H.R. 45: Here Comes Gun Control
Posted on January 15, 2009
I said it several times, it wasn’t Obama you had to worry about, but Nancy Pelosi’s House, when it came to gun control. Sure, Obama will easily sign it, unlike what Bush would have done, but, here we go!
H.R. 45: Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
Say, where’s the ACLU when you need them to stand up and say “Nyet!” to a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment?
I found this while perusing the Democratic Underground, but, Say Uncle provides some great information
1. Require licensing for anybody that owns a gun.
2. Would require photographs and a thumbprint
3. Would require passage of a test that covers:
(A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;
(B) the safe handling of firearms;
(C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;
(D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and
(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;
Say Uncle also points to Snowflakes In Hell, which has some great information. Sebastion states
Normally, I’d tell everyone not to worry too much, because it’s probably not going anywhere, but we can’t take anything for granted in this Congress. Right now the bill has no co-sponsors, and has not been scheduled for a committee hearing, so it is no threat right now. But we should keep an eye on it.
Some other interesting points of the Bill
Section 102 (a) (1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant; (what is wrong with a DL?)
Section 102 (a) (8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant; (that sounds rather intrusive)
Section 103 (c) looks to be creating a federal firearms card, with your picture and information. This from the Party that goes ballistic over a national ID card.
Section 104 makes it seem as if all renewals go through the AG of the USA. Does this mean that I have to go to a Federal office to reapply, rather then the Wake Country Sheriff’s office?
That’s all for now, a more in depth look if it manages to get farther in the House.
» Filed Under 2nd Amendment, ACLU, Bill Of Rights, Constitution, Democrats, Dems In Charge: Now What?, Domestic Enemies, Gun Control, Nancy Pelosi, News, Politics As Usual, U.S. Constitution, liberalism
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266 Responses to “H.R. 45: Here Comes Gun Control”
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Keep us up to date on this potential law. I would think that the chances of passage are very slim but Obama is very anti-gun.
Re: Sect 102 (a)8. This is exactly how they will control your access to firearms. Anybody that has sought or was forced, even for drug or alcohol screening and the counselling that will ensue will be disqualified from owning a gun.
Not seeing your objection since I have to do all of that before I am allowed to drive a car. The only exception is the thumb print but it appears to be in keeping with the rest.
My objection is that it is a state issue and not a federal issue since it is not about a gun user transporting or selling their gun across state borders.
First, what the act is about. It seeks licensing for those who buy handguns and semiautomatic firearms.
Splendiferous, I would say Obama is very anti gang banger packing an 8mm automatic pistol to his next drive-by shooting or holdup. Obama has made it very clear he has no problem with hunters, target shooters, collectors and such.
digitus, the section you refer to specifies:
“(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;”
It would make no sense to disqualify anyone who takes a drug or alcohol screening. Many jobs require those tests. However, someone found to have a cocaine habit probably would be disqualified — and should be, IMO. Same goes for, say, a paranoid schizophrenic. I’d have a hard time getting upset if some of those folks had to get by without a weapon.
Kerwin, the bill goes to some trouble explaining Rep. Rush’s contention that it’s the nature of the gun industry for intrastate and interstate commerce to be commingled, and therefore the law if enacted should apply everywhere.
I get the nature-of-commerce argument. The part I don’t like is that gun legislation that’s needed and makes sense for Chicago, New York and L.A. is probably not a good fit for for Presque Isle, Maine, Hattiesburg, Miss., or Billings, Mont.
In any case, I don’t thing gun enthusiasts need to worry too much about a wave of onerous, heavy handed legislation. As mentioned, this one bill has no co-sponsors. With all the pressing economic matters to be addressed, I’d be surprised if it makes out of committee.
S.W. you don’t know anything about guns I take it? What’s an 8mm? Never heard of that handgun caliber. Ever.
I would worry about this. Simply for the fact that it’s even being proposed.
@Kerwin:
The difference is simple. You don’t have a right to drive a car on public roads. You do have a right to own firearms.
@ SW:
The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting or collectibles. It is about making sure the people can reclaim our government should the need arise. You know, the whole thing in the Declaration of Independence about the people’s right to “alter or abolish” a government when it becomes “destructive to these ends”…
I think the big thing to take away from the legislation, if it makes it out of committee and to the floor and passes, is that this will be part of the death by a thousand cuts legislation. A little here, a little there, and soon it will make a big deal.
Personally, I don’t have a big problem with the ID cards, heck, I’d love to by whipping out my wallet and people to see I own a gun (yes, yes, a bit childish
), but, as Kerwin pointed out, this is a State issue, and it appears as if the Feds are now going to be the controllers. And you can bet that concealed carry will be a seriously interesting portion when that is integrated.
One thing, S.W.: no matter what major pressing issues are going on, there is always time for non-important legislation. Go check out Thomas and see what piddling stuff gets submitted and/or passed. Pelosi had plenty of time to pass the most resolutions ever last year (with little actual legislation.) And it is from both parties.
Looks like a violation of states rights to me.
Unconstitutional abuse of federal power.
So, you have to go through this to get a license to drive a car?
Show me please, where the Constitution states that your right to drive a car shall not be infringed.
This bill infringes…
Obama Wants Our Guns
Fourteenth Amendment
Crandall v. Nevada, 73 U.S. (6 Wall.) 35 (1867).
CONSTITUTIONAL LAW: The Orphaned Right: The Right to Travel by Automobile,
1890-1950
Roger I. Roots, J.D., Ph.D.
Crandall v. Nevada did not say a person had a right to drive, just that people on any conveyance could not be taxed or have a fee levied on them for traveling through a state in that conveyance.
It affirmed the right to pass through states without having to pay to do so.
I find nowhere in it that states a person has a right to drive.
Try Swift v. City of Topeka
An 1890 Kansas Supreme
Court decision
or…
City of Chicago v. Banker
Illinois Court of Appeals struck down as unconstitutional.
It’s all new to me. I just started searching it and like most antiquated law, it’s interesting.
It sounds like they are trying to make criminals out of a lot of honest people.
Well.
Then the opponents to this Bill should put in an amendment to change the picture id requirement to REAL ID.
That should Kill Bill.
Thomas Jefferson defined the militia as the
able bodied men of a community armed with the weapons of their time. Their job is to assist the regular army in time of need. Now just because we have not been invaded for over two hundred years doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Further, guns are very primitive and actually fairly easy to create.
Todays technology is making this kind of legislation idiocy at the highest level.
JDredd wrote: “S.W. you don’t know anything about guns I take it? What’s an 8mm? Never heard of that handgun caliber. Ever.”
I know more about guns than about catching typos when writing late, apparently. Should’ve typed 9mm. I presume you’ve heard of a handgun of that caliber, ever?
However, you apparently know more about rushing to judgment on other commenters than about handguns. You can fill in the blank in your storehouse of knowledge here, here and here.
HTH.
Michael on January 16th, 2009 11:20 pm -
FYI – Alaska was invaded and occupied during WW2. There is a Garand in a museum in homer Ak that was found at the battle site.
Note the hypocricy of the ACLU backing this type of law. The purpose of these types of bills is to get guns out of the hands of criminals and minors. If passed it would require everyone to register their handguns. But wait if a convicted felon or an underage gang member is required to register his handgun, the conviction for breaking this law would be overturned because, as the ACLU can confirm, the Defendant’s 5th amendment right would be violated by requiring this person to admit that he was in possession of a handgun that the laws currently state he cannot possess. So the only people who could legally own an un-registered handgun would be convicted felons and minors. The very people the law is reported to be taking the guns away from. To paraphrase an old comment, The loss of the 2nd Amendment right is the first step to the loss of the other rights in the Constitution.
S.W. Anderson wrote on 16 January 2009: “… In any case, I don’t thing gun enthusiasts need to worry too much about a wave of onerous, heavy handed legislation. As mentioned, this one bill has no co-sponsors. With all the pressing economic matters to be addressed, I’d be surprised if it makes out of committee.” I think this might just be the Camels nose under the tent or the first bite we as law abiding citizens of this country need to keep watching those who have been elected to govern our country. Our neighbors to the north had a similar bill passed into law and one result was creating a very large number of citizens who did not register their firearms.
So, having to register to make use of a basic right? No big deal. Having to give up your 4th Amendment rights so the nannies can make sure you store things properly? So what. Having your personal property registered with the feds so it’ll be easier to confiscate down the road? Blah. Sign over your medical records? no problem, huh?
Just bloody wonderful. We’ve got people who have fits at the idea of showing ID to vote who have no problem with dumping a basic right into the shredder. And far too many people saying “Eh, so what?”
And please take note of E:that’s a wide-open door to let the AG decide to further restrict and ban.
This is the first step to go after our guns.
Good grief. This is outragous.
To those (only saw one on my brief pass throught the comments) that have no problem with this?
Without the right to keep and bear arms, the other amendments are USELESS. This is another unconstitutional law. The second amendment like the other NINE, are LIMITING the power and RULE of the government to CONTROL your life.
Lately I seem to take an alarmist approach to anything deemed liberal. for me any gun control is to liberal. I believe we have the right to protect ourselves and feel safe in our homes. I am a law abiding citizen, but if this bill would become law, I would be designated as a criminal over night. I think we need to be ever vigilant. Once they take our guns, they will be able to take our homes.
The best indicator of Obama’s future actions is his past voting record. He NEVER voted against one single gun control scheme during his time in the Ill legislature or the US Senate.
All I can say to liberals is, when the bad guys come up your street, don’t call me asking to borrow a gun – you’ll have missed your last chance to save your family.
i have a few points to make..
1 – Obama didn’t author or co-sponser this bill so to keep citing his name as culprit is irresponsible and ill-informing.
2 – this bill is outright unconstitutional and never expect the ACLU to actually live up to their name
3 – the 2nd amendment does protect the rest and anyone who cannot make that connection probably isn’t smart enough to be operating a firearm
4 – any felon in posession of a firearm is already breaking an unconstitutional law and knows it so worrying about their protection under the 5th is a waste of your time
5 – the people and groups that gun control is supposed to stop from owning firearms do not and have never cared if theyre breaking the law, so what’s another one broken in the end really?
6 – most americans cant even cite what most of the amendments say past freedom of speech, so the solution is for america to wake up and grow up a little bit.
7 – even if this happened to become law I will not be taking part in this registration process, they can stick it and they know where to stick said “it”
Never will I register. Right now if a officer comes to my door, I will be glad to help him with anything. But if this passes and Im subject to 10 years in jail for not registering, I will just shoot it out with the basterds.
Dear Sir’s ; Ma’am’s,
I have many times, witnessed the swearing into public office of elected officials from President , Vice President to
Congressional People to Senators, and , in every instance they swear an oath,
“SO HELP ME GOD’, that they will protect ,support, or whatever, the constitution of the United States.
Senator Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the house and Senator Blair Holt have pledged this oath. How they or any other Politician ,can sponser or introduce a Bill of this nature (HR 45) , absolutely astounds me. They have broken their sacred oath and lied before GOD. This bill flagrantly violates Gun owners 2nd amendment rights.
(WHAT IS NEXT) ?????
You know , it’s always about the money and control and this is just one more way to generate more money and control the people.
Mitchell Fortune
Yeah you need a license to DRIVE A CAR NOT TO BUY IT. You can buy any damn vehicle you want without a license.
The government has no business looking at anyones medical records. There are already laws on the books that address what they consider potentialy dangerous mental conditions.
I am really starting to think the whole ‘all Enemies foreign and domestic’ oath many of us have/will take is going to take on new demensions
look, for the children is a [edited] argument, we were all taking our own guns along on summer walks at 8-10 yeas old and without trigger locks etc and none of us were shot and killed.
If you want to do something for the children fire 90% of the teachers in this country and hire some qualified instructors
My friends, if you think the socialist agenda is something other than a premeditated assault on liberty, consider the following quote:
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.”
~Norman Thomas, six time presidential candidate on the socialist ticket and founding member of the ACLU.
Any questions?
“Crandall v. Nevada, 73 U.S. (6 Wall.) 35 (1867).”
Ha ha! I love it when legal minutiae–in this case the rough equivalent of allowing checking feathers and water to be discharged from a moving vehicle–is used as the basis for justifying selective interpretation of the Constitution. When the Supreme Court weighs in on Crandall get back to us.
Forget cars, lets talk about freedom of speech as it is the only amendment in the Bill of Rights that precedes the right to bear arms…
Where would the ACLU be if there was similar constraints put upon newscasters or bloggers? Suppose one must pass a US history and World Events exam every 5 years and must only compose publicly consumable information from systems registered with the Federal government (with analogous criminal artifacts if said devices are not reregistered upon upgrade). Or how about requiring that each page of a newspaper/magazine to be serialized and recorded for federal oversight?
After all, the pen is mightier than the sword, and we cannot have dangerous unregulated use of the English language out stirring up the masses can we?
But that is utterly absurd…unless one it talking about AM radio of course.
JDredd: I can think of two 8mm firearms off the top of my head: the 8mm Nambu semi-automatic pistol, in service with the Japanese military in WW 2, and the French Lebel rifle. I’m sure that there could be others, but those are the ones that readily come to mind.
The loss of the 2nd Amendment right is the first step to the loss of the other rights in the Constitution.
That is a good quote which i cut and pasted from above.
If this bill does not bother you, you have not read history. Read about Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Rwanda, and more. The first step is to desensitize you with legislation that eventually passed leading to a “harmless license”, then to revoking the license, then to imprisonment, then to the gas chambers. That is not being alarmist; as it has happened before, several times.
If you have not read your history well, not contacted your elected officals,or not read this bill, you have no right to complain. The2nd ammendment does not give you the right to bear arms to protect yourself from invaders, it gives you the right to protect yourself from elected officials…the former is a given….and obvious to people who take care of themselves, their families, their communities, and their country.
ALAN F IN NC
I often wonder if politicians who push these kinds of things ever condier the possibility that this government might fail? Not by any force or gun weilding citizen, but by our own death spiral into an economic abyss. You would think they would remember history. Don’t they take the old corrupt guys and shoot them? I bet Benito never thought his government would fail. Good luck with that liberals..but if it was me, I think I would hedge my bets and plan a better personal demise for myself. By the time this happens, if it does, I bet there are going to be some angry, hungry, gun totin rednecks looking for the old regime that got them there. Oh wait a minute!!! that is why they want to take our guns!!! hmmmm are they really stupid enough to think anyone who knows all this would just volunteer them to these goof balls? No wonder we are in such bad shape…we have elected blithering idiots to office. At least it most definetly wont work in TEXAS.
MOLON LABE
I will give your wife the empty cartridge of the bullet I use to blow your brains out when you come to confiscate my guns.
Lets face it, when it gets to that point, it’s all over anyway.
The Second Amendment to the Constitution as written by our nation’s Founding Fathers states that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” James Madison, the author, praised “the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost any nation.”
A look at the history of gun control confirms their insight.
· In 1911, Turkey established gun control; 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.
· In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control; more than 20 million dissidents were annihilated.
· In 1935, China established gun control and 20 million political dissidents were slaughtered.
· In 1938, Germany established gun control; 13 million Jews and others were killed.
· In 1956, Cambodia established gun control; 1 million people exterminated.
· In 1964, Guatemala established gun control; 100,000 Mayan Indians were killed.
· In 1970, Uganda established gun control; 300,000 Christians were slaughtered.
Violent crime has increased in Australia, Canada, and Great Britain following adoption of legislation restricting firearms.
Contrast this with the fact that gun ownership of U.S. citizens is at an all-time high, and “right to carry” laws have been implemented in 40 states. Violent crimes have fallen dramatically.
The most flagrant exception to this trend is in Washington, D.C., the murder capital of the U.S., and New York City, where you have the most restrictive gun control laws in the country.
The Supreme Court finally got something right when affirming RKBA as an individual right. Yes, the founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the Second Amendment. Here’s what they said:
Thomas Jefferson – Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one. “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants,” an admonition made possible by the right to bear arms of parity with those of the standing army. “On every occasion of Constitutional interpretation, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying to force what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, instead let us conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
Samuel Adams – The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
Alexander Hamilton – If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens.
Patrick Henry – The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun. Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
George Mason – To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
Justice Joseph Story – Consider the right to keep and bear arms “the palladium of the liberties of the republic,” which enables the citizenry to deter tyranny.
James Madison – “The advantage of being armed, the Americans possess over the people of all other nations. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
Noah Webster – “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every Kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power.”
Benjamin Franklin – Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Richard Henry Lee, Senator – “A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and include all men capable of bearing arms.”
These scumsucking politicians just don’t get it… but they will.
Guns are legal, and law abiding citizens have the right to own and purchase guns. Any bills, such as HR-45, would only effect law abiding citizens. This is NOT an issue for the House!
Register my guns — I don’t think so. I am a senior female and learned fire arm safety while hunting with my father and intend to keep the handguns and shotguns I own. Do I have full automatic weapons — no. Personally do not see a need for such. But that is just one persons opinion.
They, the idiots trying to get this bill pushed through, must love the Mafia.
Who sells guns and ammo to the Felons?
The Mafia.
Who
As I was saying before being so rudely interupted. Who will we, the people, be tempted to buy our guns and ammo from when we can no longer buy our guns and ammo legally? The Mafia. Who will profit from all of this? The Mafia. When looking for a cause to an effect, always follow the money. Just my opinion as a vet.
What really makes me mad is that if you a convicted felon because of some states that if you are over a certain percentage of alochol in your blood you can not own a gun. It should be that if a person uses a gun to commit a felony, then they lose their rights of gun ownership. That goes for sexual assault, drunk driving or any other felonies that arise from NOT using a gun or firearm.
I’m scared to see how many people here do not care of such a legislation. You people are giving away your freedom. Don’t you understand it? Are you blind? Are you so drunk with the TV liberal nonsense? Is all you need ball games, beer and burger? Your IQ have been shrunk by the “progressive” churches, by the politically correct TV and you accept affirmative actions as something normal.
Wake up, because tomorrow will be late. Our goverment is turning us to slaves, don’t you see it? For the lost souls who have no problems with gun registration – tomorrow will be gun control, after that – car control, after that housing control, after that – food control… Want me to continue? I’ve escape 25 years ago from place like that and I know what I’m talking about. Shame on you.
