What are we if NOT a Christian Nation?
Posted on April 8, 2009
-By Warner Todd Huston
As President Obama engaged in his “America Stinks” tour of Europe this week he told audiences in Turkey that the U.S. is not a Christian nation. “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation,” he said on April 6. This echoes his statement in 2007 when Obama told CBN, “whatever we once were, we’re no longer just a Christian nation.”
The subtle difference between those two statements just over a year apart is interesting. Candidate Obama seemed to admit that we might have “once” been a Christian nation but are no longer “just” a Christian nation. But, suddenly as president, he seems to be saying squarely that we “don’t” consider ourselves Christian. Interesting that he seemed to feel obligated to mitigate as a candidate his now openly admitted belief that we just aren’t a Christian nation.
In any case, it is obvious that this is Obama’s way of ingratiating himself with Muslim audiences. But whatever his immediate goal, his sentiment is a popular one with Americans that sport left-wing, anti-religious ideology, people who look to Obama as their leader.
But is he right? Is it true that we aren’t a Christian nation? Did the Founding Fathers choose the Christian ethic as the one upon which they based this country, or not? The answer would appear to be an emphatic yes once the historical record is reviewed. It would also appear that we are straying far afield from that grounding.
As Ronald Reagan reminded us in 1988: “The First Continental Congress made its first act a prayer — the beginning of a great tradition. We have then, a lesson from the founders of our land, those giants of soul and intellect who¹s courageous pledge of life and fortune and sacred honor, and whose ‘firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,’ have ever guided and inspired Americans and all who would fan freedom’s mighty flames and live in ‘freedom’s holy light.’ That lesson is clear: That in the winning of freedom and in the living of life, the first step is prayer.” Reagan was ever so right to guide us toward an understanding that the Founders of this country nearly to a man were steeped in religion — and that of the Protestant, Christian variety, at that. Even the ones against organized religion believed in a God, one that put us here and gave us certain rights as espoused in the Declaration of Independence from Britain.
But let us not use just the Declaration, as the Constitution is supreme law that guides this country. We must strive to remain strict constructionists of that document and hew closely to what the founder’s intended in all their wisdom. It is well considered proper, then, that we look to what the Founders and their contemporaries wrote to construe what they “meant” concerning the principles and ethics to which they hoped we’d remain forever faithful.
Let us begin with a quote from James Madison, the Father of the Constitution. “The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it.” That sounds rather ominous, does it not? Of course Madison means that Christian concept of morality that he learned from the Anglican Church which was a required state religion in his home state, Virginia when he was a child.
Another stalwart driving force of the revolutionary days was Samuel Adams who, echoing James Madison’s idea, said, “Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals.”
George Washington who can be quoted bestowing Christian religious principles on many of his thoughts and actions he took on the battlefield and in government is very quotable on the subject. Here are a few quotes from the Father of our country.
- “Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles.”
- “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.”
- “And now, Almighty Father, if it is Thy holy will that we shall obtain a place and name among the nations of the earth, grant that we may be enabled to show our gratitude for Thy goodness by our endeavors to fear and obey Thee.”
Pretty straight forward, I believe.
How about Ben Franklin? Old Poor Richard himself was never considered the biggest religious fanatic of his day. In fact he is one of the few Founders that actually considered himself a Deist. But even he once said, “It is the duty of mankind on all suitable occasions to acknowledge their dependence on the Divine being.” Hardly sounds like he was against the morality of Christian ethics, does it?
John Adams, second president and indispensable founding father who was well known to be extremely pious both in religion and opinion said, “Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God’s service, when it is violating all His laws.”
He sure did not say Allah’s service. Nor did he couple God and THEY. Adams said HIS laws. An obvious recognition of the Christian God of heaven and earth.
