Lawmakers back officials facing jail for prayer
Two Florida school officials facing possible jail terms for praying in the presence of students arrive in court Thursday enjoying the support of more than 60 members of Congress. Some of those members, who signed a letter of support and sent it to the two school officials Monday, took to the House floor Tuesday night to denounce what they called a “criminalization of prayer” that “tramples on the First Amendment rights” of Christians. “The Founding Fathers would be appalled” at the trial of Pace High School Principal Frank Lay and his school athletic director, Robert Freeman, said Rep. Jeff Miller of Florida. His Pensacola-based district includes Santa Rosa County, where the lawsuit is based.
The 9 a.m. trial “is one of the first times we’ve literally had the potential for the criminalization of prayer in the United States of America,” said Rep. J. Randy Forbes of Virginia, chairman of the Congressional Prayer Caucus.
If the two men are found guilty, “there will come a day,” Mr. Forbes predicted, “when the speaker of this house will be hauled into federal court and threatened with jail because she dares to stand at that podium where you stand tonight and ask the chaplain to start our day with the prayer.” Mr. Forbes, Mr. Miller and Rep. Mike McIntyre, North Carolina Democrat, were signatories to the Monday letter to the two educators, assuring them that “we are standing with you in prayer and support as you face your trial.” More than 60 members of the House have co-signed.
The two educators are being tried in federal district court in Pensacola for breaching the conditions of a lawsuit settlement reached last year with the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU sued Santa Rosa County School District a year ago on behalf of two students who claimed that some teachers and administrators were allowing prayers at school events, orchestrating separate religiously themed graduation services and proselytizing students during class and after school.
In January, the school district settled out of court with the ACLU, agreeing to several conditions, including the barring of all school employees from promoting or sponsoring prayers during school-sponsored events. The ACLU complained to U.S. District Judge Margaret C. “Casey” Rodgers after Mr. Lay asked Mr. Freeman to offer mealtime prayers at a Jan. 28 lunch for school employees and booster-club members who had helped with a school field-house project. The judge then issued a contempt order for the two men.
Mr. Miller criticized the order, saying, “a federal judge has gone well outside the bounds of the Constitution to declare that prayer offered among adults is illegal.” There was “zero student participation” at the event, he said. “That the court would somehow consider this action to be criminal behavior is simply unconscionable.” The judge’s injunction “tramples upon the First Amendment rights of a specific group of people,” Mr. Miller added, “denying them the equal protection that is provided under the very Constitution that we believe in.”
The contempt order had also included Michelle Winkler, a clerical assistant who asked her husband, who is not a school employee, to bless an evening meal at a private event in February at a nearby naval base with other school employees. After a 7 1/2-hour trial Aug. 21, the judge removed Mrs. Winkler’s name from the order.
Susan Watson, the Northwest regional director for the ACLU’s Florida affiliate, said she had not seen the letter from the House members, so she had no comment. Glenn Katon, director of the Florida ACLU’s religious freedom project, called the letter “political grandstanding.”
Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Counsel, the Orlando-based legal group that is defending the two school officials, posted the letter on the group’s Web site at www.lc.org, noting that Thursday is national Constitution Day. He said he expects the judge to rule within a few hours.
Posted by John Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.). For a daily critique of Leftist activities, see DISSECTING LEFTISM. To keep up with attacks on free speech see TONGUE-TIED. Also, don’t forget your daily roundup of pro-environment but anti-Greenie news and commentary at GREENIE WATCH . Email me (John Ray) here
Email This
Posted by JonJayRay on September 17, 2009 10:12 am
» Filed Under 10th Amendment, 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, ACLU, Activist Judges, Anti-Americanism, Anti-free speech, Bigotry, Christianity, Church And State, Communism, Congress, Education, Founding Fathers, Gov.Censorship, Government corruption, House, Judicial Tyranny, News, Social Engineering, States Rights, Stupidity, Totalitarianism, U.S. Constitution, Unconstitutional
Trackback URL:
Comments
22 Responses to “Lawmakers back officials facing jail for prayer”
-
-
-
Affiliations
The Giants
Advertise
-
-
Our Store
- Click the design to visit our store and help Stop the ACLU!
