Comments on: Thomas Jefferson Says Forget About Barack’s Birth Certificate http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/ Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:01:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: DanDeirdorf http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109964 DanDeirdorf Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:03:58 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109964 Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health. (b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record: (1) The registrant; (2) The spouse of the registrant; (3) A parent of the registrant; (4) A descendant of the registrant; (5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant; (6) A legal guardian of the registrant; (7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant; (8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate; (9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction; (10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents; (11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony; (12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and (13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy. (c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made. (d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public. (e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year. (f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct. (g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is: (1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy; (2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities; (3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization; (4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or (5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.
(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.
(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.
(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.

]]> By: Trel http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109611 Trel Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:56:48 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109611 And you don't know the half of it!! Just wait until the REAL Mr. and Mrs. Obama are exposed. That time is coming, and very soon. And you don’t know the half of it!!
Just wait until the REAL Mr. and Mrs. Obama are exposed. That time is coming, and very soon.

]]> By: Warner Todd Huston http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109567 Warner Todd Huston Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:21:42 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109567 BridgetteB, I agree with you. I live in Chicago and know intimately how corrupt the politics are here. Also how closely Obama is aligned with it. But, it is too late. He won. And, if you think I said that we should just go on and say our Constitution is meaningless, then you neither grasped my points, not read with a clear eye my post. I will not dignify that accusation with serious discussion. BridgetteB,

I agree with you. I live in Chicago and know intimately how corrupt the politics are here. Also how closely Obama is aligned with it.

But, it is too late. He won.

And, if you think I said that we should just go on and say our Constitution is meaningless, then you neither grasped my points, not read with a clear eye my post. I will not dignify that accusation with serious discussion.

]]> By: BridgetteB http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109565 BridgetteB Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:10:25 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109565 Mr. Huston: While I appreciate your viewpoint and understand how this issue is a difficult one to grasp, in good conscience, I still can't sit back and not do all I can to make this issue know to the public. The MSM did not vet this man for office; instead they gave him a pass. There isn't anyone that can say they have as much knowledge about him as they do about Sarah Palin or Joe the Plumber. This hype and image creation was done using the best marketing ever seen. Perhaps that is what made me start researching, because it was so unusual. What I found certainly didn't match what I was seeing on TV on any of the stations. I thought I was reading and hearing about two separate individuals. The one I researched and the one presented on TV. Because the candidates I supported weren't chosen, I needed to learn about the others. Needless to say, I did research Obama, and was aghast at what I read. I believed there would be no way that anyone would vote for the man with his background or no accomplishments...not for the highest office in the land. I was wrong. I also was researching the citizenship issue of both candidates. That is where I saw problems, and then others were seeing those problems also. I looked up the vetting process, and could find no information as to who is responsible to ensure that both candidates are eligible. What and who I thought did it, the DNC, was incorrect. I understood Natural Born citizen, but couldn't see how Obama could be natural born if his father was from Kenya. That is about the time all the lawsuits started which was way before the election. No man hides all his documentation from the public when he runs for office; his life is an open book. Obama lost, destroyed, sealed or hid any documentation regarding his life. An honest man doesn't hire 3 law firms, 8 attorneys, and spend over $800,000 to fight lawsuits requesting him to prove his eligibility if he is not hiding something. Can we agree that Obama taught Constitutional Law and that he would understand the eligibility requirements before he ran for president? If we know that there would be no misunderstanding of the term, natural born citizen, to a lecturer on the subject, and a graduate of Harvard, would we consider him to be fraudulently running for office? If he signed a form, a document stating that he was a natural born citizen, wouldn't it be considered fraud? I believe it would be. Now I will give you the URL so you can see it. http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/obama-not-eligible-obama-not-natural-born-citizen-obama-signature-on-arizona-candidate-nomination-paper-moniquemonicat-blog-did-obama-commit-fraud-did-obama-lie/ To me, he has already lied to the public, and we should be outraged, not complacent. When I saw the Arizona document that he signed stating he was a Natural Born Citizen, I knew this man was unethical, untrustworthy, and without character. He is not the man to represent the USA as our President, the highest office in the nation. No we can not turn a blind eye to this, we can’t allow this man to set a dangerous precedent. It is immoral and wrong. He has deliberately deceived the American public. Those people that say just let it go, the people have spoken, are saying that our Constitution is meaningless. I emphatically disagree with letting this pass. If the public had been given information about him, instead of fluff, he would never have received the votes. If they knew he deliberately lied, and there can’t be any misunderstanding, they would be as stunned and as incensed as I am and, as you should be. Mr. Huston:
While I appreciate your viewpoint and understand how this issue is a difficult one to grasp, in good conscience, I still can’t sit back and not do all I can to make this issue know to the public. The MSM did not vet this man for office; instead they gave him a pass. There isn’t anyone that can say they have as much knowledge about him as they do about Sarah Palin or Joe the Plumber. This hype and image creation was done using the best marketing ever seen. Perhaps that is what made me start researching, because it was so unusual. What I found certainly didn’t match what I was seeing on TV on any of the stations. I thought I was reading and hearing about two separate individuals. The one I researched and the one presented on TV. Because the candidates I supported weren’t chosen, I needed to learn about the others.

