The ACLU Needs A Curfew of Its Own
Posted on July 30, 2005
KNIGHTDALE — While the American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina described its visit to Knightdale on Thursday night as a community forum to discuss the town’s new curfew, many residents clearly thought the group was there to start trouble. Source
So the ACLU shows up to the party as an univited guest, and tries to run the show. With complete disregard to the democratic process, as always. It seems the concerned crowd was a large one for such a small town, with enough citizens concerned that it had to be moved from the library to the town hall.
The majority of those in attendance were staunchly in favor of the curfew, which requires teens younger than 18 to be indoors by 9 p.m. They struggled to hold their tongues while Jennifer Rudinger, the ACLU’s executive director, and staff attorney Shelagh Kenney made their case against the use of curfews.
Rudinger explained that, as policy, the ACLU opposes teen curfews because they are ineffective and unconstitutional. The ACLU has said it is considering taking action against the town but wanted to discuss the issue with the community first.
What a considerate, and polite THREAT!!! Despite what the majority of citizens think, let us rub it in your face that you probably can’t afford not to bend to our will. It will be very costly for your small town if you continue in your efforts to improve the safety of your communites.
Yes, that’s right. The curfew was a proposed solution to a growing problem in the community.
Most of those in attendance scoffed at those arguments. They described how their neighborhoods had deteriorated to the point where they no longer felt safe, and that since the curfew was adopted in June, things had improved dramatically.
“I applaud the Town Council for having the courage to take this step,” said Doug Taylor, who described the curfew as a necessary safety measure, comparing it to the use of speed limits.
So the ACLU thinks this infringes upon the rights of these children to assemble to protest the government, and blah, blah, blah. The curfew is 9 p.m. for these kids…if they want to protest the government they should wake up early, and instead of playing video games, get up and speak their voice. The ACLU is making this into something it is not. This is about reducing crime from young gangsters, and has nothing to do with restricting the rights of free assembly.
William Teach points out…
And that is what happens when a group like the ACLU tries to impose it’s will on a township that feels that they know the best way to run their community. You have an escalating gang problem in the Triangle are (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, including the surrounding areas, including Knightdale), and Knightdale is taking action. Good for them. We aren’t talking about a bunch of preppy kids all running around in their SUV’s wearing pink shirts and boat shoes. We are talking real gangs.
The town says that the graffiti, property damage, and violence has gone down dramatically since June 1, 2005, when the curfew went into effect. The majority of concerned citizens seem to have found a way to reduce crime in their neighborhoods, but the majority’s opinon doesn’t matter to the ACLU. While these kids should be home studying, the ACLU is arguing against effective crime reduction policies that the majority have made their voice loud on. The ACLU has no concern for the democratic process. Keep your eye on this folks, there is bound to be a lawsuit soon. There always is when a town sticks up for itself against the almighty ACLU.
Thank you Mudville Gazette
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, Illegal Activities
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24 Responses to “The ACLU Needs A Curfew of Its Own”
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The ACLU and their army of attorneys believe that they actually know what is best for you and me that we do. They think they know what’s best for local government. Only they have the level of intelligence required to make decisions to best serve the nation and the planet.
It’s been tried. And there was a revolution in 1991 that ended the experiment in ACLU politics.
Great post as usual boss.
With the ACLU, individual rights always trump the rights of a community.
I can see how you dislike the ACLU, but it just seems a little absurd to care this much about it.
You’re probably right, leger–we should just go to sleep on our rights, like you, and let the ACLU dictate our way of life…which is what will happen if people don’t stand up for their inalienable rights–not just the ones the ACLU would like you to have.
Certainly we should all stand up for our inalienable right to equal protection of law. And if that’s the issue here, the solution would seem pretty straightforward: have the curfew apply to everyone. (Ok, the police could be exempt to enforce the curfew.)
I don’t see why these things always get so complicated.
The people of this community are not the ones “complicating” isssues here nobody.really. It is the ACLU. In the two towns I live in (dividing my time between work and home) both have curfews, not at 9pm - in these cases both are 11pm. Curfews work - the kids are off the streets and are not messing around looking for things to do when they get bored and start daring each other, which is the primary reason most end up getting into trouble.
