The Case Against McCain
Posted on January 12, 2008
I’m swiping the bullet points of this from Mark Levin: The only reason this thread is under my name is because I started it with the idea, asked Gribbit to help, and he went off. I don’t think I can add much to what he says below, so all credit on this post goes to Gribbit. All I can say is that McCain is basically a Democrat on every issue except foreign policy and the war. I’ll also add that he should have went through with his attempt to change parties.
It is no secret that John McCain has alienated true Conservatives in this country. As Mark Levin reminds us…
McCain-Feingold — the most brazen frontal assault on political speech since Buckley v. Valeo.
McCain-Kennedy — the most far-reaching amnesty program in American history.
McCain-Lieberman — the most onerous and intrusive attack on American industry — through reporting, regulating, and taxing Authority of greenhouse gases — in American history.
McCain-Kennedy-Edwards — the biggest boon to the trial bar since the tobacco settlement, under the rubric of a patients’ bill of rights.
McCain-Reimportantion of Drugs — a significant blow to pharmaceutical research and development, not to mention consumer safety (hey Rudy, pay attention, see link).
Rush Limbaugh talks about this one as well:
McCain-Feingold alone. This isn’t Republican, to limit free speech. This is the Incumbent Protection Act, and, of course, the amnesty program, McCain loves to say (McCain impression), “It’s not amnesty! You hear me, sailor? It’s not…amnesty!” But it’s amnesty. It was amnesty, and that’s why it went down to a scorching, blazing defeat. It’s not amnesty? McCain’s “stated opposition to Bush’s tax cuts in 2001-2003, largely based on…class warfare rhetoric.” He said (McCain impression), “We can’t do this, it’s tax cuts for the rich. I’m not going to do tax cuts for the rich!” “The public record is full of statements like these. Today he recalls only his insistence on accompanying spending cuts,” and they didn’t want any spending cuts in there so he wouldn’t support tax cuts. But people have forgotten, in 2001 McCain was still steaming over 2000 and the South Carolina primary after the contretemps regarding Bob Jones University, the religion and so forth. He had it in for Bush. In 2003, his anger hadn’t dwindled much. So he was opposing Bush’s tax cut, using class warfare rhetoric. “As chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science & Transportation…” I know people are asking, “Rush, why are you doing this?”
I’ll tell you why I’m doing it — because no Republican in the debate last night did it. Somebody has to do it! “As chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, McCain was consistently hostile to American enterprise, from media and pharmaceutical companies to technology and energy companies.” How many of us can forget the Gang of 14 debacle? Remember that, ladies and gentlemen? The Gang of 14 “prevented the Republican leadership in the Senate from mounting a rule change that would have ended the systematic use (actual and threatened) of the filibuster to prevent majority approval of judicial nominees.” You never had to have 60 votes to get a judicial nominee approved. The Democrats started filibustering, you needed 60 votes. We were going to pull the trigger on the nuclear option to get rid of this once and for all and McCain rides in with Senator Lindsey Grahamnesty and others, to form the Gang of 14 — which, by the way, has expired, ladies and gentlemen. The Gang of 14 deal has expired now.
All of these issues strike a nerve with Conservatives. McCain-Feingold for silencing political speech of the individual by limiting political contributions, while leaving the door wide open to 527 organizations such as MoveOn.org and labor union funded Political Action Committees (PACs). McCain-Kennedy for its amnesty provisions that reward criminal behavior, McCain-Lieberman for its punitive aspects in the name of radical environmentalism, and McCain-Kennedy-Edwards for rewarding trial lawyers such as John Edwards himself while penalizing doctors, hospitals, and tobacco companies without regard to the impact on the economy, the health care of regular Americans, and jobs.
McCain-Kennedy-Edwards profits plaintiffs and trial lawyers at the expense of jobs and more importantly higher medical bills. It seems rather ironic that John Edwards himself is out on the campaign trail decrying the plight of the poor and their lack of health insurance when it is he who is partially responsible for the rise in health care costs. So the next time you hear John Edwards speak about universal health care remember that the current problem is HIS fault along with McCain and Teddy “The Lush” Kennedy.
McCain’s advocacy for the re-importation of drugs puts seniors and other Americans at risk. It puts the safety of patients at risk from counterfeit drugs. The idea was to allow drugs exported to places like Canada to be re-imported because those drugs are sold in Canada at a much lower price. The problem is that regulation of the industry is gone and the patient never knows whether or not they are actually getting the drugs they need. They could be getting anything.
The second problem with the re-importation of drugs is that it subverts the ability of pharmaceutical companies to make the money required to carry out the research needed to develop the next round of drugs. Granted, drug prices are out of this world but, again, thank John Edwards and his buddies for their frivolous lawsuits. Thank him again along with Teddy “The Lush” Kennedy and John McCain for making it easier for trial lawyers to file these frivolous lawsuits.
The problem with our health care system friends starts in the courts. It is frivolous lawsuits that drive up costs. Hospitals, doctors, and other health care professionals have to carry costly malpractice insurance to protect themselves against these frivolous suits. We are an over litigated society and it drives up costs in all aspects of our society, but none so much as health care.
Mark Levin continues:
And McCain’s stated opposition to the Bush 2001 and 2003 tax cuts was largely based on socialist, class-warfare rhetoric — tax cuts for the rich, not for the middle class. The public record is full of these statements. Today, he recalls only his insistence on accompanying spending cuts.
McCain opposed the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts which have sustained this economy in spite of higher energy costs and a housing market which has crashed. Although we agree that the spending cuts that would have been a boon to this economy didn’t materialize and led to the ousting of a Republican majority in Congress, opposition to the stimulus that this nation needed shows that McCain sides with the class warfare mongering liberals of the Democrat Party instead of economic Conservatives of his own.
