Apparently, Some People Still Care About Obama’s Birth Certificate
I know some folks in the blogosphere, particularly some secret progressives (who are completely intolerant towards other opinions, and are getting very weird, paranoid, and fascist themselves, as highlighted by this comment caught by LGF2.0 ,) like to denigrate the birth certificate movement, and, I’ll be honest, it might be time to move on, but, many apparently do actually care about whether someone is actually Constitutionally eligible to be president of these here United States. Joseph Farah, WND’s editor and chief executive officer
“(Obama) is a guy who has no trouble turning over sensitive documents from previous administrations, but he still refuses to release for public view something seemingly so innocuous as his own birth certificate,” said Farah. “This is a double-standard wide enough to sail the Queen Mary 2 through. Statements like this need to be challenged by a vibrant and free press. And that’s what our ‘Where’s the birth certificate?’ billboard campaign is all about.”
More than $35,000 has been raised in the first 72 hours of the national billboard campaign ($40K in the first 4 days) – and the first sign, an electronic one, is already up and online.
Farah, editor and chief executive officer of WND, said he’s calling it “the truth and transparency campaign.”
The first such sign to be posted under the 3-day-old campaign, a digital, electronic one, is up and online on Highway 165 in Ball, La. – the result of a donation by the owner. In addition, based on the heavy volume of financial donations in the first two days of the campaign, WND was able to commit to leasing two more standard billboards – one in Los Angeles and the other in Pennsylvania. It will take several weeks to get those billboards up because of the vinyl printing and shipping involved.
Of course, that kind of money is peanuts in comparison to what the Left can raise, but, then, trying to get conservatives together like that is like herding cats. We are just too much free spirits. So, $40k shows that folks actually do care.
Personally, I still take the position that Obama is eligible till proven not, but, again, why won’t he provide the actual BC? Not a certificate of live birth printed off in 2006, but a copy of what is sitting in the hospital’s records for all to see?
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Posted by William Teach on May 23, 2009 3:09 pm
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, Barack Obama, Conservatives, Constitution, Fraud/misrepresentation, News, Obama Birth Certificate, Politics As Usual, U.S. Constitution, Voter/Election Fraud
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59 Responses to “Apparently, Some People Still Care About Obama’s Birth Certificate”
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Please get this straight: Hawaiian officials have not validated AKA OBAMA’s place of birth. What they have said is that they “have the original document” on file. They haven’t offered a clue as to what information is in that document. They can not legally validate what is on that document without a court order or permission from “our” Chicago con-man. Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii. Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it. All a person had to do was file a false statement and Hawaii took them at their word.
One could not just say “My kid was born in Des Moines but I want him to have a Hawaiian birth record”. But if you lied no investigation was conducted to validate your claim and the Hawaiian birth record was issued no questions asked.
AKA Obama’s sister is also an American citizen even though it is documented that she was born in Indonesia. It is suspected that AKA Obama’s mother lied to get both her children Hawaiian birth records. She knew how the system worked. As of this date there is no evidence of how Obama’s sister obtained her American citizenship.
Knowledge of this practice was wide spread and there are actually thousands of people who have Hawaiian birth records who were not born in Hawaii.
The Emperor of China, Sun Yat-sen was born on 12 November 1866 to a peasant family in the village of Cuiheng, China, but had a Hawaiian birth certificate and was officially a citizen of the United States. The wording on Sun Yat-sen’s Hawaiian birth certificate reveals that as an adult “has made application for a Certificate of Birth. And that it appears from his affidavit and the evidence submitted by witnesses that he was born in the Hawaiian Islands.” Appears? It also appears that AKA Obama and his sister were born in Hawaii but we know his sister was born in Indonesia and AKA Obama’s grandmother says he was born in Kenya.
The only way to know where AKA OBAMA was actually born is to view AKA OBAMA’s original birth certificate from 1961 to see what kind of birth certificate it is, and to examine what corroborating evidence supports what it says about AKA OBAMA’s alleged place of birth. If the birth was in a hospital, as AKA OBAMA has maintained, such evidence would be the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor who delivered him.
The Certification of Live Birth that was published on AKA OBAMA’s campaign web site is not a Birth Certificate. It is easy to tell the difference between the two types of documents. It is very likely that the COLB used by AKA OBAMA’s campaign is a fraudulent document. Several forensic document examiners have carefully scrutinized the COLB and declared it suspicious or an obvious forgery. The best evidence presented so far is from Ron Polarik, PhD.
Dr. Polarik writes: “There are laws on the books in Hawaii and the Federal Statutes that clearly spell out exactly what constitutes forgery, and in both Hawaii State Law and the Federal Statutes, the act of altering an official government document — even if it is just a facsimile of that document — constitutes forgery. The bogus COLB that Obama created is also considered to be a “false identification document, a felony forgery.” Dr. Polarik’s evidence is preserved online. There is also a YouTube video summary of the evidence.
Forensic document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines, a Former Federal Examiner with a long history of expert testimony in state and federal courts, has testified in an affidavit that states, in part:
After reviewing Dr. Polarik’s analysis, Sandra Lines says, “I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Dr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.” Sandra Ramsey Lines summary is posted at U. S. Law Blog.
Aristotle the Idiot wouldn’t know a fact if s/he ever saw one. For starters, Sun Yat-Sen was a Chinese revolutionary, not emperor. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen as his mother was a US citizen, whether or not he was born in Hawaii. Of course, you idiots are free to waste you money on frivolous causes. Why not look into something serous, like the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield war crimes?
I agree wholeheartedly with this campaign; however, it is hard to believe that the first paragraph of this article was written by an editor. Poor grammar and punctuation weaken an argument as surely as any lack of facts.
tom krauthammer,
Fact 1) For Barack to have his citizzenship passed from his mother she would have to a US Citizen for 10 years, 4 of those after the age of 15.
Fact 2) Barack was in fact a British citizen at birth by decent of his father. The British Nationality Act of 1948. Part II Citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Citizenship by birth or descent. 5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth:
Fact 3) The Hawaii State Government for puposes of a land grant for natives DO NOT accept the COLB that Zero pasted on-line. They require the real one.
You can read that here Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands. http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
Tom,
You would be jumping out of your skin if the GOP had some guy with unproven docs in as President. So the “get over it” or “move on” argument does not work.
Let’s try this:
Just produce the docs?
School records from Occidental College are being locked up. Really? Is that secret info?
Why can’t we see the undergraduate school records of the acting President?
It would take 5 minutes to put all this speculation to rest. Yet the BHO camp refuses to do so. What are your thoughts on that?
Obama is a total Chicago fraud….factoid!