These quotes are all well and good but what did the early American theorists intend to pass on to the youth of America? As an answer to this I point to Benjamin Rush of Pennsylvania. Rush was a respected Doctor and was closely tied to most of the great figures of the early Republic and its national politics. He wrote,”I proceed…to enquire what mode of education we shall adopt so as to secure to the state all the advantages that are to be derived from the proper instruction of youth; and here I beg leave to remark, that the only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”
Well, we could quote dozens upon dozens of such phrases from men like Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Henry Lee, George Clinton and a host of other revolutionary notables but that would tend to over burden the point.
Speaking of Thomas Jefferson, as a riposte to Christians, many half-informed secularists claim that Jefferson was a Deist that hated Christianity. But this is garbled history. Like many of the Founders, Jefferson disliked organized religion but was not in any way against religious sentiment, training and ideals. In fact, the older he got, the more religious he became. But even as our third president he regularly attended Bible class right in the the halls of Congress and never once scolded the classes from meeting on federal property. He was not against Christianity in government at all.*
The point is that the men of the revolution, those very men that created our country, its mores and conventions based their ruminations upon the Christian God and his ethics and principles. They felt this base to be entirely indispensable to the stability of republican government. They warned that to dispense with them would be our undoing and we followed those predications faithfully up until the civil war and half heatedly until the presidency of FDR.
But today, civil Libertarians strive to remake the U.S.A. into a Godless and moraless society based upon an if-it-feels-right mode of thinking. The Democrat Party tries to replace religion with statism and socialism. Even Republicans all too often shy away from the question of the religious ethics of Christianity as if it is a backward ideal that would best be forgotten.
No, Benjamin Rush had it right when he said that without religion “… there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”
Whether critics and secularists like it or not, we are at heart a Christian nation and if we cast off that ethic we will no longer be the United States, we will no longer have in us what made us great.
*For an in depth discussion of Jefferson’s misinterpreted Danbury Letter from which the phrase “wall of separation between church and state” was derived, visit: http://www.publiusforum.com/oldopeds/hustonstoryseparation.html.
» Filed Under Anti-Americanism, Christianity, Conservatism, Constitution, Debate, Democrats, Liberal World, liberalism, religion
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32 Responses to “What are we if NOT a Christian Nation?”
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Interesting piece, but it seems to be lacking in a few key points. First off, Obama’s most recent message seemed to be more a point that Christians are not the only religion in America, more so than any individual morality that we’re based on. But aside from that, if the founding fathers did conceive us as a Christian nation, why didn’t they put more Christian values into our country’s defining documents? Jesus Christ espoused help for the poor and meek, he was a friend of the lowest of the low, the prisoners and prostitutes and diseased of his time. How does our country treat those groups? So much for helping the diseased; the founding fathers didn’t even include universal health care. Our country’s creators envisioned a world where each man controlled his life. Very little federal involvement in state’s affairs, no other role for government other than to protect the country, really. There is no question we’ve strayed far from their original ideals, but my question is, are those Christian ideals? They seem to be independent of religion entirely. If they had wanted this country to grasp Christian goals entirely, why not make adultery a crime? Why allow freedom of speech when it could lead to not honoring one’s parents or spouse? A religious person is not supposed to covet his neighbor’s goods. Our entire economy is based on one coveting another.
There are many ways that I feel we should go back to what Washington and Jefferson and Franklin had in mind for us, though we must acknowledge that the world has changed since their time. But to say that they conceived us as purely a Christian country does not account for why the ideals espoused in the Constitution and other founding documents do not grasp Christian values. They mention god, of course, but not the individual Christian values themselves.
From the Treaty of Tripoli, approved by the U.S. Senate and signed by John Adams on June 10, 1797:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries”
The Treaty Of Tripoli is a broken treaty. It is worthless.
Rob K. wrote, “the founding fathers didn’t even include universal health care.”
Rob isn’t aware of just what comprised medical care in the 18th century. The few hospitals that existed were more for quarantining than actually treating the diseases. Surgery consisted of amputating gangrene limbs because anesthetics didn’t exist that would have made internal surgery possible. I hope you’re starting to getting the idea of just how ridiculous universal government health care would have been to anyone in the 18th century.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
Nice out of context quotes… and?
and?
You’re going to scare him off with that!