Levin also reminds us:
As chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, McCain was consistently hostile to American enterprise, from media and pharmaceutical companies to technology and energy companies.
Being hostile to the free market is not a Conservative principle. Bringing down those who create is contrary to the free-enterprise system which this nation was founded upon. The punishment of those who employ leads to unemployment and the expansion of the dependency class.
Levin also reminds us of McCain’s leadership in preventing a rules change which would have allowed President Bush to further impact the federal court system of this nation:
McCain also led the Gang of 14, which prevented the Republican leadership in the Senate from mounting a rule change that would have ended the systematic use (actual and threatened) of the filibuster to prevent majority approval of judicial nominees.
Remember the so-called nuclear option? Conservatives across this nation were waiting for that bomb to drop and we were thwarted by McCain and his “gang”. President Bush’s legacy will be defined by his court appointments and Democrats successfully rode out the Republican majority and thwarted Bush’s legacy thanks to McCain and his “gang of 14″.
What about McCain’s defense record? We know he supports the troops, but what about his whole record?
Levin touchs on that too:
His supporters point to essentially one policy strength, McCain’s early support for a surge and counterinsurgency. It has now evolved into McCain taking credit for forcing the president to adopt General David Petreaus’s strategy. Where’s the evidence to support such a claim?
Moreover, Iraq is an important battle in our war against the Islamo-fascist threat. But the war is a global war, and it most certainly includes the continental United States, which, after all, was struck on 9/11. How does McCain fare in that regard?
McCain-ACLU — the unprecedented granting of due-process rights to unlawful enemy combatants (terrorists).
McCain has repeatedly called for the immediate closing of Guantanamo Bay and the introduction of al-Qaeda terrorists into our own prisons — despite the legal rights they would immediately gain and the burdens of managing such a dangerous population.
While McCain proudly and repeatedly points to his battles with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who had to rebuild the U.S. military and fight a complex war, where was McCain in the lead-up to the war — when the military was being dangerously downsized by the Clinton administration and McCain’s friend, former Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen? Where was McCain when the CIA was in desperate need of attention? Also, McCain was apparently in the dark about al-Qaeda like most of Washington, despite a decade of warnings.
John McCain’s stance on defining torture is hurting this nation. He may be a hero of the Vietnam Conflict and he may be a staunch supporter of our men and women in uniform. He may also be the biggest supporter of completing our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, but he is a disaster in the Global War on Terrorism. Let me explain.
His insistence on defining all coerced interrogation methods as torture is a mis-characterization of what is actually happening. There are methods of coerced interrogation that do work. There are methods that cause no bodily harm where the individual being interrogated cannot help but submit to answering the questions being posed. But to John McCain, the ACLU, MoveOn.org, and that whole pack of socialists, it is torture.
McCain and others make the false claim that if we do these things that our enemies will do worse to our own troops. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Nations which are capable of actual torture will employ these methods regardless of what we do. Keep in mind that the United States does not go to war with nations that are friendly to us. We go to war with the world’s worst governments. So insisting that if we make a terrorist feel a little uncomfortable by splashing his blindfolded face with a little water is torture; and handcuffing our intelligence gathering agencies, puts our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and our very citizens in of all sorts of danger. Remember, we weren’t torturing anyone when 19 Jihadists infiltrated our nation, boarded 4 of our commercial airplanes, hijacked them, and flew them into our buildings killing nearly 3,000 of our citizens and guests.
To McCain’s allies on this front, the ACLU, MoveOn.org, and the socialists of this nation, not rewarding a detainee with his nightly ice cream is torture. Not permitting these horrible people the right to exploit our own freedoms with the goal of destroying us is torture. Torture is beatings, bamboo shavings under fingernails, cutting off of fingers, toes and other body parts, electric shock, and other methods that cause permanent bodily and mental harm. Not splashing a little water in the face of a very bad man or depriving him of a little sleep. Sorry, it doesn’t pass the stink test.
Let us also keep in mind that Daniel Pearl, a journalist not a soldier, was beheaded before these reports of torture started coming forth from Abu Graib prison and Guantanamo Bay. So John McCain is full of a substance that comes out of the waste port of a male cow.
As for his alliance with the ACLU on granting due-process rights to terrorists? The terrorists being held in Guantanamo and other places outside of the United States are by definition not entitled to the protections of citizenship. They are not in the United States, they never were in the United States, and if Conservatives have their way they will never come to the United States. Not US citizens and not on our soil then you are not entitled to the protections of our Constitution. Why is that such a difficult concept for Sen. McCain?
McCain teamed up with Clinton’s Secretary of Defense to systematically weaken the United States military forces and battled with Donald Rumsfeld who did everything he could to rebuild our nation’s fighting force in the face of the Global War on Terrorism. I applaud the Senator’s attempts at cutting spending but you cannot make those cuts in defense. The Defense of our nation is one of the few current federal government budget appropriations actually defined by the Constitution. Education, housing, health care and other entitlement programs as-well-as pork-barrel pet programs in a Senator’s or Congressman’s home district are not, Defense is.
Thanks to McCain and Cohan, our nation was weakened and put into a position to be attacked. Our intelligence agencies weren’t getting the support from Senator McCain and others that they needed. Nor were they getting the oversight required to insure smooth sharing of information necessary to keep our nation and its citizens safe. This is why we had nearly 3,000 of our citizens and guests killed in one single day.