He will destroy the U.S. before our very eyes! Every judge who refuses to review those lawsuits should be deported to Gantanimo. Obama was & still is a British subject. Ho Humm, these are the facts & our elected officials don’t give a [edited]. Barry Soetoro is no laughing matter. The joke is that he wants a New World Order like Rockefeller & his swine pool. America is now a fascist state. Sadly, our politicians stand idle & watch without whispering any derogatory words afraid of loosing their job.
Good bye America…Hellow IMF & the new WORLD ORDER! BUCK FARAK!
Old Russian saying…You can tell same lie 1000 time but not change truth!
Difference between USSR Communist media and USA “mainstream media”
In Russia government make media say what they want – even if lie.
In USA “mainstream media” try make government what they want – even if lie..
…..eventually they become same thing?!
I Igor produce Obama Birth Certificate at http://www.igormaro.org
Well no one can change the Constitution. (at least not yet) Article 2. Section 1. paragraph 5. still says that any President has to be a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN to hold that office. Contrary to what the many internet Obots post, being simply an American Citizen is not enough to qualify for the job. If his mother was old enough to transfer her American Citizenship to her new born son at birth, that would not make him Natural Born. If he could somehow prove that he was born in Hawaii, that would not make him Natural Born. All either of these situations could possibly do, if they were to be proven TRUE, is to make him simply a “Citizen” of the United States of America, “Not Natural Born”. His father WAS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AT THE TIME OF HIS BIRTH. His Father never became an American Citizen. His father was a British Citizen being that Kenya was a British Colony. The British Nationality Act of 1948 states that his father being a British Citizen transfers his British Citizenship to all his children at their birth no matter where they are born. So, Obama Jr, was born a British Citizen, and this fact prevents him from ever being considered a Natural Born American Citizen. Constitutionally he can not be President. Obots can scream he is a Citizen, on count of this or that unproven statement, but they can never honestly state that he is a Natural Born American Citizen if they understand the difference between “Citizen” and what “Natural Born American Citizen” really means.
Tony Blair can never be President of the United States, he was born a Brit. So was Barack Hussein Obama Jr.
Obama was born in Hawaii. Sorry, but he was.
to jkm: No, Obama was NOT born in Hawaii. Sorry. All the evidence points elsewhere. No one in their right mind spends over $1.2 MILLION to NOT show proof of natural-born status.
Get over it.
How can you post that jkm? Can you not read? It doesn’t matter if was born on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. He was and never can be eligible.
Sorry, guys. You got nothing on this one. Try as you might, you have not come up with anything, not one single piece of evidence, law, or document that disproves Obama’s natural born citizenship.
You can’t just quote a few “Facts” about Chinese history and British Law and say that you’ve presented evidence. That evidence has to be applicable to the specific case of the Obama birth certificate/citizenship. It is simply not pertinent.
But have fun. I know that the real reason you hate Obama is because Rush or Hannity or Beck has TOLD YOU TO! Of course, not only do they have their own set of “facts”, they’ll tell you not to listen to any other media outlets! “The mainstream/drive by media is all leftist” they’ll tell you. And like the sheeple you are, you believe it. Get your facts and news from many sources.
If you want to eject Obama from the White House based on ineligibility, you’re gonna have to actually come up with something better than a wacko conspiracy theory!
The universe belongs to God our Father, man put boundaries, put it simply, like it or not, God put Obama in that position. Man says it is impossible, God says all things are possible with me. Joseph was not an Egyptian but God made him Prime Minister of Egypt. When Obama announced running for Presidency, he was a nobody, he could not compet against e.g the Clinton machine and everybody thought it as a joke and it would never happen, but God was in charge, it happened, it is called divine appointment, destiny, the devil can delay someone’s destiny but he can never stop it so scream as much as you can, waste as much money as you can, do ALL that you can possibly do trying to prove his eligiblity, post as many posters as you can, mount the greatest campaign you can possibly put together etc, call him a chicago Fraud, do all the name calling, God has made it perfectly clear, birth cerifcate or no birth certificate, Obama became, is and will continue to be the President of the USA for the next 8 years, like it or not. It is part of his destiny, God Almighty’s plan for his life. Why do you think the world loves him, other world leader fall over each other just to have a picture with him, even the Queen of England fell in love with him, he is good looking, he has chrisma, he is witty, he has a good aura, this is all part of God package. The world has changed, has moved on, utilise your money & time on worthy causes, there is alot to be doe. It is already a done deal. Those with sense have accepted it and moved on, so move on.
Wow! Hey there chim, what you smokin?
Wow, First of all I only “hate” my x. I can read and in Obama’s book and on his website and on factcheck he admits his father was a Kenyan. Now I have no idea how he got this far but I for one want this resolved.
Its simple, if Obama had all his documents in perfect order he would release them. Smart as he is he and his handlers are tgey know the battles to fight, its a gimme to show the documents and if he could he would. Sorry Obama-noids , hes guilty of something and we will find out.
Tangible is the operative word. Enough people including a few of legal experts have asked to see the original. It would be noteworthy to let an unbiased review that could be documented by all parties concerned. That would end the dispute and bring no cloud of questions. Kind of like a title search! In fact it would give the Right Wing a black eye for creating such a stir, now wouldn’t that be like Dan Rather getting chastised for his absurdities. Just a suggestion but of course 400,000 petition signing people could all be just plain stupid and lazy. I hope the bluff is working because the ante is getting bigger. One side is going to lose a lot. Since you are so brave and free play the hand or just be the braggart cowards you seem to be! Show your hand.
Lesson in history: “MLK was a Republican, Lincoln was Republican, and the KKK originated from Democrats.” It was Republicans that set out to end slavery; the Democrats wanted it to continue! Today Democrats keep people poor then give them hand outs to get re-elected! Obama supporters have no idea to ask Obama WHERE’S YOUR VAULT BIRTH CERTIFICATE? REPUBLICANS to the rescue (checks & balances) NOPE!!! They nor the TV media did nothing to stop the Obama a/k/a Barry Soetoro HOAX! America, make your next votes be to vote THEM ALL OUT!
I am glad to be among the few who can see Obama for who he really is. I have made it clear way before his presidential run. I have lived the street life and saw the distruction that people such as this man claims to have organized. In most cases the animals refuse to live there. People have been blinded by the desire to have the evil of the streets put into the white house. They got their wish and they are going to have their disappointing day. I have a saying for these people who think that Bush was the tip of their problem, and that is stupid has been rewarded. You now have the biggest group of stupid people in Washington that has ever been assembled but that is not the half of it . They made clear their goals from the start and we now have the worlds biggest group of stupid voters in 2009 ever assembled in America. They are angry hateful and full of deception and evil towards anyone who disagrees their view. Their narrow minds claim to have tolerance for everyone and yet they cannot deal with the reality that our constitution was established to deal with being American Born. I personally do not believe that we have a legal President as of yet and I can tell you that many on the streets feel the same way.