LOL
I know he THINKS he has a point. But in truth, he doesn’t. Further, he probably did not read a word of that posted above because Jefferson’s mistaken anti-religious views were addressed there.
It is always a mystery to me why folks feel that their own religion is the ultimate in religions, when in fact, all religions call for the destruction of other religions.
Doesn’t that actually denounce the spirituality imbued upon any religion?
Deuteronomy called for the complete annihilation of seven nations and their followers (total destruction, as in men, women, children, and livestock)…
My thought being that what is being overlooked is the mutation of spirituality in favor of a religious movement. (read it again if you didn’t understand it)
Just as Christianity has wrenched away the Spirit from its own judgment, so has also Islam done the same.
It IS appropriate to say that this is no longer a Christian nation because the twisted remains of what was Spirituality are so thread bare that there is no semblance of religion.
As for the person who did not return to defend that stance, it would appear that the first statement is a notation of how men tear down other people who have differing views (to the extreme of murder) in the name of God. A very disturbing fact, though, and his words danged near prophesy the destruction of Indian Nations across America (in the name of God)
while the second statement is again a prophecy of the stupidity of mankind’s blind following of concepts beyond their comprehension.In the end we will see that this blind obedience to what we call “religion” will appear as ridiculous as bleeding patients in modern hospitals by learned doctors. (A practice that indeed IS looked back on and seen as barbaric)
Of course, that’s just MY interpretation.
I agree with the original post. I feel no urge to argue anyones point. Everyone does have their own way of thinking. After reading everything, including comments, it’s interesting to see how different and bored and full of anger and arguement we all are. It’s not our generations fault. Alot of people dropped the ball way back through the branches and not only we but our children and so on and so forth will ultimately suffer. Would you consider America A. Fruit of God B. Fruit of Death (We are all small minded and have no idea what is going on or what will.) All we think of is our day to day life stressors. There is a bigger picture today wont last but a second.
A- A nation full of over worked, lost, tired, sick, and confused people. My opinion I do not believe US was ever a Christian Nation. It might have sounded nice to say but I’ve only met 8 actual Christians in my lifetime. People like to go to church just to do it and some people really truely devote their mind heart and will. one out of every hundred or thousand is not a nation.
“A universal theology is impossible, but a universal experience is not only possible but necessary.” ~Jesus Christ (ACIM)
**edited for uncivil, foul language**
a fool has said in his heart, there is no God. if i didn’t believe in a divine being you could not imagine the type of person i’d be. and there are those who don’t. man can only kill the body, which is going to die anyway. if i had no belief that my soul would carry on then my lil stint on this planet would be big. and dangerous. the most they can do is kill me. the least give me a slap on the wrist for crimes that i have enough money to pay for. who would i be if there were no God. o my bad. if i didn’t believe there was no God.
The fact is, Allah and God mean exactly the same thing. They are spoken in different languages, but they refer to the same almighty, loving, wise God. I’m not arrogant enough to say that I don’t believe in a God; I realize that I have no idea how life started. But, to believe in any organized religion is, to me, foolish. Everything that I’ve ever heard about God in my life has been given to me by MEN (humanity, not referring just to males). Even the bible, which was supposedly inspired by God, was written by men. Everyone who has told me that the bible was divinely inspired was human. In this way, I believe that everyone who believes in organized religion has much more faith in man than in God. I believe that there may be a God, but until I speak to Him, Her, or It directly, I will continue to live my life my way, based on what my parents taught me and what my intuition tells me is right.
PS. I have never committed a crime that was more heinous than public intoxication. I’m not saying that that action was right, but I certainly wasn’t trying to hurt anyone or anything in committing that crime. I think hurting people is wrong, despite my generally agnostic (which many people call atheist) philosophy.
United states was based on none compliance. If we ware good boys and girls and did as British told us we would not be a nation.
Americans are individualists. Any infringement on freedom is frowned upon so do as you told or burn in hell does not really click.