I wonder if those who say that this (licensing of firearms) is strictly a State issue ever heard of the “Commerce Clause” and the “necessary and proper clause”. How many guns are manufactured and sold within one State solely for the citizens of that State? If it moves acroos State lines it is subject to federal regulation.
P.M.
I love my guns and hate this bill as much as the next guy but all the “I’ll shoot the cops if this passes/let you and your family die from firearm violence/shoot you and give the casing to your wife” talk really makes me think I have gone to the side of the fringe crazies. Those comments don’t add to rational debate on the merits of the law; they just make the rest of us look like we are on the side of the loonies. So loonies, please stop. Thanks.
REASONABLE gun registration. PERIOD. This bill does NOT “take away ones right to own a gun”, it simply is a step toward intelligent, responsible gun ownership. You need a license to DRIVE and you need to register our CAR. GUNs should be at LEAST this well controlled. BTW, my mother was killed by an unregistered handgun. The case remains unsolved.
NRASucks stated: “REASONABLE gun registration…” Can you or anyone name ONE criminal that believes or practices “reasonable registration” of ANYTHING?! I wasn’t aware that thugs purchased their guns and ammo from the local sporting goods store. Sorry to hear about your mother, but whether the gun was registered or not would NEVER have stopped the scumbag from shooting her! The gun doesn’t know if it’s registered or not…it just fires when the shooter pulls the trigger.
“Sucks” Most Americans would be sorry to hear your mother was killed, but it was not done by an unregistered handgun. A murderer killed her. It is also likely that more of your family will be killed if the 2nd amendment is not upheld. How can anyone defend themselves and their loved ones when only criminals have guns. Look at all the statistics easily available to prove it.
Louis L’Amour has a quote: “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” As Keith and Tajin stated, your mother was killed not by a law-abiding citizen, so this law would not have stopped her death.
To SW Anderson: Obama may be against gang bangers, but this law does not affect them. They don’t get their guns legally anyway, so how does this stop them. What it does stop is law-abiding citizens who cannot protect themselves from the criminals because a law such as this is too much of a hassle, so they just won’t own a gun.
We will soon find ourselves, the law abiding citizens, at the other end of the law if this bill passes. What will we do when it is illegal to defend ourselves and our families. What’s worse, is that we have already heard of instances where a citizen, defending their home has been sued, and forced to pay damages to someone that they harmed while defending their family and their property from unlawful action. We cannot allow the government to take away this right of ours. Perhaps the president will appoint each one of us our own personal secret service detail since we won’t be able to defend ourselves.
I can understand why left-wing, fascist Rat politicians are in favor of all forms of gun control but I’ve never understood why the average left-wing person cannot see the sense of security and equalization that comes with gun ownership. Don’t you feel a need to protect yourself?
If two or three criminals kick your front door in at 3 AM, what are you going to do about it? …. tell them, “I’ve called the police. Please don’t hurt me ….” as they proceed to beat your brains out or shoot you full of holes.
It’s naive to think the police can be there to save you and unless you’re one tough s.o.b., you may not make it without a gun!
Let us make a small correction – One does NOT need a drivers license to drive a car. No state in the USA requires this – just as long as you do NOT drive on the public roads. You can drive ALL OVER your own private property….and this is exactly what you will NOT be able to do with your gun in or on your private property.
Our system in is jeopardy. The political and elite finacial minority sees the writting on the wall. They have been controlling us for some time now. They have eliminated us from the decision making processes, called the shots, robbed our economic resources, sent our factories overseas, eliminated tarrifs, all to control the world economy. Heaven forbid I hope I am not here but if changes are not made we will see an uprising in the U.S. and it will be the police and administration against us. Dire predictions I hope do not come about unless we really can find a way to take control of this government peacefully and make the decisions they have been making for us.
Its nice to see that they’re that afraid of us. They’re obviously not afraid of criminals, they are afraid of uprising. Viva la revolution.. throw the bums out!!!
The only gun control I’m interested in is how well I can aim my rifle!
Old Salt wrote;
If two or three criminals kick your front door in at 3 AM, what are you going to do about it?
What I am going to do is level a 12 gage shotgun loaded with 3″ magnum 00 buckshot and ask them to drop their guns and cash for the door and lay face down.
Sounds good Alan but my method would be to open fire on that baggy pant GARBAGE immediately and ask questions later!
It’s not likely that 3 criminals with guns, possibly high on dope, would be so willing to surrender in my opinion. However, you dust their butts with that buckshot and they’ll get the message right quick.
I’m a retired LEO. One has to only look to the writings of our founding fathers. They deplored a strong government and considered it a necessary evil for common defense. These wise men vested the power with the people. In Texas, you can carry a handgun in your vehicle. You can carry outside of your vehicle with a CHL. This bill is nothing but a gun grabbing start to disarm the American people. You cannot sit on the sidelines. Write your elected representatives and show your disapproval. The 2nd Amendment is a part of our BILL OF RIGHTS… not privileges. Ownership is an individual right, not a privilege to be rationed by the State.
the only way we make it now is total economic colapse. Most everyone in “fly over country” will survive. People on both coasts and in major cities probably wont. Then we get to start over and maybe learn something from all this. It is however a damn shame we have let our country, that so many have given thier life for, get to this stage. When the public can vote thier hand into the public check book, it’s over. We deserve what we get. FROM MY DEAD COLD HANDS THEY WILL TAKE MY GUNS.
It’s not the law abiding citizens causing illegal use of firearms to be questioned.
Wake up…..The criminals will still find ways to have guns. Not one of my guns has ever gone off without a real person behind it. The gun itself doesn’t pick what to shoot at.
We need to keep the second amendment, don’t pass this bill!
I am a young hunter and want to continue.
If this bill does pass, and it will be even more discouraging for young people to get into hunting. The idea of taking our guns, which also includes for hunting is pretty much saying that hunting should not be allowed, in that case we should shut down all the slotter house while were at it, that way all of us can be tree huggers & eat berries.
We need to keep our right to bare arms, for instance someone breaks into my house, im going need something to protect myself.
Isn’t that what the second amendment states, right to bare arm, for self defense.
If you think the police are here to defend you, what are they going to do if someone breaks into your house with a weapon, and the police are 10 minutes away, by the time they get there, you could be dead, or seriously injured.
By the time guns are outlawed, outlaws will have guns!
I have a problem with the “HR-45 bill”. If my firearm is taken away with no right to bear arms, that is actually changing our country. This country is free. If the bill passes you might as well just change the name of our country if you’re going to change the 2nd amendment. From what I’ve heard, if I do not comply with a $25.00 update, I lose my right to bear arms. You must be crazy. Maybe you need a mental test. My firearm is my property and you have no right to take away my property. Honestly, that bill is pure communism if you ask me.By the way, I’m 11 years old and like to hunt. Wow! Even an 11 year old is smarter than you. I’m talkin’ to you, democrats!!!
IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE THE PENCILS MISPELL WORDS. TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE IN THE U.K. WHEN DOES IT STOP? HOPEFULLY BEFORE IM REQUIRED TO PLUG A CORD INTO MY HEAD TO MAKE A DECISION. HAVE WE ALLOWED THEM (REPUBLICANS OR DEMACRATS, IT DOESN’T MATTER) TO LITIGATE US OUT OF COMMON SENSE? STOP WASTING MY HARD EARNED MONEY ON PENALIZING THE LAW ABBIDING AND PUT IT TOWARDS EDUCATION AND PROGRAMS TO ENHANCE THE RESPECT NEEDED TO MATURELY USE A FIREARM. AND BY THE WAY THE MAFIA IS SITTING IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
Last September A Crazed 26 year old individual That stopped taking his medication Broke into a neighbors house killing him, and stole several firearms then went on a shooting rampage in Alger Washington and killed six people including one sheriffs deputy that I knew personally Anne Jackson one grocery store clerk, two home, construction workers, the home owner that the guns were stolen from. In his efforts to escape the police during a high speed chase from a vehicle stolen from one of the victims, he shot and injured. a motorcyclist near the freeway access, then shot and killed a innocent motorist heading south on interstate five, randomly shooting at people on the freeway before being arrested in front of the county sheriffs office. His mother for years has attempted to get mental treatment for her son, And was not successful in her efforts, And he did not have the money or the financial assistance from the state, and somehow fell through the cracks in the system and was simply declared by the state not to be a high risk violent person, Well shame on the state of Washington. The system has failed us again.
In 2006 Tacoma Washington My brother was shot in the back of the head and died from a 38 special slug over $50.00 at a banks cash machine, The police never caught the shooter, Cold case file. NOW I Carry My 45 every where I go, I never leave home without it, Lets preserve the right to survive.
OH and one more thing, How do you think that Obama our messiah got to be the president of the soon to be the socialist republic of the United States? George Soros. He’s the multi- billionare that helped Obama get elected He’s the one that helped through the UN to disarm UK, Australia, and other countrys, And he wants to do us as well.
Kerwin, is driving a car mentioned in the constitution? Have you ever tried to purchase a gun or obatain a CCW permit? There are so many gun laws on the books and you have to jump through allot of hoops already. I do not have a problem with many of the laws because I feel not “everyone” should own a gun. The problem I have is that honest , law abiding citizens should not be treated this way.
Notice to whom this doesn’t apply:
3 TITLE VIII—INAPPLICABILITY
4 SEC. 801. INAPPLICABILITY TO GOVERNMENTAL 5 AUTHORITIES.
6 This Act and the amendments made by this Act shall
7 not apply to any department or agency of the United
8 States, of a State, or of a political subdivision of a State,
9 or to any official conduct of any officer or employee of
10 such a department or agency.
JDredd: “S.W. you don’t know anything about guns I take it? What’s an 8mm? Never heard of that handgun caliber. Ever.”
8mm is a common blank cal. for handguns.
The Nambu pistol is also 8mm (Japanese WWII sidearm)
The 8×50Rmm French (8 mm Lebel) rifle cartridge was the first smokeless gunpowder cartridge to be made and adopted by any country. It was introduced by France in 1886. Formed by necking down the 11 mm Gras black powder cartridge, the smokeless 8 mm Lebel cartridge started a revolution in military rifle ammunition. Standard 8mm Lebel ammunition was also the first to feature a boat-tailed bullet.
The Turkish Mauser also has an 8mm variant.
Yeah this law sounds real fair. why dont we just tack on an ammendment that says if you own a computer the police are allowed to search the computer and premises where it stands to make sure you are using properly. I hope to god this law does not pass. i will lose my already thin faith in this once great nation. One thing is for sure, if this gains any momentum, midterms will be a hellride for anyone who backs hr 45.
Now (sarcasm intended) will the government have all drug and black market arms dealers submit to photos and fingerprints?
The non infringement clause limits the Government not me. The Rights that the Constitution protects are considered to be PREEXISTING so the litmus test of tyranny is in our case GUN REGULATION.
To convert a guaranteed uninfringeable RIGHT into a PRIVLAGE is INFRINGEMENT to a T. At this point the citizens need to assert their 1st Amendment Rights while carrying our 2nd Amendment protections.
To simply accept a Federal Firearms License is to agree to the waiver of your 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendment protections. You must pay reoccurring fees along with additional taxes to support this new layer of government. That is Taxation w/out Representation. If we neglect to supply complete information then we give up our 5th Amendment and can be subject to search and seizure since that was waived in the 4th Amendment.
In the mean time the Bill of Rights is reduced to a meaningless group of express grants that can be revoked at any time for any reason since it is the 2nd Amendment that guards all of the others. They will come for you quietly in the night.
The following is way the COMMUNIST LIBERAL RATS in our society want it to be and it may be closer to reality than you think:
You’re sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way. With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it. In the darkness, you make out two shadows.
One holds something that looks like a crowbar. When the intruder brandishes it as if to hit you with it, you raise the shotgun and fire! The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside. As you pick up the phone to call police, you know you’re in trouble.
In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless. Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm. However, when you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.
“What kind of sentence will I get?” you ask. The attorney replies, “Only 10 to 12 years” as if that’s nothing! Then he says, “Behave yourself, and you’ll be out in 7.”
…… continued below
…… continued from above
The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you’re portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can’t find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both “victims” have been arrrested numerous times. BUT the next day’s headline says it all: “Lovable Son Didn’t Deserve to Die.” The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters. As the days wear on, the story spreads like wildfire. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero!
Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he’ll probably win. The media scum publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you’ve been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.
A few months later you go to trial. The charges have not been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted! When you take the stand, your anger works against you and prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful sneaky man. It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict you of ALL the charges.
The judge sentences you to life in prison.
This case really happened! Not here in the U.S. but over in England. On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk, England, killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a LIFE term.
This just goes to show you how far the disease of liberalism can affect and ruin a country. WAKE UP AMERICA! Fight against these twisted COMMUNIST LIBERAL RATS anyplace they rear their ugly heads; legally with your votes and verbally with your opinions!
There are a number of problems with this bill to consider.
First and most importantly, it doesn’t do anything to address the issue if illegally acquired and used firearms by criminals and gang members. Some may say that it is a long term resolution to that end but we are talking really really long term here. Honestly, what is the lifespan of a firearm? Many decades, if properly cared for…more than a century in some cases. I personally own a rifle made in 1899 that still fires safely and accurately.
Why is it that Liberals have spent so many years attempting to control guns owned by Law Abiding citizens with hard politics but their best efforts to get illegal guns off the streets is to have a once a year ‘Shoes for Guns’ street trade (or some similarly ridiculous BS effort).
Secondly, it creates a National Database of semi-automatic firearms owners that could be used for any number of purposes, most of which would be anti-Constitutional. A few examples….
a. There is a shooting in a neighboring community involving a 9mm semi-automatic pistol. You are in the database as owning such a gun. You are contacted by the local authorities, bombarded with invasive questions and possibly even required to ‘prove’ you weren’t involved by submitting your firearm to the local authorities for an undisclosed period of time for ballistic testing. You might get it back in a month, or a few months, if it doesn’t mysteriously disappear while in their possession.
B. Various organizations and institutions (i.e. colleges, grade schools, volunteer facilities, employers, etc.) require you to report if you are a licensed firearm owner, or possibly gain access to such information through the Freedom of Information ACT, and are able to discriminate against individuals (on both sides of the gun issue) for their position on the issue.
C. There is a ‘worst case’ scenario within the United States and a ‘State of Civil Unrest’ is declared. For those that know anything about FEMA, this is a scary concept…especially now that they will have a list of all the owners of semi-auto weapons and exactly how many and what types they own… not to mention their most current address (as this is a requirement of the bill to maintain a license). I wont go into details on this for those that aren’t familiar with the granted authority of FEMA.
D. (AND YES THIS IS WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD) but in the extremely unlikely event of an attack by a foreign invader on our soil, and the even more unlikely event that this invader were to succeed…well, guess what? They know who you are, what you own and how much of threat you really poss to them. They will be coming to visit you.
It’s easy to say, ‘Well, lets see if it makes out of committee before we make any noise.’ Let’s not forget that our countries Revolution was able to blast out of left field because of the lackadaisical attitudes that England took towards the initial whispers and rumors of dissent and displeasure. Lucky for us, but let’s not make the same mistakes!
Anyone who thinks that this ACT is morally right or seemingly unimportant is sadly mistaken. This is the beginning of Authoritarian Control of the people to ensure that there is a controllable level of resistance in the event of a Governmental COUP of the Democratic System. Considering that most of our new Presidential TEAM players are Radical Liberals (at best) and at worst are down right Socialists, this is a very real possibility in the future. Mind you… all those that are going to jump on the debate bandwagon, I said possibility… not likelihood.
Ok.. maybe not the Freedom of Information ACT but I think the spirit of the point was there.
Back to where we are and have been. Crimnals will not register weapons. Does this mean if they are caught in the commission of criminal activity and they have an unlicensed and unregistered weapon in their possession, they will get 25 years hard labor with no consideration for parole? Not likely.
Check the history for the Attack by the Japanese on December 7, 1941. Why did they have 50,000 Japanese Marines with the task force? Hmmm, I have read they were to land in the Los Angeles area of CA to start the invasion of the United States.
Why did they not do that. The Admiral knew that about 85% of the Americans had at least one gun in the house. They could not take on 50,000,000 Americans with guns.
Get the hell out of my world.
Perhaps its time to draw the proverbial “line in the sand”. It’s easy to haul off one guy at a time when they splash his face across the prime time news as an accused drug dealer or pedophile, who would even think about going to his rescue. Better get organized even informally with 5-6 guys, and each one of them get with 5-6 guys in a continuous chain of people who have already decided their line in the sand is behind draconian registration schemes, rediculous ammo taxes or outright confiscation.
This bill requires owners to take a lengthy test on safety, storage and how to handle weapons around children? How about ACLU members and pretty much every politician in Washington take an exam on the Bill of Rights and the historical impact of Gun Control in other countries. Tighten the reigns on the criminals and the black market and leave few of us that still consider ourselves free Americans the HELL alone!!!!
SARAH PALIN FOR PRESIDENT 2012
Everyone calm down. This is not going anywhere. Even IF the bill EVER passed the House, which is extremely unlikely, it could never pass the Senate. Democratic Senators from my home state of Virginia, Webb and Warner, as well as Tester of Montana, and at least 6 others, would never vote for such a law. That being said, it is troubling.
– A gun toting Democrat from the Commonwealth of Virginia–
WOLVERINES!
David Cannon wrote:
“Everyone calm done.”
Calm down? I beg to differ.
Calming down is what the RATS ON THE LEFT want people to do.
In my opinion it’s best to react with overkill against the slightest gun control legislation the power grabbin’ Rats can come up with. Otherwise, a gun control law that you may not like may get passed right under your nose! There’s no guarantee how any of the politicians will vote.
Use your weapons to FIGHT !!! Calm down?! This is the first step towards CONFISCATION of your firearms!!! Socialism !!! Get ready to fight and use your firearms against the Gestapo bastards !!!
This is the type of stuff that leads to Civil War.
Chance wrote “This is the stuff that leads to Civil War.”