The next thing is for all of those who voted out of anger and for some kind handout, you have just been handed the biggest form of slavery in the history of America. And for those who voted out of feeling guilty you have just given support to the ones who use to wear the sheets over their heads- you should be proud of your accomplishments.
My ancestors can tell you things that history never recorded from the reservation. How the Democrats created a new system of slavery which has no end in sight. Just remember that small voices gave you the warning while you are full of pride for the Obama -Klan, but someday soon you will have to face the reality that this administration will go down in history as the most Destructive group of leaders the USA will ever known.
I see very little hope for those who continue to defend the actions of the Godless minded group of people
in charge of our nation. It appears that I must get back to writing my book, I am hoping that it will sell to stupid voters which have very little knowledge of our history, trained in public schools, work for unions and who have become mainstream suckers.
Enjoy your unhappy life and your sack of whatever . Oh! remember me when you’re standing in the food lines waiting for promises of hope and change. I would also advise you Obama fans to take a look at the communities which Obama has talked about. Your community may be next. Can you not see?
The difference is, I look forward to the destruction by the Democrats, while many try to blame it on Bush.
Lets see I’ll give all of the presidents a debt of 2 trillion
and I give Obama a debt of 20 trillion. fair enough?
I also give him control of the auto jobs, and payback of the unions, and i’ll take away the private business. is that fair? you see even some as stupid as i am can figure this out. so who the real idiots?
For all of you Left winged extremists, Obama
should have proven his place of birth (IF HE COULD) but he will not because he KNOWS where he was born and he KNOWS he would be impeached. The only IDIOTS yet to admit it are YOU!!! (THE LEFT WINGED MORONS) You are morons for knowing better and yet still doing what is wrong. Secondly Obama is half white so why do you still call him the first black president. He is not the first black president. He is a MUTT. Like the rest of us. He is just another white democrat. I would rather have had Hillary then him. Obama will not rest till Kenya is has a wealthier economy then the United States.
Do not believe anything that comes from a Democrats mouth. Liars!!!!
People didn’t even give it a second thought when this man was running for office, because we all thought the ones responsible for making sure he was a natural born American citizen had already been taken care of. I surely don’t know how this got past them unless it is written in history that this is the direction we are suppose to be going. I believe it was since Nixon was president that we have been strongly headed towards the One World Government and it can not be stopped; anyway, that I know of.
marsminute on May 25th, 2009 2:13 pm Sorry, guys. You got nothing on this one. Try as you might, you have not come up with anything, not one single piece of evidence, law, or document that disproves Obama’s natural born citizenship.
ihv>> darn right we dont.. and neither do you… and THATS THE ISSUE.. if this idiot is natural born and went to college as a natural born american why the h^%& doesnt he simply show me and you?
the ans is he cant… he is a cheat and a liar, learning from the best murderers and cheats in illinois.
will
I understand your argument about Hawaii’s officials who’ve testified that records exist (though unreleased to the public or the courts) verifying Obama’s American birth. None of the so-called “evidence” of Obama’s Constitutional eligibility produced thus far is beyond reasonable doubt nor as iron-clad as simply producing an authentic birth certificate, something ‘average Americans’ are required to do regularly, but Obama still refuses to do. The main reason doubts persist regarding Obama’s birth certificate is this question: If an original Hawaii-doctor-generated and Hawaii-hospital-released Obama birth certificate exists, why wouldn’t the president simply order the document released and end the controversy? That Obama has not ordered Hawaii officials to release the document leaves doubts as to whether an authentic Hawaii birth certificate exists.
The issue is too big to ignore any longer, so now a wider section of the left wing bias media is casting the usual insults and jeers since they cannot rationally contest the claims of ineligibility; no matter, as long as they cover it. The serious financial trouble the ‘news’ media itself is in says it all. Believe it or not, THE PEOPLE’S eyes are beginning to open, and they can more clearly see what’s been going on. When I first heard of this issue my reaction was similar; OK, another conspiracy. But as I have a habit of looking at facts, I ultimately had to agree with the position that there is definitely a question here. And the fact that Obama has spent such a huge sum of money to try to avoid complying with the Constitutional requirement says very clearly he has something to hide.
It is also interesting to note that all the other candidates were vetted by Congress, but Obama, who has far more questionable components to his birth legitimacy, was given a pass by Congress. Why; why would you not require the same inquisition standards of Obama?
Now our active duty and retired service men are finally being heard by joining law suits requesting proof. If anyone deserves genuine evidence it’s our servicemen and women! Here is a quote from one of them that all American’s should agree with: “Until Mr. Obama releases a ‘vault copy’ of his original birth certificate for public review, I will consider him neither my Commander in Chief nor my President, but rather, a usurper to the Office – an impostor.”
It seems to me that those who wanted him in could care less whether or not our Constitution is upheld. They don’t even seem to care what the violations might be as long as “that one” has the reins. Personally, as an American, I can not imagine political circumstances that could be more damaging to our country; and everyday you let this abomination fester you help to demoralize and destabilize our nation. Please join us in demanding authentic proof.
This really worries me and has me very upset.
I just can’t see why someone hasn’t checked all this out. Were they so caught up in the Obama worship that they had their eyes closed? Please Obama, you are the president, please open your records because it only adds to our fears when you fight to keep those records closed. Bills are being passed in congress now to prevent you from having to open records you don’t want to. Do the democrats know something we dont’ know? How can we ever trust you? You can have lots more of our support if you would just do this because until you do, you will never have my support. I hate watching your speeches with your reading the teleprompter, you seem such a phoney and all I think when I see you is that you aren’t our president until you show the proof. Please do this, it is dividing us more than ever. The left has no argument on this the facts are on the right’s side. God help us. Please pray for America.
Aside from where he is born is the question of what his current citizenship is.
When Stanley Ann Durham, Obama’s mother remarried she took little Barry to Indonesia with her. Stanley’s new husband an Indonesian Muslim promptly adopted little Barry. That made little Barry a Muslim citizen of Indonesia. Now back in those days Indonesia did not allow dual citizenships so whatever previous citizenship little Barry had he had to give up and become soley an Indonesian citizen.
In the early 80s Barrak aka Barack Hussein Obama became a student at Occidental college from 1979-81, where his records from there remain sealed. In 1981 after graduating from Occidental Hussein traveled to Pakistan. Now in 1981 the U.S. State Department did not permit U.S. citizens to travel to Pakistan. Also in 1981 Pakistan did not allow non-Muslims to enter their country.