-
- More blogs about the ACLU
Syndicate Me
It is a sad sad day. This sounds like communism. You know when they took pray out of the schools, public places God cried.
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
Students are allowed to pray privately. It’s just that school’s cannot sponsor prayer. Students are allowed to carry bibles. The school administration knew better. They had agreed to the consent decree. They broke the law by disobeying the judges orders. They chose this, and now they have to live with the punishment.
Just because it’s been done for year doesn’t make it acceptable. Rape of children wives has been done in Yemen and other countries for years but is that right? Keep your prayers in your mind, not in my face.
I’ll bet if they were muslims and prayed for allah to bless their meeting, this same blog would be railing against them.
You’d lose that bet MC.
This site could not care less about Muslims praying to Allah for a blessing.
We are more about pointing out the hypocrisy of the ACLU and people like you, who subscribe to the so-called “separation of Church and State” and your willingness to ignore crap like this:
How sad that so many Americans fail to realize that “freedom of religion” means more than the right to attend the Christian church of your choice on Sunday morning. The ACLU is the best defender of YOUR rights when it defends the right of those who are not like you to follow their own faiths — a right that you are more than happy to take away.
Alluding that the ACLU is communist for trying to defend our civil liberties is ludicrous, however I side with the school adminstrators on this one. The 2 students who originaly brought about this court order are brats, and the ACLU should not have taken up their cause. Here’s why: Religious freedom means you can’t be hindered from observing your religion. Faculty offering a prayer at a meal or event is by no means a way of forcing a student to observe a religion. Even if your an atheist, you keep your mouth shut and wait for them to finish. It doesn’t hurt you. What about the principal’s freedom of religion? Many people offer thanks at a meal, or bless a new building ect. The judge was wrong to order him to refrain.
Seperation of church and state merely means that the church doesn’t run govt. and govt. doesn’t run the church. That’s it. It doesn’t mean you can’t pray in school. A student’s civil rights mean he doesn’t HAVE to participate. He also doesn’t HAVE to say the pledge of allegiance. But again, cortesy would dictate that you keep your damned mouth shut and wait for the rest to finish.
If the ACLU is so great then why don’t you hear about them using our civil liberties to help people when they are faced with famine, death, disaster, and ruthless governments? Every one of men’s major catastrophies is met with the love, support, and money of Christians (both in America and out of America). You don’t hear of other religions doing as much to ease human suffering around the world as you do Christianity. Why doesn’t the ACLU put some of their lawyer and organizational fees towards relieving true suffering instead of always trying to stop the one thing that people can always depend on…more than the government, to help when it’s really needed. The Christian community reaches out in more ways to help people throughout the world than the ACLU has ever done.
Like these two couldn’t say their prayers silently? These guys were looking to make a scene, to make a show of their prayers. I think people in positions of authority in publicly funded schools should do just what the ACLU is saying… keep your prayers to yourselves. Do NOT try to influence our kids with your superstition, beliefs, or religions. It may prevent others from trying to convert your kids to Islam, or some other b.s. “religion.
This is ridiculous. Two Christian men could be sentenced for up to 6 months for a two minute luncheon prayer with consenting adults because the ACLU says they foisted their personal beliefs on the attendees, and yet on September 25, an estimated 250,000 Muslims will descend on Washington DC to pray for an entire day to many who are not consenting and and that’s not considerd foisting their beliefs? Ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.
Now let’s get it right. For two men to pray at school is “foisting” their beliefs on the kids and they deserve jail time, ruining their careers. This promotes violence against religious people by labeling them as criminals because of their beliefs.
Who would recomend jail time to a teacher that blatantly promoted homosexuality to his or her students? Most leftists would call it “curriculum”! So much for “keeping the government out of our bedrooms.”
Because you should be able to violate a court order as long as it is to do something Christian.
They promised the judge they would not do something. They did it anyway. If they did not get in trouble then what is to stop the next person with a court order from violating it and pointing to this case saying ‘but you did not apply it to them!’.
This is a setup. They did something they knew they were not supposed to do with the knowledge that they would get blind support from concervate Christians and make the judge look like the bad guy if he does not back down.
