Torture Documents: Who Cares Part II
Posted on April 19, 2009
Back on the 17th, I wrote about the Right not really caring about the torture mild discomfort that stone cold Islamic terrorists were put in as a means to gain intelligence. This was in response to an Excitable Andy screed about most on the Right ignoring the issue. And, for the most part, most of us Extreme Right Wing Extremists, as labeled by the new DHS, still just do not care. Though we do enjoy watching
- a Party and political ideology that claims to be about looking forward and about the future consistently whining about what has happened in the past, especially when it comes to anything Bush. There is a point where honest criticism becomes an unhinged obsessions, moonies
- leftists who claim to be compassionate, but all their compassion seems to be reserved for those who want to destroy the United States (come to think of it, Leftists want to do the same thing, just without the beheadings, true torture, suicide bombings, and mass killings. Though they do threaten violence, they just don’t have the stones for it)
And they are still obsessed. Glenn “Sock Puppet” Greenwald is on his 1,287th update. The Democratic Underground has thread after thread after thread. And Emptywheelat Firedoglake, the home of the Joe Lieberman in blackfacepicture, hand wringing and panty soiling over the treatment of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
I’ve put this detail in a series of posts, but it really deserves a full post. According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.
In the list of links at Memeorandum, there is only one conservative: Washington Monthly, The Mahablog, Outside The Beltway (Conservative), Moon of Alabama, American Street, Newshoggers.com, MyDD and Discourse.net. The rest are obviously leftist who are hysterical over the treatment of KSM. You remember KSM, right? “The principal architect of the 9/11 attacks.” We care about him being waterboarded why, exactly? Because it’s torture? Tell that too those who lost loved ones on 9/11. But James Joyner at OTB makes a strange comparison
In related news, Iranian-American journalist Roxana Saberi has been convicted and sentenced to eight yearson charges of spying in Iran. So far as I’m aware, she hasn’t been waterboarded. Would we be fine with it if she had?
I often agree with James’ opinions, but, this comparison lacks merit. There is a world of difference between Saberi and what she supposedly did, and what the three al Qaeda members who were waterboarded were involved in. Perhaps we could ask the 3,000 men, women, and children their plot involved. Oh, wait, guess we can’t.
But not torture. Oh, no, not, you know, torture. That is repugnant to America’s values.
This argument, made by the Last Real Conservative in America, Andy “Trigerism” Sullivan, is typical. They say that being mean to terrorists is not about them, but about us, and what we could become. Well, let’s see. We waterboarded a grand total of 3 Al Qaeda members back in 2003, haven’t done it since (especially since the whining of the Left ruined it as an intelligence gathering method,) and we are still the same old US of A, though Lefties want to take us to being a country we were never meant to be, but, that is a different post. But, funny that Andy worries about what is mostly mental torture, after the disgusting attacks he wrote and pushed about the Palin’s, and still does. Isn’t that considered mental torture?
One of the favorite canards of the pro-torture Jack Bauer fetishists, behind only “this resembles fraternity pranks” and “but we do this in SERE,” has always been the “ticking time-bomb” scenario: (snip)
What the torture fetishists want, of course, is not to have the option to torture in these bizarre ticking time scenarios that will never happen outside a Hollywood plot, but to justify torture, period. In the debate over waterboarding, the ticking time-bomb scenario was frequently brought up, most recently in Holder’s confirmation hearing:..
Hysterical rants from the left aside, let me repeat from the other day
If you look at the long list of links at Memeorandum, you’ll see very few conservative blogs listed. Why? Because, for the most part, we really do not care if stone cold jihadis were made uncomfortable with hot and cold conditions, listening to Christina Aguilera music, sleep deprivation, and being exposed to women (only in the Muslim jihadi world are women considered torture.) Our concern is for the 3,000 men, women, and children who lost their lives on September 11, 2001, a date that barely exists in Liberal World. Our concern is for people like Nick Berg. Our concern is in stopping Islamist attacks. Our concern is stopping the march of radical Islam. Not Gitmo detainees (heck, even France, after all the diaper nashing, is only willing to take one (1) if Obama ever actually closes the site)
For those who haven’t been to the Pentagon 9/11 Memorial, it is a very sobering and heartbreaking place.
The Pentagon Memorial park consists of 184 memorial units, each of which are dedicated to an individual victim by its unique placement within the collective field. The field is organized as a timeline of the victims’ ages, spanning from the youngest, three-year-old Dana Falkenberg, to the oldest, 71-year-old John D. Yamnicky. Each memorial unit is located on its respective age line—thin metal strips that cross the memorial park. This ordering develops a powerful understanding of the broad range of the lives lost, from the youngest child to the oldest adult.
Those are the people I reserve my feelings for, not Al Qaeda terrorists.