Levin concludes his post with a wish that we here at Stop the ACLU share:
My fingers are crossed that at the next debate, either Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney will find a way to address McCain’s record. (Mike Huckabee won’t, as he is apparently in the tank for him.)
We’ve been open in our support for Fred Thompson for President. We here at Stop the ACLU applaud his recent performance at the South Carolina debate in Myrtle Beach. He successfully pointed out The Huckster’s shortcomings as a Conservative but feel that he gave McCain a free-pass. It is time for Fred to take out his buddy from the Senate because McCain’s Conservative credentials are a bit anemic.
It is our belief that there is only one true Conservative candidate in this race (Duncan Hunter excepted) and that candidate is Fred Dalton Thompson. John McCain is riding a wave of support from predominantly liberal districts and from what has been reported recently, liberal Democrats are turning out the vote in these districts in an effort to keep our Party in disarray.
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, ACLU, Border Control/Homeland Security, Elections, News, Supreme Court, War On Terror
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62 Responses to “The Case Against McCain”
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Great, great, great, job, guys.
McCain sucks….and nobody has covered what he did to the POW/MIA families when he was sitting on that Senate committee which ended up burying the issue for the families who are still awaiting word.
This man is shameful in every respect.
Here’s what we found out in NH;
Mitt lies about his resume
Mitt says he is a hunter, he isn’t.
Mitt said he didn’t lie, he did.
Mitt says he saw MLK, he didn’t.
He said he used the word “saw†figuratively, he didn’t.
Mitt said he had the endorsement of the NRA, he didn’t.
After exposed he said he kinda did, he didn’t.
There is a length limit so I will stop here.
Mitt distorts what the others say.
Mitt said the McCain plan would give Social Security benefits to illegals, it doesn’t.
Mitt says the McCain immigration position is horrid but before he was running for president said it was reasonable.
When running for governor Mitt supported Campaign finance reform. He even got John McCain to come out and endorse him (there is video). Not of course McCain is the devil for this.
He does the same and worse to Huck.
Mitt’s positions change based on the election.
When running in MA he supports abortion, gays more than Ted Kennedy, gun control, campaign finance control, what everyone now is calling amnesty for illegals and more. Otherwise he would never have been Governor of MA.
All this changed in 2005, half way through his only term as Governor when he started running for President. In 3 years he went from more liberal than Ted Kennedy to more conservative than Rush.
To top it off is the phoniness of Mitt caring about mergers. He made his fortune (like growing up in the house of an auto exec is the bottom) building a company called Bain. This is a company that makes money buying and selling other companies. They don’t actually build anything. The usually improve the balance sheet by firing everyone, selling the assets and dumping the company on some other sucker. (Pump and dump)
The fact is that the GOP “establishment†cooked up a toxic stew like they have in the past. The NH voters took a taste and spit it right back at them. Just next time the “true” conservatives, who ever they are, want to play Frankenstein sewing all the radical right parts together to make a monster in their image, don’t forget a soul. This one is truly not even aware when he lies and can’t imagine why people have a problem with that. Truly insight impaired.
The morning after Mitt went down in flames here, the morning AM talkshow (Howie Carr) said “A grateful nation breathes another sigh of relief”.
Arnold Schwarzenegger went so far as to call Limbaugh “irrelevant.â€
McCain’s lifetime voting record in Congress is rated a solid 82 percent by the American Conservative Union. He’s a fierce fiscal conservative, unwaveringly pro-life on abortion issues, staunchly free-market on trade and economic matters, favors making the Bush tax cuts permanent, supports nuclear power as a clean-energy alternative, champions school choice as the vital lever for education reform, advocates smaller and more accountable government, and, of course, is a lifelong proponent of a strong national defense and an assertive foreign policy.
The “real conservatives” should realize that McCain is their best chance at keeping the http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=67619 WH and they should buck up and support him.
McCain is a RINO! Fred Thompson is the only real conservative running.
I agee the Jay, Thompson is the only true conserative running. I would have a difficult time endorsing McCain. I do a lot in my community to endorse our conserative. I do not believe he has a chance of winning. I do like several others we Republicans need to stick together and settle and endorse one canidate and work together as a team.
No one of the current candidates has the unfavorable ratings that Mitt does. Consistantly on all polls McCain is the strongest to beat the dems.
I dont know many who like every one of his positions but across party lines he is the most respected.
The party will suffer huge if we push someone who has a credibility problem.
Peter, no one here is pushing for Romney. On Romney I will agree with you. However, I disagree that McCain is the strongest to beat the Dems. I know too many that would sit out just because of his pro-amnesty stances. Many can’t forgive him for McCain-Fiengold either.
I agree we need to get behind one nominee, if that ends up being McCain…too many will sit out.
I think, if he can raise more support, Fred Thompson is the best answer to this dilema.
If you have Mark Levin AND Rush Limbaugh against you, you have a lot wrong.
I don’t think Fred is viable.
I think both the immigration thing and campaign finance reform loss of reps will be more than compensated by control of the indys and many dems who will be drawn in because McCain counters their weaknesses.
Although the far right has an agenda it does little good is we are irrelevant.
Disclaimer -
I am biased because on immigration I think the only plan that the country supports will look like the McCain plan anyway. Also on Campain Finance Reform I think the free speack argument is silly. We have all the free speach we need. The volume of your voice should not be measured by the size of your wallet. There is no const right to be loud.
Why don’t you think Fred is viable? He is turning the tables on gaining support, and has a good chance in SC. He ruled in the last debate. We will see on this.
Thanks for disclosing your bias. Obviously our long list here wasn’t enough to convince you on McCain. Just know, we aren’t rooting for Romney either. He could win in Michagan and it will still mean nothing really.