No, what leads to civil war is a far left liberal poilitician that thinks they have the right to tell me, a law abiding citizen of the U.S. for my whole life (except for those pesky little speeding tickets) and a veteran who spent 29 yrs in the military (1967 – 1996,in every part of the world) that I have to register ALL my weapons. I don’t think so. This law is a total abrogation of the 2nd Amendment. And if anyone here has been reading the threads I believe the best and most informative is the one from – anarky99 on January 30th, 2009 11:01 pm. Lays it out very well. If it has gotten to the point in this great nation that we allow ourselves to be bullied by out Senators and Representatives, people that WE elect, then I have no more respect for that person. I already have very little respect for my so-called representatives. They neither represent nor respect me since they care not for what my (and our) wishes are. They simply vote as they wish. Perhaps we should encourage our gun manufacturers to give huge sums of money to these slimebags’ re-election campaigns. Maybe that would change some of their minds. But, then you have Queen Pelosi who has the divine authority to speak for me. So, we lose either way. Unless we all voice our concerns and dislikes to our elected officials They all have websites to which you can email your displeasure – and should.
you have never heard of 8mm?? looks like YOU know nothing about firearms!!
Both pistol AND rifle come in 8mm! Different bullet, same size!
If the country is going broke and everyone is in such a hurry to fix the money problem, except two, with unsigned backers. The militia in Montana is legal and the US Attorney said it would take more than one person to be a militia. I smell a large pile of lies upon lies. The Demos and Libs, socialists, communists would all like my name and address so WHEN the time comes they can come in and kill me, thats the only way they will get my guns. If you happen to read this POS it says the US gov. can come into any area used to store guns. Sounds like my house, my neighbors, my sons, daughters, and all my friends. Go ahead roll over and get it where it belongs. A little story, a State trooper was caught with his weapon still holstered was faced by two men with their guns pointed at him. He gave up his duty pistol as he was told to do. The two made him pull down his trousers and you can guess what happened. This is a true story. I will not drop my pants for anyone. You can back up with your pants down or fight back and take your chances.
All of my appointed representatives all know my feelings about this bill and what would happen in this country if the bill passed. Remember Freedom is not FREE.
Semper Fi
The difference between gun ownership and driving a car:
Owning a gun is my (constitutional) right.
Driving a car is a privilege.
Sponsor: Rep Rush, Bobby L. [IL-1] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 2/9/2009 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.
c/o thomas.loc.gov
MY GOODNESS ARE WE ALL BLIND AS TO WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO DO. THEY ARE CIRCUMVENTING THE CONSTITUTION IN ANY WAY THEY CAN AND WE ARE SITTING BACK SAYING THEY WILL NOT DO THIS. bUT GUESS WHAT THEY WILL AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE APATHETIC AS USUAL/ WE NEED ANOTHER BOSTON TEA PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY!!!! WAKE UP JEAN
Unlike what Bush would have done? Seriously? After 8 years of watching our Bill of Rights being stripped bare, NOW you people get your dander up? This is the final straw, the final right to be taken away, and you people have sat there, waving your stupid little made in China American flags while they destroyed this country and took away our rights. I hope they take away our guns just to spite you idiots.
So, Jim, what Rights have you lost? Please be specific. Or, do you just have talking points with no knowledge?
To See the Left-
The only way a law can pass “under your nose” is if you are not paying attention. We are a nation of laws, and it takes a specific set of circumstances for a bill to become law. It takes 60 votes in the Senate for anything to become law, not 51. Are you interested in having a debate, or spreading fear? This law will never even COME TO A VOTE– So yes, calm down. As for the Gestapo bastards quote, that is laughable. Do you really believe firearm confiscation is possible in this country? I guess it is easier for some to demagogue than bother to learn exactly how things become law in this country. So take a breath, and try to argue your point rationally–we might listen.
Addendum–
Sorry Left–yours was not the Gestapo comment. Got overwhelmed by all the paranoia, and it all ran together.
It happens I agree with the comment by Jim. We have our constitution to protect us in dangerous times, not just times of peace. The Bush administration did play fast and loose with it since September 11th, 2001. It has now become clear that, despite claims to the contrary, it was in fact law abiding Americans whose conversations were wiretapped. Those who are quick to get up in arms over attacks on the 2nd Amendment are noticeably silent on the other Bill of Rights. Why is this?
Gentlemen. Hunt down this legislation. It is easy to find. HR 45. Bobby Rush of Illinois wrote this garbage. One of the most onerous bits is that an American citizen will be forced to ask permission of the AG to keep a firearm they have had for years. I can easily see where there will be LOTS of applications denied for what ever reason. Then the AG now has all your information and you are in possession of a firearm without their permission. Since when do we the taxpaying, law abiding, natural born citizens have to ASK permission of anyone to exercise out Constitutional rights?
My government trusted me while in the service to carry a M-16 and a .45 sidearm in defense of the country. But now they don’t trust me to defend my family and property from the bad guys? Hell, I got some of the best training in the world. Now I am a bad guy? Stock up on ammo, practice with your favorite firearms and practice civil disobedience. I live in a border state and with the possible collapse of Mexico, I have no confidence in our guy who occupies the White House to do anything about it. We will be on our own. I know the Bill of Rights and intend on living under them.
Good luck to you all. There are MANY more of us out here than you think.
I would like to remind people that this would be the first step toward what Hitler did. I think many of our government “leaders” strongly resemble Hitler and communists. Is this what the real people of America truly want? I am a gun owner and believe me I’ll do anything to hold onto them and my freedom.
David Cannon wrote: “The only way a law can pass ‘under your nose’ is if you are not paying attention.”
I disagree. A politician is at liberty to vote ANYWAY they see fit whether you’re paying attention or not. Quite often I have heard media people over the years make comments like this after a bill became law: “We were quite shocked that Sen. So-in-so voted the way he did.”
And by calming down or with a non-passionate lackadaisical attitude a politician may see it as “Looks like they’re o.k. with it. It doesn’t seem to upset them. Let’s proceed.”
And Yes, I am interested in spreading fear; fear of what the RATS ON THE LEFT are capable of as they seek ways to drive our country toward total communism and wreck our freedoms under the guise of “We know what’s best for you.”
And last but not least, your comments have overtones of you being a liberal yourself. The more you speak the easier it is to see.
man this whole thing sucks, i’m for defending my home, as well as my country, but you can take the sack of (edited) we call our leaders examine their brains and backgrounds and realize that even with an IQ of 120 our commander in chief would be disqualified from owning a gun (i meant legally purchasing and owning a gun) along with most of the kennedys, clintons etc.etc.
they have had s.s. to protect them at an instance notice. where is my protection! well i’d have to say wherever i choose to keep it.just last week two tweekers in a stolen car out of portland, hit and run on a local vehicle and ran from police, winding up in my in-laws drive way hiding. they are lucky the cops got them first. im not taking chances, less than 100 yards from their front door and about 200 yards from mine. had the conditions been gangsters on foot. my rights should be inacted, panic sets into the criminal mind and everyone one the property could be hostage or killed by accident had perps entered our homes. thanks to deschutes co officers both were apprehended w/o such an incident. i’m prepared and that dont mean premeditation, it’s called proactive or preparedness. prepare yourselves, as good as our forces are they unfortunatly cant be everywhere all of the time! ONCE AGAIN KEEP IN MIND VERY FEW OF THOSE IN WASHINGTON QUALIFY TO OWN AND POSSESS UNDER CURRENT LAW! DO YOU THINK THEY WONT BE EXEMPT FROM THE NEW LAWS.BAAAAH! MOST ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION, HAVE BEEN INDICTED IN THE PAST, ABUSED DRUGS AND OR ALCOHOL.KILLED OTHERS WHILE DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE. I MEAN REALLY TRY TO FIND ONE THAT WOULD MAKE AN ACCEPABLE APPLICANT UNDER NEW AS WELL AS EXISTING LAW! I’M LAUGHING SO HARD THAT MY HOLSTER MAY NEED TO BE CHECKED AND SECURED BEFORE I LEAVE MY POST. GOTTA BE SAFE “DON’T-YA- KNOW
SARAH PALIN / CONDOLISA RICE IN 2012
Got to reiterate what Tom says:
The 2nd is designed to help citizens retake the government should it become a state ‘not of the people’.
I’ve seen 8mm rifles, but never in a common pistol cartridge. That is one reason why folks who don’t know guns should not have a say in how firearm legislation is crafted.
Bobby Rush didn’t have a problem with guns when he was a member of the Black Panthers.
Nobody should ever want war. But one thing’s for certain ….. a civil war between the Liberal Left and the Conservative Right would clear this country up!
If the Right wins, America can be restored to its previous glory of traditional family values, love of God and country, freedom, general decency and common sense. Government’s main purpose would be to maintain order and protect and defend the United States. All free-loaders would be knocked off the government sugar-tit!
If the Left wins….. they can cope with the constraints of communism, wallow in their liberalism and continue their search for happiness with the left-wing’s confusion of what’s right is wrong and what’s wrong is right; including an unlimited tolerance for various forms of human behavior that outrages tradition ….. that is until they all die and go to Hell.
I will not be registering any of mine. If this passes, I don’t think most will comply. Also, The Congress would be placing police offocers in harm’s way by making them enforce an unconstitutional law (a law that deprives people of a right many will defend to the death).
The biggest problem is that ONLY the law abiding citizens would actually comply, after all who’s killing who out there…pretty much the criminals are killing each other.
The “calm down” fellow above, David Cannon, said, “It takes 60 votes in the Senate for anything to become law, not 51.”
WRONG!
Not only is 51 enough, it is also possible that laws can be passed with fewer than 51!
The Constitution provides that a majority of the Senate (51) constitutes a quorum to do business and in turn, in most cases, a simple majority of this 51 is all that is needed to pass a law. Under the rules and customs of the Senate, a quorum is always assumed to be present unless a quorum call by one of the senators explicitly demonstrates otherwise. This allows for the possibility of a vote taking place without a quorum present if all of those present agree to it; not the most ideal of situations for a democratic government. Therefore, in effect, laws could be passed with fewer people present than a quorum!
The requirement of 60 members of the Senate is for the power to override a filibuster, not pass laws. This ending of a filibuster (talk ‘em to death) is known as cloture. In most cases, cloture requires the support of 3/5 of the Senate (60).
1. join the NRA
2. to the hippies, druggies,alcu lawyers,politicians,criminals or dumocrats who truely believe that it is best not to speak up or question our government intentions, ask the millions of humans that walked into the nazi gas chambers, believing they were going to take a shower,if maybe they should have questioned, what is going on? Also, pol pots cambodia,viet nam after we lost,thanks to the news media and libs, stalins russia,or any other regime that people just accepted death as a way of Life?
3.Can’t happen here, just read the above.
4.can’t happen here, look to Austrailia,Britain and Canada. At least the Cananadians stood up to the unjust rules, at least western Canada.
5.Has anyone heard of the New world order of George soros and the mighty UN? Rebecca peters? The ultra left of pelosi, reid,obama,kennedy, by the way, whos’ car has killed more people than my guns,mcCarthy, boxer,chucky shumer, h. clinton and the other wackos’ who know what is best for us, WE THE PEOPLE! Watch your backs, as they want to take very good care of us.
6.They want to take us down a road that if they succeed, will be the end of America as we know it.OH yeah, change you can belive in!
7.The ones I truely hurt for is the brave young men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice and service to our country in all the wars and conflicts only to see now what is going on with our? government. They deserve better than what we are getting now.
8. Arent there any good lawyers left out there willing to stand up against the alcu and our politicians?
9. It is like an ice chisel,slowly chipping away at an ice chunk, eventually there will nothing left if no one watches it.
10. Can’t happen here?
Why is it that the Democrats hate the second amendment so much? Its because that one amendment stands in their way of total control of all of us. Every democrat I have ever met seems to think they know how we should all live, that their way is best for all.
Look at what they have given us, Taxes on our income which is actually slavery, they gave our ability to print/coin our own money to the Federal Reserve which if you check it out you will find they are a bunch of private banks. They got us into WW1, WW2, the Korean war, the Vietnam war. They FORCED through “Selective Service” our kids to battle and got many many more of them killed than George Bush ever did.
They increased the size of goverment to tyranical proportions, in 1933 they stole all our gold. The gold in fort knox is owned by the Federal Reserve not the citizens of the united States of America, even though it was ours to begin with. They give our hard earned money away to people too lazy to work. They took prayer out of school to make us into a godless society. (madeline murray o’hare and son did get their just payback though).
They call the USA a “democracy” when we actually started out as a “constitutional republic”, say the pledge of allegience,it does not say “to the democracy for which we stand” does it? Abortion kills more lives than my guns ever will. Socialism, communism, democrats are all the same thing.
Well, this is a big issue if passed. No one has a right to drive a car. A person has the “privalege” to drive a car. The Supreme Court last June ruled that the 2nd Amendment guarantees an individual the right to own and possess guns and that this right shall not be infringed. This HR 45 is nothing short of what happened in Germany prior to Hitler’s facist takeover of that country. First it was to tell you what kind of guns you could or couldn’t own, then federal registration, then confiscation. Soon thereafter……well, we all know the rest of the story!!!
All this talk seems to do little good, but also no harm. None of it seems to result in any action. I just got back from my local police department where I filled out a “Concealed Pistol Licence Application”. That is mt protest against HR-45. I want to be sure I am protected when someone comes to my door to take away my arms.
Good job neal, I did the same thing. I live on the oregon side of the columbia river but I applied for a washington concealed permit in addition to my oregon permit. Every gun owner should get a permit to carry if they want to be in a position to protect themselves when they leave their castle.
To all,
Much of what I have read this morning is a well and good. Lively debate is good and well in all things. However, actions speaks louder than words…..
Today we are ran….the Government…by men and women of no practicle sense….almost all are lawyers of some sort … there in lies the problem…the lawyers have been allowed to run this country for years upon years with no set limit on their terms of public service….thus is why this union is in the toilet as it is…..untill there is limits to power and control things will never change….so long as the so called leaders of this country are allowed to continue to rule in the length of time and manner in which the rule, nothing will change……keep your arms cocked, locked and ready to rock……cause it is coming….a wise prophet once wrote “If you are prepared you need not fear…Vote out the lawyers is the only way to save this union…peaceably….if not….then KILL THEM ALL……
Another gun cotrol bill by some stupid liberal politician which will never ever work whats realy needed is politician control especialy liberal lunkheads like him and as for crinimals who misuse faire arms it should be a manadory 50 to 60 years in federal prison for any armed robbery and absolutly no plea bargins and no parole and no releases they should finish their sentence and bar them from filing any stupid lawsuits becuase their thanksgiving turkey was too grisly they got themselves in there when they commited their crimes they have noone to blame but themselves
just heard hr 45 was folded into the stimulus bill ,and as soon as obama signs it ,it’s law ,,no debate ,no hearings or anything ,,not sure if this true ,,does anyone know?
Bob J. would this really surprise anyone? Nobody read the new stimulus bill, they wouldn’t have had time. This is the new way of change we can believe in with the dumocrats/lawyers running, pardon the pun, but, hog wild! I am in utter disbelief that these so called intelligent congressmen could write a 1000 page bill and not know what is in it? Ah, but maybe they did as more of this is pork/aka/ gov. spending than substinence. The new way of doing things the dumocratic way and process. Sneak, decieve and lie then put it in, then no one will know. They’ve been planning this for years and now they can accomplish thier new world order.Like I said before, join the NRA and at least we can have some type of representation for the law abiding gun owners of America!
Bob J., if you believe that, I have a bridge I’ll sell you … cheap.
If that H.R.45 rumor were true, the MEDIA SCUM on CNN, NBC, ABC, etc. would be foaming at the mouth and broadcasting that information LIKE A FOGHORN!
And so it begins, the downfall of our liberties. I have nothing but contempt for those who hail Obama as a savior.
There was a time when I would have beern okay with him as a president. A time when I would have considered myself a Democrat. That time has long since passed.
Revolution is almost definately imminent. When it occurs, I don’t know. If it occurs, I am certain of. My rights, my basic rights given to me as a citizen of the United States of America shall not be impeded in any way.
Don’t bother sending me a message.
Go look up TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311 and you will find today’s legal defintion of the militia. Please not it includes the unorganized militia! Thus the militia only claim for the 2nd is BOGUS!
This bill is nothing less than a feel good attack on law abiding citizens, not an uncommon thing in today’s world of Democraps (and some Republicraps also) who think they are above those who pay their salary.
If they decide to make me a criminal, they need plans….
well glen beck must have told an untruth then as it was he who allegedly first reported on it ,,but i am like you guys ,i would think if true ,the rest of them would have been having gigantic orgasms ,, also nra said it is a rumor,on their site, and not true. so its a wait and see.lets hope not true. however better be on watch as they’ll maybe try to pull something like this. down the road .
Dems are for gun control, Reps are for nation control. Either way we’re doomed. They will eventually be taking your guns. Period. This is what the planned bankruptcy is all about… martial law. Then and only then will it be easy for “them” to totally erase the freedoms for which we think we have. I just don’t know what to do about it other than hope in congress.
It appears that “they” are erasing all borders.
Since 9/11 -This country has become a Police state. Under Homeland Security lawful citizens have been put in jail. Now the Police have the power to pull you over anytime they like.Probable Cause ? You crossed the yellow.Your word against a Police Officer? Never happen. Every day we see Police Officers getting caught breaking the law they are sworn to uphold. They can search your person or your house or property on a whim.This bill is just another step in the plan. Be afraid people,be alert or we will lose it all.Be assured that the government watches over sites such as this.Do not give out too much information .
It is not far fetched.We lost a lot on 9/11
and are losing more everyday.Paranoid ? No realistic.
if anyone is hoping for congress to vote against this, don’t hold your breath… the leaders of this country are so focused on ratings and going with the majority the ignorant sons of (edited) have long forgotten about the well being of this country they vote how they want and not how the people they represent want them to, this is the only flaw the Founding Fathers didn’t see because of political corruption and not even constitutional rights to have guns but God given, because after all these years of being able to own guns and now the morons want to take it all away it’s flatout bull(edited) and this people need to be voted out but then again who in the hell will take a stand for this great group of gunowners and gunsportsman if you will.
Obama wants our guns and will do anything he can right along with the rest of congress and it’s a damn shame that they can’t just leave us alone and ultimately start a war as it will in the end . They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.