Unfortunately, we have Jewish culture here in America, not Christian. In the words of former President Carter, the Jews dominate our new media, not to mention Hollywood movies and TV. Just look at the credits on the movies, most are Jewish names. When is the last time you saw a movie exposing child abuse amongst Orthodox NY rabbis? When is the last time you saw a Jewish produced movies about bad Catholic Priests? You see my point.
The death bed is the best place to look for the belief in the Hebrew God and his Son. It is very hard to find a non-believer there. At the last moment they are not able to deny the Almighty Lord. In the end ALL knees will bow.
Although I am of the belief that one [edited] is as good a president as another; I fear that we have made a grievous error in electing Obama as president. His health care “reform” is a terrible idea and as far as it helping the diseased or elderly – the plan and it’s authors would have them suffer and die to rid our nation of the weak and dying segment of our populace. I have spoken with people who have lived in other countries with “socialized” medicine and have been told you have to wait months to see any physician – which is usually not your family doctor. I also work with a very diverse group of people from many countries at my company, they are 98% a christian/catholic majority with a very few hindis and muslims. I beg to differ with Obama – we are still a christian nation and his refusal to participate in national prayer day and worst of all not calling christmas christmas anymore is unacceptable! Deuteronomy is an old testament book not a new testament book, there is a difference! God was a vengeful God until Jesus changed all that, he is now a loving God and Christianity feels too strong to the heart of so many to be wrong.
We are NOT a Christian Nation. We have never been a christian nation nor should we EVER be one. America is a nation of individuals free to choose any religion or dismiss it entirely. Therefore the president (whom I did not vote for) is correct. If you want to draw your own conclusions about the founding fathers you are free to do so. There are others who draw exactly the opposite conclusions complete with verified quotes to support thier cases as well. For example:
“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” -George Washington : Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792
“Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.” -John Adams: letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” -James Madison:April 1, 1774
And on and on from plenty of other founding fathers. So playing the quotes game is just the other side of the same coin. In America people are free to choose. If you agree with that statement then you must agree that America is not a christian nation reguardless of and supposed majorities.
We can ONLY assume what prompted the Bill of Rights and The Constitution, was it really Christian values? Or perhaps, upon realizing the inherant flaws in human nature – the founding fathers decided to create a unique document protecting us from the well-intentioned masses that truely think they are doing what’s best for us – by forcing us to be more like them..in all their wisdom.
Will our freedoms be preserved, only if others agree with them?
It seems that no one here knows history enough to know that the values of Christianity, and therefore Judaism, are based completely upon Roman and Greek law and philosophy. And yes, there was a Rome before Roman Catholic, one that was polytheistic and executed both Jews and Christians. Please people, wake up.
This is NOT a Christian nation. What we are is a nation of religious freedom. We have the freedom to choose who/what we want to worship or to not worship any god at all. The fact the “Christians” are so freaking militant is what the problem is. How many people all across the world were killed in the crusades, how many were burnt as witches, how many were tortured to death because the Catholic Church branded them heretics during the inquisition? No one knows for sure but it is most likely in the millions by now. Up until the late 1950’s the Catholic Church was allowed to take you behind locked doors to “question” people about being heretics.
I hope like hell no President ever calls this country a “Christian” nation. Just because they may be the majority religion in the country does not mean that we are a Christian nation. Heck these Christians cannot even get along within their OWN religion. Heck, you have Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Pentecostal and a slew of other “branches” that hate each others guts. SO when a religion cannot stand others of the SAME religion it sure does have a problem.
I think we need to remember that our fore-fathers did not create this country based on Christian beliefs. They built this country on doing GOOD for each other, that’s why it is in the FIRST AMENDMENT. One of the FIRST things our founding fathers did was to make sure that no one religion would be forced upon anyone who did not want to worship it. But the Christians are bound and determined to take that right away from us. Maybe we should outlaw Christianity, oh wait, they are guaranteed the right to pursue their religion in the First Amendment too.
Chris above is a perfect example of a lack of historical knowledge. Lots of assumptions that builds misinformed opinions. Yet he’s so sure of his misinformation that he feels he can call people names and decide THEY are venal. Sir, you need to do some reading.
