Trespassing Arrest Called A Free Speech Violation By ACLU
Posted on August 27, 2005
Cross Posted At Gribbit’s Word
This is where a candidate for public office in the Commonwealth of Virginia and a Strip Plaza manager came into contact. Creating a situation for the ACLU to start to spout their free speech infringement bunk.
Richard Collins is running for the State Delegate seat for the 57th district but didn’t have the money to run a successful ad campaign. So what does he do on his shoe string budget? He prints up flyers and goes to the local shopping plaza and camps out in the parking lot in front of a grocery store.
Grant it, this was an idea to encounter the masses of the community because everyone eats. But he didn’t realize that the lot is the property manager’s area of responsibility. And in order to protect the business interests of his tenets and the safety of their customers, the property manager cannot allow solicitation of the customers on the property. Let’s face it, it is PRIVATE PROPERTY.
The property owner pays property tax for the land and buildings on it. Therefore it is not public property. The government doesn’t maintain it, a private business does. The customers of his tenets are guests on his property.
If this joker was going door to door and he came to your house, and you didn’t have the time or desire to listen to him, you would have the right to tell him to hit the bricks right? This is no different.
But for some reason the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia is turning this into an infringement on the 1st Amendment.
When Mr. Collins was asked to leave the strip mall by the property manager he refused. The police became involved and Collins was charged with trespassing.
The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia allows citizens to speak and hand out literature in a “Town Square Setting.” The ACLU is arguing in modern day, shopping malls and strip plazas constitute modern day “Town Square Settings”. This is a falsehood.
A town square used to be the “Green” or the park in the center of most of small town America. In other words the “Commons”. A piece of land owned and maintained by the town. A strip plaza or a mall are private properties not public lands.
If Mr. Collins wanted to get his word out on the cheap, he could have done so by going door to door. But in doing so, he would be faced with those who would not want to hear his rhetoric. Would he refuse to leave farmer Bob’s land if Bob said, “I’m not interested please leave?” If he didn’t he’d be faced with a couple of conceivable situations. Either having a shotgun pointed to his nose or the local police being called to remove him. And that is the same thing that is happening here.
The property owner said leave, he said no, and the law said you are trespassing. How is that restricting his “free speech?” This is nothing more than ACLU legalize to further a leftist agenda. Collins is running on the Democratic ticket for that seat. And as such, sympathetic to the causes championed by the American Civil Liberties Union.
They don’t see Mr. Collins speech being restricted, they see their own speech being restricted. Without having Collins in the State Legislature, they loose 1 voice there. So right or wrong, they are going to cry wolf where non exists just to try and get small town America to capitulate. Another case of the Strong Arm Tactics of the Most Dangerous Organization in America.
Although there is another solution, if there is an empty store front in the plaza, why hasn’t he inquired about renting that. He would therefore be entitled to stand with his toes on the “lease line” as it’s called and shout his message at the top of his lungs because he is paying for the privilege in his rent.
But I doubt that Mr. Collins wants to pay upwards of $4,000 per square foot per month to lease a store front to get elected to an office where if elected he would barely recover the amount paid in rent in the first year in the seat. Not without some graft payments to his favorite charity that is. His PAC maybe.
The full AP story is available here. I would re-print it to save you time BUT an activist judge has granted the AP some special exemption to Title 17 section 107 of the U.S.C.
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16 Responses to “Trespassing Arrest Called A Free Speech Violation By ACLU”
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“The ACLU is arguing in modern day, shopping malls and strip plazas constitute modern day “Town Square Settings”. This is a falsehood.”
NJ recognizes the a speech interest in malls as a town square setting. I can see how a strip mall can be such a setting without it being public property.
Of course you can fark, because you are a blind idiot that just believes everything the ACLU tells you. You know, I might take your opinion serious enough to debate with if you didn’t just blindly swallow everything the liberals feed you, and just disagree here to disagree. Is there anything the ACLU does wrong in your eyes, or are they a perfect utopian peace lovers group in your opinion.