Update: Wait, KSM’s children were tortured? Oh, wait, the left is so unhinged that they actually have to make stuff up now, which This ain’t Hell… calls them on. And finds more unhinged liberals making insane accusations
Well wait until the bobbleheads at the Democrat Underground start discussing it. Somehow the conversation becomes a discussion about Bush being a child rapist and pornographer;
Imagine if the thread was at the Free Republic, and it was about Obama.
Jules Crittenden has a Memo To Handwringing Short-Twisters
……Here’s an interesting one from NYT, mulling why no one gets worked up about Predator hits that actually kill innocent bystanders, as opposed to dunkings that six years ago caused some brief discomfort to three people. It’s a heat of battle vs. helpless captive thing, NYT informs. That and, I’d suggest, the fact of who is giving the orders when those triggers are pulled nowadays. They could never get enough of denouncing collateral damage in the old days. In other deep, abiding mysteries to occupy a few idle Sunday morning hours, we could also gaze deep into our navels and ponder the lack of lefty concern about any number of gross human rights violations by extreme Islamists.
Crossed at Pirate’s Cove
» Filed Under 9-11, Border Control/Homeland Security, Delusional Dupes and DUmmies, Democrats, Liberal World, News, RoP, Unhinged, WTC/Memorial, War On Terror, terrorism
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17 Responses to “Torture Documents: Who Cares Part II”
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9/11, 9/11, 9/11 – pretty much justifies everything for you, eh? Guess your guys should have prevented it and we wouldn’t have to explain to you why torture is a crime and those that participated in it criminals, Jack Bauer aside.
Well, yeah. I know you folks on the left would like to completely forget about what happened that day, but, we on the Right will never forget.
But Mr. Teach, don’t you know 9/11 was a Bush ordered conspiracy and there was NO evidence of an actual airplane that hit the Pentagon? I mean, the left has told us this since 9/11.
Waterboarding is not now nor will it ever be, torture. Pulling out fingernails with pliars, bending fingers back to the wrist, pulling nose hairs- that is torture.
I’d bet that kids, if told they could get a sexual high from waterboarding would start waterboarding clubs.
I’m so very very tired of the left feeling sorry for the criminals and literally elevating them, in some cases, to star status.
Moral superiority is one of the lefties favorite pastimes. And the torture issue is ready made for them. The can endlessly issue accusations and then walk away feeling morally superior all while enjoying the defense of the acts they feign to attack. And any attention paid to their morally shallow fits of accusations takes attention away Obama screwing up the economy. homeland security and foreign affairs (not to mention his base dishonesty in most aspects of choosing his dog).
Yeah, it’s all win, win, win for them and lose, lose, lose for the country as a whole
Why was Sheik Mohamed waterboarded 183 times. Was it necessary? Yes, of course, it was to make admit to something he didn’t do. Now, he is almost brain dead. He says only stupid things. This is a cover up. 9/11 was not the perfect crime. There are still many unanswered questions. But many nations are working very hard to find the truth. Another thing, why don’t you mention that the detainees are innocent? They were sold to the U.S. This was said by Amnesty International, the International Red Cross and a former Bush Aide.
Groups like The World Can’t Wait sure seemed to love waterboarding their own, Bosslowrider
It’s about all they have, snaggletoothie. And anger. Lots and lots of anger.
Luisa, KSM is not “almost brain dead.” In fact, he is in excellent health, enough to “remain a proud and defiant terrorist” in front of a military panel. Besides, I could care less. I reserve my caring for the Americans killed by terrorists like KSM.
“Moral superiority is one of the lefties favorite pastimes.”
That’s not at all hard to do in comparison to today’s conservative movement.
“moonies”
It’s always a good laugh when conservatives use that word to describe liberals. Why? Because Sun Myung Moon over the last 30 years has outspent anyone promoting, propping up and molding conservative thought while “restoring” the Christian “right” – your base. He says that was part of his job as the messiah. No one outspent him – billions – doing that and again why did he do it? Well, he boasts that he formed “core thought” in America and he did when it comes to the new right. Oh, and it is the “new” right we are talking about. Goldwater said his party was taken over by a bunch of kooks and that becomes clearer by the day. Moon also boasts about using his paper, the print voice of the right the last 25 years, to gather intel for his organization. But ultimately he did it to push America rightward so it would fit his ideology and you went along.
What did the first editor of his paper say the conservative’s savior was doing that you have been helping him achieve?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9008719207533458404&hl=en
“They (the real Moonies) are subverting our political system. They’re doing it through front organizations–most of them disguised–and through their funding of independent organizations–through the placement of volunteers in the inner sanctums of hard-pressed organizations. In every instance–in every instance–those who attend their conferences, those who accept their money or their volunteers, delude themselves that there is no loss of virtue because the Moonies have not proselytized. That misses the central, crucial point: the Moonies are a political movement in religious clothing. Moon seeks power, not the salvation of souls. To achieve that, he needs religious fanatics as his palace guard and shock troops. But more importantly, he needs secular conscripts–seduced by money, free trips, free services, seemingly endless bounty and booty–in order to give him respectability and, with it, that image of influence which translates as power.”
