Boyscouts Under Attack Again
Posted on November 8, 2005
I just got this in my email:
Dear John,
Today, the ACLJ has again represented you and your interests by filing our major brief with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.
Here’s the crux of the situation:
With the help of the ACLU, Mr. Eugene Winkler and other taxpayers brought a lawsuit against the military for their support of the National Scout Jamboree, held every four years.
(It is important to note that the military has provided service and support for this national event since 1937. Furthermore, Congress passed the Jamboree statute in 1972 to formally recognize the military’s role in the Jamboree.)
The plaintiffs argued that the Jamboree statute - and others - were laws ”respecting an establishment of religion” in violation of the First Amendment …
… since the Boy Scouts’ oath contains an affirmation to God.
The District Court agreed.
As this case makes its way to the appeals court, the ACLJ is ready to continue fighting for religious freedom in America!
Bearing the signatures of 88 members of the House and Senate, our brief contends that - among other things - the Jamboree statute was written by Congress to help the military pursue its own recruiting and public relations interests through involvement with private organizations …
… not to promote the Boy Scouts of America’s religious beliefs.
This is just another blatant attempt by the ACLU and others to destroy the Boy Scouts of America - because it is part of the scouts’ oath to affirm their belief in God.
The Boy Scouts Jamboree is a time-honored national tradition … we cannot allow it to be destroyed to advance the liberal cause of the ACLU and others!
The ACLJ will continue to fight this unconstitutional ruling and will keep you updated on our progress in the days to come.
Thank God for the ACLJ. May they spank the ACLU out of business.
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26 Responses to “Boyscouts Under Attack Again”
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If the Boy Scouts are a “private organization” which excludes people based on their religious views, why should the US military help finance their Jamboree by spending millions in tax money to support it? Shouldn’t private organizations pay for their own get-togethers? Why are supposedly “conservative” groups calling for federal welfare for the Boy Scouts?
Interesting that you link your name with a website that advocates inclusion of gay youth in scouting. Interesting that you also use liberal talking points to argue your stance. Here’s the truth. No one is requiring anybody join the scouts. It’s not like the Hitler Youth. The United States Military has been sponsoring the Boy Scout Jamboree since the early 70s. It is a learning experience not only for the scouts, but the soldiers who take part as well. So it is my opinion, the spending is justified because it teaches soldiers how to teach others.
When our guys go on a humanitarian relief mission, often times they are put into a position of teaching the people that they are helping. This type of instruction must be learned. And the sponsorship of the scouts is that learning experience.
By your reasoning then groups like the NAACP should either have to allow white racists into its organization or not be allowed on public campuses.
“On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.”
It’s the Boy Scout Oath to which the ACLU responded by filing legal claims against the U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Chicago Board of Education in 1999.
No one is coerced on military bases into supporting the Boy Scouts, though, no doubt, members of our armed forces hold the Scouts in much higher esteem than they do the ACLU.
Congress awarded a national charter (an honorary statement that Congress supports the patriotic, educational or scientific goals of an organization and that the organization is guaranteed rights to its name in perpetuity) – to the Boy Scouts of America in 1916. Congress did this in full recognition of the Scouts’ right to discriminate.
It’s not as though membership in the Boy Scouts is restricted to only one faith; The Boy Scouts are as ecumenical as organizations come. Among 29 religious groups that award patches to Scouts through the Religious Relationships Committee are Armenians, Baha’i, Baptist, Buddhist, Christian Science, Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopal, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Lutheran, Maher Baba, Moravian, Mormon, Presbyterian, Quaker, Roman Catholic, United Methodist and Zoroastrian.
But the Boy Scouts do insist in belief in God. Over the years since the Boy Scouts was founded, several hundred atheists have been told that they could not serve in positions of Scout leadership. Is this inconsistent with the principles by which our nation’s military and government operate?
I should say it is.
Should we allow a minority of atheists (who take up less than 1% of the population) to dictate to the rest of us that we don’t deserve the freedoms we’ve enjoyed for the last 150 years?
It doesn’t make sense. Not at all.
It’s also worth noting that our nation’s military itself administers an Oath of Military Service to new members of the armed forces, that, like the Presidential, Congressional, and Supreme Court Oaths of Office, concludes with the words, “So help me God.” In fact, all high-ranking government officers must swear an oath in accordance with Section 3331 of Title V of the U.S. Code that includes that little invocation to the Almighty.
The Department of Defense cannot expect to win wars abroad if it is capitulating to the demands of political correctness at home. Our armed forces must be aligned with the standards of character that make America worth fighting for.
