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	<title>Comments on: Apparently, It Is Dumb To Ask For Physical Proof Regarding Obama</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: No COLB Nobama</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113645</link>
		<dc:creator>No COLB Nobama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113645</guid>
		<description>To Eric: Like most of the Dumbocrats who post on blogs such as these, you&#039;re misstating the facts. Look closely at the Certification of Live Birth that was posted by Nobama&#039;s people. It states clearly at the bottom that the document is &quot;prima facie evidence of live birth&quot; and that any alteration of the document renders it void. 

You sound like you&#039;re either a law student or a lawyer. To be successful in either case, you need to READ documents carefully.
You stated that the Certification is &quot;is considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth and of citizenship&quot;. WRONG. 

As is stated, the document is proof ONLY that a birth occurred. If it was prima facie evidence of &quot;place and birth and citizenship&quot; it would say so. But it doesn&#039;t, because the State of Hawaii also permits the registration of births outside the US by parents who reside in Hawaii. So the Certification is evidence only that a birth occured and was registered with the State of Hawaii. At best, it is ambiguous.

So Nobama&#039;s birth was registered in Hawaii. But only his long-form vault copy birth certificate will reveal the details of his place of birth, attending physician, time of birth, etc. with signatures. His refusal to produce this original birth certificate (NOT &quot;Certification&quot;) is a red flag that indicates it contains evidence he does not want made public. As a candidate for the highest office in the land, he owes it to the citizens of this country to demonstrate that he complies with the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution. He willfully refuses to do so. 

John McCain was also asked to provide his original birth certificate and did so immediately, even though it ultimately showed that he too, was Constitutionally ineligible since he was born outside the military base in Colon, not on US soil.

Note also the comment on the face of the document which says any alteration renders the document void. The image of the Certification that appeared on Nobama&#039;s website had the certification number deleted. Voila, VOID on its face.

And your comment about the document&#039;s being 
&quot;considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth&quot; is again WRONG, since the State of Hawaii itself does not consider its own Certification of Birth sufficient evidence for a Driver&#039;s License application.

This is why your &quot;Law Student&quot; theory is BS. Few law students have learned to take the time to READ a document properly--especially Dumbocrats who allow their emotions to dominate over careful analysis. 

So go back to the books, sunshine. You might want to get into another line of business. In the meantime, real Constitutional lawyers will find a way to bring to light the truth about this usurper, who is almost certainly an Indonesian citizen and illegal alien.