Take it from an old 77 year old newspaper guy.It can and does happen. It seems to be all about getting reelected. The most honest person, and there have been some as we all know, when running for office the first time, all the great enthusiasm. The very first day they are in office they start thinking about getting reelected. All the stops are pulled. From that time on, the name of the game is to stay in office and make money, “after all I spent a lot of my own hard cash and time to get here and I might add, without a lot of help from the people I’m supposed to be working for, might as well make the best of it. And besides if I don’t go along with this bill,I won’t get appointed to that committee I’ve been wanting.” Soon it’s ” I’ve got a lot of friends here and they’ve always looked out for me, helped me get reelected, shoved a good amount of money my way and now I think I aught to help them. Well I don’t really know what’s in this bill, haven’t had time to read it but they know what they’re doing, I’ll go along because I have to depend on them to get my bill passed.
As someone mentioned before,the government is now filled with lawyers and longtimers. A lot of people think that a representative is much more effective for their district if he or she has a long standing with their office which is true in most cases, given the right attitude and reason for being there. It’s when they become more dedicated to their friends than their constituency that things began to go sower.
I have long been for term limits for all representatives for both houses. I think it’s imperative we do that sooner than later. I can see where this would break up that “good ol buddy” situation and also to get rid of some of the committees that a lot of the bills are actually passed in, sometimes without debate, just as we have just seen in the so called stimulus bill just passed. THAT’S MY OPINION… FINIS
SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THE 2ND AMMENDMENT “GIVES” US THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. NO SO, THAT RIGHT EXISTED FROM THE TIME OF THE CAVES. THE BILL OF RIGHTS JUST COMFIRMED THAT RIGHT.
A driver’s license IS NOT a constitutional right. Apples and Oranges.
I am a firm beleiver that if you take the guns of the common man/woman, you do only 1 thing.
Make criminals the only citizens armed. Black market will always keep them in guns.
For all you that are not bothered by this bill, I have this quote.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
And this quote.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.
Once you read those ask yourself this.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?
And for those that understand, I have this quote.
They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed….
Lets take this to the extreme…Say they ban all guns in the U.S. ok
Isn’t all drugs banned in the U.S. right now?
Can you get drugs in the U.S. almost in every grade school or at least high school.
Do you anti gun people get it? Why do you think they call them CRIMINALS…the criminals would love to see this passed. They don’t worry about laws. This is just to control law abiding citizens. WAKE UP!!!!
Tom,
Here are more quotes you may or may not have…
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344.
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“The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world not destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them … the weak will become prey to the strong.”
Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War
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“Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust their people with arms.” — JAMES MADISON
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“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms . . .” — SAMUEL ADAMS
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“When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually…I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor…”
George Mason, Virginia Constitution Convention
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“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.”
Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787)
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“Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”
Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
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“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves … and include all men capable of bearing arms.”
Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress
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“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms…”
Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress
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“Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts
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“The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that is good.” — GEORGE WASHINGTON
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“A free people ought not only to be armed…” — GEORGE WASHINGTON
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“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.” — PATRICK HENRY
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“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” — PATRICK HENRY
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“The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.” — ALEXANDER HAMILTON
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“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.” — Thomas Jefferson
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“… God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty…. And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)
They can have my 8mm.
beware bills like HR 45 being tacked onto or buried in other larger more popular bills that will pass.
I have been putting this off for some time now. The only weapon I own is my grandfather’s Winchester pump action 22 Cal. rifle which I inherited. Now I am going to purchase my Smith and Wesson M&P 40 Cal. semi-automatic. I have had it with these sleeze balls in the House and Senate who think they can override the Constitution by statute.
As I stated before, I have been putting this purchase off, but after this evening 16 Feb 2009, I have no choice.
You guys want my weapons? AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN! I take the First and Second Amendments of the COTUS and all the other amendments quite seriously and literally.
I know a few people that have said if the goverment knocked on their door for their guns they wold hand them out just as soon as they knocked. personally i would like to think i wouldnt shoot a fellow american but if it comes down to them coming into my home and grabbing my gunns they will get my ammunition first. Another thought who are they gonna get to disarm this country because the goverment officials that voted on this sure wont be the ones to do it so then youre looking at the military which theres an awful lot of soldiers (God bless and watch over them) that own guns. This creates a big problem for everyone because if you resist or shoot someone this could and in my opinion will be considered a type of treason or whatever you want to call it but you are looking at alot of other issues.
well we still got pitchforks and torches left
Remain prepared at all times. When you must clean your gun, keep another one in a ready state.
hi-tek-rednek:
The only treason being committed is by the person who comes to take you gun. We have a right to defend what is ours. The way to stop this is to organize. Once organized we need to make sure the government knows we will exercise our 2nd Amendment right if threatened. Our power is in numbers and theirs is fear. It is
*almosttime to man up and prove that you are a patriot. If not then it is time for you to bend over and take *(it) like a woman. It is that simple.*edited
loboinok :
I had a bunch of them. Just didn’t want to take up that much space.
Kerwin –
Carl Marx said that Socialism is the transition between Democracy and Communism. So far, the Supreme Court has stated that owning a gun is (constitutional) Right. Driving a car is a privilege the state grants us. HUGH difference between Rights and Privileges. One is guaranteed by the Constitution, the other is “Allowed” by the state. Obama is a Socialist, if not an outright Marxist. He will continue his policies of Government control of banks, large industry, and health care. He will stack the Supreme Court with Justices that will eventually further limit and restrict the rights our fore fathers fought and died for. And most of us feel that the 50,000 lives lost in Viet Nam was a waste. If we are not careful, by the end of Obama’s term, the rights we and our fathers have enjoyed will be by permission of the new Government. No longer rights, but privileges. Millions have died for us to enjoy the rights we have. However, if Paul Revere were to make his ride today calling “To arms. To arms. The Communists are coming.” With the apathy that exists in this Country today, I fear that the only reaction by the public would be, that someone would dial 911 to report some idiot riding a horse and yelling.
Mustanger:
I think you would be surprised how many are waiting for that call. Remember the Revolution was started with less than a 1/3 supporting it.
yeah – here is the guy trying to pass this. Former “Black Panther”. Was arrested himself.
Washington, DC. —- (July 15, 2004) – Congressman Bobby Rush was arrested today at 12:50 p.m. in front of the Sudan Embassy by the United States Secret Service. Rep. Rush follows former Congressman Bob Edgar, now the President of the National Council of Churches, who was arrested Wednesday (July 14) and New York Congressman Charles B. Rangel who was arrested Tuesday (July 13).
Rep. Rush marched on the sidewalk in front of the Embassy with 50 other protesters before he walked up the steps to the doorway of the Sudanese Embassy. The Congressman was asked to leave twice by uniformed Secret Service officers and he refused. He was then handcuffed and taken in a paddy wagon to D.C.’s Third District Police station.
Rep. Rush is lending his voice to the cries of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) and other international protesters in demanding the Sudanese government end its support of the militia who are murdering hundreds of people a day. The protesters are demanding an end to the genocide in Sudan. The CBC is demanding sanctions against the government of Sudan. Last week former Congressman Walter Fauntroy and talk show host Joe Madison were arrested. High profile arrests will continue until the world community wakes up.
In addition to the arrests, radio talk show host and civil rights leader, Joe Madison entered the third day of a hunger strike. Madison demands an immediate end to the Sudanese government’s obstruction of humanitarian aid to victims of the Sudanese genocide.
The Sudan Campaign calls on the Security Council of the United Nations to adopt Chapter 7 sanctions on Sudan, to suspend the membership of the government for Sudan on the U. N. Human Rights Commission, and to enable slave and other victims of the Sudanese government’s declared jihad against Black Africans to return to their homes.
This year marks Congressman Rush’s tenth year and his sixth term in the U.S. Congress. Snce his election on November 3, 1992, to the U.S. Congress, representing the First Congressional District of Illinois, his political effectiveness has been recognized by the Democratic leadership, his congressional colleagues and most importantly, by his congressional constituents.
The Sudan Campaign is the direct action effort of a coalition of organizations working on behalf black Africans in Sudan that have suffered violence and slavery at the hands of their government. Partner organizations include The Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House, the Institute on Religion and Democracy, the American Anti-slavery group, the Wilberforce Project and others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Rush
Tom,
When it comes to the 2nd amendment, take up as much space as you like…if you need more I’ll provide it!
KYPD
Where is the ACLU??? What if a person were reauired to get a license to give a speech, print an editorial or give a news report in the media, or have to get a license to prove membership in a church? Would they ACLU get involved then??? Too many people have their heads in the sand. Americans must stand up and say enough is enough… NO MORE INFRINGEMENTS ON OUR RIGHTS!!!
Can we, as gun-owners, stop with this blame the “FAR LEFT” nonsense? I am part of the FAR LEFT and I am against ALL gun control. I think we ought to be able to purchase fully automatic weapons and Surface-to-Air missiles.
It is the ersatz left i.e., ‘LIBERALS’ that want to ban guns– and frankly gun control is like many other government intrusions into people’s lives (e.g., drug laws, sex-laws, et.al.)– that is to say, usually the domain of RIGHT-WING FASCISTS (Ronnie REAGAN was in favor of Gun Control in CA when the Black Panthers were exercising their 2nd Amendment rights BTW. REAGAN was a Fascist). Lately the Neo-Fascists in the Democratic party are the ones championing Gun-Control, but they are not real LEFTISTS. They are Democrats. There is a huge difference.
The non-libertarian right (i.e., most of the GOP) is in favor of all kinds of government intrusion into our lives if they think it offends their (non-existent) god. So banning gay-sex, or drugs, or tattoo-shops in the city limits is the work of right-wing conservatives 9 out of 10 times. Therefore I suggest the right stop pretending it’s the FAR LEFT that is trying to use the government to control our lives. The establishment-RIGHT is more guilty of using the STATE to control us than the REAL Left (not ‘liberals, mind you— but REAL LEFTISTS, like me!)…
The REAL left in this country is very very PRO-GUN (I am a RMGO member by the way; an NRA member; and a member of the ACLU). We are a small minority but I am sick of hearing all this nonsense about the ‘far-left’ being anti-gun. It is NOT true. Pelosi is not FAR LEFT she is a pusillanimous liberal with some fascistic tendencies vis-a-vis guns. Obama is no friend to the real LEFT. I didn’t vote for him.
Lastly, Che Guevara was not anti-gun. Nelson Mandela is not anti-gun. Radical leftist and author Sgt Stan Goff (US Army; SF/Delta Force operator; RET) is not anti gun. Thomas Jefferson was not anti-gun. Thomas Paine was not anti-gun. All these people are/were genuine leftists. ALL of them are/were pro-gun and for the right reasons: as a bulwark against tyranny.
Lock & load!
the usurpation and infringements of our constitutional rights and liberties under the pretense of health and safety and “regulation” is obvious, this government is corrupt and the eventual initiation of a police state is clear, I suggest we prepare…….
Passage of this bill would have very much the same effect as prohibition. It’s all supply and demand.
Current law-abiding citizens will become criminals overnight as many, if not most will refuse to register.
Firearm theft will increase dramatically as the black market prices will provide the demand…and homes will be a primary supply target.
Finally, organized crime will flurish and grow to meet the demand for black market goods.
Why is it that everything in the constitution is about individual rights, but when it comes to the 2nd amendment, it’s about a state and a militia. The 2nd amendment is the most inportant right we have because it guarantees the rest of OUR rights. Politicians make a pledge to protect the constitution when they take office, well seems to me when ever they go after a right of ours they break that pledge, maybe some jail time would be in order.
your supose to register guns lol.
In reference to the subject of the requirement for a driver’s license… I live in a rural area… in order to get groceries, get to work etc… I HAVE to drive… there is NO public transportation here. To be denied the basic human right to earn a living, obtain food etc. is immoral, and as these activities pertain to “Life, Liberty etc. they are God given rights not privileges granted by the government and as such are not subject to regulation by ANY government, State or Federal. The driver’s licensing system was originally intended to regulate commercial drivers… but just like the Tax Code/Income Tax, it has been perverted and unconstitutionally used to regulate and tax the activities of ordinary citizens. FYI: The Income tax was originally intended to tax the profits of Corporations, not to tax the earnings of the Citizens of the United States. Monetary contributions to Politicians and their campaigns by Corporations and their Lobbyists have changed all that…
It seems that at some point there will have to be a confrontation with the Federal Government to re-establish the facts regarding our inherent God given rights.
I know which side I will be on….
Tom,
Regarding your comment on Feb. 17 about “man up …or…take it like a woman”. Being a woman, I found disfavor with that and have just one thing to say about it: If someone comes to my door to get my gun, I’ll show it to them, barrel first! I’ll give up my gun just as soon as those in government figure out a fool-proof way to get the guns of the criminals first. (Yea, like THAT’s gonna to happen!)
they are recommending a 5 to 10 year prison sentence under HR 45 for any non compliance
i think this is really dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As to this being part of the stimulus pkg, i believe the confusion lies with the “Holt Bill”, which is in the Plan, from what i understand. it deals with some govt oversight of the internet i think. but it is being confused with another “Blair” Holt Bill concerning some shooting somewhere and is cited to justify HR 45.
not to be picky, but we have the right to BEAR arms, not to bare them. i only say this because this is exactly the kind of thing the righteous liberals use to point at us ignorant backwards yokels who want to cling to our guns and sneer. but spelling aside i understand and admire your heart.
i pray that i will never need to use a gun to defend me and mine, but if so, then so be it. good luck to all of you. we’re going to need it.
**edited**
Susan:
Meant nothing personal. If I would have said take it like a man, some would have taken offense to it. You are missing the point of the right to bear arms. It is not to protect you from criminals. It is there to protect you from the government. The protection from criminals is just a perk. If you are willing to give them up, then you are willing to live as a slave not a free person.
El Diablo:
The left has left 100’s of millions dead. They did that by disarming their populace.
Che was against tyranny? You have got to be kidding. Marxism is tyranny, it is tyranny but a government and not a person.
Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine were not leftist. They were more libertarians, not a leftist (as is defined today as a communist/socialist/Marxist).
Hey guys,
Could one of you give me the link to where you blogged about the Patriot Act when it was being passed? I was wondering how concerned you were about President Bush taking away your 3rd ammendment rights…?
Last time I checked, Just Wondering, soldiers were not being quartered in private homes.
But, even if there were, and the Patriot Act allowed it, that part about prescribed by law would cover it.
Now, I have looked around the Internet to look at this situation, and, quite frankly, there are a few hysterical people making wide leaps of judgment regarding the 3rd. So, I’m interested to hear where you are going with this.
I for 1 am terrified of this bill– My husband is a Viet Nam Vet who fought FOR this country. We’ll be joining the NRA and buying guns to stock pile if need be. It’s time the congress stops circumventing the Constitution of this country and ABIDE by it!
Hi,
“Some Supreme Court justices have invoked the Third Amendment when seeking to establish a base for the right to privacy. For example, the Opinion of the Court by Justice William O. Douglas in Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 484 (1965) cites the amendment as implying a belief that an individual’s home should be free from agents of the state.” And I guess we can throw the 4th Amendment in there as well, while we are at it.
Now, I don’t believe that the Supreme Court justices are “Hysterical People” but who knows your interpretation there?
Here’s my point: I understand the concern to protect constitutional rights. If only we would value each of them and each other equally. Our country was founded on the basis of belief that “all men are created equal.” We felt the need to form our own nation because of this deep rooted belief. Yet, somehow, we are so concerned with solely that which affects us that we forget we may be infringing on the rights of so many others.
Are they really serious about this? I am on my fourth tour overseas to Iraq/Afghanistan and am also a cop back home. If you ask me,i tell you this. Quit jackin with the the people who are legal and admire guns and all that. Make stiffer crimes and longer sentences for the people who commit the crimes with them, break into houses to steal guns to support thier Meth habits. in my line of work, the criminals have the illegal, stolen guns. Not your average citizen. So what do these jokers want to do…penalize the average citizen who wants to protect thier home, family and property against the criminal S.O.B. who already has a stolen gun and is breaking into thier house in the middle of the night, just so he can get his next bump of meth and will stop at nothing to get it. Way to go to who ever wrote that bill! So what the hell am i doing over here for? Sorry…just venting…this stuff pissesme off everytime a Dem gets into office, they throw a new gun bill in. Makes me sick.
To David Cannon who sez…”calm down”…even if this bill does not make it to the full house for a vote, and they know it won’t pass…what is preventing Mr Rush from introducing this bill as a ‘rider’ to another bill that has nothing to do with gun control, but has a mommentum that would make everyone who votes against look bad? How many times has Congress pulled this stunt to pass laws that cannot stand on its own merit and has to be ‘backdoored’ to make it ‘law’?
Mr Rush should be removed from office for treason to the Constitution and the United States of America. As a ‘former’ Black Panther, and their history of gang violence and criminal intent and overthrow of the Government… is just a sheep in wolve’s clothing, and is in a position to do it from ‘within’…our enemies have learned well how to defeat us. The ‘War against the People’ needs to stop. Prosecute the Banksters, Brokesters,Traitors to the Constitution. Get rid of the ‘circular logic’ of attorney speak and politician gerrymandering.
Replace the ‘non-violent, victimless’ detainee in prison and replace them with Politicians and the Corporate ‘elite’.
Speaking of ‘Gun Control’ (since we are on the topic) Why is it that criminals that have been convicted of crimes with Guns, get out in 5-7 years (unless of course you are a serial killer like Charlie Manson), yet you can spend 20 years to life for smoking a joint?…can anyone answer that?
I am a handgun expert and the Japanese company Nambu did make an 8mm pistol during WWII. Lousy gunm jammed a lot. As for this legislation, I am far more worried that it demands that a law abiding citizen be subject to search without warrant and or probable cause. That’s your home people, not just your person. STAND UP against this bill.
Paul, the problem is not laws. There are plenty of them. They do not enforce them, so there is a need to make more. Governments create problems to create a “need” for more laws. Each law is a test to see how the populace reacts.
Remember a bully always starts out with words, then a shove and finally you go hungry at lunch. This is a shovel to see if there is a response.
