FDL Hysteria: Oh, Those Evil Cluster Bombs!
Posted on January 4, 2009
Well, I had an interesting, if somewhat pissed off sounding, post about AGW teed up, but, then I ran across the unhinged Left at Firedoglake
There’s more evidence today of Israeli use of cluster bombs, originally noted by Laura Doty at Oxdown. The Times of London features a photo in it’s coverage (see Gaza Conflict slide show) with the following description..
An artillery round sends out bomblets above Gaza City, which continues to be attacked by Israeli forces
So, let’s see: The post at FDL sources another post at FDL which sources another at FDL, which was sourcing one from a Palestinian in Gaza writing a blog. No actual other verification. And the link to the Times Of London slide show has no photo or description such as that posted. But, here we go!
The use of cluster bombs – which have a large footprint when initially dropped and then remain a threat for decades – in a location like the Gaza Strip which is so packed with people is horrifying.
Now, for the record, the use of cluster bombs in heavily civilian areas is horrifying. Yeah, mass bombings were acceptable in World War II, but, they have gone out of fashion since. But, two points: First, there is no actual confirmation that the Israeli’s are using cluster munitions.
Second, cruise back through the archives at FDL, and see if you can find any post calling the random rockets shot into Israel by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, or any other terrorist group being called “horrifying.” Heck, see if you can find a post which even takes the Palestinian groups to task for their launching of rockets into Israel, suicide bombings, or any of the other atrocities the Religion of Peace likes to engage in, targeting civilians on purpose!
» Filed Under Delusional Dupes and DUmmies, Democrats, Israel, Liberal World, Middle East, News, RoP, Unhinged
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22 Responses to “FDL Hysteria: Oh, Those Evil Cluster Bombs!”
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THANKS FOR CALLING THEM[LEFT] TO THE MAT ON THAT!
Haaretz today confirmed the use of cluster munitions in Gaza.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052331.html
Here are pics of cluster munitions or White Phosporus munitions setting fires in urban areas.
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/84166547/Getty-Images-News
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/84166551/Getty-Images-News
I’m not even going to look, because I know they won’t have any posts condemning the Pals anyway. These people are so predictable.
The Palestinian blogger mentioned provides his name, email, landline number, and Skype address. Why not call him up and ask him for proof?
Then you could contact Ha’aretz and ask them for proof too, since that Israeli newspaper also reported the use of cluster bombs: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052331.html
And if the Israelis are using cluster bombs, it’s not really enough to say that Hamas has been firing rockets. After all, the Israelis are supposed to be better than Hamas.
Cluster bombs are anti-personnel devices designed to kill enemies.
If Hamas insists on positioning there arsenals and weaponry in civilian areas, and killing Israeli civilians, then Israel should do its utmost to kill as many of their enemies as they can to DETER further aggression by Hamas.
Where does it say anywhere that playground rules apply to warfare against a suicidal population that believes in martyrdom?
Why deprive the “citizens” their religious right before Allah to martyr themselves for Islam?
Get a grip.
Crawford, on one hand Liberals call Israel a terrorist nation and that the Jews should have been wiped out by Hitler, then, in the next breath, say they should be better then the terrorists, then they tend to take the view point that the Palestinians are the good guys. It’s hard to keep the viewpoints straight.
But, like Bear wrote, it’s war. If Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza didn’t want to have to deal with things like cluster bombs, they shouldn’t have started it with Israel. Poke a bear with a stick, and the bear will open you up like a can of tuna.
Israel intends to finish Hamas. And then it will be Hezbollah’s turn in the barrel.
Good riddance to organized crime devoid of any allegiance to national interests.
The world’s nations are not beyond reproach by any means. But i ask anybody that hails Hamas and Hezbollah as champions of human dignity, to think about that style of running things running your neighborhood. Hezbollah has a toehold on US soil…go to Dearborn MI.
Time to wake up.
I’ll be including this in a round up of news and information about the War in Gaza. It will come out later this evening.
William, it will be easier to keep things straight if you don’t confuse yourself with straw men. Anyone who thinks that Hitler should have wiped out the Jews is no liberal; by definition such a person is a Nazi and likely to be found over at Stormfront, not at MoveOn.
No nation is “terrorist,” but governments, like movements, can adopt terrorist tactics. Killing and maiming civilians to get the survivors to behave in a politically desirable way is terrorism no matter who does it.
“It’s war” is an excuse I used to hear for Stalin’s behavior, and the Nazis no doubt used it for the Holocaust. So did the Hutus against the Tutsis. Would you say “It’s war” if Israel dropped a couple of nuclear weapons on Gaza?
It’s precisely because war can get out of hand that we have international laws and treaties banning weapons like poison gas, and policies like genocide.
As for bears, I get ‘em in my front yard and I run into them when I walk my dogs. We and the bears have enough sense to keep out of each other’s way.
The Israelis aren’t bears, but they’re fallible human beings who can make disastrous mistakes under stress, just like the rest of us. And when our friends make mistakes, we should try to help them stop before they make things even worse.
@crawford, you should read the article you linked a little closer. It clearly states that Israel has been using cluster bombs on open areas. Strategically speaking, this would be to destroy any landmines/booby traps in those areas that would hinder the Israeli advance. I have yet to see pictures of large areas of urban areas levelled and in fact, such a move would actually make it harder for the Israeli army by provider more cover for the terrorists.
Bear in mind, Mark, that cluster bombs don’t have a best-before date. Like munitions still going off in Laos and Cambodia, cluster bombs laid down this weekend may kill people (probably kids) who won’t be born in this decade.