The fact that the far right republican establishment is so bent out of shape about McCain is precisely why he should be the nominee.
Decide if we really want the White House or we just want to watch the dems with a dem congress run things.
The fact that the rep mouthpeices are pumping Mitt is going to cause huge damage.
To save the party, thats what we all need to work on, is rejecting that turd unite to look at the others.
I worked very hard for McCain in NH. I am very convinced he is best for the country and that got my vote. But, what got me out of the house in sub zero weather and holding a sign and on the phone was specifically to not have people connect our party to the likes of Willard (Mitt the flip) Romney.
I don’t understand your argument about the Dem Congress since McCain sides with them most of the time anyway.
He doesn’t alwas side with the Dems. He looks for honest solutions. He is a spending hawk. He will appoint good judges that will be there for years. (Imagine HC or BO appointments!)
Why would I support Fred but not McCain when Fred basically voted with McCain, co-chaired his 2000 campaign, and sponsored McCain-Feingold, not to mention voted against impeachment?
And McCain is a RINO and Fred isn’t?
“McCain teamed up with Clinton’s Secretary of Defense to systematically weaken the United States military forces and battled with Donald Rumsfeld who did everything he could to rebuild our nation’s fighting force in the face of the Global War on Terrorism.”
This has to be the most ridiculous rewriting of history ever. Rumsfeld was the architect of the quick strike force when we needed an occupation force. McCain has a son in Iraq and this idiot is arguing he’s trying to weaken defense? Talk about denial.
People are distorting McCain’s record all over.
McCain’s lifetime voting record in Congress is rated a solid 82 percent by the American Conservative Union. (You dont get that by voting Dem!)He’s a fierce fiscal conservative, unwaveringly pro-life on abortion issues, staunchly free-market on trade and economic matters, favors making the Bush tax cuts permanent, supports nuclear power as a clean-energy alternative, champions school choice as the vital lever for education reform, advocates smaller and more accountable government, and, of course, is a lifelong proponent of a strong national defense and an assertive foreign policy.
Peter, if I may be so bold as to say this in an honest and forthright manner without beating around the bush, so to speak, and saying it hoping that you don’t take it the wrong way, but you, sir, seem to be a bit off of your flippin rocker there bud.
To put it in terms that make me feel a bit better (but still respect the rules of our site) you’re a ***damned f***in idiot and you should immediately go inject a gallon of clorox into your cranial cavity.
McCain supported AMNESTY, and regardless of your wishful thinking that any “immigration reform is going to look like mccains, the reality is that EIGHTY PERCENT of the country says SECURE THE BLEEPING BORDER FIRST!!!!!!!
So, peter, are you an apologist for a free speech hating open borders amnesty whore or are you off your meds?
See there you again (said with RR inflection)…
McCain’s plan is to SECURE THE BLEEPING BORDER FIRST!!!!!!!
The initial bill that Mitt said was “reasonable” (Boston Globe 11/05) did not have this but its the first thing you see on the plan now.
My meds are fine but I dont let Rush and the others think for me. I fought and bled for free speech that many misuse and know the difference between that and giving money to a pol. The later is simply a factor of how loud you are not your right to speak.
peter, doesn’t mccain/feingold have some provision about ads that cant be played within a certain time frame before elections? It stifles free speech by grassroots groups, and McCains NAME is right in the damned title…..McCain OPPOSES free speech.
By your comment about having fought and bled for free speech leads me to believe you are a veteran (thank you for your service) and now I see part of the draw for you supporting mccain……but mccain is for amnesty, no matter what he panderingly (is that a word?) claims about securing the border….he says that because the POLLS showed him what the majority of people want to hear.
I like the write up on John McStain. He’s no more a dirtbag than the rest of them. Plus there is some questions about is “p.o.w status”. But thoughts rumors have been running around for a decade now.
Jay, you know I love the site, at the sametime it’s also becoming a defacto Thompson site. Come on man, get back to ripping the slime balls at the ACLU.
And yes, I am still a Ron Paul supporter. The one REAL Conservative in the race.
“questions about is “p.o.w status”"
That is just plain evil and insulting spread by cowards. Real men were hund up by their arms. McCain didn’t take early release because he is a hero and knew what it would to to the rest of us.
Securing the boarder is not pandering. It’s solving another part of the problem. You still have to do something with the 12M here. NO ONE will ship them out. I agree that his initial attempt at this an campaing finance reform have loopholes but it was a start at a solution. He is brave to try. Both can be fixed until it’s a better solution.
So you think social security or any other huge issue will magically get solved without tweaking?
Ron Paul supporters really do need a revalouting. Then they need to crown him king. Because that is the only way he could deliver anything he is talking about.
He is an annoyance, worse Ross Perot. And he gave us Clinton. If he (Paul)was honest he would just run as a 3rd party like he has done in the past.
peter, mccain feingold takes free speech away from those who need it most…grassroots groups.
And the immigration dealw orks like this;
A) Secure the border
B) Enforce workplace rules
C) Reinterpret the 14th amendment and stop the anchor baby clause (legally can’t make it retroactive I think, which is too bad)
D) Outlaw giving benefits to illegal parents of anchor babies born here before the new and correct reinterpretation of the 14th amendment, opting instead for sending the illegals home with their children and explaining to them that their child can return on their 18th birthday and opt for American citizenship and THEN they can apply to bring in family members and if they are caught here illegally in the meantime will earn them a banning for life.
E) Make it a criminal act to be here illegally the first time people are caught here, and being found here illegally gives you a five year period of being ineligible for consideration for citizenship. Being found here after having been deported ONCE is a ten year ban. Third offense is lifetime.