**edited**</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Eric: Like most of the Dumbocrats who post on blogs such as these, you&#8217;re misstating the facts. Look closely at the Certification of Live Birth that was posted by Nobama&#8217;s people. It states clearly at the bottom that the document is &#8220;prima facie evidence of live birth&#8221; and that any alteration of the document renders it void. </p>
<p>You sound like you&#8217;re either a law student or a lawyer. To be successful in either case, you need to READ documents carefully.<br />
You stated that the Certification is &#8220;is considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth and of citizenship&#8221;. WRONG. </p>
<p>As is stated, the document is proof ONLY that a birth occurred. If it was prima facie evidence of &#8220;place and birth and citizenship&#8221; it would say so. But it doesn&#8217;t, because the State of Hawaii also permits the registration of births outside the US by parents who reside in Hawaii. So the Certification is evidence only that a birth occured and was registered with the State of Hawaii. At best, it is ambiguous.</p>
<p>So Nobama&#8217;s birth was registered in Hawaii. But only his long-form vault copy birth certificate will reveal the details of his place of birth, attending physician, time of birth, etc. with signatures. His refusal to produce this original birth certificate (NOT &#8220;Certification&#8221;) is a red flag that indicates it contains evidence he does not want made public. As a candidate for the highest office in the land, he owes it to the citizens of this country to demonstrate that he complies with the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution. He willfully refuses to do so. </p>
<p>John McCain was also asked to provide his original birth certificate and did so immediately, even though it ultimately showed that he too, was Constitutionally ineligible since he was born outside the military base in Colon, not on US soil.</p>
<p>Note also the comment on the face of the document which says any alteration renders the document void. The image of the Certification that appeared on Nobama&#8217;s website had the certification number deleted. Voila, VOID on its face.</p>
<p>And your comment about the document&#8217;s being<br />
&#8220;considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth&#8221; is again WRONG, since the State of Hawaii itself does not consider its own Certification of Birth sufficient evidence for a Driver&#8217;s License application.</p>
<p>This is why your &#8220;Law Student&#8221; theory is BS. Few law students have learned to take the time to READ a document properly&#8211;especially Dumbocrats who allow their emotions to dominate over careful analysis. </p>
<p>So go back to the books, sunshine. You might want to get into another line of business. In the meantime, real Constitutional lawyers will find a way to bring to light the truth about this usurper, who is almost certainly an Indonesian citizen and illegal alien.</p>
<p>**edited**</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113604</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113604</guid>
		<description>KP - You make a good point.  I&#039;m certainly of that opinion, but the fact is, most americans aren&#039;t - they&#039;re weak mindless sheep, and you know it.  How else can you get to where we are as a nation?  Democrats and &quot;children&quot; between 18 and 25 think they have it all figured out and all they&#039;ve done is turn America into some kind of quasi-socialistic welfare state that turns the working class into the &quot;new slavery&quot; trade via taxes.  Perhaps that&#039;s the plan...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KP &#8211; You make a good point.  I&#8217;m certainly of that opinion, but the fact is, most americans aren&#8217;t &#8211; they&#8217;re weak mindless sheep, and you know it.  How else can you get to where we are as a nation?  Democrats and &#8220;children&#8221; between 18 and 25 think they have it all figured out and all they&#8217;ve done is turn America into some kind of quasi-socialistic welfare state that turns the working class into the &#8220;new slavery&#8221; trade via taxes.  Perhaps that&#8217;s the plan&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KP</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113596</link>
		<dc:creator>KP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113596</guid>
		<description>In other words, if we are afraid to confront violent blacks in the street then we are as weak as...say France.  F that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, if we are afraid to confront violent blacks in the street then we are as weak as&#8230;say France.  F that!</p>
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		<title>By: KP</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113595</link>
		<dc:creator>KP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113595</guid>
		<description>Jim, if people are going to riot in the streets, we will just have to take them out as well and clean up this country while doing so.  See, if people really felt the same as you, then that means rioting works returns great sucess among thugs.  You have to defeat evil period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, if people are going to riot in the streets, we will just have to take them out as well and clean up this country while doing so.  See, if people really felt the same as you, then that means rioting works returns great sucess among thugs.  You have to defeat evil period.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113593</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113593</guid>
		<description>I look forward to the day Obama The Usurper is hauled out of the White House in hand cuffs by the FBI and/or the U.S. Army.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to the day Obama The Usurper is hauled out of the White House in hand cuffs by the FBI and/or the U.S. Army.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113577</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113577</guid>
		<description>I think everyone on this site may be missing the point altogether...  Imagine what would happen if he were found to be in the white house illegally.  Nearly 100% of black people voted for this idiot (by the way, if he hadn&#039;t been black, how many americans would have taken a junior senator with little or no experience seriously???).  How many of that 100% would be taking to the streets and burning white america to the ground if &quot;the white man&quot; ousted him?  Good god - they nearly burned the city of Watts to the ground over the aquittal of four policemen that were charged for beating Rodney King.  Jesus - are you guys dumb or what?  The truth will not help or save you.  What done is done.  We need to put our energy into limiting the damage this a$$hole can do to america while he occupies the office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think everyone on this site may be missing the point altogether&#8230;  Imagine what would happen if he were found to be in the white house illegally.  Nearly 100% of black people voted for this idiot (by the way, if he hadn&#8217;t been black, how many americans would have taken a junior senator with little or no experience seriously???).  How many of that 100% would be taking to the streets and burning white america to the ground if &#8220;the white man&#8221; ousted him?  Good god &#8211; they nearly burned the city of Watts to the ground over the aquittal of four policemen that were charged for beating Rodney King.  Jesus &#8211; are you guys dumb or what?  The truth will not help or save you.  What done is done.  We need to put our energy into limiting the damage this a$$hole can do to america while he occupies the office.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113576</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113576</guid>
		<description>Mr. Teach,

I have looked around. Nobody has produced any billing statements or other such evidence that would substantiate the claim.

You are, of course, correct that this hasn&#039;t in fact been handled by a lowly 1L intern. But the cases have been handled in a fashion that is consistent with the assumption that the Obama camp view these various legal challenges as nuisance lawsuits with no merit. The documents they have filed with the courts are pretty much standard boilerplate addressing issues of standing.

So how much has he spent? Obviously I don&#039;t personally know, but my guess would be in the range of $20,000 - $30,000 or so assuming pretty high hourly billing rates of $600 to $800 an hour for the lead attorney and $120 - $200 for the paralegals or interns who undoubtedly did all the real legwork.

The problem which any lawsuit challenging Obama&#039;s citizenship status--even a hypothetical one which can survive a standing challenge--is going to face is that every single last court in the country is going to grant a presumption of validity to the COLB. Overriding that presumption is going to require that some evidence be given which suggests that it might be false. And nobody has presented any evidence of the sort.

