Comments on: Rachel Maddow Sympathetic Toward Israel http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/ Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:22:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Steve http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-142910 Steve Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:41:28 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-142910 The critique of a Jewish State is unfounded. All of Israel's citizens have a vote and it is the most free democratic state in the Middle East. The notion that all states should be democratic and secular would presuppose that all the Islamic States including Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. should become secular. I wouldn't hold my breath. Further the myth/succrilous attack that Israel is a European settler state belies the fact that more than half of Israel's citizens are descendant of Jews from Arab lands who transfered in the early 1950s. In fact, there were more Jews who transfered from Arab Lands (800,000) than there were Arabs who left during the Israeli War of Independence in 1948. Only the Jews were integrated into Israel. The Arabs from Palestine have not been integrated, are prohibited by law from holding certain occupations in some states(Lebanon), and are the only long term refugee welfare clients of the UN (using US money). The critique of a Jewish State is unfounded. All of Israel’s citizens have a vote and it is the most free democratic state in the Middle East. The notion that all states should be democratic and secular would presuppose that all the Islamic States including Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. should become secular. I wouldn’t hold my breath. Further the myth/succrilous attack that Israel is a European settler state belies the fact that more than half of Israel’s citizens are descendant of Jews from Arab lands who transfered in the early 1950s. In fact, there were more Jews who transfered from Arab Lands (800,000) than there were Arabs who left during the Israeli War of Independence in 1948. Only the Jews were integrated into Israel. The Arabs from Palestine have not been integrated, are prohibited by law from holding certain occupations in some states(Lebanon), and are the only long term refugee welfare clients of the UN (using US money).

]]> By: avi http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-142855 avi Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:18:09 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-142855 I dont like Maddow after seeing this. another thing about the right to exists. Israel will not say what its borders are. its occupying 43% of the west bank right now and controlling the rest. Why or how could anyone reconize Israels right to exist without knowing what that means. do they reconize israels right to exist on palestenian land? of course not. so the whole reconize israels right to exist is bs imo. israel is a fanatical state. i dont know what will happen to them. the us has to get off this train of supporting them, cause for all their military might they seem to be heading off a cliff. I dont like Maddow after seeing this.

another thing about the right to exists.

Israel will not say what its borders are. its occupying 43% of the west bank right now and controlling the rest. Why or how could anyone reconize Israels right to exist without knowing what that means. do they reconize israels right to exist on palestenian land? of course not. so the whole reconize israels right to exist is bs imo.

israel is a fanatical state. i dont know what will happen to them. the us has to get off this train of supporting them, cause for all their military might they seem to be heading off a cliff.

]]> By: Clarence http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-132579 Clarence Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:46:26 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-132579 Rachel Maddow is usually well-informed, it has seemed to me, until I listened to this video. Here she takes the Israeli side, hook,line and sinker, and, by so doing, betrays all the good things she has said over the years I've listened to her. I doubt she has ever read a complete book on the subject of Israeli/Palestinian relations throughout the years. She really ought to take a look at Pappe, Chomsky, Morris, Schlaim, Braverman, Ateek, Chacour, etc. She would feel much better about herself in the long run. Rachel Maddow is usually well-informed, it has seemed to me, until I listened to this video. Here she takes the Israeli side, hook,line and sinker, and, by so doing, betrays all the good things she has said over the years I’ve listened to her. I doubt she has ever read a complete book on the subject of Israeli/Palestinian relations throughout the years. She really ought to take a look at Pappe, Chomsky, Morris, Schlaim, Braverman, Ateek, Chacour, etc. She would feel much better about herself in the long run.

]]> By: Bret http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-132443 Bret Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:08:54 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-132443 The "Israel's right to exist" bit is being misused here as it so often is elsewhere. What people are saying, is that the concept of a European settler state with racial/religious preferential treatment in its constitutional framework should not exist. This is similar to saying apartheid South Africa should not exist. It's not saying Jewish citizens of Israel should not exist any more than being anti-apartheid South Africa was saying that white South Africans should not exist. Rather, it's simply saying that any State should be a democratic, secular State. The “Israel’s right to exist” bit is being misused here as it so often is elsewhere. What people are saying, is that the concept of a European settler state with racial/religious preferential treatment in its constitutional framework should not exist. This is similar to saying apartheid South Africa should not exist. It’s not saying Jewish citizens of Israel should not exist any more than being anti-apartheid South Africa was saying that white South Africans should not exist. Rather, it’s simply saying that any State should be a democratic, secular State.

]]> By: Marjorie http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-132434 Marjorie Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:36:06 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-132434 I was a strong Maddow fan until I saw this--by accident btw. Her recitation of Israel's history and the situation in Gaza now was so terribly uninformed, I cannot trust her about anything else she says. I'm so sad about that, because she was my favorite news source. To talk about this crucial topic w/o any more knowledge or wisdom than she showed is terrible. Obviously her sources are so biased she's w/o the knowledge she needs to form reasonably opinions on this topic, and if on this one, I must question all the other topics she's wowed me with. I was a strong Maddow fan until I saw this–by accident btw. Her recitation of Israel’s history and the situation in Gaza now was so terribly uninformed, I cannot trust her about anything else she says. I’m so sad about that, because she was my favorite news source. To talk about this crucial topic w/o any more knowledge or wisdom than she showed is terrible. Obviously her sources are so biased she’s w/o the knowledge she needs to form reasonably opinions on this topic, and if on this one, I must question all the other topics she’s wowed me with.