Actually the feds aren’t being FORCED to pay for the jamborees. They do it willingly.
They do it because they Boy Scouts promote the type of citizen that makes a stronger America….citizens that are self reliant and have a moral and ethical base consistent with the ideals that made this country great.
The Boy Scouts instill the values that the majority of this country still believe in and defend.
Go twist your lies somewhere else Brian
Gribbit writes:
“Here’s the truth. No one is requiring anybody join the scouts.”
But I’m being required to pay for their private Jamboree, via my taxes. And it has a religious requirement for attending, since atheists can’t join. Interesting you would use plain old Socialism to justify using tax money for a supposedly “private” group.
Jay writes:
“By your reasoning then groups like the NAACP should either have to allow white racists into its organization or not be allowed on public campuses.”
Not at all; the ACLU lawsuit is about using tax money to help pay for the Jamboree. The BSA can still USE public facilities on the same basis as anyone else; they just have to PAY FOR IT, same as anyone else, without picking my pocket.
cao writes:
“In fact, all high-ranking government officers must swear an oath in accordance with Section 3331 of Title V of the U.S. Code that includes that little invocation to the Almighty.”
Wrong - NOBODY is ever required to swear an oath; affirming without ’so help me god’ is always valid. AR 601-280 “The Army Retention Program,” Appendix D Paragraph 2k, states specifically that the reenlisting soldier need not swear to god. USC 512 Title 28 (Revision June 25, 1948 ch. 646, 62 Stat. 925) clarifies that an oath of affirmation excludes the ’so help me god’ portion.
You can also find a lot of atheists in the military at http://www.maaf.info, plus there will be an ‘atheists in foxholes’ march in Washington DC on Friday (Veteran’s Day).
Kender writes:
“Actually the feds aren’t being FORCED to pay for the jamborees. They do it willingly.”
But they can’t, legally. The feds might want to pay for a private celebration just for Christians, but that wouldn’t be legal, either.
And if the Scouts are teaching kids to be self-reliant, why are they leeching off the government?
For American Civil Liberties Union lawyers and homosexual rights activists, the scouts have become a surrogate target representing
“old-time religion”. Adversaries of scout ideals, by kicking the scouts around, deliver a swift kick to the backside of anyone brazen enough to support the scouts in public embrace of “God and my country.”
Whatever status God and country formerly enjoyed in American society, God has become, to the left, an unwelcome intruder in public affairs. The left isn’t really big on God Bless America patriotism either.
The ACLU busies itself in filing and prosecuting suits against all evidences of governmental backing for the scouts’ “exclusivist” religious ideals — i.e., no atheists.
With religiousness goes commitment to religious norms. Here again the scouts fall short — ideologically speaking. The scouts have fought for, and won in court, the right to exclude professed homosexuals from membership and leadership. Naturally, homosexual rights agitators have leaned hard on public schools and charitable organizations, especially United Way, to stop supporting the scouts.
Sometimes it works, sometimes not. The real payoff is the chance to fill the air with denunciations of scout “homophobia” and thus injure the organization’s community standing. It’s a tactic trial lawyers understand well: When you can’t win with the facts, start slinging the mud.
The mud-slingers like you, my dear, are frequent on your side of the aisle.
Who would have believed years ago this kind of nuttiness could take root here: commitment to God and country and moral fiber assailed in federal court as un-American and subversive of democracy?
It’s absolutely in sane.
Go crawl under your anti-God, anti-military, anti-war rock and leave the rest of us alone.
You are infringing on every American’s right to chose and that’s not “democracy”–that’s FASCISM.
cao writes:
“When you can’t win with the facts, start slinging the mud.”
Your last rant seems to be pretty argument-free.
Here are some facts for you:
The Boy Scouts is a private organization.
The Boy Scouts have religious requirements for membership.
There are serious constitutional problems with using tax money to pay for a private gathering of members of a private organization that excludes people based on religion.
And you accuse ME of being against the military? You’re the one who falsely claimed that ALL members of the US military have to swear a religious oath (which would violate their civil rights, if it was true). I pointed out to you that swearing an oath is NOT required, and that atheists do exist in the military. You, apparently, don’t think atheists in the US military have rights. Why do you hate our US soldiers?
cao writes:
“When you canâ??t win with the facts, start slinging the mud.”
Your last rant seems to be pretty argument-free.
Here are some facts for you:
The Boy Scouts is a private organization.
The Boy Scouts have religious requirements for membership.
There are serious constitutional problems with using tax money to pay for a private gathering of members of a private organization that excludes people based on religion.