So we know that Hussein attended Occidental as a foreign student; i.e. Indonesian and was an Indoneian citizen through 1981. Husssein has never shown a U.S. passport for his trip to Pakistan.
So the question is: When did Hussein become a naturalized citizen? Even if he had been born in the U.S. since he gave up his U.S. citizenship to become an Indonesian citizen Hussein would have had to become a U.S. naturalized citizen subsequent to 1981 to be in America legally and to sit as POTUS regardless of where he was born.
Hussein has never provided any documentation indicating that he became a naturalized U.S. citizen after 1981.
Most likely he is still an Indonesian Muslim citizen and an American illegal alien
The truth will come out eventually! It always does. Take a look at Nixon (Watergate), the Clintons (Whitewater and Lewinski), Hart (affair), Edwards (affair), Kerry (Swiftboat Vets), and the list goes on even today as you look around the world and see the Nazis being found and prosecuted. It will come out about Obama too. In Biblical days the truth always came out as well. Take a look at Cain (murder/Abel) David (adultery/Bathsheba), Joseph (kidnapping/brothers), Esther (Haaman/murder), Peter (lies/denial), Judas (betrayal/Jesus), etc., etc. All of these different instances show that the TRUTH always comes out no matter who you are (even if a friend of God). I think it is a God thing! He doesn’t tolerate sin for long especially from those in high places it seems. Obama may think he is getting away with something but I have news for him. He will be exposed and it will be God who does it because He wants O. to know that He is the One who sets up and He is the One who puts down. O. and his friends can conive and scheme and think they have the world by the tail but God will bring him/them down. Watch and see!
This is the first time I have actually paid attention to web chatter. After reading all of the above what upsets me the most that this discussion is about our present president. When a presidential candidate first submits all of the paperwork stating the intention to run for that office, isn’t there a committee or some organization (there is one for everything else) that validates the candidate? Who is responsible for this mess, along with AKA Obama? Good grief what a mess. It’s beyond me why our illustrious POTUS doesn’t just end all the controversy and chatter. Any sane person would and should. Common sense tells me that if he could end it he would. Since apparently he is unable to, whoever accepted him as a Presidential candidate should be called before the Congress to answer these questions, along with AKA Obama.
Below are two official emails that dispute the public version of Obama’s Birth and his mother’s marriage to BHO Sr.
From: pubrec@u.washington.edu [mailto:pubrec@u.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008
Subject: Re: Stanley “Ann” Dunham 1960 to 1970 class registration
Ms. Stanley Ann Dunham (BHO II’s mom) was enrolled at the University of Washington for:
Autumn 1961
Winter 1962
Spring 1962
The records responsive to your request from the University of Washington are above as provided by the Public Disclosure Laws of Washington State. This concludes the University’s response to your Public Records request. Please feel free to contact our office if you have any questions or concerns.
Madolyne Lawson
Office of Public Records
206-543-9180
From: Stuart Lau [mailto:stuartl@hawaii.edu]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Inquiry
The University of Hawaii at Manoa is only able to provide the following information for Stanley Ann Dunham:
Dates of attendance:
Fall 1960 (First day of instruction 9/26/1960)
Spring 1963 – Summer 1966
Fall 1972 – Fall 1974
Summer 1976
Spring 1978
Fall 1984 – Summer 1992
Degrees awarded:
BA – Mathematics, Summer 1967 (August 6, 1967)
MA – Anthropology, Fall 1983 (December 18, 1983)
PhD – Anthropology, Summer 1992 (August 9, 1992)
Sincerely, Stuart Lau
****************************************
Stuart Lau
University Registrar
Office of Admissions and Records
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Ph: (808) 956-8010
****************************************
Commentary on University Emails:
For the BHO II Hawaiian Aug 4 1961 COLB to be accurate the following improbable events needed to occur:
1 month after starting classes, Stanley Ann Dunham, Barack’s mom, at age 17, got pregnant by the only black African man on the entire chain of Hawaiian islands.
2 months after getting pregnant, she drops out of college.
3 months after getting pregnant, she marries BHO Sr.
10 months after her first day at the U of HI, she delivers BHO II and immediately leaves her parents, her new husband, and her home, to fly alone with a newborn 2800 miles to Seattle to start college at the U of W.
Stanley Ann Dunham does not return to Hawaii until AFTER BHO Sr left the islands for Harvard.
This is an implausible series of events made even more nefarious because Obama II in his 2 bio books never mentions his mom left Hawaii when she was married to BHO Sr, nor does he mention she was in Washington State during this time.
Barack’s sister was born in Indonesia, and has a COLB from Hawaii like Obama II. She is NOT a “Natural Born Citizen” of the USA as required by the Constitution to become president…and Obama probably isn’t either.
Even if Barack Obama WAS born in Hawaii to a mother who was an American citizen … he is still NOT a “natural born citizen” according to the historical definitions thereof…. those being :
1. From Emerich DeVattel’s Laws of Nations (frequently consulted during the raising of this nation by Congress) according to Ben Franklin’s letter to Charles W.F. Dumas 1775, Vattel defined natural born citizen as ” natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents (plural) who are citizens.”
2. According to Sen. John A Bingham (the chief writer of the 14th Amendment on citizenship) “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of America of parents (plural) not owing allegiance to any foriegn sovereignty is, in the language of your Consitution itself, a natural born citizen.”
So once you truly understand the historical definition of natural born citizen, and you already know that Barack Obama’s father was a Kenyan and NOT a U.S. citizen…..
Then you KNOW beyond any reasonable doubt that Barack Obama is NOT and never has been a “natural born citizen” of the USA.
And therefore, he does not qualify under the words of the Constitution to seek and hold the office of President of the USA.
Period. End of Story.
Any query into whether or not Obama is a natural born citizen ought to begin with the definition of natural born citizen. This is obviously a problem, since the definition does not appear in the Constitution.
One thing is clear. The Constitution does distinguish between citizen and natural born citizen. A member of Congress can be a citizen, but the President must be a natural born citizen. So any definition of “natural born citizen” must be different from “citizen”.
It is also clear from the historical records that the framers of the natural born citizenship clause wanted the President, who is also commander in chief, to be someone who has complete allegiance to the United States and is free of any foreign influence.
What better way to assure that status from birth than to require that the President be born on U.S. soil to parents who are both U.S. citizens?
In fact, that is the definition that some Constitutional scholars have determined is the definition of natural born citizen – one who is born on U.S. soil to parents who are both U.S. citizens.