F) Make all crimes committed involving violence, children or felonies to be automatic expulsion and ten years ineligibility .
G) English is REQUIRED!!!!
H) Immigrants are not eligible for public benefits for at least ten years.
Onto social security; Privatize it. It would be a sliding scale…for a greqat primer on that plan google to rise up economics.
Thanks again for your service but you are betting on the wrong dog, dawg, knowutImeen jeelybean?
The problem I have with McCain is the fact that he considers Amtrak to be pork-barrel spending. It is not pork-barrel spending to give riders the comfort of long-distance rail if they need to travel on land. The motorcoach is inferior for very long-distance travel to both the train and the airplane from a livability point of view (less legroom, not very much luggage room, very cramped when trying to eat, and so on and so forth). Not everyone can drive or wants to drive, and not everyone can afford a car. (Cars, moreover, are more expensive per capita than transit is, Amtrak included.) So the train offers the best potential return for one’s money. Furthermore, Amtrak is a means of traveling all over the country, and it is a lifeline in the medium-to-long distance market as well as the short-distance market for numerous people. Meanwhile, there are Federal subsidies to air travel to one-horse towns and phony one-horse towns - not as much of a lifeline, with huge, empty airplanes costing taxpayers millions of dollars. That, folks, is true pork-barrel spending. Not Amtrak. When will McCain get the message?
ricky, for all that needs to be said about the ugly money pit that should be called SCAMtrak, click this link
I thought that you would be interested in knowing that BabiesForObama.com has just announced that it will be donating a portion of its profits to the Obama for America Campaign:
http://www.BabiesForObama.com/
Thanks!
- Babies for Obama
Hey Pete first and foremost, I’m not annyoying. Secondly, I’ve been a long time supporter of Dr. Paul’s, since I saw him give a speech on C-SPAN, when Clinton was bombing Serbia.
Still trying to understand where the whole “real man” comment came from. All I was saying was there is questions about his service. As there has been for years.
And for Amtrak..good lord what a “train wreck” that corporate welfare company is. Just as bad if not worse than the Farm welfare crap.
Why would we be interested in knowing that Babies for Obama crap?
McCain was no hero in Vietnam. Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
Time for a Little Straight Talk
Why has McCain been Communist Vietnam’s
best friend in the US Congress?
Cao - Because McCain knows the lesson of Lincoln. After a war you make peace.
RRon - What proof do you need? Do you think he broke his own arms and can raise them so it would look good? I left half a foot in a different country. You have no idea how offensive even the thought of doughting McCain’s service record is to me an anyone else who served this country. I stood next to the Paul people at the St. Anslem rally lot. They are annoying and Paul is annoying. He belongs in a party by himself.
You guys covered Amtrak - the idea of an actual rail system is great. Enough said.
Kender - plans are not far from what you said.
Steve - McCain and Fred are very close with a style difference. They are actually very good friends and you can count on him endorsing McCain when he throws in the towel.
Cheers
peter, if mccain gets the nod I may have to switch parties and vote dem…..at least then I would be honestly voting for an open borders moron, instead of voting for someone who is only pretending to want to close the border.
Same thing if rudy gets the nod….only difference is if rudy gets the nod I may have to vote D under the theory that if I am gonna vote for a socialist I should vote for the biggest socialist on the ballot.
If,. by some amazing turn of events mccain gets to the white house, mark my words he will NOT secure the border…make book on it peter….mccain is an illegal alien sympathizing liar
The honest debate is about having immigration at all.
Free market people think easy immigration is better than tight control (high security is a different issue).
From what I see this is why there is a perception the McCain is soft on the illegals. Because the idea of low barriers (not meaning security) fits free market thinkers.
peter, the issue is not immigration, it is ILLEGAL immigration and letting the law breakers that snuck in stay here and simply pay a fine while there are literally millions trying to do it legally.
That is AMNESTY (seriously, what part of that can you not grasp?)
You need to go watch this video . We cannot save the world, and we should only be going for the best and brightest and most ambitious we can get our hands on. Immigration, in a way, is like genetics, and if we swamp the country with lazy, law breaking ignorant people guess what we’re gonna end up like?
France.
Another part of the problem is the multiculturalism that keeps these newcomers from assimilating and learning to BE Americans instead of a foreign national that lives in America or holds American citizenship.
Pnteresting you say its not about immigration, then send me to a video on, you guessed it, immigration.
“We cannot save the world, and we should only be going for the best and brightest and most ambitious we can get our hands on. Immigration, in a way, is like genetics, and if we swamp the country with lazy, law breaking ignorant people guess what we’re gonna end up like?”
That statement has nothing to do with the legality of immigration.
Your characterization of immigrants is bigoted and offensive. I am only the second generation born in the US. We cam from Sicily. I am certain although I cant prove it that money was paid or favors done to get ahead in the line. I dont think I should be deported. My family has spilled enough blood to feel we are American. I spesk english and God forbid other languages. I do not feel threatened that immigration is ruining the country or we should lock the doors now that we are here. I love this country. We are the hope of the world.
There are many crimes for witch the punishment is a fine. When the fine is imposed we don’t all the amnesty. If you speed do you lose your license? Oh but I forgot, “real” conservatives don’t speed.
Immigration has made this country strong and will always do that.
peter, the problem we have with mccain is he is soft on ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION……letting those folks that have come here illegally simply pay a fine to get their green cards, while leaving those that tried to do it legally to wait even longer until a new spot opens up is unfair to those playing by the rules.