]]> By: Carol http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111663 Carol Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:59:45 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-111663 Rachel is always informed to the hilt, BUT I'm not really sure why she's on the list of famous Jews. Her dad converted when he was an adult. She was raised Catholic and she has aunt's who are nun's! Rachel is always informed to the hilt, BUT I’m not really sure why she’s on the list of famous Jews. Her dad converted when he was an adult. She was raised Catholic and she has aunt’s who are nun’s!

]]> By: Matt http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111608 Matt Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:12:37 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-111608 Actually liberals are much more realistic than many so-called conservatives say. If they chose to listen rathen than just making assumptions that all liberals are the same and think exactly a certain way then maybe some actual discussion and debate could occur. Actually liberals are much more realistic than many so-called conservatives say. If they chose to listen rathen than just making assumptions that all liberals are the same and think exactly a certain way then maybe some actual discussion and debate could occur.

]]> By: Melissa in NorCal http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111554 Melissa in NorCal Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:25:08 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-111554 She actually makes a lot of sense. I don't think there is a political solution either. Sucks. THat said, it is rare to see a liberal lay it out bare and correctly. She actually makes a lot of sense. I don’t think there is a political solution either. Sucks. THat said, it is rare to see a liberal lay it out bare and correctly.

]]> By: Carl Gordon http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111545 Carl Gordon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:22:41 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-111545 It’s really difficult, given the plethora of real and suspect facts that just keep getting flung in from various pro and con sources, to get an tangible and dispassionate grasp on who/what/why this is all happening. For every reasoned plea for civility based on one or the other country’s right to exist, there’s at least dozens of rabid rants and disengaged diatribes flung with equal fervor, clouding the already muddled issues. It’s a lot like having bees run loose in your head. As part of my hopefully not-pointless attempts at community integration, and in the hopes of both sides returning to the austere table of reason and justice, I’m further continuing with my exploitation of the different faiths available 24 hours in my village in the hopes of gaining erudition and perhaps chasing the spooks of bedlam away. Because I care! Today I attended seasonal bung service at the Zion Christian Church (ZCC). From what I’ve gleaned from the disinformation of their web site so far, the ZCC pastor has the largest member of all the churches in my village. I believe the ZCC has grey and roan foal origins, related to Gum Legs, which I bet the entire family fortune on in the 5th at Santa Anita, only to end in disappointment whence he slipped on the errant stool left from the previous $10,000 claimer. It’s easy to know who ZCC members are in the community because they all wear a miniature commode tool over a small piece of green felt, cut in the shape of their favorite cookie. Both of the General Duty Bottoms (short for assistants) in my surgical Johnson clinic are ZCC members. Non-ZCC members are sworn to a vow of silence, uncovered and forced to engage in the ZCC and their odd rituals, I was warned. Today as the clinic driver was transporting me home, I mentioned ZCC and he laughed. He said that the ZCC do indeed have some odd rituals, among them drinking lots of instant coffee, sticking a metal pipe in their “output” to induce free flow, listening to “Bob and Ray Show” reruns, and jumping while simultaneously venting and singing. Well, at the service I attended I observed none of these odd rituals except the coffee and the jumping/venting/singing thing. I was especially happy about being left out of the metal pipe to the “output” ritual! It’s really difficult, given the plethora of real and suspect facts that just keep getting flung in from various pro and con sources, to get an tangible and dispassionate grasp on who/what/why this is all happening. For every reasoned plea for civility based on one or the other country’s right to exist, there’s at least dozens of rabid rants and disengaged diatribes flung with equal fervor, clouding the already muddled issues. It’s a lot like having bees run loose in your head.

As part of my hopefully not-pointless attempts at community integration, and in the hopes of both sides returning to the austere table of reason and justice, I’m further continuing with my exploitation of the different faiths available 24 hours in my village in the hopes of gaining erudition and perhaps chasing the spooks of bedlam away. Because I care!

Today I attended seasonal bung service at the Zion Christian Church (ZCC). From what I’ve gleaned from the disinformation of their web site so far, the ZCC pastor has the largest member of all the churches in my village. I believe the ZCC has grey and roan foal origins, related to Gum Legs, which I bet the entire family fortune on in the 5th at Santa Anita, only to end in disappointment whence he slipped on the errant stool left from the previous $10,000 claimer. It’s easy to know who ZCC members are in the community because they all wear a miniature commode tool over a small piece of green felt, cut in the shape of their favorite cookie. Both of the General Duty Bottoms (short for assistants) in my surgical Johnson clinic are ZCC members. Non-ZCC members are sworn to a vow of silence, uncovered and forced to engage in the ZCC and their odd rituals, I was warned. Today as the clinic driver was transporting me home, I mentioned ZCC and he laughed. He said that the ZCC do indeed have some odd rituals, among them drinking lots of instant coffee, sticking a metal pipe in their “output” to induce free flow, listening to “Bob and Ray Show” reruns, and jumping while simultaneously venting and singing. Well, at the service I attended I observed none of these odd rituals except the coffee and the jumping/venting/singing thing. I was especially happy about being left out of the metal pipe to the “output” ritual!

]]> By: Two Dogs http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/01/08/rachel-maddow-sympathetic-toward-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111539 Two Dogs Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:02:29 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=18771#comment-111539 Is there any particular reason for the photo of Harry Potter at the top of this post? And what is he eating? Is there any particular reason for the photo of Harry Potter at the top of this post? And what is he eating?

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