Leger - I think all of us supporters of Stop the ACLU would be thrilled, if the ACLU didn’t either exist anymore or would have a sincere interest in taking cases that were truly deserving of legal aide. This case is proof of the type of frivolous cases the ACLU will get involved in, which will not enhance or enrich the community that they involve themselves with.
I can’t believe you are arguing this. The Soviets used to have all kinds of curfews, in this country you should be free to go wherever and whenever you please. The government can pry my liberty to walk around as I want from my cold dead hands.
2nd Amendment all the way! You people are so closed minded you don’t realize the ACLU can actually protect you.
Have you forgotten how the liberals started taking away our guns, with one small law at a time.
Bunch of imbeciles. Shame on you.
Also, why not make it *BEING A GANGSTER* itself.
Aren’t there enough laws to get these hoodlums as there are, why do we need yet more government control??
First it’s curfews for the hoodlums, then it’s for teens driving at night (most crashes happen at night), then why not just make it for everyone.
You have forgotten your lessons from the defeat of the Soviets, this country is free and should stay so.
Bob, are you even aware of the ACLU’s stance on gun control?
Imbecile.
Hopefully Bob will enlighten himself - along with all those who comment and accuse us here of being liberals. I find it sad that people are quick to give an opinion when they haven’t got a clue what they are talking about.
Bob…
In this day of information and technology it is extremely easy to research the ACLU or anyone to find where they really stand on issues. You are too lazy to do even that, yet critisize those who have and know what they are talking about.
And you call us imbeciles…amazing!
Bob talks about the government control and such. Bob…this was a town meeting. The people of the community unanimously made this decision for their own community. It doesn’t affect you. The ACLU stuck its nose where it didn’t belong.
“2nd Amendment all the way! You people are so closed minded you don’t realize the ACLU can actually protect you.”
Can anyone else see the contradiction in this statement?
looks like I will need to do my 2nd amendment post this week.
well Bob, local governments should be left to their own to govern as they feel they should. Remember, this is a democracy. If the people in the town don’t want this curfew, let them speak through their elected officials.
Who on a national or state level knows better than those in that town what is best for them. We don’t know the extent of their problem. Only they do. So leave them to govern the way they choose to.
There is nothing repressive about letting local governments govern. But if a federal judge steps in on bahalf of the ACLU and orders the city to end the curfew, then the federal government is telling the local government that they cannot govern. And that is the greater evil.
Applying the curfew to everyone is absurd. Minors are to be supervised by adults. If the parents don’t keep their kids from roaming the streets and causing trouble, the community must step in. Anyone who thinks that this is some kind of “political protest rights” violation is spinning the issue.
“If the parents don’t keep their kids from roaming the streets and causing trouble, the community must step in.”
Ah yes, it takes a village to raise a child….
But Christopher (and others) focus on the salient point: it’s legal to discriminate against youth.
I suggested that, to avoid Equal Protection problems, the city could simply apply the curfew to everyone. I knew full well that most people would not put up with a 9pm curfew, even if they would willingly impose the same rule on kids. But I suspect the ACLU’s concern is not Equal Protection but Due Process and Freedom of Association.
Generally we don’t permit government to deprive people of life, liberty or property without due process of law. House arrest is a form of liberty deprivation, and curfews are a form of house arrest. Even if crime statistics showed that blacks were disproportionately likely to commit crime, that wouldn’t justify imposing a curfew on ALL blacks. So does the statement that kids are disproportionately likely to commit crime justify imposing a curfew on all kids?
Maybe. We deprive kids of the right to vote based on no other criteria than youth. So maybe liberty is like voting, a right you have to grow into.
Are you people serious? Are you just fighting this because the ACLU is involved and/or do you actually think that a curfew is appropriate?