And you accuse ME of being against the military? You’re the one who falsely claimed that ALL members of the US military have to swear a religious oath (which would violate their civil rights, if it was true). I pointed out to you that swearing an oath is NOT required, and that atheists do exist in the military. You, apparently, don’t think atheists in the US military have rights. Why do you hate our US soldiers?
Oh brian, don’t even start on that “I’m being forced to pay with MY taxes crap……part of MY taxes help support the ACLU, and I am not whining about it, I am FIGHTING againts it.
The major difference between the aclu and the boy scouts is one of them is a subversive organization that pushes a religion down the countries throat while trying to destory the foundation of this country and the other is the boy scouts.
The ACLU lawsuit claims to be about using tax money for the jamboree, but it is really to get more tax money for themselves. Supporting the Boy Scouts is NOT an making a “law respecting an establishment of religion”, no matter how you morons on the left wish to twist the words.
cao writes:
“When you can’t win with the facts, start slinging the mud.”
Given that you incorrectly stated that “all high-ranking government officers must swear an oath”, your the one who needs to check your facts.
Not surprisingly, it seems I can no longer post here.
I’ve found a lot of supposedly ‘conservative’ blogs are like that; they can’t take differing opinions.
Brian, atheism IS a religion. So is secular humanism and agnosticism. The government is NOT barred by law from giving aid to the Boy Scouts, but by mis-interpretations from activist judges egged on by secular organizations such as the ACLU. By the way, secularism is also a religion.
Hey Kender, if atheism is a religion, why do you plainly claim that the government can discriminate against atheists by supporting a private organization that excludes them? What do you have against religious freedom?
Well Kender, if atheism is a religion, on what grounds do you claim the gov’t can support a private organization that excludes atheists? Are you against religious freedom?
Oh, don’t bother to answer, this intellectually cowardly blog won’t let me post unless I keep changing my name, since differing opinions are considered “spam” - only yes-men allowed (just like the Bush administration).
Well Kender, if atheism is a religion, on what grounds do you claim the gov’t can support a private organization that excludes atheists? Are you against religious freedom?
Oh, don’t bother to answer, this intellectually cowardly blog won’t let me post unless I keep changing my name, since differing opinions are considered “spam” - only yes-men allowed (just like the Bush administration)…
Sorry you feel that way, like I have control over the spam filter. Anyway, nice to meet you. You will be missed dearly.
Funny that “Brian” should complain about others not including arguments when all he did was, in the last few posts, either repeat himself or ask rhetorical questions.
“Sorry” I missed him.
/TJ
Brian, you can lump the democratic underground into the list of places that dissent is not allowed….if the government must stop giving to groups that mention God, on the false basis that it is promoting religion, then they must stop giving to everyone, as religion is the WAY you live, not a professed belief in a creator or superior being.
Yup brian, I had some athiests in my unit in two different wars. It was quite amusing how scared they would get and want someone to pray for them when the loud booms started getting close. All of them I knew turned to christianity.
What it all boils down to is this. The first amendment guarantees anyone anwhere in this country to practice their religion as they see fit. For any judge to rule for or against anything that prohibits any person or person from their right to practice their religion freely is a violation of their constitutional right under the first amemdment. So the ACLU and all of these anti-religious jackasses can f off and stop violating peoples rights.
And to add to that, Mr. Wonderful, Brian clearly has a strong hatred of religion and good moral values. That’s why he agrees with the ACLU, because they have the exact same opinion.
And he’s also uninformed. In North Carolina, if you refuse to say, “So Help Me God,” in your oath, you cannot serve in elected office.
The NC Constitution also clearly states: “The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”
“And he’s also uninformed. In North Carolina, if you refuse to say, “So Help Me God,” in your oath, you cannot serve in elected office.”
The courts invalidated that back in 1961, see Torcaso v. Watkins. States cannot have a religious test for public office. It’s not surprising you hate the constitution and religious freedom.
Way do all Republicans assume that if Democrats are against the war, we’re against the military. The military has done their job well and with honor in Iraq, but just because I believe that DOESN’T mean I’m for this war. The military is a great institution, but just because people come out against the war, doesn’t mean you can criticize us back by saing we don’t support our troops or our freedom. It’s a shame if you DO believe that.
I’m a Boy Scout in troop 425 Beech Island SC. I have made my own blogspot and noticed your blog on google. Congrats on being top of the list. But I have basicly the same message on my blog. Please check out my site. I have not much more to say, Thanks.
John,
First Class