Dude, it is a reference to “Barking Moonbats.” Welcome to the Interwebz.
Why Waterboard him 183 times? If this is useful why would so many times be needed and at some point KSM would realize he isn’t going to die from it.
Yes. Bush the idiot masterminded 9/11.
the lefty liberal fascists cant have it both ways. just how exactly was that caper planned with a Clinton infested CIA and a Pentagon infested with Clinton era military survivors of the greatest emasculation of our armed forces in history?
just tell me how that all managed to get done without anybody seeing anything? simple stuff like laying in all the demolition charges needed to bring that building down— since the jets werent enough to do it as suggested by the toothless Troofie movement.
what a load of crap.
the world is hurtling toward a cataclysm because Israel has now been back into a corner.
but it is the same old duality— the chicken [edited] President Soetoro is making nice to Iran KNOWING it backs Israel into a corner and will push them to take out Syria (misdirection play all the way) and weaken Iran so President Pantywaist can keep his shorts clean. It will only delay the inevitable: hyperinflation around the world, China the 3000 pound gorilla cornering the worlds commodity markets with their flight out of the dollar into hard assets (steel, lumber, cement, uranium), and Russia’s ham fisted attempt to bring Eastern Europe back into its grip.
All of this as a result of the “truthful” Soetoro. All of this as a surprise to the Liberal Left who think that if we just played by the playground rules of rogue terrorist nations (i call it the playground fetish) the world would be without war (or peace as they like to think of it).
The world doesnt give a crap about 9/11. That is the governments. The people. Who the hell knows. 2/3rds of them are busy trying to figure out how to stem the tide of disease and feeding themselves tomorrow.
But to the Left the world is nothing but a touchy feely diversity workshop. Survival isnt their concern. After all a steady check arrives at their doorstep from a job, a bogus disability claim, a grant, or some scam to get a chunk of capitalist largesse for their own ends.
I take comfort in knowing all that wisdom is about to dry up as Lefties figure out Atlas is shrugging as we speak. Retrenchment of capital is a bitch. And nothing is going to happen until the real players get back in the game.
Poor lefty liberal fascists. They believe their tofu comes from the grocery store.
Bear1909 out.
*Word absent from the post above: constitution.
*Word absent from the post above: law.
I guess if you don’t care about the law or the Constitution, torture is OK so long as you’re not being tortured.
Not that this condition is at all sure to last given those attitudes….
*Editor’s note… word absent from this comment: history.
Rule of Law: Excellent points but do keep in mind that the rule of law is only what Rush and Beck define it to be for some people. Spying on Americans without warrant is cool if you are told it is by those who supply your critical thinking.
bear1909: You wouldn’t know what fascism is if you studied. Why? Because your sources are Beck and Jonah Goldberg whose job is to mold your opinions and protect the ideology not educate.
Teach: I apologize, I thought moonbat and moonies were different words. They seem to be spelled differently even if they are used for the same smear as you say. My post stands.
Rule of Law, keep in mind that the Constitution applies to American citizens and those in the process of becoming Citizens. Not stone cold AQ members.
As far as spying goes, you are misinterpreting what actually happened, Tom, as did the media, left wing sites, and Democrat legislators, who, BTW, knew about the Terrorist Surveillance Program. Many where involved in asking the NY Times to not reveal the program.
PS: no need to apologize.
‘“Moral superiority is one of the lefties favorite pastimes.”
“That’s not at all hard to do in comparison to today’s conservative movement.”
A keyboard and an inflated and entitled sense of moral superiority really doesn’t make you anything but some poor lost guy who finds his meaning in accusing others and denigrating his political opponents. That you would imagine that such statements could be true of all conservatives indicates that your problem is probably psychiatric. Get more rest, drink more fluids and avoid stressful situations.
Comment from Huffpo:
>>LANGLEY, VA: Confirming reports that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month in 2003, CIA officials officially stated that America had been put in grave peril by the agency stopping just shy of the ‘magic number’ of 184 waterboarding sessions during that month.
>>”We were really close with KSM — maybe just a Super Big Gulp of water away from breaking a number of major cases wide open” said officials. “Before we were pulled back. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was about to tell us who assassinated JFK, why Building 7 collapsed at the World Trade Center and was also about to solve an episode of Cold Case where a closeted gay high school athlete was found dead on the basketball court in 1953.”<<
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/cia-official-waterboard-1_b_188660.html
Has anyone noticed that the 183 times they say they waterboarded KSM was nearly equal to the 184 people who died at the Pentagon in the 9/11 attacks?
It was explained to me that after 9/11 we had the right to chop off the enemy’s head after we kidnapped him/her.
But that allowance was only for a little while.
Oh wait! That was not us with the permission slips.