If you would actually argue with any common sense…I would respond more often. We have a liberal named Margarat that comes here and argues…very respectable.
Even Mark S., who disagrees with us the majority of times will concede the ACLU is wrong in many cases…such as the idiot who compred the school district to terrorists. Don’t swallow everything whole fark, or you will choke on the lies.
Think for yourself, and even if you are a anonymous troll, you will gain more respect.
Gribbit doesn’t like Mark, but I respect Mark a lot more than you, because he actually thinks for himself sometimes.
” Is there anything the ACLU does wrong in your eyes, or are they a perfect utopian peace lovers group in your opinion.”
I was uncomfortable with some of their opinions on the Nike v. Kasky litigation. But I don’t think the ACLU had 1 unitary position on that.
Its really quite easy to see strip mall being a ‘town square setting.’ I can do it without hearing the ACLU’s argument for it.
Yet the fact is that it is private property. Imagine all you want, it won’t make it something it is not.
“Yet the fact is that it is private property. ”
And the VA law is about town square settings, private or not.
Main Entry: town
Pronunciation: ‘taun
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English tun enclosure, village, town; akin to Old High German zun enclosure, Old Irish dún fortress
1 dialect English : a cluster or aggregation of houses recognized as a distinct place with a place-name : HAMLET
2 a : a compactly settled area as distinguished from surrounding rural territory b : a compactly settled area usually larger than a village but smaller than a city c : a large densely populated urban area : CITY d : an English village having a periodic fair or market
3 : a neighboring city, capital city, or metropolis
4 : the city or urban life as contrasted with the country
5 : the inhabitants of a city or town
6 : a New England territorial and political unit usually containing under a single town government both rural areas and urban areas not having their own charter of incorporation; also : a New England community governed by a town meeting
7 : a group of prairie dog burrows
- town adjective
- on the town : in usually carefree pursuit of entertainment or amusement (as city nightlife) especially as a relief from routine
Main Entry: square
Pronunciation: ’skwar, ’skwer
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French esquarre, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin exquadra, from exquadrare to square, from Latin ex- + quadrare to square — more at QUADRATE
1 : an instrument having at least one right angle and two straight edges used especially to lay out or test right angles
2 : a rectangle with all four sides equal
3 : any of the quadrilateral spaces marked out on a board for playing games
4 : the product of a number multiplied by itself
5 a : an open place or area formed at the meeting of two or more streets b : BLOCK 6a
6 : a solid object or piece approximating a cube or having a square as its largest face
7 : an unopened cotton flower with its enclosing bracts
8 : a person who is conventional or conservative in taste or way of life
Or in other terms, an angle of 90 degrees.
In middle America, a Town square is a small municiple setting where the “Town” is centered around a park. Town Square. Examples in NE Ohio being Andover or Chardon. Both towns have streets that travel in a square around a central “square” park centered for public use and display.
A picture of Chardon Square is availabe at http://www.burrservice.com/artwork/town.jpg
And a view of Andover Square from a motorcycle looking from Rte 7 - South coming into the Square http://mainrestaurant2004.tripod.com/mainrun2004_048andover.jpg
So stick that in your fark and smoke it.
“So stick that in your fark and smoke it.”
It says town square setting, not town square. Are you really getting hung up on the shape, as opposed to the setting?
The shape is nothing more than a discription and a reason for the name. Back when most eastern cities and towns were set up and laid out, the “Green” or “Town Square” was the center of the town. Even the major city of Cleveland has a particular place called “Public Square”. It happens to be the park and monument center located right in front of the Terminal Tower Complex.
A Town Square Setting was intended to mean a “public” forum. Not private property which happens to collect masses of people.
I have run several retail stores in several different strip plazas and 2 malls. And I can tell you, if someone was harrassing my incoming customers, I would be complaining to the property management. A retail store pays thousands of dollars in rents to be located in a secure retail environment.
This is not to be confused with the main street store front which has nothing but a public (publically owned) sidewalk in front of it. If this guy wanted to stand out in front of a main street store front and make his pitch, the most that could be asked of him is to move.