By this definition, Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen even if he was born in Hawai’i because his father was a Kenyan native who was a British citizen at the time of Obama’s birth. Obama inherited his father’s citizenship and was therefore a British citizen at birth. This is documented on his web site:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
The fact that this definition has not been adjudicated in any court of law leaves the definition legally undefined.
“tom krause on May 24th”
Please do not proselytize when you do not know the law. Nobama’s mother being a citizen does in no way make him a “Natural Born Citizen”. It makes you look like a “door knob”
For those of you who have not seen Igor’s web site, I can guarantee you the best laugh you will have in weeks.
http://www.igormaro.org
Marty
CT
Per “old1 on May 24th, 2009 6:23 pm”
Well no one can change the Constitution. (at least not yet)
Article 2. Section 1. paragraph 5. still says that any President has to be a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN to hold that office.
Let’s keep it simple
Question – Is Obama a Natural Born American Citizen?
FACT 1 – To be classified as a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN Obama’s father needed to be an AMERICAN CITIZEN AT THE TIME OF Obama’s BIRTH
FACT 2 – His father was a citizen of Great Britain…the research need not continue beyond this known and I would guess provable fact.
STOP – Do not pass go, don’t collect $200.00
END of research….
ANSWER: No, Obama is not a Natural born American citizen
Don’t need school records, copies of live birth from Hawaii, mother’s track record across the US. Nada, nothing else is needed or required.
So America what is the next step?
Wouldn’t it be a sight to see? Obama removed from the White House in handcuffs for impersonating a natural born citizen. Is that treason? Then Biden, the fool takes over. Yikes!
The problem is that despite even Ben Franklin’s opinion on the matter, the term Natural Born Citizen is not defined in the Constitution. This is a grave deficiency, and must be resolved by the Supreme Court, if not by Amendment. It would have been far better had they gone with the original draft version of paragraph II.1.5 of the Constitution, which read, “No one shall be eligible for the office of President unless he be a citizen by birth or a citizen at the time of the adoption of this document.” If we interpret the Constitution that way, which is the most reasonable assumption, dual citizens are eligible provided they received American citizenship by birth.
Indeed, Obama is NOT a natural born citizen.
This Indonesian Muslim illegal alien (what is his actual name anyways) bogus president we have needs to be impeached, and ALL those complicit with his information and status coverup need worse than that–their actions are grossly fraudulent and approaching treasonous. So much for “transparency”. Deliberately ignoring with impunity the Constitutional requirements of the presidency–has this EVER happened before with ANY candidate? No Republican could EVER get away with this. Rediculous double standard. Hussein Obama “taught” Constitutional law–HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING AND THAT IT IS MORALLY WRONG AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL–he is simply obstructing justice with all kinds of legal trickery and so are all his crony handlers and so did our electors. Biggest coverup in history–and BHO is just a big con man. Never have I seen such a wholesale abandonment of true law and reason to appease the liberal left. BHO is a half white, 42% arab, 8% black impostor president (that is, just another mostly white lefty liberal, and quite possibly an illegal alien)–and until I see the ORIGINAL birth Certificate I’ll have good legal and intellectual cause to believe that. I can hear the lefties sreaming now..no that’s not a racist comment I made, it’s a factual one based upon reasonable doubt–the same standard our legal system uses. If this Birth Certificate truth ever sees the light of day with any degree of objectivity by the mainstream media and in what little remains of our “true to the Constitution” legal institutions, it should spell the END of the Democratic party and we’ll need to build alot more jails to incarcerate these lawbreakers. Now that’s change I can believe in.
The Establishment has made the decision….
The Main Stream Media is following orders along with the U.S. Congress and the final decision is “MOB RULES.”
As Kissinger reported: “With Obama in control the New World Order is underway….
We stupid Americans have no chance, we are Americans are doomed.
And Hussein Obama actually had the b*lls to lie with impunity and say
“I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable…”
Does this guy actually have to account for ANYTHING he says? Has the media just become his own cheerleading and brute squad with thrills running down all their legs? Amazing. They all need to be swept out–now THAT’S change I can believe in.
FoxNews was told to drop this story. Hmmmm. Wonder why?
Could it be it’s hitting too close to home? Someone must really be worried. Where’s Glenn Beck and Hannity and Bill O’Rielly when you need them? I guess they fear losing their jobs. Check out this story
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3320/pub_detail.asp
All Obama had to do was produce the information required at the onset of his candidacy. He did not. We, as citizens, became aware of this fact over a year ago and have been requesting that he comply. He has not. He has paid more than one legal firm to keep his records sealed. He has spent well over a million dollars in legal fees to keep this information from the public…information that he could have produced for the sum of about $10.00
It seems reasonable to assume at this point that our elected candidate is a usurper in the office of POTUS.
Bambo probably doesn’t know the difference between truths and lies anymore. He just says what the teleprompter tells him then goes and does what the FED tells him (usually the opposite of what he says). I believe he is an illegal alien and should be deported with his auntie. But, he is working at break neck speeds to keep us too buried in muck to fight the real issues. Bambo truly hates us and is out to ruin everything we have.
Get your facts straight Marsminute and Chim!
Remember, it was Hillary Clinton who raised the birth certificate issue on Barack Obama AKA Barry Soetoro early last year during the Primary campaigns, not members of the Republican Party.
I have a question that has been bothering me ever since I read about the illegal President of the USA. (Not only is he not a natural born citizen he forged his selective service documentation which has been proven to be a forgery just like his COLB.)
When did Barry Soetoro legally change his name to Barrack Hussein Obama?
s name?
If Obama is not eligible to be president Biden would not be VP. None of his appointees would be legitimate. We would have to have a special election and every piece of legislation he has signed would be worthless – No?
I am not American, nor do I live in the USA.
I do not understand, if it is common knowledge, that anyone can obtain a certificate of live birth from Hawaii, why wasn’t he asked for his birth certificate to start with? I am told this is law?
I’d like to know, who is covering up what? And Why?
Why too is he being called an African/American?
I thought that term was reserved for people of slave heritage, his father certainly wasn’t American. !!
Actually, Sail1993, if Obama was removed because he did not qualify Constitutionally, he never WON the election, and under precedent the winner with the next highest number of electoral votes–JOHN MCCAIN–wins. Remember, not natural born, never qualified to run…election rules preside and all his fool handlers are outta there as a result of their failed coup d’etat. Now THAT’s change I can believe in.
Lastly, Remember, this current president/government is really a coup d’etat–his campaign (and the sycophantic slobbering MSM) conspired directly or through silence of the truth (not reporting legitimate stories/complicity)to assert Hussein’s eligibility for the Presidential office to which is not Constitutionally entitled–also Hillary brought it up first.. well said. Put more simply, we have outright criminals in the White House and in the electoral college and in Hussein’s campaign staff.