We import, legally, over one million people a year, which is BTW, more than the rest of the world takes into their countries legally COMBINED. We cannot sustain that level of growth, and since we need to cut the numbers of LEGAL immigrants (mccains bill drastically INCREASED the number of legal immigrants–are you starting to see the problem here, peter?) we should be looking for the best and brightest immigrants….we have more than enough home grown low wage labor available (IF anyone would have the balls to utilize them–convicts, welfare recipients-college kids working off loans) to last us two generations.
And good for you being a 2nd gen American….awesome, outstanding and kudos, and I am sure your family works hard and are firmly AMERICANS first, but I have worked with way too many illegals to think they are coming here for a better life. They are coming here for a better life in their home country. I actually had an illegal tell me he didn’t need to learn english well, as he was only going to work here until he counld retire in mexico a rich man….at the age of forty, and he was working for about minimum wage.
The majority of illegals coming up from south of the border, especially mexico, simply wanbt our money to send home, our health care when they are ill and our education for their children…..they have little to no interest in staying here and BEING an AMERICAN.
ANd I am glad you are offended…..you have no right to not be offended, no matter what your liberal sensibilities may tell you, and if you are offended then I have hit a raw nerve in your psyche and you really need to figure out why the truth offended you.
at the end of the day our troops need the most effective commander-in-chief. Someone with as much proven ability to getting the public and the Congress behind them as they finish the job in Iraq.
The troops and our country need a commander-in-chief who sends a message to the Islamo-fascists watching the election that our taking it to them doesn’t just end with Bush.
The only guy with the proven ability, he called for a policy change, he got the Surge policy through a public against it, a democratic congress just elected on a get out of war platform and even a bi-partisan commission report that called for getting out now.
MCCain had the credibility to bring in the Nelsons and Lieberman’s and to give cover to Coleman and even the hardcore Repubs who were running a bit weak at the knees. And guess what the Surge turned out to be the right policy. And that has finally made us all look a little good.
I don’t care what your domestic issue is immigration, global warming or taxes. If you feel so strongly get your congressmen or use the airwaves and the interet to get heard on these issues.
Bush favored amnesty. Conservative dems and repubs and independents were able to beat that back. So we should take resposnibilty for these issues at the grass roots, while the troops cover our backs in Afghan and Iraq.
But in this election, this initial term our troops deserve the best Commander in Chief…The only nominee with proven ability to handle navigating Iraq and Afghanistan is McCain.
Last leaving our troops to a democratic nominee would be criminal. We owe it
to them to elect the Republican most likely to get elected. Mitt, Rudy, Huck Romney and Fred just can’t cut it.
If you care about the troops it has to be McCain.
Our troops deserve the best.
JAZ, regardless of what the dem candidates say, nobody is just going to up and pull out our troops in a hurry. The reality is that if they do it before iraq is stable, Al-Q declares victory over the great satan and our problem gets worse, which means even if hilly is the prez getting us beaten in a war is going to destroy the party of the person responsible.
We cannot, as a party, accept a person as our candidate who endorsed amnesty and hold any semblance of pride in our beliefs or sanity in our message.
You populist moderates need to go find your own party (may I suggest libertarian?) and leave the conservatism up to the people who know what it means and are willing to actually stand on principles like a conservative instead of flip-flopping like a fish on the floor.
I agree JAZ. The war (our people who serve) is more important. I dont see how the immigration issue will be solved in a way by anyone that that satisfys everyone.
I am a republican and dont need another party. My feeling is that the party is being torn apart by the minority holding the megaphone that hold positions that make any solution impossible.
I just dont see how immigration can be more important than a war.
A factoid just for kicks…
George Wilcken Romney (July 8, 1907 – July 26, 1995) was a Mexican-born American businessman and a politician.
Mitt Romney’s grandparents were Federal Fugitives. They were illegal residents of Mexico, and polygamists. George Romney had US Citizenship, because he was born in a foreign country, to American born parents who had not renounced their citizenship, even thought the fled America to avoid prosecution.
I don’t care who you are. That there’s funny…
no i hope the dems are not going to just up and pull our troops out of Iraq…maybe …do you trust them to do it so that our men and women are victorious?
the last time i checked, if it hadn’t been for MCCAin with the backbone, we would have withdrawn this past December with our tails between our [edited]. and no chance in hell at the presidency..
your “conservatism for those who know what it means” is a pretty lonely minority. i know i’m from NY…
i’m not saying you should sacrifice your principles, i’m just saying take the long-term view.
if mccain can garner the support to end this war with our troops and republicans on top, alot of people will be more likely to listen to yoru conservative principles.
second conservative principles don’t mean much when you have a party in power that permits the bombing of the WTC, 2 embassies, khobar towers, the planning of 9/11 and the Cole.
last why should i put the lives our GI’s on the line so that you can prove that Hilly got us beat in Iraq.
and about your argument that the party can’t endorse someone who endorsed amnesty, as I understand it Bush endorsed amnesty in 2000 and 2004. I recall the party stood head and shoulders next to him. This is especially true in 2004 when we were at war.
So why are the troops getting the short end of the stick in 2008?
You are not practicing conservatism. No true conservative would expose our troops on the battlefield to second rate.
Amen
Thanks for the support Peter. But i like Mitt. I just do not think this is his election. We need to get our troops through this war. Everything will fall into place after that. I hope.
Kender my comment above was to you.
What does an illegal immigrant look like? Most of my friends are Latino, will they be stopped and asked to prove their citizenship until we get rid of all the illegals? The only way to achieve a complete removal of illegals is to force everyone to carry an ID that cannot be forged. So much for civil liberties.