So why hasn&#039;t Obama released the so called &quot;long form&quot; version? I would guess that there are two real reasons: 1) he&#039;s probably a bit indignant at the suggestion that he should be subjected to higher level of scrutiny on this matter than anybody has ever been, and 2) because keeping this issue alive at the fringes serves his strategic purpose of delegitimating the right in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Teach,</p>
<p>I have looked around. Nobody has produced any billing statements or other such evidence that would substantiate the claim.</p>
<p>You are, of course, correct that this hasn&#8217;t in fact been handled by a lowly 1L intern. But the cases have been handled in a fashion that is consistent with the assumption that the Obama camp view these various legal challenges as nuisance lawsuits with no merit. The documents they have filed with the courts are pretty much standard boilerplate addressing issues of standing.</p>
<p>So how much has he spent? Obviously I don&#8217;t personally know, but my guess would be in the range of $20,000 &#8211; $30,000 or so assuming pretty high hourly billing rates of $600 to $800 an hour for the lead attorney and $120 &#8211; $200 for the paralegals or interns who undoubtedly did all the real legwork.</p>
<p>The problem which any lawsuit challenging Obama&#8217;s citizenship status&#8211;even a hypothetical one which can survive a standing challenge&#8211;is going to face is that every single last court in the country is going to grant a presumption of validity to the COLB. Overriding that presumption is going to require that some evidence be given which suggests that it might be false. And nobody has presented any evidence of the sort.</p>
<p>So why hasn&#8217;t Obama released the so called &#8220;long form&#8221; version? I would guess that there are two real reasons: 1) he&#8217;s probably a bit indignant at the suggestion that he should be subjected to higher level of scrutiny on this matter than anybody has ever been, and 2) because keeping this issue alive at the fringes serves his strategic purpose of delegitimating the right in general.</p>
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		<title>By: William Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113574</link>
		<dc:creator>William Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113574</guid>
		<description>Search around, Eric, and you will find it. Furthermore, he has been fighting off the lawsuits for over 6 months: how much do you think the lawyers fees are? Why fight it? Why not just provide the BC? 

Besides, I doubt your average first year law student would be able to successfully defend Obama from, goodness!!! providing a BC all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Now, look, my opinion is he is an American natural born citizen till proven otherwise. But, I find it strange that he is fighting so hard and spending all the money to keep from releasing the BC. Any ideas why he would fight so hard, and spend the $$$?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Search around, Eric, and you will find it. Furthermore, he has been fighting off the lawsuits for over 6 months: how much do you think the lawyers fees are? Why fight it? Why not just provide the BC? </p>
<p>Besides, I doubt your average first year law student would be able to successfully defend Obama from, goodness!!! providing a BC all the way to the US Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Now, look, my opinion is he is an American natural born citizen till proven otherwise. But, I find it strange that he is fighting so hard and spending all the money to keep from releasing the BC. Any ideas why he would fight so hard, and spend the $$$?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113567</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113567</guid>
		<description>Oh, Mr. Teach. There is no evidence whatsoever that Obama has spent &quot;hundreds of thousands, and perhaps over a million dollars, defending lawsuits&quot;. It makes no sense. Everyone of the court challenges that have been initiated has so far been dismissed on the basis of standing or because they are facially absurd. Your average first year law student could have successfully handled these cases with a minimum of effort for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Mr. Teach. There is no evidence whatsoever that Obama has spent &#8220;hundreds of thousands, and perhaps over a million dollars, defending lawsuits&#8221;. It makes no sense. Everyone of the court challenges that have been initiated has so far been dismissed on the basis of standing or because they are facially absurd. Your average first year law student could have successfully handled these cases with a minimum of effort for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/02/16/apparently-it-is-dumb-to-ask-for-physical-proof-regarding-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-113566</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=19995#comment-113566</guid>
		<description>If anyone were to produce even a single piece of evidence which is in any way inconsistent with Obama having been born in Hawaii then maybe people might take this more seriously. As it stands now, there is simply no reason whatsoever to suspect that things are not as they seem.

Why do you believe that something is amiss? On the basis of what evidence? Why should Obama be compelled to provide documentation above and beyond that which has ordinarily required of anyone else in his position?

Furthermore, the belief that there is something unusual with the documentation he has presented is utterly and absolutely false. The COLB he has presented is exactly what everyone in Hawaii has who does not have their original hospital issued birth certificate. It is a legal document and it is considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth and of citizenship.

In any case, and speaking in purely self interested terms, I&#039;m quite pleased to see that this issue continues to attract the attention of the dingbat wing of the right as it makes all of you look like bigoted fools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone were to produce even a single piece of evidence which is in any way inconsistent with Obama having been born in Hawaii then maybe people might take this more seriously. As it stands now, there is simply no reason whatsoever to suspect that things are not as they seem.</p>
<p>Why do you believe that something is amiss? On the basis of what evidence? Why should Obama be compelled to provide documentation above and beyond that which has ordinarily required of anyone else in his position?</p>
<p>Furthermore, the belief that there is something unusual with the documentation he has presented is utterly and absolutely false. The COLB he has presented is exactly what everyone in Hawaii has who does not have their original hospital issued birth certificate. It is a legal document and it is considered by every single court in this country as sufficient evidence of place of birth and of citizenship.</p>
<p>In any case, and speaking in purely self interested terms, I&#8217;m quite pleased to see that this issue continues to attract the attention of the dingbat wing of the right as it makes all of you look like bigoted fools.</p>
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