Cluster bombs, to the best of my knowledge (I’m US Army 63-65, so not too current) aren’t much use against land mines or booby traps. They’re anti-personnel weapons, designed to go off when disturbed.
The point really isn’t whether cluster bombs are militarily efficient or just fun to use. The point is whether this invasion of Gaza, however waged, is in the long-term interests of Israel, the US, and my own country, Canada (which has signed a treaty banning cluster munitions).
Plenty of Israelis, including I suspect many readers of Ha’aretz, think the invasion was a mistake on the scale of the Iraq War. A majority of Americans, according to Rasmussen, aren’t too happy about it either.
The invasion has certainly angered Arabs and Muslims around the world, and made life very awkward for governments like Egypt’s. An unknown but likely large number of young Muslim men, as far away as Indonesia, are ready to volunteer to fight Israel.
From this perspective, Hamas’s stupid rockets have been more effective than Hitler’s V-2s ever were: They’ve provoked an Israeli overreaction that guarantees an overreaction on the Muslim side, ensuring a continuing war rather than some sullen Israel-imposed peace.
From Hamas’s point of view (which I certainly don’t endorse), every dead civilian in Gaza will recruit hundreds of angry young men and women to carry on the fight. All Hamas has to do to win is not lose.
In World War II, Stalin didn’t bother to clear mines before he sent his troops into action. His generals had done a cost-benefit analysis: The troops lost to landmines were no greater than those lost to artillery. So Stalin cleared landmines with his own soldiers.
Hamas is doing the same thing: Not because they’re wicked subhumans, but because civilian casualties are just part of the equation…just like the Iraqi kids that Madeleine Albright thought were worth killing to keep Saddam bottled up.
You may endorse one side or the other (I’m sick of both), but the people who make these decisions don’t waste their time moralizing on blogs about cluster bombs. They’re just trying to maximize the benefits for their side in terms of lives expended for advantages gained.
Using clusterbombs to clear mines is inherently stupid, that’s like pissing your pants for warmth.
It won’t work, since the undetonated bomblets only will represent a worse threats than the mines they purportedly would remove.
This is just STUPID, STUPID and STUPID.
Ignore the problem.
Let both sides kill each other.
It’s what we should have done in Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany (WWII).
Neutrality for America.
If Israel wants to kill all the Palestinians, USA should not be involved.
I hope Obama brings back all our troops from Middle East ASAP.
I want Obama to keep his election promises as soon as he is president.
America is p0wned by the welfare state of Israel.
Anyone that shoots at my house,
I’m going to shoot back. I’ll use whatever means of artillery on hand to do so. Isreal
has that right. Glad they’re finally
doing something about it. Hamas can talk
big, but then run hide.
Who cares if the Arabs, Muslims get mad.
They hate and want to destroy Isreal just
because they exist so what does it matter.
Stop shooting rockets into Isreal, and they
will not have to kill you.
Israel is killing the enemies of America. This is fine by me.
“1000’s protest Israel’s invasion into Gaza”
“Muslim’s around the world condemn Israel’s advance into Gaza”
If the Muslim’s around the world are so peaceful, then why no outcry when hamas ( or any other group) shoots rockets or sends suicide bombers into Israel.
I never hear any condemnation from the “innocent civilians” when Israel is attacked.
You only see them on the news cheering and dancing.
They are all terrorists bent on Israel’s destruction.
If you don’t believe this you had better wake up!
Crawford Kilian: They aren’t justifying the use of cluster bombs. In fact, if you actually read the post (you did right?), you’ll see he specifically states the use of cluster bombs is horrifying.
Merely pointing out the selective outrage of the liberal left.
What happens to the body if pieces of the cluster bomb strike the human torso? I’ve heard it whizzes about on the inside causing horrific pain even more than a bullet (though how would I know since I’ve never been shot.) If Israel and the US were to sign off on the cluster bomb ban would that weaken their security? Probably not, but since I only have an aged DD214 in my possession who am I to pose such questions.
Curious,
Maybe if enough cluster bombs cause enough pain to enough terrorists or to people they love, the terrorists will being to focus on something other than murdering Jews. Maybe, just maybe they would develop a legal code that did not include stoning/hanging homosexuals? Perhaps they could join the 20th century and allow women greater political status than donkey? Maybe they could even educate women instead of shrouding them in a mobile fabric prison?
Military action is never pleasant. Why is it that the anti-Semitic crowd always wants Israel to find some painless, sensible way to conduct a defensive military operation, but will NEVER condemn Muslims for targeting school buses and pizza parlors filled with mothers, children, and secondary school kids? If there were a way to conduct a “proportional” defensive response, what would it be? Loud noises? Very-Bad-Smell weapons? You people are straight out of Monty Python, and you really DO believe that the world would be just fine if schools had all the money they needed (LOL!) and the Air Force had to have a bake sale to buy a bomber! (sniff, tear.)
The only way to confront agression is with withering force. Again, no one could have reasoned with Hitler. The one guy who tried caused the deaths of 100 million people. YOU people are his ideological heirs. Choke that down and wait until Hamas or Hezbully gets their hands on an Iranian built or second hand Soviet nuke. Would you bet your family’s lives on them showing “restraint”?
Curious, I think you are missing the point. Y’all on the Left, and, in this case, FDL are complaining about the cluster bombs that the EVIL JEWS are using, yet, you almost never complain about what the Islamists do to the Israelites and other non Muslims. Should I take it that you have no problem with launching attacks specifically aimed at civilians by Muslims is A-OK? Ones that specifically target children and women, and pregnant women?
Phoshorous or magnesium flares, not cluster bombs, otherwise the death toll would’ve jumped by thousands not a hundred or so.