McCain has a sensible plan “now.” He learned from the debate last summer that securing the border must be the first priority. He would also immediately deport all criminal aliens that are clogging our jails (about 2 million). As for the rest, we need a sensible leader that understands its is ridculous to think we can find, secure and deport 12 million people. What rational National Interest is served by deporting them? Will it improve our relationship with Mexico (a major trade partner)? Will it improve our standing in any Latin American Nation? There are so many consequences to this kind of decision that cannot easily be predicted.
McCain has a rational approach to solving problems. He listens to all sides and works hard to build consensus. He is a realist not an idealist and understands how to get things done. That is why he has such a long record of achievement for you to attack.
While he probably doesn’t meet your expectation of ideological purity, he most certainly meets my expectations for a great leader.
Amen, amen …
The more I look at this thread, and the voices like Novack I see that the battle is internal. There are many rank in file Reps who just don’t buy the “establishmet”. The would rather the government to work than is not work in hope to prove an ideal. The “establishment” (Mitt) candidate is even saying Washington is broken. How that’s an honest message is beyond me. McCain has always been the outsider. If he wins it will be precisly because the “establishment” rejects him. That is very appealing to people who just want the government to work.
John McCain is the only candidate in this year’s presidential contest who possesses the character and qualities that were once (some would say not too long ago) regarded to make a man fit for the office. No one in this race shares his level of experience, his courage, or his sense of honor. In our day, there is no one more qualified or more trustworthy to carry out the duties of President of the United States.
McCain fights endlessly for the interests of our troops and is the only man that can be trusted not bow to the political trade wind of the day when it comes to winning the long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or any other war we may find ourselves in. On these fronts, he has been proven to be consistently right. He is armed not only with foreign and defense policy knowledge and experience, but also the right instinct, a quality that, as some of you know, is nearly impossible to develop based on advice and experience alone. He has been peerless in his fight against earmarks and pork-barrel spending, and he has lived by his word: by any definition, during his 24-year Senate career McCain has requested fewer earmarks than any other currently sitting Senator that has served at least one full term. McCain is pro-life (and always has been) and has consistently fought to seat conservative judicial nominees on the Supreme Court – from Robert Bork to Sam Alito.
Following his victory in New Hampshire, McCain read perhaps the best line I’ve heard all year: “We are the makers of history, not its victims.†For those of us who cherish the most precious aspects of life and liberty, those words need no further explanation. Very simply, there is no greater patriot in this year’s presidential contest and no man with as keen a perspective on our current social condition.
Watching from the middle, it’s sad to me that the right wants to crush its own best chance at an electable candidate.
Though I lean slightly to the left, this is mainly because of my fear of the religious right and the neocons dangerous belligerence. Despite the debacle of the last seven years, I would still consider casting my vote for McCain, because of his experience and honesty, which, I suppose, is just what most right wing zealots have a problem with.
If anyone but McCain wins the republican nomination, I can turn off my television and absent myself from the media coverage until November, because I know I’ll be voting Democrat.
American - well said.
The speech was a masterpeice of values and everything good in this country and this man. No one in the room I felt that this was not an ordinary man.
I read after this he was panned for not using a telepromter to appear more genuine.
The of that speech text is astounding. I was so proud to stand with him in that room, do my part to deliver him up to the rest of the country. My son was with me. He was moved, and I thank Mr. McCain for that. Giving youth hope by inspiring to serve a cause greater than their own self interest.
I will NEVER vote for McCain. Wouldn’t matter if he was running against Mr. Putin himself.
See now that sorta proves my point. You would rather place your agenda above the country. That kind of vitriolic crap is what is making the country (and soon your party) reject the conservative “elite”. Frankly, that would be best for the republicans and the country to just jettison this crowd that has caused so much trouble at all of our expense.
Where are all these “elite”s when Bush was pushing amnesty? Why is he not bashed in the same breath? It’s all so shallow. You are all running scared beause someone substantial may get elected and actually solve something without just making it a win for your agenda.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12568
There’s someone to fear for you.
Immigration is a deadly important battle, and mccain only changed his stance when he realized that the vast majority of citizens demanded that the government do it’s job, secure the border first and work on the other aspects of the problem next.
McCain is not a conservative that I want in office. HE will not secure the border, and if we dont get a handle on the illegal immigration problem we will be a third world country in 30 years because we wont have enough money to support the programs that are already in place.
McCain is the best choice for the GOP and for the country. He’ll tell the truth, he’ll unify the nation, he’ll protect the country.
John McCain is the only candidate in this year’s presidential contest who possesses the character and qualities that were once (some would say not too long ago) regarded to make a man fit for the office.
Your standards for measuring ‘character’ clearly differ from mine. McCain’s character was revealed in how he treated his first wife after her car accident and his involvement with the “Keating 5″ debacle, to name two.
That alone undercuts the rest of your post, save McCain’s position on ‘earmarks’…which is right on. But even in that - you had to eliminate Sen. Coburn in an attempt to restore the “crown” to McCain. Pretty sad.
Makes it understandable why you support McCain.
McCain has been married to Cindy for 28 years. He knows and has talked about what he did wrong with his first wife. He had been married 8 years when he returned. Many many returning from war have a hard time adjusting and relationships break. He has said he was almost 40 trying to be 25. His first wife and him are on good terms and she has no hard feelings.
He has a great family
I will write off your personal insult to your appent need to compensate for shortcommings in your own life.
Even though he was exhonerated from the Keating 5 issue that changed him profoundly. He has admited that he was wrong and has since made it back a hundred fols by routing out corruption and saving $$ as in the recent tanker scam.