Also the 2nd Amendment is not about protecting you from criminals, that is a perk. It is the reset switch on the Constitution (Stole that from Jim Quinn). In other words to protect the people from the government.
Almost forgot, thank you for your service Paul.
Dearest Tom:
Thanks for your reply. You have made some accurate statements. There are indeed millions dead from ostensible left-wing governments (e.g., USSR, et.al.). But your understanding of Cuba is mistaken and the result of right-wing propaganda.
You have merely regurgitated right-wing propaganda vis-a-vis Che specifically. I suggest you read his own words and those of his companeros to balance out the right-wing lies told about him.
Did you know that he was the July 26th Movement’s doctor and that he would insist on treating Batista’s injured men before their own? Fidel was amazed by Che’s compassion even for the enemy. Did you know that not one time did the J26M abuse or torture a prisoner even after the Revolution (even after Playa Giron); can the US say the same of itself? Lol. Cuba held trials after the revolution and did execute people convicted of war crimes but the US has done and still does the very same thing.
I suggest you think for yourself and read other accounts– not just right-wing propaganda.
As for Jefferson and Paine– they were indeed leftists. They both believed in progressive taxation and a social safety net, and they were both (probably) Atheists or at least non-christian Deists (the hallmark of rational leftists; god is for atavistic conservatives usually, not forward looking progressives/radicals). They were not Marxists for sure– because anti-capitalism wasn’t around yet- because capitalism itself was just starting! lol.
But make no mistake– both men were in favor of mollifying the affects of capitalism from its beginning, and restricting the state’s ability to usurp individual liberty (the RIGHT is more often in favor of state intervention in people’s lives– read your history books Tom; the REAL left is anti-statist by definition. SEE: Anarchism) and thus both men were leftists in their time and milieu. And they were both very pro-gun. Just like Che, Chavez, et.al.; and just like me and all my left-wing homies.
My point still obtains. Lock & load…
I’ve called you here as freeborn Englishmen, loyal to our king. While he reigned over us, we lived in peace. But since Prince John has seized the rengency, Guy of Gisbourne and the rest of his traitors have murdered and pillaged. You’ve all suffered from their cruelty – the ear loppings, the beatings, the blindings with hot irons, the burning of our farms and homes, the mistreatment of our women. It’s time to put an end to this! Now this forest is wide. it can shelter a band of good determined men – good swordsmen, good archers, good fighters, Men if your willing to fight I want you! Are you with me?……
Then Kneel and swear this oath.
That you, the freemen of this forest, swear to dispoil the rich only to give to the poor, to shelter the old and the helpless, to protect all women rich or poor, Norman or Saxon. Swear to fight for a free England. To protect her loyally until the return of our King and sovereign Richard the Lion Heart, and swear to fight to the death against our oppressors!
– Errol Flynn – (The Adventures of Robin Hood 1938)
We should all be concerned. With a solid democratic house of representative and a few idiot republican senators this could pass and would surely be signed by our leader. I am reminded of the end of a phrase concerning when they can have my weapon…”When they pry it from my cold, dead hands”.
I dont have a clue how old any of you are but i young and all i hear when my parents were growing up if they dint agree with something by god they did something about what has happend to that passion they changed alot then so why cant we stop a bill they
If we don’t stand togeather, we shall surely hang separately. Great words spoken by true patriots.
Law abiding citizens aren’t to be feared, until you push them over the edge.
Who’s killing who? Gangs, thugs criminals.drug dealers.
So why aren’t the politicians going after them? Because by passing insane, stupid, common sense? laws, you make the law abiding citizen a criminal immediately with the stoke of a pen.
Which is mightier, the pen or the sword.I guess it depends on whos handling what.
Just some thoughts!
El Diablo:
I would think that if Jefferson was for social safety nets and other forms of welfare he would not of wrote this.
“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
Notice the words specifically enumerated. I think that means, there are no exceptions. He also did not think that it was a blank slate that progressives think it is.
“Our peculiar security is in possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction”
I do not pretend to guess others relationship with Jesus, but he did hold Christianity in high reguards.
“The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart”
Jefferson distrusted government but knew there had to be a limited form of it. He was not an anarchist.
Che fought for communist and/or marxist. He was a commie plain and simple. Someone who could fight for that is not one to stand for liberty.
There was socialism before Jefferson’s time. Read up on the pilgrims. They tried it and almost die because of it. They sung a different toon after the first winter.
Almost forgot, if Cuba is misunderstood and a paradise. Why are the people of Florida not riding inter tube rafts to get there. The only people I see risking their lives for freedom is the Cuban people that try to boat here on anything that can float.
You can try to justify your left wing ideals and think they are what founded this country. But they are not.
With apology to El Diablo-
I edited your post and inadvertently hit delete rather than approve.
El Diablo
-redacted-
Thomas (Paine in the [edited]!)
Lol. Tom you’ve again made some good points but have made some errors as well.
I think I need to clarify my arguments a bit first. You are correct to say that Jefferson was more Libertarian than modern Liberal in some aspects. I agree. However, in the dialectic of the times he was on the left of the left/right divide and this is made manifest by his:
1. Anti-monarchical stance (the conservatives were pro-monarchy). We need look no further than his part in an illegal, violent, and righteous revolution against the King of England.
2. Anti-Clerical stance (again the Church was very powerful and part & parcel of the conservative wing of political life). To wit: “The day will come when the mystical generation [birth] of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva [birth] in the brain of Jupiter.” and *“Twenty times, in the course of my late reading, have I been on the point of breaking out,
[T]hatthis would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it! ”But in this exclamation, I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in public company—I mean hell.”and “The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves”.
So, you see, Jefferson was contemptuous of religion and was at least a non-Christian deist. And he was anti-clerical in the extreme. This is a left-wing ideal. Even today the real (radical) Left is anti-Church, yes? The right is Pro-god/Pro-Church? Ok. We’ll get to ’separation of Church and State’ soon enough; he was even more left-wing in that category.
3. Anti-Statist sentiments. See, I know you guys on the right like to pretend you hate the government but it is historically conservatives and right-wingers who want to maintain the stranglehold of the State in whatever form (e.g., the Divine-Right-of-Kings Monarchy favored by Burke [vis-à-vis the French Revolution at any rate] or Hobbes; the Plutocracy/Oligarchy of John Jay “The people who own the country ought to govern it”; or the modern Right who wants a powerful state to tell us all who we can marry [prop 8], [edited] [sodomy laws], where we can travel [Cuba/Helms-Burton], what we can say in public [obscenity laws]; what drugs we can put into our own bodies [over a million non-violent drug offenders put in prison in the 80's under "freedom-loving" Reagan/Bush]; anti-union/union busting laws like Taft-Hartley; et.al.)
But Jefferson’s anti-statist philosophy is very left-wing. The Right loves the State -they merely want it to stay out of their financial dealings; thus the extreme Right is Fascism. The real/extreme left is anti-Statist thus its extreme is Anarchism [see: Chomsky, Bakunin, Kroptopkin, et.al.].
Even Marxism was designed to place BOTH the civil society and the economy in the workers’/citizens’ hands [a real democracy in theory]. You and I agree that many times (every-time except Cuba; lol) the Left betrayed their principles and created a totalitarian State instead of a genuine worker’s society. But that is why real leftists are Anarchists and not Marxists anymore (only using Marx for economic analysis). Anyway, Jefferson was anti-government as you pointed out– but that puts him on the Left in an accurate rendering of the left/right divide; not the mythology of the Right’s all-of-a-sudden anti-Statism.
Only the Libertarian right can claim that (and that is a SMALL part of the Right). In his day Jefferson argued against the conservatives most of the time– he was branded a radical and what in modern terms would be a leftist (but he was no socialist, you’re correct– however, he did believe in public education at the very least and this is to this day a very left-wing ideal [modern Republicans hate the DOE].
4. Jefferson was anti-corporate; and was in favor of a rural/agrarian America. Conservatives and right-wingers are very pro-corporate both then and now. In fact, the nexus of the corporation and the State are the sine qua non of Fascism, the apotheosis of the Right’s Fantasy.
Jefferson said in 1816, “I hope we shall…crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country”. See?
5. Jefferson was the spokesman for separation of Church and State. He is famous as author of the the phrase itself! His praxis was clear, as Governor he wrote the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1786) and this doc was the paradigm for tolerance for non-believers and all religions including non-Christians [you may also want to look into the Treaty of Tripoli for his tolerance of Muslims and rejection of the US as a "Christian nation"]. He further wrote in 1787, “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world…” He wrote in 1802, “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour (sic) to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg”. This separation of C & S is the Left’s bailiwick as you well know. The Right then and now is still conservatively and atavistically in favor of the govt. being imbued with the stink of the church.
6. Jefferson was in favor of Public Education. To wit: in 1810 he wrote as a part of his treatise on public funding for education, “I have indeed two great measures at heart, without which no republic can maintain itself in strength: 1. That of general education, to enable every man to judge for himself what will secure or endanger his freedom. 2. To divide every county into hundreds, of such size that all the children of each will be within reach of a central school in it.”
If that aint a Lefty, what is? Lol.
Next, Thomas Paine laid out a very detailed praxis for a modern welfare state in Right’s of Man Part II (start around page 600 if you like). He was a radical anti-Statist, anti-cleric, and was the kind of fella who felt man had every right to challenge the authority of the State, the Church and the rich. He was no socialist, but he was a left-leaning radical for sure. In his day he was condemned as an anarchist (and Atheist)!
Specifically, he called for a public education (a radical leftist ideal to be sure) and “provisions” for “poor families” funded with taxes dollars (he even suggested a bit of ‘welfare’ to each child upon birth as a “start in life” [see: Rights of Man Part II].
He also was in favor of the eradication of the “Poor Laws” which locked people up for debt. All of these were leftist (even in the dialectic of his day) and anti-conservative ideals. Some even today!
NEXT:
I think you are confusing “utopian socialism” and actual political “Marxism”. Utopian socialism or communism was indeed practiced centuries before Adam Smith ever wrote Wealth of Nations. Lol. You are right. But I was thinking of a more dialectical Marxism as a ‘response’ to the inequalities and “contradictions” of Capitalism [Marx]. So I think we are arguing Apples and Oranges there.
Cuba has issues– don’t we all. But I really encourage you to read their own accounts of the Revolution (and why they had it). Castro’s, History Will Absolve Me, is a good starting point. He wrote it from jail after the failed attack on the Moncada Barracks. He quotes Lincoln, Jefferson, and Paine from memory. Castro was a huge fan of our own Revolution in 1776. Try reading something other than right-wing propaganda and see if you learn something.
The Cuban people who stay are very proud of their Revolution and kill & die to defend it. They volunteer for army service (it is not mandatory in ‘foreign campaigns’) and went to Angola, Namibia, Zaire, to fight the racist, murderous Apartheid regime in the name of “internationalism”. An all-volunteer force to defend the principles of their own Revolution is not really the symptom of oppression. That is a proud and free people by any definition.
Think of our own boys and girls overseas defending America as an all-volunteer force. If the US was no good, and none of us loved it– would we fight for it overseas? But many of us have and do– and Cubans do the same. Voluntarily… Cubans love their Revolution, and we should love it too; it is one of the greatest stories of the 20th century. Look at the the pre-Revolutionary statistics on poverty, illiteracy, political murder and tyranny and look at it after. Look at it objectively, and you’ll see the Castro regime educated the population (from 5% literacy to 95%); reduced rents (even turned most renters into owners), gave the poor back their land (that was stolen through imperialism and graft), free-heath care and university education (increased Cuban life span by several decades to 77 years [the US is 78] and have over 75,000 doctors in Cuba); and gave the people their country back [no more are they the proxy of Yankee imperialism!]
I think I have a more robust understanding and a bit more erudition on these subjects Tom, so I can support my conceits better than you and your Right-Wing homies. But, I admit the Right is correct on some things (like GUNS!) and I am hoping we can work together on at least those issues.
Lock & load!
*Edited by admin for context and accuracy.
From H.R. 45: Here Comes Gun Control, 2009/02/22 at 4:05 AM
2009/02/22 Approve | Unapprove | Spam |
they will pass this bill or others similar to it and you will all obey or be imprisoned (tis particular bill offers a 5- 10 year sentence for any infraction). no doubt this site is monitored by homeland security and ever one of you has been traced to their home address and are listed for advance arrest and internment in a FEMA relocation center (american concentration camps) in the civil upheaveal that is to come upon this land soon.
in Ca. they gave a man 25 years to life for stealing a slice of pizza, another the same for a bicycle theft (under the three strikes law that they passed in Ca. that everyone thought was for violent offenders, but found out it was for anyone and any offence)……OH thats not cruel or unusual punishment!
I’ve been edited! Lol; and seemingly justifiably. Sorry for the lack of context. My over-all point still seems to obtain though, yes?
L & L
Revisionism and misinterpretation from start to nearly amen.
2. Anti-Clerical stance (again the Church was very powerful and part & parcel of the conservative wing of political life).… “The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves”.
The “anti-Clerical stance” was not Jefferson’s alone but of most of the Founders. An antipathy and opposition to Catholicism in particular and not general Christianity. Jefferson and the other Founders knew how the clerisy had corrupted earlier experiments in Republicanism and were responsible, in part, for other religious wars. Catholics became accepted later on after they adapted to American Republicanism.
Keeping that in mind, the context of your Jefferson quotes change.
“The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves”… “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world…”
As for Jefferson being a “non-Christian deist”; you are going to have to produce irrefutable proof that Jefferson was lying or take him at his word.
“I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
“Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage. We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.”
“The precepts of philosophy and of the Hebrew code, laid hold of actions only. (Jesus) pushed his scrutinizes into the heart of man, erected His tribunal in the regions of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountain head.”
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis; a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
I also neglected to point out that the quote I edited for context was attributed to John Adams and not Jefferson.
So since Jefferson was not alone in his anti-Church stance then I am wrong that he held that stance? I am afraid this is a bit of a non-sequitur.
He was a Deist. This is almost universally accepted as true. So were Washington and Franklin. I’ll work up some more proof in the next 48 hours.
However, you made a broader indictment of my work by claiming it is “[r]evisionism and misinterpretation from start to nearly amen”.
But you only address one of my six points vis-a-vis Jefferson, none of them concerning Paine, and are again silent on Cuba. How can you indict me “from start to amen” and not provide any rejoinder at all to 95% of my points?
I appreciate your vigilance with the correction and augmentation of my quote. I conceded the point. However, my position was based upon many quotes and thus your correction wasn’t nearly as damaging as you seem to suspect. You’ll have to address them all if you want to refute me in toto.
How about a point by point dialectic? I think I can handle it. Lol.
Lastly, many [specifically the last one] of your own Jefferson quotes only prove he was a Deist not a Christian; however some of them do cast a bit of a pall over my position; in general you’ve made some blows but my argument is still the stronger man. Further, I suggest you read the “Virginia Statue on Religious Freedom” which had the force of law and not mere rhetoric. And also the Treaty of Tripoli wherein it expressly states that the US is NOT a Christian nation. Again with the force of LAW.
I eagerly await your response. Donde esta Tom?
1st Lt El Diablo
Gun control is what you get when you elect a communist president. And don’t start bawling that he’s not a communist, you’ll simply prove you haven’t read up on his history. Obama is not simply a communist, he’s a communist of the Stalinist variety.
The democrat/communist party USA has complete control of our lives since the useful idiots, programmed by the media to vote communist, voted for this Marxist revolution of fear.
Hey El Diablo, stop telling bald faced lies about our founding fathers. Jefferson and Franklin were certainly NOT deists. You really need to READ their writings instead of garbage taught in our disgusting “Universities”.
The United States was founded on Christian values and has been considered a Christian Nation until atheists started re-writing history.
The very notion that you or anyone else would spread such outright lies is disgusting to me.
you are all enemies of the state and will be arrested…….
As an aside, during WWII some Japanese officers carried 8mm Nambu pistols. That’s the only 8mm I’ve heard of…and it’s a cinch none of the gang-bangers are carrying a collectible like that.
Once the well has been poisoned…
Doc:
If it took them this long to notice my posting I feel sorry form them. They know me and mine and they are free to come get us anytime.
El Diablo:
I actually have a job. Like I said at the end of my last post. I do not question other religious beliefs. I never argued whether Jefferson was a Christian. I only posted his words in support(lack of a better word) of Christianity. You can not let it be. So you dragged George Washington into it. Then I thought to myself, I wonder why. Then I remembered that El Diablo translated means the devil. I see where this is coming from.
Then there is this Cuban thing where you claim that they are free people. What are of free do you not understand. They are held prisoner in their own country. They can not just come here when they want. That is not freedom. So you lie to yourself when you say they are free.
I thought to myself, there is no arguing with someone that will lie to themselves. But then I remembered that one of the rules for radicals was to tear down the foundation of country before you can rebuild it. I will bet you are found of Mr Alinsky’s work. Then I thought to myself, Saul he was a persecutor of Christians.
Also I will never read anything the puts a commie in a good light. Ever since I was a infant I have disliked the left (I was born in 1970 and I can remember them on TV with their free love and their long hair protesting). I will tell you here and now. I swear on my life that I will fight them anyway and anywhere I can, until I die.
It all falls back to the old saying!
“When Guns or OUTLAWED, only OUTLAWS will have guns!” As someone mention earlier, we have the right to keep and bear arms, Not only to protect our homes and family, but to protect us from the government. I have no problem having a back ground check at the time of purchase, I do have a problem when the government comes knocking on my door. Most crimes are done with stolen guns. Those criminals are getting guns by breaking in homes when no one is home to protect the home invasion, therefore finding a gun that is not locked up in a HEAVY Gun safe will prevent them from getting it and putting it on the street. Yes, guns need to be out of the reach of children and we can put gun locks on our pistols that are not in a safe. Problem. If I’m sleeping and I hear someone breaking into my house, I don’t want to take the time to unlock my gun lock or my safe to have access to my Pistol or rifle to shoot the SOB who is invading my home! Gun Control is described as hitting the target. In my opinion, the target coming through the window or locked door of my home is called SELF DEFENSE. If they want anything I have in my home, then they need to do what I did. Get a job and buy it!