Warner above is one of the people that refuse to hear anything about his religion. Please tell me exactly what I have assumed? all of what i said is in fact in history books all over the world. How did I assume that the inquisition tortured people for their beliefs in other religions? Did I assume the Christians invaded Turkey and the middle east killing the Muslims because they were not Christian?
So please Warner Todd from Houston Please tell me where my historical facts are wrong. Either that or keep your mouth closed because you know I am correct, that is why you did not and cannot show me where I am having wrong assumptions. You can’t because I have spoken the truth and you Christians don’t want to face the real truth that you and your religion have caused more death and suffering than any other religion known to man.
It’s Huston.
Your silly point about “inquisitions” really is meaningless. More human beings have killed by government than ANY and ALL religions. You are foolish to think religion is worse than communism/socialism.
But your problem is that you haven’t a clue about context in history. You spout isolated facts as if that tells the whole story. You haven’t a clue how it all fits together and you don’t care to find out. All you see is that there was an “inquisition” once, so that invalidates all of religion. You are simple minded in your uninformed approach.
You are also completely uninformed about the religious history of the USA.
You are a mindless religion hater and nothing will dent that child-like assumption. You atheists are more religious than any Christian, I have to say. Your “beliefs” are impervious to reason, discussion, or fact.
1.65 million in 2000 years vs. 153.3 million people killed by atheist regimes in the 20th Century alone.
See there you go just because I do not feel this is a Christian nation and I speak out about why, I am a mindless atheist. I do not hate God; I just dislike his fan club. Because they (and you) are the type folks that decide that anyone that does not conform to your belief in your particular brand of religion is evil or demented.
You go on about how all this death and destruction caused by Christianity is an ok thing if you put it in the right pattern of history or look at why they did it. There is NO reason any religion should persecute anyone that does not follow your religion or your belief in your God. But Christianity has done this many times in our recorded history. You go on to talk about the religious history of our country. Maybe you forgot our fore-fathers left England to escape religious persecution. But guess what it is alive right here in the USA carried on by the Christian followers.
I may not know the exact religious history of the USA, but I am betting I did not get my info from what the Church handed me to take as fact.
Loboinok answered the question I asked
“How many people all across the world were killed in the crusades, how many were burnt as witches, how many were tortured to death because the Catholic Church branded them heretics during the inquisition?”
1.65 million in 2000 years vs. 153.3 million people killed by atheist regimes in the 20th Century alone.
I am wondering if you could show us where you got your information? Because if you look here http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm a nice little site that shows more than a mere 1.65 million were killed by Christians. It even is good enough that it shows where it got its information. Take a look at how wonderful the Christians treat people that are not of their faith.
While there are many Christians that are indeed good people that help others of any faith, there are even more that will beat, burn, slander or just out right kill you for not following their faith. They pretty much use thier religion to bully and badger people of other faiths or no faith at all. Also let’s not forget the Priests and other heads of churches that have raped and molested followers of their faith. Let’s not forget that while many of these Priests were turned in to the Church they were not punished, they were just moved to another church to start their reign of terror there. So yeah let’s tell the world we are a nation of a religion that apparently does not feel the need control their own.
… and I said people that disagree with me are “evil” or “demented” where??
I’m an Orthodox Sabbath observing Jew in Brooklyn, NY. I have no problem with the fact that this is a Christian country. In fact, I’m glad I do. My most fervent hope is that all people embrace their religion, not abandon it. I think we need more religion, not less.
Liberals hate Christianity and are threatened by it because it undermines the “liberal” religion.
This is NOT a nation where everyone is required to be Christian. There is no official government approved religion. We are FREE, like it or not!
It’s a good thing we aren’t a nation that requires reading comprehension, there Chrissy, because you’d never make a good citizen at that rate. Try reading again. If you find ANYWHERE where I said that we should be required to be a Christian or that the founders said that.. well, then you have an argument. Unfortunately for your slight ability to comprehend an argument… I didn’t say that.