But in this case, private property is private property. And if I were the plaza manager, I’d be pushing for not only trespassing charges, but disorderly conduct charges as well.
Your case that a privately owned shopping plaza is a “town square” environment is a falsehood. And you citation of New Jersey’s recognition of a mall or plaza being a town square setting is moronic. What is the case study?
If the state were to force me to allow this kind of harrassment of customers on a retail property that I would own, I’d close it down and leave it vacant just to avoid this confrontation. Then who suffers? The people who would normally shop there.
Plaza and mall management has a responsibilty to provide a safe and pleasant shopping experience for the customers of it’s tenants. Period. Allowing a deadbeat with no budget to push his campaign for public office is an intrusion on that pleasant shopping experience. And as such, cannot be permitted. Period.
‘A Town Square Setting was intended to mean a “public” forum.’
I see the intent being a town square setting. I don’t see any indication that this has to be government property.
“And you citation of New Jersey’s recognition of a mall or plaza being a town square setting is moronic.”
Whats moronic about it? You think its not true? New jersey coalition against the war v. JMB realty, 50 A.2d 757 (NJ 1994).
sorry. thats 650 A.2d 757, not 50.
“I see the intent being a town square setting. I don’t see any indication that this has to be government property.”
Careful there fark… you might give us ammunition that just might blow your ‘ideological boat’ of ‘Separation of Church and State’ right out of the water!
“Careful there fark… you might give us ammunition that just might blow your ‘ideological boat’ of ‘Separation of Church and State’ right out of the water! ”
What are you talking about?
Fark, a town square is owned by the community, paid for by the community, taken care of by the community as a whole. This is the reason it is open to all individuals to exercize their free speech in.
A mall was bought and paid for, and therefore belongs to a company or individual. This puts it under the regulation of that person or company. If they don’t want naked people painted in different colors expressing their religion, or people walking barefoot, or smoking going on, or PEOPLE CAMPAIGNING, then that is their peragotive, and none of the ACLU’s business to interfere with.
You own a house? You make the rules of what goes on inside that house. If you want people to be free to just come there and crash and sell drugs, and pass out literature for different religions, and campaigns, and have orgies or whatever…that is your house, and you can do that.
A mall, while used by the public, is used by them because that is what the individual or company trying to make money wants.
They can also make the rules of what is not allowed to happen.
“Fark, a town square is owned by the community, paid for by the community, taken care of by the community as a whole. ”
And I think a town square setting can exist even on private property, say, the town square of a company town.
“A mall was bought and paid for, and therefore belongs to a company or
individual”
Now your private property rule gets interesting when we consider the public efforts that are expended on malls, such as any subsidies or tax benefits they received, or even the roads that were built to get to the mall.
For argument’s sake let’s say I owned that strip plaza in Virgina (the one in question). Now, not only do I have a responsibility to my tenants to maintain a safe and pleasent shopping environment for their customers, but the plaza is a business. A source of income for myself and my family. As well as the source of incomes of those who work there. If this type of “free speech” was permitted, along with solicitations from street vendors who have not paid me rents, my income will drop. Why? Because if the stores aren’t selling, they aren’t staying.
The last store that I ran was in a declining strip plaza. My rent was $3,600 per month. (I say this as a point of reference) That’s $43,200 per year in rent.
Now if business declines due to a drop in footprints in the stores, a business is more inclined to shop around for either 1. cheaper rent or 2. increased traffic.
It is a fact, that if a customer is approached by one sort of solicitation after another on each visit to a mall or strip plaza, they will do one of 2 things. 1. find a retail venue without such solicitations or 2. start shopping more online. And when that happens, not only am I losing income, but so are my tenants, their employees, and their suppliers.
All for the sake of a low budget campaign for state office.
No Fark, a mall or plaza is not a town square setting, it is a business. And all businesses reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime. Why? Because it is private property.
“No Fark, a mall or plaza is not a town square setting, it is a business.”
It can act as both. People go to malls to shop, to hang out, and to do other things. If it looks like a town square setting, it would be one under the law. Specially in this day and age where we are losing public property.