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	<title>Comments on: AGW Today: Playing Politics And Burning Questions</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: Steynian 363 &#171; Free Canuckistan!</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118991</link>
		<dc:creator>Steynian 363 &#171; Free Canuckistan!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118991</guid>
		<description>[...] GLOBAL COOLING WATCH&#8211; AGW Today: Playing Politics And Burning Questions; Undermining Science and Twisting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] GLOBAL COOLING WATCH&#8211; AGW Today: Playing Politics And Burning Questions; Undermining Science and Twisting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Pattinson</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118959</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Pattinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118959</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the links, but I couldn&#039;t find the graph in your post or the figures used in it.  You should know that a number of the theories championed by Easterbrook have been examined and shown to be lacking.

For example- Mid century cooling- http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/03/what-about-mid-century-cooling.php - CO2 isn&#039;t the only thing controlling the planet&#039;s temperature, during this period the global dimming effect of particulates overwhelmed it.  Various other of his arguments, such as that it&#039;s a natural cycle or all down to sun spot activity- and several other points- are addressed in articles linked to on this page- http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php

But back to the graph at the bottom of your post.  I wanted to address it because it just looks wrong.  Not the numbers are wrong or it&#039;s wrong because I don&#039;t agree with your position, but wrong as a graph.  Look at the red trend line.  Before 2005 it&#039;s steady, the wild variations of individual data points don&#039;t make it jump around.  After 2005 it&#039;s following the data points almost exactly.  The red line is based upon average anomalies over a given period, but it looks like the averaging was done over a far shorter period post &#039;05 than pre.  If the average reacts that drastically to a dip in the recorded anomalies then it should also have kicked sharply up for the El Nino year of 1998 and less sharply down for 1985 (La Nina) and 1993 (Pinatubo volcano).

Basically I think someone has fudged the post 2005 trendline.  Or, more bluntly, I think that graph is a lie.  I&#039;d recommend checking it&#039;s provenance before using it again.  For graphs of temperature change created from publicly available figures you could try http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Temperature_Gallery</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links, but I couldn&#8217;t find the graph in your post or the figures used in it.  You should know that a number of the theories championed by Easterbrook have been examined and shown to be lacking.</p>
<p>For example- Mid century cooling- <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/03/what-about-mid-century-cooling.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/03/what-about-mid-century-cooling.php</a> &#8211; CO2 isn&#8217;t the only thing controlling the planet&#8217;s temperature, during this period the global dimming effect of particulates overwhelmed it.  Various other of his arguments, such as that it&#8217;s a natural cycle or all down to sun spot activity- and several other points- are addressed in articles linked to on this page- <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php</a></p>
<p>But back to the graph at the bottom of your post.  I wanted to address it because it just looks wrong.  Not the numbers are wrong or it&#8217;s wrong because I don&#8217;t agree with your position, but wrong as a graph.  Look at the red trend line.  Before 2005 it&#8217;s steady, the wild variations of individual data points don&#8217;t make it jump around.  After 2005 it&#8217;s following the data points almost exactly.  The red line is based upon average anomalies over a given period, but it looks like the averaging was done over a far shorter period post &#8216;05 than pre.  If the average reacts that drastically to a dip in the recorded anomalies then it should also have kicked sharply up for the El Nino year of 1998 and less sharply down for 1985 (La Nina) and 1993 (Pinatubo volcano).</p>
<p>Basically I think someone has fudged the post 2005 trendline.  Or, more bluntly, I think that graph is a lie.  I&#8217;d recommend checking it&#8217;s provenance before using it again.  For graphs of temperature change created from publicly available figures you could try <a href="http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Temperature_Gallery" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Temperature_Gallery</a></p>
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		<title>By: William Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118906</link>
		<dc:creator>William Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118906</guid>
		<description>Whew! Took a while, Ian, didn&#039;t have the link saved, but, here: http://www.heartland.org/events/NewYork09/proceedings.html

The information comes from Don Easterbrook, you can read more of his stuff here: http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dbunny/research/global/index.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew! Took a while, Ian, didn&#8217;t have the link saved, but, here: <a href="http://www.heartland.org/events/NewYork09/proceedings.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.heartland.org/events/NewYork09/proceedings.html</a></p>
<p>The information comes from Don Easterbrook, you can read more of his stuff here: <a href="http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dbunny/research/global/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dbunny/research/global/index.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: William Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118897</link>
		<dc:creator>William Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118897</guid>
		<description>I have to find the link, Ian. I have it somewhere on my personal laptop. Expect it later tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to find the link, Ian. I have it somewhere on my personal laptop. Expect it later tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Pattinson</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118896</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Pattinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118896</guid>
		<description>No, you&#039;re just predictable. Now, can I have the data?  If it proves what you&#039;re saying, then you have nothing to worry about.  If you won&#039;t release it, then I&#039;ll have to assume the graph is fudged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, you&#8217;re just predictable. Now, can I have the data?  If it proves what you&#8217;re saying, then you have nothing to worry about.  If you won&#8217;t release it, then I&#8217;ll have to assume the graph is fudged.</p>
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		<title>By: snaggletoothie</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118889</link>
		<dc:creator>snaggletoothie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118889</guid>
		<description>Ian
On the one hand you request more info.  But at the same time you start making baseless accusations.  I suspect that if you merely wanted data, you would not have launched into an argument before you even get the data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian<br />
On the one hand you request more info.  But at the same time you start making baseless accusations.  I suspect that if you merely wanted data, you would not have launched into an argument before you even get the data.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Pattinson</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118888</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Pattinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118888</guid>
		<description>Where do I get the numbers for that graph?  I just want to check the trend line because it looks completely wrong at the end.  I want to put the data into a spreadsheet and see what comes out.  Don&#039;t start telling me I&#039;ve been brainwashed, if you won&#039;t let me examine the data you&#039;re using to back up your assertions then you&#039;re doing exactly what you accuse the IPCC etc. of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where do I get the numbers for that graph?  I just want to check the trend line because it looks completely wrong at the end.  I want to put the data into a spreadsheet and see what comes out.  Don&#8217;t start telling me I&#8217;ve been brainwashed, if you won&#8217;t let me examine the data you&#8217;re using to back up your assertions then you&#8217;re doing exactly what you accuse the IPCC etc. of.</p>
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		<title>By: snaggletoothie</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/agw-today-playing-politics-and-burning-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-118886</link>
		<dc:creator>snaggletoothie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=23543#comment-118886</guid>
		<description>From Pundit and Pundette:  &quot;Pundit, who knows from science, was talking the other day about the irrational &quot;belief&quot; in global warming and the &quot;denier&quot; label that&#039;s applied to those who don&#039;t &quot;believe.&quot; Talk of belief has nothing to do with science, and the words belief and denier have no place in scientific discourse. Science is about data.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Pundit and Pundette:  &#8220;Pundit, who knows from science, was talking the other day about the irrational &#8220;belief&#8221; in global warming and the &#8220;denier&#8221; label that&#8217;s applied to those who don&#8217;t &#8220;believe.&#8221; Talk of belief has nothing to do with science, and the words belief and denier have no place in scientific discourse. Science is about data.&#8221;</p>
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