Needless to say, I did research Obama, and was aghast at what I read. I believed there would be no way that anyone would vote for the man with his background or no accomplishments…not for the highest office in the land. I was wrong.

I also was researching the citizenship issue of both candidates. That is where I saw problems, and then others were seeing those problems also. I looked up the vetting process, and could find no information as to who is responsible to ensure that both candidates are eligible. What and who I thought did it, the DNC, was incorrect. I understood Natural Born citizen, but couldn’t see how Obama could be natural born if his father was from Kenya. That is about the time all the lawsuits started which was way before the election.

No man hides all his documentation from the public when he runs for office; his life is an open book. Obama lost, destroyed, sealed or hid any documentation regarding his life. An honest man doesn’t hire 3 law firms, 8 attorneys, and spend over $800,000 to fight lawsuits requesting him to prove his eligibility if he is not hiding something.

Can we agree that Obama taught Constitutional Law and that he would understand the eligibility requirements before he ran for president? If we know that there would be no misunderstanding of the term, natural born citizen, to a lecturer on the subject, and a graduate of Harvard, would we consider him to be fraudulently running for office? If he signed a form, a document stating that he was a natural born citizen, wouldn’t it be considered fraud? I believe it would be. Now I will give you the URL so you can see it.

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/obama-not-eligible-obama-not-natural-born-citizen-obama-signature-on-arizona-candidate-nomination-paper-moniquemonicat-blog-did-obama-commit-fraud-did-obama-lie/

To me, he has already lied to the public, and we should be outraged, not complacent. When I saw the Arizona document that he signed stating he was a Natural Born Citizen, I knew this man was unethical, untrustworthy, and without character. He is not the man to represent the USA as our President, the highest office in the nation. No we can not turn a blind eye to this, we can’t allow this man to set a dangerous precedent. It is immoral and wrong. He has deliberately deceived the American public.

Those people that say just let it go, the people have spoken, are saying that our Constitution is meaningless. I emphatically disagree with letting this pass. If the public had been given information about him, instead of fluff, he would never have received the votes. If they knew he deliberately lied, and there can’t be any misunderstanding, they would be as stunned and as incensed as I am and, as you should be.

]]> By: Warner Todd Huston http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109558 Warner Todd Huston Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:19:15 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109558 Ben, you are too stupid to reply to. Have a nice life. Try learning some grammar. Ben, you are too stupid to reply to. Have a nice life. Try learning some grammar.

]]> By: Polarik http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109556 Polarik Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:18:54 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109556 "OK, I have basically stayed silent about this whole Obama birth certificate dust up." After alling felony document fraud, a "dust-up", you should have stayed silent.. Our founding fathers did not approve of using fraud to steal the White House. They tended to want their Presidents to be honest men and no con artists and criminals. “OK, I have basically stayed silent about this whole Obama birth certificate dust up.”