To Tom Krause: Tom get your facts straight before you post. At best, if proven by verifiable documentation, Obama/Soetoro could only be a US citizen; never and “natural born citizen” as defined in the United States Constitution, since his mother, if a US citizen, could only bestow upon her son US citizenship because his father was a citizen of Kenya and a United Kingom subject. To be a “Natural Born Citizen” both parents, at birth, must be US citizens and own no other allegence. Check the constitution and become further educated.
Have a good day!
Shirlee — You are right on point with your questions and assumptions. You understand more than most people who are US citizens; as demonstrated by the last general election.
Thanks for sharing you input and insight.
Re: “Fact 3) The Hawaii State Government for puposes of a land grant for natives DO NOT accept the COLB that Zero pasted on-line. They require the real one.”
Indeed they do. But what happens when the person has lost the original? According to the Department of Health of Hawaii, they no longer send out copies of the original. They only send out the Certification of Live Birth, which is what Obama posted, and what is sent out to anyone who asks for a copy of his birth certificate these days.
So, I asked DHHL about this, meaning what would a person do if they lost the original and could only get the certification, and they told me that they will accept the Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth in Hawaii and then try to use other documents to prove race.
I have read, though I cannot confirm, that when there is no way to get the original from the applicant (since she or he losst it), they then go over to the Department of Health and look into the file and see the original. (Which they can do, since they are members of the government, but the file is considered private to members of the public.)
BUT the fact is that this department will accept the Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth in Hawaii as ALL departments in Hawaii do, and as the US State Department and US Military branches do. The Certification of Live Birth is a legal document, and indeed it is the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out to people who ask for copies of their birth certificates.
This Conservative blogger based in Hawaii confirms that everyone in Hawaii who asks for a birth certificate gets the Certification of Live Birth:
Quotes:
Hawai’ Free Press
Thursday, November 06, 2008
Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
By Andrew Walden :: 3258 Views
By Andrew Walden
A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama’s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama’s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.
Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement. (Correction: Both papers printed an identical list of birth announcements supplied to them by the Hawaii State Department of Health.)
End Quote
Stress: “Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health.”
Nice try smrstrauss. But, that doesn’t explain why Obama has spent all the money defending the dozens of lawsuits. Or why he has had his records sealed at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard. Also doesn’t explain why when people went to Kenya and spoke to his Paternal Grandmother why she indicated she was present at his birth in Kenya.
Thanks Jim for your kind words.
I agree with the last post too.
In my book, people only cover things up, when they have something they don’t want people to see, or to know
I am so glad that in this country, (Australia) our media would never get away with what they did in the US, at the last election.
In general we NEED to know more and query much more than you do
marsminute: “…you have not come up with anything…that disproves Obama’s natural born citizenship.—-THE burden of proof of citizenship falls on Obama – which he refuses to do.
chim: “…God put Obama in that position…”
—UH, no, left-wing America haters put Obama in that position – they knew full well his status and what they were doing.
truth: “…I just can’t see why someone hasn’t checked all this out. Were they so caught up in the Obama worship that they had their eyes closed?…”—THE ones that did this had their eyes wide open. Obama caught their attention early on, and he appeared to be the perfect (Manchurian) candidate to usher in the New World Order as “President”, to cut America off at the knees and make her no better than 3rd world countries.
Newgenots: “…When a presidential candidate first submits…the intention to run for that office, isn’t there a committee…that validates the candidate?…”—NO, there is not, and until now, it wasn’t a problem. Rep. Bill Posey, R-Fla., filed H.R. 1503 to solve the problem – but of course, the Dems are against it! They want to bring in illegal aliens for future Dem voters, and don’t want to run into a vetting brick wall if they ever “discover” another Obama.
Jonathan: “…This Indonesian Muslim illegal alien…bogus president we have needs to be impeached…”—ACTUALLY, BO is only eligible to be yanked out of the Oval Office by the scruff of his neck, arrested, tried and sentenced. Having not ever legally held the office of POTUS, no impeachment required!
Linda: “…FoxNews was told to drop this story. Hmmmm. Wonder why?”—FOX was threatened by BO’s Saudi Arabia backers that if Fox airs anything resembling the eligibility issue, they (Saudi Arabia) will pull their corporate shares (Saudi Arabia owns 19% of Fox). We should never sell any part of our media to foreigners – else they are able to dictate what we hear!
elsmitro: “…he is working at break neck speeds to keep us too buried in muck to fight the real issues…”—I believe BO is working at breakneck speed, because he thinks the deeper his fingers have reached into America’s issues, the more likely We the People will just say, ‘Oh, what the hell, let’s just let him stay in there, look how much he’s done” when he’s found out to be a fraud.
Shirlee: “…why wasn’t he asked for his birth certificate to start with?…who is covering up what?…Why too is he being called an African/American?…”—-BO was not only NOT asked to present his bc, he was asked to conceal it. Palestinian-terrorist-turned-Columbia Univ. professor Rashid Khalidi was one of the lefties who identified Obama years ago, along with George Soros, as a potential change agent, to change “arrogant” America into a 3rd world country via the New World Order. (Google them and see their relationship with Obama.) They picked Obama, and groomed him by paying for his education, because he was “black”, and thus could get away with actions that a white candidate could not – anyone who opposed him risked being called a racist – so they would be intimidated to let him work his evil. But, best of all, he wasn’t “too black”. If he “looked” and sounded black, he wouldn’t get elected, evidenced by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. So, he was a perfect pick. You are correct, he is not African-American, he’s mostly Black Arab. He’s descended from slave OWNERS, not slaves. But the Dems prefer to tout him as African-American, because it helps to assuage their own white liberal guilt, as THEY are descended from slave owners, too.
smrstrauss: “…Quotes: Andrew Walden of Hawai’ Free Press writes: “…the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth….”—-I’VE seen that announcement, and it says nothing about the location of Obama’s birth – which is the sole issue here. The announcement gives the date, the parents’ names, their street address, and the fact that it was a boy born to them. It says nothing about him being born in Hawaii or anywhere else. BTW, Hawaii is a welfare state, and that’s why they issue a certification of live birth to everyone and their dog, whether they were born in Hawaii or not. That way, Hawaii gets more Gov’t money for welfare, which is based on population.
This is an interesting article on the issue
New bid to unseal Obama’s birth certificate
Challenge claims Hawaii waived privacy by talking about document
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99437
Re: “But, that doesn’t explain why Obama has spent all the money defending the dozens of lawsuits. Or why he has had his records sealed at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.”
