for Obama’s opponent to release?”

Perhaps someone who is so vehemently against this could explain what the problem with asking for the long form is, since the short form released only on the web, and to the Daily Kos first, which doesn’t list place of birth, is also not legal to apply for a passport or as a form of ID in most states.

Oh, and someone please tell me that I will never, ever, ever, agree politically with Andrew Sullivan ever again. Though, I do enjoy the outdoors photos he posts.

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

Henry Louis Gates Jr., the black professor at the center of the racial story involving his arrest outside his Harvard University-owned house, has spoken proudly of his Irish roots.

Strangely enough, he and the Cambridge, Mass., police officer who arrested him, Sgt. James Crowley, both trace their ancestry back to the legendary Niall of the Nine Hostages.

Isn’t it ironic, as the story points out later on? What are the chances they are sorta somewhat related? But, it gives the media a good chance to discuss slavery and how evil white men are.

If only the media spent as much time researching Obama’s stances during the campaign and since he took office, instead of worshiping at the alter of That One. If only the media had spent any time debunking the Truthers. If only the media would have asked why John Kerry never released his full military records. If only the media asked one simple question: why won’t Obama release his actual long form certificate of birth.

Meanwhile, as Doug Powers, posting over at Michelle Malkin points out, all of a sudden, the Generational Theft Act is going to give money to support law enforcement. Funny how this use of the funds only happens after the President insults a police department.

And for your “I wonder if libs will complain about this the same way they whined about Bush supposedly doing it” story

The White House has taken on a wider role in forming a backup government in case a crisis forces officials to leave Washington.

Government officials familiar with the plans tell The New York Times that the initiative began during the final months of the Bush administration, and the Obama administration decided to leave it in place.

The White House Military Office will now lead the way in installing a “shadow government” should officials have to leave the capital because of a terrorist strike or some other catastrophe. The contingency plans include moving those officials to Mount Weather, Va. and running backup computer systems.

Expect the left to blame Bush and not mention Obama.

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

Now, I don’t want to get into all the claptrap about the birth certificate. Because the whole story is just unadulterated, raw nonsense. What I do want to figure out, however, is a question that’s been rattling around my head for something like a year now. I have never seen any serious argument that the child of an American citizen, even if born abroad, isn’t him or herself a natural born American citizen. Yes, it’s now and again been raised as a topic with a wrinkle of ambiguity in the law; but the issue has never been that people actually believe such children aren’t ‘natural born’, only that it’s a phrase that was never expressly defined and there’s never been an opportunity to have a court review it since there’s never been a case with the relevant set of facts.

Yeah, just like that issue involving the phony cBS Texas Air National Guard documents, right, Josh? I mean, you obviously thought the story was just unadulterated, raw, partisan nonsense, right? Oh, wait, guess not. Here’s his last post on the subject

I’m clearly not a forensic expert on document analysis. So I don’t have any way of knowing or even coming up with a reasoned opinion about the authenticity of these documents published by CBS.

But one point of criticism doesn’t seem as clear as many are presenting it. I’m talking about the suggestion that a superscripted “th” marks these as clearly the product of a word-processing program.

So, even though the documents were clearly demonstratively fake, and Josh is no expert, he decided they were real, and posted quite a bit with the position that the docs were real, and Bush had to prove them wrong. But, this wasn’t unadulterated, raw nonsense, you know.

To be clear, I believe Obama is a natural born citizen, and will take that position until someone provides concrete proof. However, considering that the Constitution states that one must be a natural born citizen, why is it so much to ask for Obama to provide that proof?

Just One Minute also jumps in on the birthers vs. twoofers issue, which I sorta covered myself the other day.

Others discussing the birther issue, which is growing legs, much to the obvious horror of the Left: Just One Minute, D-Day, PoliGazette, QandO, The Moderate Voice,

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

Mr. Phil Griffin [president of MSNBC] said the claims were legitimate to cover “in that there’s a segment of our population that believes this and keeps bringing it up.”

“It’s racist,” Mr. Griffin said. “Just call it for what it is.”

Shorter Phil Griffin: “I have no idea how to debate this, so, I’ll just call y’all racists.”

Look, unlike the 9/11 Twoofers, there are 3 different birther camps here. First is those who believe Obama is a natural born but just have some slight doubt due to how hard Obama and the Democrats are fighting, and spending mass amounts of money, to stop the release of a $10 long form BC, easily obtainable. Second are those who do not believe he is a natural born citizen, and may delve into some conspiracy theories, but, want a legitimate answer, and would be satisfied with the long form BC. Third, there are those who are as wacko as the Twoofers, and nothing short of impeachment will satisfy them. Unfortunately, they tend to be the most vocal and the ones who file the most lawsuits.