The irony is, of course…. the ACLU is protecting Christian rights in cases like this. Too many people have forgotten that these laws were put in place to protect Christians from each other. Many modern denominations, including Evangelicals (and esp Baptists), were heavy oppressed by other sects that had various levels of state support. They were able to thrive and grow due to the capitalism of religion… the state stayed out of the competition between churches and state officials were banned from helping one way or the other. This allowed the weaker denominations to survive.
The anti-establishment clause crowd on the other hand is about as communist as you can get… they want the state to be able to selectively endorse denominations over others.
It would actually be funny if the establishment clauses were actually revoked and people got a good taste of what happens when sects turn on each other again. Catholic students having to say protestant prayers.. Unitarians vs Church of Christ, Baptists jailed for preaching without a license (which could only be given to Anglican priests). And forget having any control over what version your kids are taught. Is Jesus divine? Is there a trinity? Is salvation predestined, given to those who accept Jesus, or via good works? Do you REALLY want elected officials deciding those questions for you? Oh, and don’t forget, immigration and population shifts can change demographics… so even if one’s denomination is on top in your local area today, it might not be tomorrow.
The good old days of real oppression. Christian on Christian.
We don’t condone violating a court order, but we don’t know the actual wording of the order, therefore this isn’t enough information to (dis)prove that they did violate it. However, this does look like a double standard. People are protected in their freedom of speech and expression that includes vulgarity. Why not prayer? Which one is actually harmful to the people around it?
I fully agree with the comment about how the response would have been different if the prayer had been from a non-christian religion (jewish, muslim, hindu).
I also agree with the commment about how these 2 individuals knew that they were breaking their agreement and chose to do it anyway. I don’t particularly think they need to go to jail but I think there needs to be some meaningful consequence to their actions (fine, community service).
As representatives of the school system, they should be aware their actions have larger significance. If you can’t handle teh responsibility, find another job.
Public school administrators have ZERO business reciting prayers, much less offering them.
Daremonai,
You know it took civil disobedience to end segregation in the US. Would you say “Gone are the days when whites could drink from ‘clean’ water fountains?” I would hope not. And again I point out that the State, as well as the ACLU, takes the opposite stand when it comes to sexuality. The State injects it’s self into the personal lives and beliefs of students when it mandates the teaching of sexual curriculum.
When the State justifies the oppression of one group of people under the guise of protecting the rights of another, justice and equality are threatened.
The Establishment Clause states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
It is clear that the “free exercise therof” is being “prohibited”. The teacher should not teach his or her religion during class unless the class is an elective focused on that topic. But to say that the mere presence of religious expression on public school property is equal to the State establishing a religion is ridiculous.
All the arguments that you can give to support prohibiting someone from practicing their religion at school can be applied to rooting for you favorite football team. When a school holds a pep rally, I would feel compelled to support the school team. But what if I liked a rival team. Maybe I should call on the ACLU to end all pep rallies?
As an athiest I don’t want your beliefs imposed on my child in school, its a place of education, not religion. BTW for you Christian hypocrits if every morning at school started out with a Budist prayer, a Muslim prayer and a Jewish prayer you’d be up in arms. Believe what you want and do what you want in your own house or church, but don’t use the school as a bullhorn to promote your particular beliefs (as others don’t to your children.)
This is NOT about freedom of speech. This is about a violation of a Conset Decree – arbitrated by a court – agreed to by both parties – signed, notarized and sworn to in front of a judge. The school officials – with FULL KNOWLEDGE of the Decree (as they not only signed it – but all officials received copies of said Decree) chose to violate it and thus place themselves in Contempt of Court. If the school officials had not signed the Decree, they would not be facing jail time. But they did, and they are – which is as it should be.
Oh – and the Decree was signed just 9 days ago. Are they THAT absent minded?
The Constitution of the U.S> and every State within, calls for the blessing of God and or thanks God. If you want freedom from religion, fine, do not stop the rest of us from our worship of God. If you don’t believe in God or find him offensive, don’t touch our Money, Don’t go to the Post Office and stay away from all Federal buildings that have religious statements or symbols on them. That pretty much cuts out D.C. Leave this Principal and Athletic Director alone, they violated a Court Order which violated the U.S. Constitution in the First Place.