First, he hasn’t spent any money, not one cent, on defending dozens of lawsuits asking for his birth certificate. All the lawsuits were to stop the election or to stop the certification of the election, which Obama naturally opposed, and I agree with him. None of the lawsuits were for his birth certificate or even for his Occidental records. One case asked for them, but this was only in support of the main goal, which was to have the election nullified.
Re: “why he has had his records sealed at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.”
Answer: They aren’t sealed. They are private, like all college records. My college records are private, and I am glad about it, and I understand that the college records of such old presidents as FDR and JFK are still private at Harvard, and not even historians can look at them.
Privacy–good.
He could, of course, voluntarily make his records public. But that was something to ask for during the election campaign. He doesn’t have to now. And it might even be a bad thing to voluntarily disclose them. That would be setting a precedent in which future presidents have to show their records.
Re: The grandmother. She didn’t say that Obama was born in Kenya. She said very clearly if you listen to the complete tape that he was born in Hawaii. She says that right after the direct question: “Where was he born?” The answer she gave “Yes” was to the question: “Were you present WHEN (not where, and probably it is important) he (not clear who he refers to) was born.” I believe the Yes refers to her being in the family when he was born. Since the question had to be translated into an African language, no one really knows that “present when” means in that language. Perhaps it is as broad as was she in the family. She is only his step-grandmother, so she could have on her mind the question asking whether she had already been married to his grandfather at the time of birth.
In any case, the answer to the question: “Where was he born?” is very clear, and it is “Hawaii, America.”
Re: “-I’VE seen that announcement, and it says nothing about the location of Obama’s birth – which is the sole issue here. The announcement gives the date, the parents’ names, their street address, and the fact that it was a boy born to them.”
The announcement does not prove the location. It proves the date of the birth. It was not an advertisement. It was posted to the newspapers by the Hawaii Department of Vital Records (which it did with all births in Hawaii at that time). Abnd it appeared in the newspapers about 10 days after Obama was born.
(1) The Hawaii government only announced births in Hawaii in those notices; (2) at the time, Hawaii was not allowed to register foreign births, so the birth that was registered–Obama’s birth–had to be in Hawaii; (3) Because the notices in the newspaper appeared about 10 days after Obama was born, the birth certificate could not be a Certificate of Hawaiian birth or a certificate of delayed birth–both of which required delays, in some cases of a year. (4) At least one investigator has shown that if a child were born outside of a hospital, Hawaii required proof in the form of witnesses as to the location of birth.
This is the biggest collusive coverup of the century, and in our government’s history–he is the ultimate Manchurian candidate.
Obama is NOT natural born, and hence in violation of Constitutional law. But everyone says the emperor is clothed when he is not, like this article says:
http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/letters/archives/2008/12/was-obama-born.html
Welcome to Obamagate. Details forthcoming once the MSM is shamed and FORCED into covering them and they abandon their slobbering love affair with this half-white, 40+ percent Arab hard-left liberal that we truly know so little about (once again their fault) and start doing their jobs again instead of being cheerleaders for this ‘coup d’etat’-installed “President”.
Nobody should Hail the usurper in chief.
Follow the money yes, follow the money
And there’s plenty of money to follow, too, So much for promised transparency.
Smrstrauss, SOMEbody has been working hard and spending $ to put an end to the numerous cases filed in courts around the country trying to force B O to produce a certified copy of the real, long form original birth certificate. You can’t get around the fact that if he produced the document, this would go away, and that people who insist on hiding things generally have a reason for doing so, and need to do so to achieve their aims. And, by the way, there WERE people asking for this proof BEFORE the election, as you’d know if you were paying attention. I myself wrote to a few congressional and senatorial representatives requesting it be brought up–they DO swear to uphold the constitution, in their oaths, you know. There was public information that other people far more influential were also asking. Also, calling B O an African-American generated a whole lot of votes from people who paid no attention to anything but that. Calling him a mostly black Arab, or Muslim would not have generated nearly so many (there might be a fair number of blacks who actually do realize what a very big part Arabs/Muslims played in gathering their forefathers up and bring them to their slave markets to sell for transport), and plenty who were not happy with the idea of such a person being president after 9/11 who not have been unlikely to vote for him–obviously why he tried so hard to distance himself from all those old ties. I’d love to see his college records for several reasons.
To all posters; remember this, dispite all the Obama research; only one thing is important, he is not a “Natural Born Citizen”. Regardless of where he was born he does not qualify because his father was not a US Citizen at the time of his birth; his mother, if she met the requirements to bestow US Citizenship on her son at birth would only have made his a US Citizen since the requirements to be a “Natural Born Citizen” requires both parents, at the time of birth to be US Citizens to be able to establish natural born status as setforth in the United States Constitution and the Magna Carta. All the other issues if proved would make Obama either and illegal alien, a perjurer, an imposter, or all of the above. The criminal court would have a field day with this guy once he is out of office based on his concealed past. But don’t assume this is over even when his birt status is finally accepted, based on the facts stated above; he has his minions all over the country and abroad and they are not going to stand for anything that remotely represents his removal from power unless out congress and judiciary standup and take their oaths of office seriously. Beware, congress and the judiciary are right now, up to this point, complicit in this attempted cover up. The ground swell is growing, it takes time. This issue was brought up on a Fox affiliate in Ohio during the election and then quickly vanished from the media. Conspiracy, everyone likes lable those of us who truly believe there is a huge cover up here, but those that do lable us have the heads stuch firmly in the liberal sands of time. Tomorrow is the date for the case to come before the US District Court of New Jersey in Kerchner, etal v. Obama, etal after having had the case granted a 120 day extention to file which is 60 days beyond the norma 60 days to answer in the case of the government being involved. Let’s what happens at that hearing. US Attorney Taylor of the United States Attorney’s Office in DC suddenly resigned instead of issuing a Qua Warrnto against Obama. Strange to say the least. Sorry of any (sic)End!
Figures, DC US Attorney Taylor resigns and hence more obstruction and legal trickery to protect the false-messianic usurper in Chief. He cannot prove/validate his presidency under Quo Warranto, and he knows it, as does any thinking and Constitutional issue-knowledgable person, so to further the ruse that the naked Emperor is clothed, another resignation. MASS MEDIA–DO YOUR JOBS, YOUR REAL JOBS and REALLY interview this guy (and before you do that, please remove your faces and lips from the usurper prez’s rear). If not, thengo get some honest jobs.
Our Arab-american president needs to have his sellout media stooges and his smug press secretary and the judiciary and the legislature all cover for him. So much for all their oaths of office to protect and uphold the Constitution–and the usurper in Chief purjured himself when he took his oath.
As if (a grossly manipulated, thanks ACORN et al) 53% of the vote and some phony doctored up COLB actually takes the place of real proof of Natural born status. The stupidity of the electorate and the cowardice of our judiciary and legislatures is staggering. No Republican could ever exist and flourish as such–what a shameful double standard.