For those of you who think legislation like this is ‘common sense’ please insert “freedom of Speech’ for every occurence of therequirement for sanity check, children in home under 18, etc – than apply the word “license’, ‘tax’, ‘photo ID’ to secure your right to speak.
Then go to the section that explains that this Act ONLY applies to you and me but NOT Government (State, Local, Federal) employees or agents.
Where oh where is our ACLU?
Regards,
Who is John Gault?
John Galt. oops
Liberals turned in their brains years ago for a politcal carear of stupididy
Not really taking sides here… I find the entire founding fathers debate pretty intriguing. I’m not sure why it is raging in these comments, but I’m enjoying it.
Anyway -
Careful how you describe freedom, Tom.
“Then there is this Cuban thing where you claim that they are free people. What are of free do you not understand. They are held prisoner in their own country. They can not just come here when they want. That is not freedom. So you lie to yourself when you say they are free.”
See if your government will let you go to Cuba and get back to us on that point.
Anyway, I’m a lefty if that is what you want to call me. I believe that greed is so overwhelming in our country and so deeply embedded in our society and nature that government has to offer welfare on some levels. I believe in keeping taxes where they are or even increasing them to avoid the immorality of saddling future generations with debt that they didn’t incur. Yeah, I’m definitely a left leaner.
Guns aren’t a left or a right issue though. There are people on both sides of the aisle that want to take them away from us. Stop blaming an ideology or a philosophy and start blaming your personal representative for not upholding the constitution or not doing enough to protect it. And most importantly, get passed this gross habit of taking one side or the other, look passed the R or D next to a name, and start voting for and against your representatives based on the issues that matter the most to you.
God bless us and our firearms. Now then, I’m off to clean my PTR 91.
This has gone far enough!!!!! What is it going to take before all you sheep finally REALIZE YOUR LIFE IS A FARCE YOUR GOVERNMENT IS STRIPPING YOU OF ALL OF YOUR FREEDOMS IN THE NAME OF HOMELAND SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!! And yes you allowed it to happen. This GUN CONTROL ACT isn’t an act it’s a tracking system to monitor were the guns are so they know were to go first. Anyone who lays down there right to defend them self or there family willing in trust of the government deserves to be cast out into exile for YOU ARE WEAK AND WILL BREED FURTHER WEAKNESS. Pay attention soon it will be the real id act and then they will say these micro chips are ok it’s easier than cash!!!!!! First they pose a boogie man to the population to produce cohesion. Next they strip you of your rights. So let me ask you this If I am required by law to register my weapon at the time of purchase as the law in my state WAS then they already know I have a gun why do I have to let them track me? And what happens if I don’t abide by these rules they strip me of my privelage and throw me in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who will get off there [edited] and stand up to this garbage?When is enough enough????? OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE TRUTH WE ARE NOT FREE AND IT IS GETTING EVEN WORSE!!!!!!!!!! OUR FORE FATHERS WERE PATRIOTS ANYONE NOW TO STAND UP AND SHOUT BACK IS CONSIDERED A TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DO WE DEAL WITH THIS. ONE DAY THEY ARE JUST GOING TO COME AND GET ALL OF THEM AND THEN WHAT. THEY SAY THEY DONT WANT CRIMINALS TO HAVE FULL AUTOS BUT THEY HAVE THEM ANY WAY!!!!!!!! Its just to keep the playing field stacked on there side. LIVE FREE OR DIE Remember your roots and how we got here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!!!!! UNITE
WHAT WOULD THE WORLD DO IF ALL THE SMART ONES JUST STOPPED CARING????????????????????????
jh,
Many Americans go to Cuba. Jack Nicholson and Steven Spielberg first come to mind as well as so-called Americans like Benjamin Medea (lived there for at least 4 years), Cindy Sheehan, Danny Glover, Harry Belafonte; etc.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html
jh,
Your link supports Tom’s statement not yours.
The entire CPI covers restrictions, limitations and warnings to U.S citizens traveling to Cuba.
Those restrictions and warnings are in your best interests and for your protection for obvious reasons.
A BILL
To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.
(a) Short Title- This Act may be cited as `Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009′.
(b) Table of Contents- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:
Sec. 1. Short title; table of contents.
Sec. 2. Findings and purposes.
Sec. 3. Definitions.
TITLE I–LICENSING
Sec. 101. Licensing requirement.
Sec. 102. Application requirements.
Sec. 103. Issuance of license.
Sec. 104. Renewal of license.
Sec. 105. Revocation of license.
TITLE II–RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER
Sec. 201. Sale or transfer requirements for qualifying firearms.
Sec. 202. Firearm records.
TITLE III–ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS
Sec. 301. Universal background check requirement.
Sec. 302. Failure to maintain or permit inspection of records.
Sec. 303. Failure to report loss or theft of firearm.
Sec. 304. Failure to provide notice of change of address.
Sec. 305. Child access prevention.
TITLE IV–ENFORCEMENT
Sec. 401. Criminal penalties.
Sec. 402. Regulations.
Sec. 403. Inspections.
Sec. 404. Orders.
Sec. 405. Injunctive enforcement.
TITLE V–FIREARM INJURY INFORMATION AND RESEARCH
Sec. 501. Duties of the Attorney General.
TITLE VI–EFFECT ON STATE LAW
Sec. 601. Effect on State law.
Sec. 602. Certification of State firearm licensing systems and State firearm record of sale systems.
TITLE VII–RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER LAW
Sec. 701. Subordination to Arms Export Control Act.
TITLE VIII–INAPPLICABILITY
Sec. 801. Inapplicability to governmental authorities.
TITLE IX–EFFECTIVE DATE
Sec. 901. Effective date of amendments.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSES.
(a) Findings- Congress finds that–
(1) the manufacture, distribution, and importation of firearms is inherently commercial in nature;
(2) firearms regularly move in interstate commerce;
(3) to the extent that firearms trafficking is intrastate in nature, it arises out of and is substantially connected with a commercial transaction, which, when viewed in the aggregate, substantially affects interstate commerce;
Does this go for cars too? The car meets all of the above… but they are governed by the state
(4) because the intrastate and interstate trafficking of firearms are so commingled, full regulation of interstate commerce requires the incidental regulation of intrastate commerce;
Cars
(5) gun violence in the United States is associated with the majority of homicides, over half the suicides, and two-thirds of non-fatal violent injuries; and
Not where citizens are allowed to protect themselves… Chacago… Rights are denied
(6) on the afternoon of May 10, 2007, Blair Holt, a junior at Julian High School in Chicago, was killed on a public bus riding home from school when he used his body to shield a girl who was in the line of fire after a young man boarded the bus and started shooting.
This is tragic!! Imagine if an armed citizen could have ended this before others died
(b) Sense of the Congress- It is the sense of the Congress that–
(1) firearms trafficking is prevalent and widespread in and among the States, and it is usually impossible to distinguish between intrastate trafficking and interstate trafficking; and
(2) it is in the national interest and within the role of the Federal Government to ensure that the regulation of firearms is uniform among the States,
Now, now, are we talking about a commerce issue? That can be accomplished by reporting sales by serial number only
that law enforcement can quickly and effectively trace firearms used in crime,
ok… what about hammers, knives, fists and that firearms owners know how to use and safely store their firearms. Really… the government dictating where I store my guns… what about where I park, keep my keys, store my silver ware, tools, etc…
(c) Purposes- The purposes of this Act and the amendments made by this Act are–
(1) to protect the public against the unreasonable risk of injury and death associated with the unrecorded sale or transfer of qualifying firearms to criminals and youth;
Sounds like a good idea… but this targets the wrong group of people… anyone , law abiding, that goes and gets licensed, is not the person this is looking to police… just the opposite… Sounds like the police, FBI, ATF need to work on reducing the illegal gun trade. The legal trade is doing just fine.
(2) to ensure that owners of qualifying firearms are knowledgeable in the safe use, handling, and storage of those firearms; a state issue, if an issue at all. I am for safety course for CCW but not for ownership.
Yeah, I know what it sounds like… submitting to this opens the door for policing this… I am not ready to forgo more rights
(3) to restrict the availability of qualifying firearms to criminals, youth, and other persons prohibited by Federal law from receiving firearms; and. This is being done… at least for legal purchases by the States.
(4) to facilitate the tracing of qualifying firearms used in crime by Federal and State law enforcement agencies.
So they can come and get them? MOLON LABE!!!… I know and understand the reasoning… I just can’t get past taking my rights to get it done.
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
(a) In General- In this Act:
(1) FIREARM; LICENSED DEALER; LICENSED MANUFACTURER; STATE- The terms `firearm’, `licensed dealer’, `licensed manufacturer’, and `State’ have the meanings given those terms in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code.
(2) QUALIFYING FIREARM- The term `qualifying firearm’ has the meaning given the term in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (b) of this section.
(b) Amendment to Title 18, United States Code- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(36) The term `qualifying firearm’–
`(A) means–
`(i) any handgun; or
`(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and
`(B) does not include any antique.’.
TITLE I–LICENSING
SEC. 101. LICENSING REQUIREMENT.
Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-
`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license—
I call Bull$#!t… Who determines what a qualified firearm is. There are no determinations in the 2nd amendment!!
Hand guns and assult rifels are first… then shotguns, then long guns, then my daisy… again, MOLON LABE
`(A) under title I of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under that title; or
`(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under State law.
`(2) APPLICABLE DATE- In this subsection, the term `applicable date’ means–
`(A) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person before the date of the enactment of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 2 years after such date of enactment; and
`(B) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person on or after the date of the enactment of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 1 year after such date of enactment.’.
SEC. 102. APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.
(a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include–
(1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;
(2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;
(3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;
(4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;
(5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;
(6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;
(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding–
(A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;
(B) the safe handling of firearms;
(C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;
(D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and
(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;
(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;
(9) the date on which the application was submitted; and
(10) the signature of the applicant.
(b) Regulations Governing Submission- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications to the Attorney General under this section, which regulations shall–
(1) provide for submission of the application through a licensed dealer or an office or agency of the Federal Government designated by the Attorney General;
(2) require the applicant to provide a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(2) of title 18, United States Code) of the applicant, containing a photograph of the applicant, to the licensed dealer or to the office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable, at the time of submission of the application to that dealer, office, or agency; and
(3) require that a completed application be forwarded to the Attorney General not later than 48 hours after the application is submitted to the licensed dealer or office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable.
(c) Fees-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee in an amount determined in accordance with paragraph (2).
(2) FEE AMOUNT- The amount of the fee collected under this subsection shall be not less than the amount determined by the Attorney General to be necessary to ensure that the total amount of all fees collected under this subsection during a fiscal year is sufficient to cover the costs of carrying out this title during that fiscal year, except that such amount shall not exceed $25.
All this from CITIZENS that are law abiding. Haven’t done anything wrong.
SEC. 103. ISSUANCE OF LICENSE.
(a) In General- The Attorney General shall issue a firearm license to an applicant who has submitted an application that meets the requirements of section 102 of this Act, if the Attorney General ascertains that the individual is not prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.
(b) Effect of Issuance to Prohibited Person- A firearm license issued under this section shall be null and void if issued to a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.
(c) Form of License- A firearm license issued under this section shall be in the form of a tamper-resistant card, and shall include–
(1) the photograph of the licensed individual submitted with the application;
(2) the address of the licensed individual;
(3) the date of birth of the licensed individual;
(4) a license number, unique to each licensed individual;
(5) the expiration date of the license, which shall be the date that is 5 years after the initial anniversary of the date of birth of the licensed individual following the date on which the license is issued (or in the case of a license renewal, following the date on which the license is renewed under section 104);
(6) the signature of the licensed individual provided on the application, or a facsimile of the application; and
(7) centered at the top of the license, capitalized, and in boldface type, the following:
`FIREARM LICENSE–NOT VALID FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE’.
Now what do you think he reasoning behind this is?? They are making sure this is an ownership license… not a National Carry Permit, It seems to meet all the requirements for most states who do not deny individual rights… oh, they do not want to impose abusive Federal Power on the States…
SEC. 104. RENEWAL OF LICENSE.
(a) Application for Renewal-
(1) IN GENERAL- In order to renew a firearm license issued under this title, not later than 30 days before the expiration date of the license, the licensed individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under paragraph (3)), in a form approved by the Attorney General, an application for renewal of the license.
(2) CONTENTS- An application submitted under paragraph (1) shall include–
(A) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;
(B) current proof of identity of the licensed individual; and
(C) the address of the licensed individual.
(3) REGULATIONS GOVERNING SUBMISSION- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications under this subsection.
(b) Issuance of Renewed License- Upon approval of an application submitted under subsection (a) of this section, the Attorney General shall issue a renewed license, which shall meet the requirements of section 103(c), except that the license shall include the current photograph and address of the licensed individual, as provided in the application submitted under this section, and the expiration date of the renewed license, as provided in section 103(c)(5).
SEC. 105. REVOCATION OF LICENSE.
(a) In General- If an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title subsequently becomes a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm–
(1) the license is revoked; and
(2) the individual shall promptly return the license to the Attorney General.
(b) Administrative Action- Upon receipt by the Attorney General of notice that an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title has become a person described in subsection (a), the Attorney General shall ensure that the individual promptly returns the license to the Attorney General.
TITLE II–RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER
SEC. 201. SALE OR TRANSFER REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFYING FIREARMS.
Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 101 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(bb) Unauthorized Sale or Transfer of a Qualifying Firearm- It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a qualifying firearm to, or for, any person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, or to receive a qualifying firearm from a person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, unless, at the time and place of the transfer or receipt–
`(1) the transferee presents to a licensed dealer a valid firearm license issued to the transferee–
`(A) under title I of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009; or
`(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 established by the State in which the transfer or receipt occurs;
`(2) the licensed dealer contacts the Attorney General or the head of the State agency that administers the certified system described in paragraph (1)(B), as applicable, and receives notice that the transferee has been issued a firearm license described in paragraph (1) and that the license remains valid; and
`(3) the licensed dealer records on a document (which, in the case of a sale, shall be the sales receipt) a tracking authorization number provided by the Attorney General or the head of the State agency, as applicable, as evidence that the licensed dealer has verified the validity of the license.’.
SEC. 202. FIREARM RECORDS.
(a) Submission of Sale or Transfer Reports- Not later than 14 days after the date on which the transfer of qualifying firearm is processed by a licensed dealer under section 922(bb) of title 18, United States Code (as added by section 201 of this Act), the licensed dealer shall submit to the Attorney General (or, in the case of a licensed dealer located in a State that has a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of this Act, to the head of the State agency that administers that system) a report of that transfer, which shall include information relating to–
(1) the manufacturer of the firearm;
(2) the model name or number of the firearm;
(3) the serial number of the firearm;
(4) the date on which the firearm was received by the transferee;
(5) the number of a valid firearm license issued to the transferee under title I of this Act; and
(6) the name and address of the individual who transferred the firearm to the transferee.
(7) Blood type of owner
(8)Names of owners Children
(9) Names of acquaintances
(10) Pets Names
(b) Federal Record of Sale System- Not later than 9 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall establish and maintain a Federal record of sale system, which shall include the information included in each report submitted to the Attorney General under subsection (a).
(c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence.
TITLE III–ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS
I am including thoughts from our forefathers on this matter:
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin
“A strong body makes a strong mind. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.” Thomas Jefferson
“If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin.” Samuel Adams
“The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.” Thomas Jefferson
“Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.” Thomas Jefferson
Not a forefather:
“Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don’t.”
“Definition of GUN CONTROL: The belief that government with its great wisdom and moral superiority can be trusted with a monopoly of deadly force
“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more effective, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” Adolph Hitler 1935
“Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal.” Janet Reno
jh:
Tell you what, you pay for the trip and I’ll go. I have 4 weeks vacation and have no where to go. I would also like to take my kids. And if it is not too much of a hassle, I would like to rent a car and go where I want. Not just the places the Cuban government wants you to go.
I don’t want to know how to read or write, and demand my right to own a firearm…..to deny my right to keep and bear arms because I can’t read or write or pass a test is unconstitutional, to knowingly pass a law that is unconstitutional is treason and a violation of the oath that every elected official takes including every judge that would uphold such a law….
You can have my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands!
LIVE FREE OR DIE
I have a concealed carry in Michigan and when I saw the procedures for obtaining a License to buy, It’s seems awfully close to the procedures for obtaining a CCW. They’re just trying to make it as hard as possible to obtain one. And I’m quite sure that they’ll impose all kinds of fees too.
The biggest problem I see with this bill is who is going to enforce it, and who is going to tell the gang bangers and drug dealers to turn in their guns(which are probably stolen anyway) and ammo.
It’s a bad bill and I hope it never happens……………..
I really don’t know what all the uproar is about. This is not the world it was 50 years ago when I took a my 22 rifle to high school to give a demonstration speech on how to clean it, but in those day, we didn’t have half the problems we have to day.
Of coarse I lived in waht was considered a very low crime and safe city in Orange County California.
Today,I am sure there is more crime, both in that city and cities across America. I do believe we all have the right to have guns and that if they get outlawed, only the outlaws will have them, but to have to learn a little, and be registered to have it, can’t be all bad.
I plan to in the very near future to not only acquire a hand gun or two, but to take the classes, and also have a permit to carry concised weapon for security.
Why, because none of us knows what is coming down the chute, and I would like to think i have protection.
The downside however is this.
When talking to a life long friend, who carries a hand gun daily, as he is a LAPD officer, tells it this way.
If you shoot someone, even if you were him, (a LAPD officer) you would be in for a world of [edited], so to speak, and the only time to use a hand gun to shoot someone, would be to save your life or someone else, and it would have to be clear. very clear. and even then you may still have a big problem.
These permits are designed to protect those as in cases like VT. I really believe that if we all have guns we would all be safer, provided we all had the education to go with the resibility of carring that gun.
I’m clearly confused on travel to Cuba, fellas. The last I heard, obtaining a permit just to take a little vacation there was next to impossible unless you were a celebrity or you have some sort of legitimate business there.
You can’t fly there, and countries that will let you fly there have a system in place where you won’t get your passport stamped when traveling there if you’re a US citizen… You get in a bit of trouble if you come home from being overseas and you have a stamp from Cuba.
Clear this up for me?