As fo the personal attack on me, I have proven myself and walk the walk for my country.
quiet american, while not as divisive as rudy, mccain is divisive enough that many conservatives won’t vote for him, many of them are in this forum here.
Only one man has the true conservative credentials and has the electability, and it aint mccain….it’s thompson.
Well, Fred is fine and he will endorse McCain when he quits.
The lose of a few votes will be made up. Thats what the polls overwealminglt show. The fact that you wont vote for him actually is THE thing that makes him electible.
peter, mccain, just like rudy and huck, will get us beat in november…..if either one of those three wins the nomination the dems will be sitting in the white house come 09……and supreme court judges will retire and the left will be able to appoint activist judges and we’re even more screwed after that.
Mark my words lad, when it is looked back on and historians dissect the end of the GOP and conservatism, they will place the blame squarely on the heads of the moderates and populists that didn’t understand that standing on principle and backing a true conservative were the keys to staying in power.
No republican ever was elected by acting like a democrat, and never will be…..if you want to run a candidate that is acceptable to the left you will lose, because if people want to vote for that person the already have the democrats to9 vote for…..
bookmark this page….print out this thread….tack it above your computer….and if one of those three get the nod we lose in november….just please come back so I can give you a big fat bowl of I Told Ya So Soup with a side of dipstick, ok?
All printed off
From what I see it’s quite the opposite. If McCain is not nominated then your outcome happens.
The CU rates him 82 so he can’t be close to a Dem. Jack Kemp endorses him. Over 100 Admirals and Generals endorse him. Fred, Huck, and Rudy endorse him.
By your standards Regan would be acting like a Dem because he actually did amnesty? How about Teddy Rosevelt with anti-trust? JFK never acted like a modern Dem (except for the sex), Great leaders do not follow an orthadoxy. It drives people mad but thats what makes them great.
I dont think he will be ok, I think McCain will be a great president when our country needs on the most. What we should really be doing is getting a follow-up to draft behind him and sew up th WH for 16 yrs. Now we are talking change.
And lets talk about it in Nov.
Personal attacks? What I posted is fact and truth about McCain.
You consider the truth about someone a personal attack?
Making excuses for him is not a refutation.
Were he elected…in 2012, you’ll just be making more excuses for him.
If McCain or Huckabee, the 2 most liberal candidates win the nomination, I will write Fred Thompson in. I would rather vote for Hillary Clinton (who I despise) than McCain or Huckabee and in that order. Besides, McCain said in a speech that he knows he’s up there in age, and would only be running for one term anyway. Why bother John Amnesty McCain.
I keep reading little ‘bots repeating the mantra that McCain has a CU rating of 82. Sorry to bring you up to date, BUT, you really need to look at his last couple of years. He has been batting in the 60’s.
I would also like to point out that the score isn’t WEIGHTED. A vote on a minor conservative issue has the same weight as his vote for AMNESTY would have had IF IT HAD COME UP FOR A VOTE!!!!
The other point is the effort he has put into selling out conservatives on that small percentage of votes that they hit him on. It is one thing to vote Dhimmi and quite another to organise and FIGHT for them!!
For everyone who thinks he is sooooo strong on defense, I would remind you that he fought the administration just as loudly and divisively as the Dhims. He may sound like a hawk, but, by attacking the sitting Commander in Chief and his Secretary of Defense he carried just as much water for the Jihadis as the Dhims did. As a so-called war hero, long term senator, and influential Washingtonian (with a couple of ADMIRALS in the family), he had plenty of venues to work for a change in policy, BUT, this MORON chose to do it on the floor of the Senate, in the Newspapers, and on the TV sets of the WORLD making us look like a bunch of school kids arguing over a dodge ball game!!!!
Another little issue this MORON has with the military is that, even with his experience as a POW, he and John Kerry SHUT DOWN THE SEARCH AND ACCOUNTABILITY PROCESS WITH VIETNAM for our POW-MIA’s!!!! This wasn’t a bad enough betrayal, he had to demonize the families and accuse them of having all kinds of hidden agendas. He personally berated more than one crying mother asking him why we were quitting!!!
He is on the Man Made Global Climate Change Agenda with the OTHER MORON AL BORE!!!!! The same issue I have with Newt Gingrich.
What is the point of claiming to be Conservative if you are continuously selling out your ideals at the altar of inclusiveness or bipartisanship. Is foetal stem cell research any better if we all sign off on it???
As far as whether he treated his first wife shabbily, he was cheating on her. This is unacceptable to me by ANYONE!!!
He is also being dishonest about his record during the Reagan administration. If anyone cares to check, the reason the deficit went up wasn’t due to the tax cuts as they increased revenue just like when Kennedy and Bush cut them. The problem is the same as now. Pork, waste, increased Social Spending, and spending the Soviets into bankruptcy with Star Wars!!!
McCain HAS fought to stop waste in isolated, limited situations. He, like most other Representatives and Senators, in the end, Vote Yes on most spending bills with all that PORK and INCREASED SPENDING in them. If he was MAN enough to vote against every bill that has excess spending or ANY pork, I would believe the liar just a little!!!!
Everyone needs to get a copy of the clip where McCain tells the reporters that if we want the border closed he will close it. The venom and CONTEMPT in his voice for WE THE PEOPLE when he said that is a continuing warning about how he really feels about us unwashed masses!!!
He still didn’t sign on to making sure the immigration laws are enforced until they are changed!!!
All in all, I would vote for the Constitutional party candidate before I would vote McCain!!!
Here’s the link to the McCain quote:
http://www.gorighty.com/401/index.html?cc=0.3654821510976358&i=9455204