The usurper in chief says he won’t withhold information simply because it embarrasses the government. He said (verbatim quote), “I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable.”
liar liar….prove it. Tricky Hussein and his handlers undoubtedly will stall and stall some more and obstruct and ridicule all questioners. So much for transparency and “not hiding the truth” and change we can believe in–looks more like the same old Chicago-style dirty politics in a bogus hyper-liberal african american wrapper.
Re: “according to Ben Franklin’s letter to Charles W.F. Dumas 1775, Vattel defined natural born citizen as ” natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents (plural) who are citizens.”
Ben Franklin’s letter said “thank you for the book.” It did not say what Vattel said.
And Vattel did not say ” natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents (plural) who are citizens.”
He said: “Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.” And this merely means that natives of a country are the children of parents who are citizens. The phrase: “Natural Born Citizen” does not appear in Vattel until the translation of Vattel 100 years after the Constitution was adopted.
So, what were the framers thinking about when they wrote Natural Born Citizen? They were thinking of British common law, which used the term Natural Born Subject. But a natural born subject was merely someone who was born in the British realm. It did not require two parents who were subjects or even one parent who was. The only exception was the child of a foreign diplomat.
Editor’s note: That’s your opinion until you include supporting documentation!
Delighted.
Do the words “natural born citizen” in Article II mean anything other than what the USA uses to define a citizen at birth, someone who was merely born in the USA?
For this to be true, there would have to be something that proves that the writers of Article II were following the Vattel definition and not the British common law definition. There is nothing.
For example, the first use of Natural Born Citizen by an American at the time of the Constitution was John Jay’s letter to Washington, in which he said that the commander in chief should be a Natural Born Citizen. Fine. But Jay did not say that he meant Natural Born Citizen under the Vattel definition or under the British common law definition, which was as defined by Blackstone.
Since Jay was a lawyer and a jurist and the first US Supreme Court chief justice, we assume that he was familiar with the common law. So, when he said “Natural Born Citizen,” he was thinking of the British common law which uses the term “Natural Born Subject.” If he was thinking of Vattel, he could have said—a Natural Born Citizen as defined by Vattel, or with two US parents. But he did not. He did not define Natural Born Citizen—so what evidence is there that he wanted the “two parents plus born in the USA” definition?
Jay was one of the authors of the Federalist Papers. There is nothing that defines Natural Born Citizen in the Federalist papers. There is nothing in the Federalist Papers that even discusses the requirement that the president be a Natural Born Citizen.
Vattel, of course, would allow people who were not even citizens to be sovereigns of countries. He mentions several kings and emperors that were from other countries, and does not criticize this, and when he discusses elected sovereigns, he does not say that they should be even citizens, much less natural born citizens.
As to the allegation that if a child has a foreign father, she or he has some allegiance to that foreign country. The Supreme Court has ruled on that.
It ruled in the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), in which the Supreme Court said that a Natural Born Citizen is the same thing as a Natural Born Subject. And the reason that a Natural Born Citizen is the same thing as a Natural Born Subject, the court said, is because the nationality of a father has no affect on allegiance. Allegiance, the Supreme Court says, comes from the place of birth.
Quote:
“The child of alien parents born in the United States] allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 6a, ’strong enough to make a natural subject, for, if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject’
The court also said in the same case:
“Subject’ and ‘citizen’ are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives; and though the term ‘citizen’ seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, ’subjects,’ for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.’
United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)
In other words, the Supreme Court has ruled that when it comes to an ordinary citizen, what counts is the place of birth. Some say that this was not an Article II case. Well, of course. But, since there never has been an Article II case, those who say that Natural Born Citizen means something more than an ordinary citizen who was just born here (not naturalized) must prove that there is a difference.
And most law review articles agree. For example, Yale Law review wrote:
It is well settled that “native-born” citizens, those born in the United States, qualify as natural born.” It is also clear that persons born abroad of alien parents, who later become citizens by naturalization,” do not. (Jill A. Pryor, Yale Law Review, 1988)
And that is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Oren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:
“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)
Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)
And:
Gov. Bobby Jindal, who delivered the Republican response to Obama’s speech, said: “Regardless of party, all Americans are moved by the President’s personal story – the son of an American mother and a Kenyan father, who grew up to become leader of the free world.”
Jindal, of course, would be even less of a citizen under Vattel’s concept because neither of his parents were citizens at the time of his birth. His mother was about three months pregnant when they came to the USA.
There are a couple of other arguments against “the two parents plus born in the USA theory” besides the common law.
The first of these is the strict construction approach. If the framers of the Constitution had wanted us to understand that “Natural Born Citizen” should mean either two US parents or two US parents and be born in the USA, surely they would have said so. By not saying so, they certainly knew that people could think that they meant the common law definition of Natural Born Citizen as the equivalent of “Natural Born Subject.” So, for them to not clarify, must have meant that the Common Law definition was just fine.
A second point is with the logic of the parents being citizens at the time of birth. Under this theory if one of my parents gets naturalized one day after I was born, I’m not eligible. If both are naturalized a minute before I am born, I am eligible. This may be useful as an arbitrary breakdown of who should and should not be president, but what is the REAL sense behind it? Does the fact that someone was naturalized before really make a difference to someone’s loyalty? What evidence is there that the framers though this, instead of the more commonly used rule of birth in the country, used by the Common Law?
And finally, does the allegiance of the parent really affect the loyalty of a child at all? If my father was a Baptist, does this mean that I have to stay a Baptist all my life? No, of course not. And, the same about my father being a Kenyan. If my father were a Kenyan, in later years I might have an allegiance to Kenya, or I might not—just like my allegiance to the Baptist religion. There is no evidence that the framers of the Constitution thought any differently. They did require that the president must be 35 years old, 14 years a resident and a natural born citizen. But Natural Born Citizen does not require the president to wear suspenders and a belt. All he has to be is born in the USA—and, of course, elected.
There are complicated arguments out there that allege that because the writers grandfathered themselves, meaning allowed US citizens who were not natural born to be president so long as they were born before the Constitution was adopted, this (they say) proves that they considered themselves British. But this proves nothing. In fact, the historic reason why there is the exception in Article II is to allow Alexander Hamiliton, who was born on the island of Nevis, and hence neither a US citizen by place of birth or by parentage, to be president.
If they would allow Hamilton, who was not a born US citizen and did not have US parents (he wasn’t even legitimate!) to be eligible to be president, what evidence is there that they demanded two parents plus born in the USA? In fact, it was a stretch for them to demand born in the USA—but they did, and Obama was.