This is a complete disregard to civil liberties. What is wrong with a 17-year-old being out after 9pm? I used to deliver pizzas when I was 16 and was out till 12am. Your telling me that these kids need to be home by 9pm. That is wrong. It is also wrong to keep these kids from hanging out with more than 3 friends at a time at any time of the day. Only 2 on 2 games from now on? What if I was in the park with 3 friends and another group of 4 showed up? Even if we didn’t know them, we are now in violation of the “law.” You need to have you heads examined. Hell, since the town is only 20 minutes from here, I might just organize a peaceful gathering of 100 17 year olds and myself as the supervising adult. This is ridicolous.
If the community had a program for these kids, they wouldn’t need to look for something to do. Create an environment for these kids instead of creating animosity for the government. Think like the kid, why should they do what the government wants, when the government does nothing for them.
“I might just organize a peaceful gathering of 100 17 year olds and myself as the supervising adult. This is ridicolous.”
What is ridiculous is an adult that would teach children how to protest the Government rather than explain to them that it is the Government’s responsibility to serve the best interests of the public, including, maintaining law and order. That it is not the Government’s responsibility to entertain, raise or babysit your children.
If you have enough motivation to organize 100 17 year-olds, take them down to the pool or park. Take them fishing. Put together a baseball team or other sport they like.
“Think like the kid, why should they do what the government wants, when the government does nothing for them.”
Why should the Government do anything for those who do not want to obey the laws and rules of society?
Do you honestly think we should spend tax dollars to police your children until 12:00am or until when ever you think its your turn to take back responsibility for your kids?
Maybe you should quit thinking like the kids!
Oh, so we need to take control and because we can’t do that we need to restrict?
People use guns to kill so stop making guns.
People drink and drive so stop making cars.
People use rope, bags, razor blades, etc to commit suicide so stop making them.
These are examples of how you are treating this situation. Education is the solution!
Yes, the problem that the majority of these people lack responsibility, but enforcing a curfew doesn’t solve the issue. Hello, even though these kids are now sitting at home, they still have no responsibility. The message you are sending to the kids is to go home. You are isolating individuals who have no chance at socialization or productivity. In general, this is a failure of society as a whole. Watch Coach Carter. This movie gives an excellent description of today’s youth and what it takes to straighten them out.
It cracks me up that you think a curfew solves everything.
Since you love quoting, you said, “What is ridiculous is an adult that would teach children how to protest the Government.” Yeah, it is absolutely ridiculous to stage a peaceful gathering as protected by the U.S. Constitution. Yes, I would encourage and educate them on the system. Your alternative is to lock them up. Do you know how these people protest now? I’m affecting a positive change. You are encouraging animosity. You are encouraging the very things you are trying to stop by instituting the curfew.
Do you know anything about operant conditioning? Negative Punishment rarely gets you the results you are after.
“That it is not the Government’s responsibility to entertain, raise or babysit your children.” What is school? A place where kids are somewhat educated, raised, and babysat.
You have no idea how much I give back to society. You are still hung up on adult mentality. Ghetto kids don’t care about following the rules because they think that no one cares about them. It takes a bigger person to step up and affect changed rather than just pushing them back where they came from. As I said, watch Coach Carter. This movie is based upon a true-life story and is exactly what I’m talking about. Man, everyone affiliated with this site is the direct cause of many of the world’s problem today. You only see what you want to see and you are not able to see the whole picture. I don’t know how old you are, but I’m guessing at least 30. Did you always do what your parents told you to do? I didn’t think so, that is unless you are over 50 when your ass was handed to you by your parents. Yes, this method worked, but it isn’t the best approach and this is where we agree to disagree.
My tax dollars are spent in many ways that I do not want them to be. If I have to pay for freedom from oppression, then I will.
I’m not suggesting that the curfew is wise. I’m just suggesting it may be legal. Sure, it’s based on discimination against a class of people (the young), but not a SUSPECT class.
Legislatures (like a city counsel) get to make decisions about which public policies are wise; courts only get to decide which policies are legal. In threatening to sue, the ACLU must make its argument based on legality, not wisdom. So whether or not we would have adopted the same policy, it’s irrelevant now. The only question remaining is whether the policy is legal.
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