The ACLU does not care about civil liberties, they are just liberals, period. An 8 mm handgun ain’t been made yet. And, there are so many laws on the books that would rid the streets of gangstas, gang-bangers, etc. that the liberals in government won’t allow to be enforced. Just like immigration laws. As to the need to defend from invasion, this time the invasion is coming from within. Put much, much presure on your representatives, state and federal. Call them, even if you’ve never called before, and get into the habit. The liberals are just getting started.
jh:
As I said, you pay for the trip and I’ll go. See I can rent a boat and sail towards Cuba. A Cuban can’t borrow an inter tube and paddle here.
DundeeRain:
It all boils down to whether you believe in what this country was founded on. If you do, then you understand the part that says, “the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. I do believe that a license infringes my right to own a firearm.
As for the crime thing. Things where handled a little different 50 years ago. If some pervert touched your daughter, you could pound the c**p out of him. So they criminals knew the limits.
But as I said the protecting yourself from criminals is just a perk of the Second Amendment. It is in there to protect you from an overreaching government. This Bill demonstrates, we have an overreaching government.
Kudos. I feel you hit the bullseye. The second Amendment was enacted for exactly the purpose to always allow the people to, as a last resort, retain their ability to overthrow a corrupt government. To keep the administrations in check, when nothing else will. The second amendment is there to protect us, the people. Why do you think the liberal politicians are so bent on getting rid of it. Because they will have the illusion of power if they do. What would happen if only criminals and govt officials had weapons? The “people” would be defenseless.
Some years ago my father told me that the American people have forgotten what it took for them to enjoy the freedoms that they have and that the day will come for them to have to pay that terrible price again,(tree of freedom?),Will man never learn? The quote that comes to my mind is,better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
Well, I guess the truth is now coming out. I just saw and heard Eric Holter our new dumocratic attorney general say that he believes the clinton assult weapons ban should be permanently involked. 8;45 pm fox Hannidy program. The reason being that the gun and drug problem in Mexico calls for us to sacrifice and prevent it from happening down there and obama had talked about this when he was campaigning. I remember once he said he believed in the 2nd amendment. I don’t remember he ever talked about gun CONTROL and confiscation and that is what this is all about. Are these idiots for real? Wake up law abiding gunowners, we have to stand up for our CONSTITUTIONAL rights!
we remain a free nation because of firearms and the people who had courage enough to pick them up and use them in the defense of our country.To me it’s very simple,anyone who proposes to strip us of our firearms has the taint of treason on them. To the liberal intellectual types,I say this….If you don’t have the courage to stand up..then sit down and shut up.
What is this about?
7. my blood type?
8. my childrens names?
9. my friends names?
10. my PETS names?
Is this the most abtrusive type of personnel information invasion I’ve ever seen or heard about. What will be next, how many times we make love to our wives, what kind of car we drive and how many? How many trees in our yards and the list goes on? [edited] dumocratic rep. rush from chicago, who wrote this thing, obviously never had a problem in the 60’s when he was a law abiding a black panther in chicago and was peace loving. I thought the panthers were confrontational and had violent tendencies. My how things have changed and damned conceited and arrogant. And we’re law abiding! Look where all these dumocrats are from, try Chicago!
Hey Mitch, We all have the right to speak our minds. However, it is important to know of which we speak. Nancy Pelosi is a Representative, not a senator. In fact she’s the Speaker of the House. Blair Holt is not a senator either. You have to be living to be a senator. Blair Holt is the name of a black kid in Chicago who died when he took a bullet for a young girl when a gunman boarded a city bus and opened fire. Dont get me wrong. I am not a fan of Speaker Pelosi, nor do I think HR 45 which carries Blair Holt’s name is anything but pure BS. Blair Holt, however, is a true hero. May he rest in peace. Way to go, Blair. PS: I am a suburban white guy who is praying that the CCW legislation that is currently pending in Illinois passes. Its long overdue.
prepare – a police state is coming, God help us all
Ramage, you hit the nail on the head. By the way, the 2nd amendment doesn’t give us the right to own a gun, it is to keep the government from infringing on our GOD GIVEN right to protect ourselves from outsiders and our own government if necessary. In NC we have to get a purchase permit from the county sherrif to buy a handgun. There is your “registration” right there. This bill will infringe on your rights and your state’s rights. Look back at history if you want to see what happens after a government disarms their people. My advice would be to arm yourselves now before it’s too late.
NEXT TIME STUPID AMERICANS WANT TO VOTE FOR THE NEXT PREZ MAKE SURE YOUKNOW WHERE HE STANDS !!!
ITS ALL YOUR FAUTS FOR VOTING FOT OBAMA !!HE IS SO WET BEHIND THE EARS
OBAMA IS THE ANTICRIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEAL WITH IT !!!!!!!
i have read some of the comments that some of the people have made about it only affecting convicting felons, and that they do not have the constitutional right to own a firearm… show me where in the constitution it says that, because as a matter of fact according to england our founding fathers would have been in todays terms felons, they have every right to protect themselves. not all convicted felons are violent, there are so many felony laws on the books, that if the system wanted to, everyone would be a felon, when we take away the right of some to make us feel safe then you yourself deserve neither. felony laws have gotten out of hand, and is another way for the system to abolish guns because if you make a law that prohibits someone from owning a firearm and then get them to violate that law then guess what no guns, so wake up and smell the stinch of death, for example in the state of Oklahoma if you at any point use the bathroom outside you then have to register as a sex-offender and from that point forward are a felon, another one for you, if you have sex with a virgin you are a felon, the list goes on and on and on, and yes people do get prosecuted under these laws, now i can understand that some people do not want murders, rapists, etc… to own firearms, but the real question is why if we are so threatened by them are we letting them out of prison. so we need to stop viotlating others rights and start uniting under the banner of freedom. so what if someone is a convicted felon and they have changed are you telling me that they no longer have the (CONSTITUTIONAL, AND GOD GIVEN) right to protect their families, this Bill is the begining of the end for all freedom because if you do not register then you are a criminal, how many of you remember biology class where you learned if you tossed a frog in boiling water he will jump out, but if you put him in warm water and turn it up a little at a time then he will boil to death that is all this bill is going to accomplish because if you are so ignorant as to think that it will stop there then look at history it never has and never will stop there. so again WAKE UP AND SEE THE RIVER OF FREEDOM DRYING UP, NOW IS THE TIME TO RELEASE THE DAMN SO THE RIVER OF FREEDOM MAY FLURISH.
I hope that this may cause seem to think, but if not then ok, just remember the tree of liberity must be purged from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyraints, which is its natural manure… knowledge is the true weapon but ignorance is the begining of folly.
I can see how this law can look harmeless in the beginning, but can turn into a loss of our constitutional right later on. If the idea is to keep the bad gusy from owning guns, Hello! what makes anyone think the bad guys are gonna follow the rules? I can see Joe gang banger telling his buddies “Oh, I can’t get a gun, because I can’t get it registered.”
I will say, though, that the educational part of it isn’t a bad idea; However, it shoudl be something that is recommended and encouraged, not forced. I beleive that part of the problem with people owning guns is lack of education. The other problem is lack or respect. You can’t change that with a law.
I understand they are also trying to pass a law that will require all ammuntion that is sold to be coded and registerd. May sound good to some, but does anyone really think that someone who is going to commit a crime with a gun will use ammunition they have registerd in their own name? Most likely they will use stolen ammuntion. I hate to be teh innocent guy who gets arrested because my stolen ammo was found in some dead guys body.
Just who are these laws supposed to protect anyway?
Read section 801 of HR 45.
Most alarming it states
Inapplicability to government
authorities including any
dept or agency of the US,
of a state, or political
subdivision of a state or to
any agency official Conduct
of any officer or employee
of such a dept or agency
I don’t own a gun, never have and hope that I never have a reason to WANT to. I know lots of people who do however, for hunting purposes and collection purposes. I believe it is everyone’s right to own if they so choose. My personal feeling is that these legislators are not trying to ‘pull one over’ on anyone. Isn’t it possible that they are really, honestly trying to make it harder for not-so-law-abiding-citizens to obtain guns? Perhaps they are naive in thinking this will deter potential criminals, but where else do you start? Guns should be registered, as cars should; classes/informational trainging should be mandatory, as with driving…it just makes sense. And no, smart criminals would not necessarily use their own registered amo or guns, but there are a lot of dumb criminals that do, and probably crimes that are committed without premeditation and get caught this very way. So….who’s right? I don’t know!
Everyone has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happeness. However, these rights have to be protected because there are always those that will attempt to deny you these rights by persuation,and or force.
In the case of persuation, you can fight that mentally. However, the use of force is a whole other ballgame. If the perpetuator happens to be physically more powerful than you and can best you in a hand-to-hand fight, this does not negate your rights. However, it may make it impossible to maintain them unless there is a way to even the odds. There is a way and it is called “armed defense”. Now, if you are denied the means to maintain your rights, then the denier is guilty of a basic civil rights violation. That person or persons should be prosecuted under the same law that addresses any other civial rights violation. Since no one is above the law, then this means that any lawmaker that even advocates the denial or restriction of a person,the ability to properly arm themselves, should be recalled and prosecuted under the above stated laws.
HKB:
You are right. They are not trying to pull one on us. They are doing it right in front of us. What other reason would they have for wanting to take the guns from law abiding citizens? There are already laws, a lot of laws they do not enforce. Ask yourself why do they not enforce them. Think deeply about it with an open mind. I have kids and I fear for what they will be left with. They will not be free and I know it. All because fear rules all of us. Fear is a cancer that grows and eventually kills a person. I am to the point where I find it hard to think of what I am going to say when I get old and my grand children ask me what it is like to be free.
Just a heads up for those from Ohio. I hear there is a Tea Party planned for this Friday in Columbus.
Here is the problem with many of our gutless and clueless legislators–they think the America that gave us our gun rights 200 plus years ago is a different America than today’s America. They believe times have changed for the better and that our country and its people are under no threat of being abused by its government. This is presumptuous and arrogant. The very fact that liberal politicians are trying to take away our constitutional rights aught to be proof enough that the government is still a viable threat to its people.
All that these liberal politicians can think about is the awful crimes being committed by people with guns. Their stomachs turn when criminals go crazy at schools, shopping malls, gas stations, and other public places. Yes, these are tragic occurrences. They demonstrate that crazy people with powerful weapons can do a great deal of harm. It’s scary indeed.
People are much more efficient at killing with an automatic weapon than with a knife or a club. In our early history, the nut cases of the day couldn’t fire off 30 rounds of ammo in the blink of an eye.
We do live in different times and it’s tempting to some to focus on gun control as the answer. It’s terribly misguided logic though.
Our safety will always depend on our ability to defend ourselves with weaponry that is at least as lethal and sophisticated as the weaponry carried by thugs and murderers. We can’t turn back the clock. It’s the price we pay for Technology. We can’t move back to the stone age.
Crazy people will continue to behave irrationally tomorrow and well into the future. This can’t be helped. Gun control certainly won’t help. If law abiding citizens don’t have adequate gun rights, How many thousands or tens of thousands of Americans will be killed by thugs in the future because they are sitting ducks?
It’s awful what some idiots have done with their firearms but how can any sane person think that infringing on our right to bear arms is in our country’s best interest? We can’t let our politicians hold the whole country hostage in order to prevent a few murderous rampages by a handful of nut cases.
I think Ben Franklin said it best with the following words: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
The type of firearms that are legal to own today are no match for what is carried by a modern army. Tactics are a much greater deterrence to defense against tyranny. Today a defense against tyranny found in any kind of violence is ludicrous. These are the facts in evidence. All America has left in its realistic arsenal to protect inalienable individual liberty is the court system. It continues to be gradually taken over by international law. It is the bottom up infiltration of the University educated that continue to advocate for the supremacy of that law of the United Nations in America. The UN has its own human rights Constitution ready to replace ours. Their troops were once ours. It is inevitable that we will be disarmed domicile and workplace and this will occur most often without violence.
This is only the beginning of a communist/fascist rule of the United States of America,at best.
It is not only just this bill to be worried about. If you check there are 35 Muslim training camps in the United States practicing how to kill.
Check out the news at the NRA website. Right now the United Nations is working on a treaty so they other countries can tell you if you have the right to bear arms and or even purchase amunition.
I know there have been many events where people were killed with guns. The one’s that get the news are the bad guys that kill someone. You don’t here much press on people protecting themselves against the bad guys. I have several members of my family that are police officers. They all feel the same about this crap. Their concern, honest citizens will not have guns and become prey for the bad guys. Guns do not kill people. People kill people.
I read above where someone said to leave Obama out of this. Well our Congress passed a recent bill without even reading it. Obama passed the same bill. No PORK, LIE LIE LIE. I love to hunt, but this isn,t about hunting. You can choose not to have a gun in your home if you want. As for me, when someone comes to hurt my family with a gun or knife or bat. They will be met with a gun. If they even try to hurt my loved one’s will turn the other cheak just in time to get off another round.
Grey
Your theory is only correct if all those in the military break their oath and bow to a tyranny. The court system is lost. The blue helmets are the more likely option.
A peaceful demonstrations like the tea parties that are happening now, are the only option left. Let the numbers of free men be seen.
I voted in this election. I did not vote for Obama. I haven’t changed my mind at all. I am very concerned about the number of people that actually vote. We are in a position right now to contact our congressmen. I contacted mine via e-mail. I will call him tomorrow. We must all stand up for our rights. It is very concerning the direction our country is headed. Do you make a stand or not. Will you get in touch with your local news paper and congress or just write an e-mail to vent your feelings? We need to let everyone know this is not going to fly in the UNITED STATES. Or are we even United anymore?
No invasion in 200 years? We were grossly invaded on 9/11!!!!!!!! Has that been forgotten?
I want to see the government come to eastern kentucky and mandate we license our guns and pay a fee to keep a gun that was handed down to us for two or three generations!
Frankly, I don’t know what all the broo-haa-haa is about to be honest. We can ill afford to have Columbines, Jonesboros, and Virginia Techs to be routine across the country.
What a lot of people….especially sensible and responsible gun owners, is that guns don’t kill people. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!
The gun is designed to do one thing and one thing only….and that’s fire a bullet. It isn’t desiged to ask the person pulling the trigger if they really want to fire that bullet.
I’m all for people having their life history under a microscope and being screened before owning a gun. I’m also for a competency test to make sure they know how to use it properly, and that they know how to store it properly if there are children in the area.
I would never vote for something that infringes on the 2nd Amendment. However, i will gladly vote for something that makes sure a moron never owns a gun.
jermey you for the government searching your house when ever they want or them turning the common gun owner like myself who owns guns for hunting into common criminals if so you suck
“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” -Adolf Hitler,1935
Think about it…
I may be a new hunter but I know already it’s hard enough to get ready for hunting, costs, the equiment, the foods, gas, and all the other things that make hunting. I don’t any gun control because this person we elected doesn’t like guns. And on the case of Nancy Pelosi, she can shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. She is just one person that if she left the House right now things would go so much better, she is like the devil sitting on the shoulder of Obama telling him what to do, even though we all know he able to the “change” without her. I rather keep my guns, home, and money instead of this change everyone keeps talking about. The only change coming is that we are becoming a socialist country who won’t be able to defend itself because our guns will be taken away.
I am a young Iraq war Vet and here is an opinion. The only people that are not against this bill are the same “cowards” who in the face of danger will stand by and watch some one loose there life so they can keep their’s. They are the same “cowards” that will stand in front of a TV cammera after the fact and say things like” I thought if we did what they said no one would get hurt” and ” If only the police had a faster responce time this would not have happened”.
Wake up people the polititions have not been looking out for the peoples best intrest in the last 100 years. Our elected officials are so twisted with money and power that the average citizen’s life means nothing to them. Gun control will only effect the law abiding and at the cost of creating more criminals.
I am not one of those “cowards”, I will stand for the rights that molded this great nation, I will protest peacefully and prudently until the time comes that force is needed. Guns = Citizens / No Guns = Subjects
God Bless those who chose to stand for truth and real justice. God be with those who chose to be “cowards”.
vadar308
Amen and thank you for your service.
Here Here Vadar!
I seem to recall something along these lines passes in England a few years back, then they took it a step further and banned fire arms all together. Now England is screaming to the Americans to pay attention to their government, educate it’s people and practice safe safety. Remember we the people give the government it’s power, we can take it away.
jeremy, If you look into history where gun control was inaceted in other countries, many innocent people were and are being killed.
You say you would be in favor of a bill that would keep guns out of the hands of morons. Are you so ignorant that you believe the gang bangers and morons would not own guns it this law is passed.
Many of my family are law inforcement officers. They believe it this is passed most of the morons would have weapons.
You are not informed at all of the situation here in the United States. Look up Muslim training camps in the United States. Do you think they give a crap about how you feel?
Think about 911. If every passenger had a gun on them do you think the towers would have been hit or would someone have shot those jerks.
By the way they killed a lot of people that day and never fired one bullet out of a gun. Get a life!
Just a little follow up for jeremy. If you haven’t checked lately YOU WILL not be voting on this. None of us will have that chance. We must contact our congressmen. Look up the NRA news. OUR Government is working with other Goverments to enable them vote on our laws. It’s called a treaty. DUH Wake up.
Hey, When You get ALL them gun’s from them there Felons and Terrorist give me a call,I’ll still keep my gun just in case. Kind of makes me feel SAFER.
I heard today that this has now gone to the committee stage. I’m a Brit living here in the US, my wife of 32 years is and American and we moved back to the US from the UK in 2001. I’m old enough to remember the first steps taken towards full gun registration in the UK. It started out pretty much like this bill and it just grew and grew and over the years they tagged on more and more regulations. These days in the UK to own a rifle or shotgun or even a muzzle loader is all down to the whims of the local Police Firearms Liaison Officer. He/she decides if you may purchase own or can purchase another firearm. He/she decides how many rounds of ammunition you may hold at any given time and of what caliber. He/she decides how much powder you may have for reloading, how many shell cases you may have, how many bullets, how many primers and to buy any of these you must present a firearms certificate. He/she may visit your home at anytime without warning and without a warrant to check on the security of the firearms and he/she may revoke your firearms license at anytime if they are not happy about something. So folks, some of you may be thinking to yourselves that can’t happen here. Well think again,it can, it happen in the UK and Canada and Australia and it will certainly happen here if allowed. I’m sure most of you have heard the saying Politicians prefer their peasants unarmed. Makes them feel safe to do whatever they want to do.