But, for all you folks who scoff at this curiosity, remember, we had to deal with

• Bush stole the 2000 election
• Bush stole the 2004 election
• Diebold
• Bush lied about the WMD and all the stuff associated with this
• Bush was AWOL
• Dan Rather’s fake documents
• The Valerie Plame affair
• Bush is doing cocaine
• Bush is drinking again
• Cheney is the actual president
• Bush planned Iraq before taking office
• Iraq and Afghanistan are about stealing their oil
• and all your 9/11 conspiracies, including LILHOP and MILHOP

Those were some of the biggies. You can easily hunt around for more. I asked one big blogger a few years back (I’m not going to drag his name into this) why he kept shooting down the wackadoodle theories of the Truthers instead of ignoring them. He wrote back and said, to paraphrase, “because you have to answer these folks with facts to destroy their theories.” Well, the same person, and others, refuse to discuss this in any sort of rational way now, even along the lines and with those who are in the first category.

Just to be clear, I consider myself to be in the first category, and it is a very minor interest. If we never see the BC, fine. I’d rather spend my time working to defeat Obama’s insane progressive agenda.

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

“To the extent that we could, we looked into the substantive side of these allegations,” said Potter. “We never saw any evidence that then-Senator Obama had been born outside of the United States. We saw rumors, but nothing that could be sourced to evidence. There were no statements and no documents that suggested he was born somewhere else. On the other side, there was proof that he was born in Hawaii. There was a certificate issued by the state’s Department of Health, and the responsible official in the state saying that he had personally seen the original certificate. There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser, which would be very difficult to invent or plant 47 years in advance.”

Look, I’ve written, and said, time and time again that, IMO, Obama is a natural born citizen till proven otherwise by concrete evidence.

On the flip side, a birth announcement from back then is not proof of birth. Anyone could have placed it, and, who at a paper would check it? That Certificate of Live Birth that was printed in 2006 and first showed up on the Daily Kos? Real, IMO. However, just 40+ years ago, it would have been easy to claim a birth, as people did not always have them at a hospital. So, as Tom Maguire writes

My point, then and recently – Barack’s mom and maternal grandparents had a strong incentive to create a paper trail documenting Obama as a US citizen back in 1961 and it had nothing to do with assuring his future viability as a Presidential candidate.  All they needed to do was imagine a day when the white Ms. Dunham would be engaged in a custody fight in a Kenyan court contesting the fate of a black Kenyan baby sought by the black Kenyan father and his African family, and their course would have been clear.

Would someone have lied about where a baby was born in order to make sure they had full American citizenship? Sure. People have been coming to the US legally and illegally for quite some time. You didn’t, and don’t, see them streaming to Russia and China, do you? And, yeah, I know it is a stretch. And I will continue to say that Obama is a natural born citizen till I see concrete proof. But, it does get me wondering why it is so tough for Obama to pony up $10 and go “here. A real copy of my birth certificate.” I’ll give him $10. Instead, he and the Democrats are fighting off lawsuit after lawsuit, spending lots of money. Why? Granted, most of the suits are wackadoodle. But, it gets me wondering. Not much, but, a tiny tiny bit.

It also gets me wondering about journalistic curiosity. Most of them poo poo the idea, but, said almost nothing about the 9/11 Twoofer idiocy. Imagine it was McCain who was president, and people were going off with their “McCain was born in Panama, he can’t be considered natural born!!!” foolishness, which showed up not only on the DU and lefty sites, but, the New York Times in February 2008 (shortly after it appeared on the DU.) Then again in July, 2008.

One thing to consider, though, is that the Left can marginalize much of the Right by allowing them to continue going full bore on this issue. Yes, it would be nice to see the full document. But, do not overdo it, folks. There are bigger fights out there. On the flip side, I once asked Captain Ed, back when he was still doing it solo on Captains Quarters, why he argued with the Twoofers. He said that it is important to knock the conspiracies down. Might it also be important to investigate the claims of the birthers? Some. Not all, of course. Some are way too wacky. But, we knocked down the Twoofer stuff with facts. Why wouldn’t we do the same here?

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post

I note that elsewhere in his postings, Taranto pisses all over the idea that Obama is not qualified to be President by virtue of his having been born in Kenya — with his birth only registered in Hawaii, as Hawaiian law allowed. Taranto is not alone in his views. Many other conservatives say likewise. I think that the reason for avoiding the question is that discovery of Obama’s ineligibility would be enormously disruptive. It would invalidate his election and everything he has done since. The outcome could well be not dissimilar to what has just happened in Honduras and America needs peace at home more than it needs Joe Biden as President.

If we were judging Obama’s behaviour in the way court cases are judged, however, his constant battles to prevent production of his full birth certificate would be circumstantial evidence that he is guilty as charged. Reliapundit has some pertinent comments on the matter too. Also see my lead comment yesterday

Posted by John Ray. For a daily critique of Leftist activities, see DISSECTING LEFTISM. To keep up with attacks on free speech see TONGUE-TIED. Also, don’t forget your daily roundup of pro-environment but anti-Greenie news and commentary at GREENIE WATCH . Email me (John Ray) here

Share on Facebook

Tweet This Post