Blu
CMSteel, they didn’t ban firearms altogether my friend. They banned all handguns after some nutter walked into a School in Dunblane, Scotland with two handguns and shot to death 16 kids all under seven years old and their teacher. Rifles, shotguns and muzzle loaders may still be legally held but the hassle of getting the Shotgun and Firearms certificates puts most people off applying for them.
Blu
Forgot to add that in the first year of the handgun ban in the UK, gun crime rose by 61% and keeps rising every year as do home invasions, stabbings, ( there are ten fatal stabbings in the UK every day, pretty sad for a country not much bigger than Michigan) and muggings have gone through the roof. So as you can see folks, full gun registration really works to deter crime, NOT.
Blu
WHEN THEY BEGIN TO DINK WITH THE CONSTITUTION
AL RIGHTS WE HAVE, WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.
NOT TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD FROM THIS WILL BE
THE REQUIREMENT” NO ONE CAN BUY OR SELL WITHOUT THE MARK ON THEIR FOREHEAD OR RIGHT HAND.” REVELATION CHAPTER 13. YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IT, BUT TRUTH IS NOT CHANGED BY WHAT YOU BELIEVE. THIS ONLY CAN HAPPEN TO PEOPLE WHO FORSAKE GOD AND HIS PRINCIPLES. ONLY TURNING BACK TO GOD CAN RESOLVE WHAT WE NOW SEE HAPPENING.
1. This law is not the way to go!
2. CCW licenses seems to me to be the best way to regulate hand gun use. If you can get a CCW, you shouold be able to own and cary any hand gun. Hunting equipment is totally different and separate.
3. I would support a total ban on the inport, sale, manufacture and ownership of any assault weapon, with extreme penaliies for anyone using one in a crime.
This from a “liberal” (God, I hate lables)
one more thing that i think was overlooked, in sec. 403 it says that they can search anywhere qualifying weapons may be stored. leave that up to government interpretation. that means searching homes, cars, persons, businesses, workplaces, whatever they want.
(God, I hate lables)
“assault weapon” is a label… define it!
Assault Weapon = Any weapon that is used to kill or incapacitate someone who seeks to steal another’s liberty.
I believe that is liberals definition.
Madam Speaker, have you and Blair Holt gone completely out of your minds. Taking guns away from law abideing citizens woud give the crooks a field day for killing and robbing people whenever they wanted to. You couldn’t keep enough police around to stop what would happen if this stupid bill was passed. I am 80 years old and it seems like congress and their laws get more stupid with each passing day. You and Blair Holt are too dangerous to serve a free country if thats your idea of stopping the reall killers.
I seem to recall Canada imposing some type of massive gun registration on their people but the western provinces generally did not comply very well and it cost so much it nearly bankrupted the country. Then the idiots who imposed it got voted out if I recall correctly. This is far outreaching that and so would cost way, way more. Obama is already bankrupting us worse than ever so would such far-reaching legislation actually work??
*http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:1:./temp/~bdENUk:@@@L&summ2=m&/bss/111search.html
*[Temporary file open error. Display failed.]
Your link doesn’t work john.
introduced 1/9/2009. Obama took office almost two weeks later. This was another rights grab by Bush, basically the “vets all have PTSD” bill mark 2. Nice try though.
I would love to see some federal agents come to my house and “check” how safe my guns are without a warrant, they’d be runnin’ out with an a** full of shot.
“Don’t blame me, I voted for McCain/Palin”
It appears that many don’t have a clue who Blair Holt was.
Apparently Blair stepped in front of a schoolmate to protect her as the slime began shooting his thoroughly banned, illegal handgun, that nevertheless killed Blair Holt.
The fact that his young, promising life was stolen from him has been overshadowed by the method by which it was stolen. He has been reduced to an overqualified symbol for fools or deviants that seek to disarm Americans.
This bill is another typical knee jerk reaction by liberals who would rather make criminals out of the law abiding citizenry rather than taking a hard line to enforce the laws already existing on the books.
It should be noted that Illinois Representative Bobby Rush, who introduced the bill, has a dubious past. Readers should research his past dealings with the Black Panthers, and his family’s gang banging activities.
Excuse me but in case you hadnt noticed we are being invaded all the time…they just arent doing it like they used too!!
Michael on January 16th, 2009 11:20 pm
Now just because we have not been invaded for over two hundred years doesn’t mean it can’t happen.
Some of you pinheads are just fueling the fire by saying that anyone who shows up at your door is gonna get a faceful of lead. This is exactly the kind of uneducated, inflammatory rhetoric that’s gonna bring negative attention to an obviously important issue. Aside from that, this is an issue of firearm ownership! FIREARMS, REMEMBER?! You really think that if Johnny Fed was gonna show up at your door to search your house without a warrant that it was gonna be one pencilneck with a detective’s special asking you kindly to let him in? The Feds know that some of you internet tough guys are just waiting to show the rest of the world how big your balls are, so they will be rolling deep, and if you do anything other than exactly what they say it’s gonna turn into “Shoot first, never ask questions.” Use the brains that God gave you to protect the rights that the founding fathers said God gave you. I’m keeping my 1911, and if this bill gets passed, I guess I’ll become one of those “outlaws” that L’Amour referred to. Oh, and I’m a Democrat. Let that stew in your heads for the rest of the day
Many police departments and probably all SWAT teams have automatic weapons to put them on more even ground with the criminals. Unfortunately, we can’t rely on the police to protect us from the criminals in most circumstances. They usually arrive too late to make a difference. My point is, if the police need automatic weapons to resist the criminal element in our society, should the public be entitled to the same weaponry?
This is a tough one because the logic can be carried too far. For example, would it make sense to permit citizens to own military weaponry? As was pointed out earlier by Grey on March 3rd, In modern times, weapons that the public can legally own could never hold up against modern military weaponry. However, as another person pointed out, the probability that our own military would turn on the general public is small. It could happen though, especially if they are lied to and deceived by their leaders.
No one knows the future and what our government may be prepared to do to control the public. Better safe than sorry. The public needs to in charge. This is what it means to be free. The government is much less likely to use military force against its people if they know that the people are armed and will resist in large numbers. It’s not in the interest of any government to abuse the trust of its people and start a civil war.
Our government needs to be more responsible and respectful of the public. If the government would stop trying to relieve us of our rights, perhaps we would trust them a lot more and wouldn’t be arming ourselves to the hilt!
Just a quick note to point out to all those “I have to do this before I own a car” people…no you do NOT have to…let’s put this into perspective…to purchase a car do you have to apply to the gov in DC for permission to buy it? submit mental health records which can be used to deny your application to purchase a car? do you face years in jail if someone not approved by the federal gov uses your car for an errand? do you face years in jail for driving without a DL or proper insurance? (on second thought, lets get a bill like this passed for cars…would make the road safer to jail all those people…)
and this of course does nothing to prevent real crime…(speaking from a criminal standpoint) “oh yes, I’m going to go murder someone today…oh wait, it’s illegal for me to own a gun under federal law, i guess i can’t commit murder then”
come to think of it…maybe we could investigate gun grabbers for drug usage since they seem to believe it’ll have an impact on crime…
I am in shock to find out our money that was given to the bail out the banks was sent to other countries.
I am a Republican and I see where someone said above they were a Dem. and we could stew on that.
This is the small minded problems with our country today. My parents were Dem. for years. They just decided recently they couldn’t vote for that party with the gay rights and such.
In my mind I don’t care what party you belong to. I have come to the point that I believe we need to take our country back. Not by party but by being AMERICANS. We must all put GOD first and work on our government. OUR COUNTRY IS OUT OF CONTROL. Let’s come together and back to what our country was founded on.
It is fine for us to voice our openions here, but we need to write our congressmen and start getting together to let people know we are not happy with the direction of our country.
Wow from tempered to unhinged literate to illeteratttt
AMERICANS all..
When will we wake up and realize that our country is gone
taken be the money men
divide and con the people into believing they (you and i)
are free to support them with ever increasing taxes on US
more rules and regulations on how to live
more lies
more tv
buy my product it will set you free……….
IS IT NOT TIME TO THOW THE TEA INTO THE SEA ONCE AGAIN
John, Well said!!!!!!!!!!!! We must act now. We must move against this crazy spending and taxing. If we don’t act now we will be getting our bread handed out to us by the Government as they see fit.
They want to take our guns so we can’t march foreward against them. What are they affraid of? I believe they have an agenda and it is to turn this country into another Russia.
I went to buy some ammo today. They said they had heard that Obama signed a bill today to ban citizens from purchasing military brass. ??? I don’t know if it is true or not. I am looking into it.
223???? 50 cal????
IF I REMEMBER MY HISTORY, HITLER TRIED THIS IN I THINK 1935. LOOK WHAT IT DID FOR GERMANY.
Here it comes! The first of many laws to keep law avinding citizens from there 2nd amendment rights. If we loose this one we my as well crap are nations history and re-write the entire constitution. The Department of Deffense has already begin destoying all once fired brass so that companies cannot bid and buy these casings even though they are taking a 90 percent reduction in the profits of the brass. They now require all once fired brass to be stredded. So the government is suppose to be going green, yeah right. The government is going after ammunition people. They might not get your guns but they will soon be just simply paper wieghts without ammunition to shoot out of them. The government is trying to make it to expensive to even go an shoot recreationally at a shooting range. The government is trying to tell the people in this country what they can and can not do for recreation in our country not to mention defending our families against rapist and murderers who brake into our houses. Do not blink or our country will be changed forever. Call your reprsentatives today.
Sorry for the misspelled words in the prvious post I am just simply over whelmed with fear. It is true without a doubt that want our guns but have realized that they can not get them that easy but they can make it to expensive to buy ammo.
Josh we need to keep our heads and stick by the NRA. We need to write our congressman and talk to everyone we come in contact with. America is slowly turning against Obama and the crap congress is pulling. With Obama wanting our vets to take care of thier battle related medical problems with personal insurance, people have really started to take notice what he is up to. I didn’t vote for him and certianly will voice my openion about all of this un-American crap that is being pushed on us. We must remember, we must stand up and move forward against this. One might think they can’t do it by themself. We have to talk to everyone we know, get organized and then move forward. I am going to check out CPAC myself. You might want to do the same.
What is wrong with having some control with
guns? Everything seems legit to me. Register your guns just like you register autos, boats, votes. The ACLU agrees with me. Show your ID to get a gun or ammo. Keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. Raise the price of ammo to $10.00 a bullet. Why do you need to shoot guns anyway? Are you 4-F and can’t get your kicks any other way? Keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And Stephen Glassberg, your history is WRONG! HITLER DID NOT DO THAT!
Kevin, I like to go out and shoot my guns. Just at targets and I like to hunt as well. If you don’t that is OK with me. But that doesn’t give you the right to look down your nose at those that enjoy such things. You seem to be an upfront person. I have many of my family members that are police officers. They would all tell you that you are dead wrong. You would never keep the guns out of the hands of criminals they would keep thier guns and buy more on the black market.
Our second amendment is just that, the right to keep and bear arms. Our founding fathers were smart enough back then to realize there could be a government that might need to be overthown. Why do you not want to stand by the constitution of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA??? Perhaps you should move to Mexico where the drug lords are fighting and killing each other. Even before this started if you tried to cross the mexican boarder with a gun in your car you would be arrested. The drug lords have automatic weapons. Do you think they are goin to give them up or register their guns if this is passed? Please!!!!!!!!!!!! I know your type. As soon as the crap hits the fan you will be running to someone with a gun to protect you. Perhaps they will be willing to do just that, Maybe they won’t have any ammo and won’t be able to help you.
Just a few more thoughts. You can buy a boat without registration. You can buy a car and choose not to register it later if you want to. It is obvious you haven’t bought a gun at a store. As long as I can remember you have to register it when you buy it. You can sell it later and it doesn’t have to be registered. Just like a boat or a car. It is already that way. You just don’t know what you are talking about.
I don’t carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
I don’t carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.
I don’t carry a gun because I’m paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
I don’t carry a gun because I’m evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
I don’t carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
I don’t carry a gun because I’m angry.
I carry a gun so that I don’t have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
I don’t carry a gun because I’m a cowboy.
I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a
cowboy.
I don’t carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
I don’t carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
I don’t carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin’.
They tried Gun Control in Australia and it got worse. Armed Crime skyrocketed. Same in England!
Let’s make donations to clean out Congress of everyone who votes for this cockamamey bill !
Wait a minute… where did this Bill come from?
Illinois? Oh yeah, THAT state…the crooked state in the Union. Where did that Governor come from? Illinois? Where did the President… oh never mind!
Hey Kevin Perry, since youu are an expert on firearms. Are you aware that you are one hundred times more likely to be killed in an auto accident than you are by a handgun in the United States of America, thats national safety counsel statistics. If we go by your reasoning, we need to register with the government every time we fill our tanks up with gasoline. Gas should cost fifty dollars a gallon and a big portion of that cost should pay for all the people killed and injured in traffic accidents. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned this fact because the ACLU might jump on this bandwagon.
There you go ACLU and all your supporters, Lovelle Mixon a gang member in Oakland California has just killed three police officers and wounded two more on March 21st. Of course he was a convicted felon in posession of firearms and i will bet he didn’t have his guns registered. He had a no-bond warrant out for his arrest and parole violation. But Kevin Perry and people that think like him want to disarm leagal gun owners so the Lovelle Mixons of the world can prey on us, good thinking.I am sure Lovelle Mixon was obeying all the hundreds of gun laws that have been inacted. The Lord be with the fallen Police Officers and their families.
Well said Adrian, I am sad over the news of the fallen officers. There will be those that will say if there was gun control this wouldn’t have happened. HE IS CERTIANLY A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN!!!!! By the way Kevin Perry he was a fellon. It is already against the law for him to carry a fire arm. Guess he forgot!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH
Well if we outlaw planes they won’t fly anymore into American buildings.
If we outlaw knives people won’t get cut anymore. If we outlaw cars people won’t get hurt in auto accidents or run over anyone.
If we outlaw plastic bags people won’t have them tied on their heads and get smothered anymore.
If we outlaw ropes people won’t get hung anymore.
If we outlaw drugs or make it mandatory for you to register when you buy them people won’t get hurt anymore. I am sure all of the people strung out on drugs will run down and register when they need a fix. OOPs we already have drugs outlawed. Hasn’t stopped people from buying it. It has made a lot of people rich that sell the crap.
We need outlaw swords and such, since the TALIBAN is cutting some of our folks heads off. That will stop um I bet.
The government of the United States is By the People and for the People. We have lost that and need to get it back!!!!
Want my guns? Come get’em!
Hi
I just read all the comments on this post. and if you would like to know what there plan is Google Mack White and read TV and the hive mind. then you will understand how we have got to where we are.
http://www.mackwhite.com/tv.html
For law-abiding, felony-free citizens…
When SECONDS count, the Police will respond in MINUTES…
Compare and contrast:
Elmer Davis
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it … This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Alan Dershowitz
Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the constitution by claiming it’s not an individual right or that it’s too much of a safety hazard don’t see the danger of the big picture. They’re courting disaster by encouraging others to use this same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don’t like.
Dianne Feinstein
Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe.
Janet Reno
Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal. Gun registration is not enough.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Karl Marx
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need”
H.G. Wells
The great trouble with you Americans is that you are still under the influence of that second-rate — shall I say third-rate? — mind, Karl Marx.
Calvin Coolidge
Liberty is not collective, it is personal. All liberty is individual liberty.
Bertrand de Jouvenel
A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.
Josef Stalin
America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.
C. L. De Montesquieu
The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded.
Patrick Henry
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect anyone who approaches that jewel! Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force, and whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined!”
Patrick Henry
Tell me when did liberty ever exist when the sword and the purse were given up?
Nikita Khrushchev
We can’t expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism.
Karl Marx
The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to Socialism. My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.
Hubert H. Humphrey
Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms…. The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible.
Thomas Jefferson
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters From The Federal Farmer, 1788
To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always posses arms…
Samuel Adams, Massachusetts’ U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788
The Constitution [shall] be never construed to … prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.
Samuel Adams
Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it.
Noah Webster, An Examination of The Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787
The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force far superior to any band of regular troops…
Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
John Adams, A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America, 1788
Arms in the hands of individual citizens [may] be used at individual discretion … in private self-defense…
Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775
…[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
Thomas Paine
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.
Edmund Burke, Speech at country meeting of Buckinghamshire, 1784
The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Patrick Henry, Virginia’s U.S. Constitution ratification convention
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When you give up that force you are ruined.
William Pitt, Speech, November 18, 1777
If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I would never lay down my arms – never – never – never! You cannot conquer America.
William Pitt
Necessity is the plea for infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
James Madison, The Federalist, No.46
(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans posses over the people of almost every other nation … (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
Thomas Jefferson, August 19, 1785
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion on your walks.
Ben Franklin
“The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.”
Thomas Jefferson
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
George Washington
“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action”.
Rothschild Brothers of London communiqué to associates in New York June 25, 1863
“The few who understand the system, will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favors that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages…will bear its burden without complaint, and perhaps without suspecting that the system is inimical to their best interests.”
Nrasucks,
Sorry to hear about your mother, but had she been exercising her 2nd amendment rights, she may have been able to defend herself. Nobody is guaranteed safety in life. We are responsible for our own safety. That means exercising your right to bear arms. Guns are not the issue. Crime is the issue. An unarmed individual is a victim. An armed individual is a citizen. Cars are not a right guaranteed by the constitution, but gun ownership is. While what happened to your mother is terrible, it would be even more terrible to force everyone to be a victim of criminals who will not obey the law by their very nature. If you think criminals will miraculously start obeying this one piece of legislation, you are as delusional as the individuals who created this proposed legislation.
Think gun control works? Look at Mexico, where gun ownership is illegal. If this law wasn’t in place, the people would have had another revolution long ago to depose their various dictators. Now, the drug lords and other criminals outgun the corrupt police and use their firearms at will. Is that what we want here?