After alling felony document fraud, a “dust-up”, you should have stayed silent..

Our founding fathers did not approve of using fraud to steal the White House. They tended to want their Presidents to be honest men and no con artists and criminals.

]]> By: ben http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109539 ben Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:03:36 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109539 Obama is going to be the POTUS. The problem is that he has not properly verified himself for the status of his birth which is required for a person that run for POTUS. The short form picture of his live BC that is sailing in internet from fightthesmears and alike s is not good enough because it does not contain the necessary information to determine one's birth. I bet that Obama could not even have used it to obtain his driver license. Add to this the fact that Hawaii issues documents like that even to people that are not born in US and someone will understand the concern. All you people that absolutely love messiah are going blind and do not see in front of you what is going on. Obama is going to be the POTUS.

The problem is that he has not properly verified himself for the status of his birth which is required for a person that run for POTUS.

The short form picture of his live BC that is sailing in internet from fightthesmears and alike s is not good enough because it does not contain the necessary information to determine one’s birth. I bet that Obama could not even have used it to obtain his driver license.

Add to this the fact that Hawaii issues documents like that even to people that are not born in US and someone will understand the concern.

All you people that absolutely love messiah
are going blind and do not see in front of you what is going on.

]]> By: ben http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109536 ben Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:45:35 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109536 Just curious, Warner Todd Huston, are we to believe that you are a self proclaimed conservator or a real conservator.What a joke. Give me a break.Everything can be done for you messiah? Just curious,
Warner Todd Huston, are we to believe that you are a self proclaimed conservator or a real conservator.What a joke.

Give me a break.Everything can be done for you messiah?

]]> By: Mark Bureau http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109510 Mark Bureau Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:53:47 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109510 I realize that the people govern. And you made a strong case to let it go, but this is not a democracy, and the people have never elected a President. It matters not that 66 million voted for Barack Obama. If he is not eligible, and portrayed himself to be eligible, he perpetrated a fraud on the people. 90% of this country didn't want the United States Congress to give 850 million dollars and unfettered power to the Secretary of the Treasury, and Thomas Jefferson is likely rolling over in his grave about that. It matters not that 52% of the people voted someone that is ineligible for the office into that office, if it turns out that he is ineligible. Very eloquent words, but respectfully, I must disagree. markbureau I realize that the people govern. And you made a strong case to let it go, but this is not a democracy, and the people have never elected a President.

It matters not that 66 million voted for Barack Obama. If he is not eligible, and portrayed himself to be eligible, he perpetrated a fraud on the people.

90% of this country didn’t want the United States Congress to give 850 million dollars and unfettered power to the Secretary of the Treasury, and Thomas Jefferson is likely rolling over in his grave about that.

It matters not that 52% of the people voted someone that is ineligible for the office into that office, if it turns out that he is ineligible.

Very eloquent words, but respectfully, I must disagree.

markbureau

]]> By: Edda R. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/12/09/thomas-jefferson-says-forget-about-baracks-birth-certificate/comment-page-1/#comment-109504 Edda R. Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:19:33 +0000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=17977#comment-109504 I'm confused. Are we trying to prove that he was born in Kenya? The word of a dead grandmother who is not available for cross-examination simply isn't enough! We're going to need hospital documentation as well as flight manifestos and such. Remember at that time it would be unusual for anyone other than medical personnel to be present in the birthing room. A white girl would be reason for all sorts of notations in records. The answer is staring everybody in the face and is quite obvious once the tangential improbabilities are removed. There is a difference between a certificate of live birth and a birth certificate BUT anyone requesting a birth certificate nowadays is likely to receive a computer generated copy. It's what I got recently, but also have a copy of the official "vault" copy from when I was born in 1946. However, I do not recall PROOF of one's birth place being part of the application process for POTUS.... I’m confused.

Are we trying to prove that he was born in Kenya?

The word of a dead grandmother who is not available for cross-examination simply isn’t enough!

We’re going to need hospital documentation as well as flight manifestos and such.

Remember at that time it would be unusual for anyone other than medical personnel to be present in the birthing room.

A white girl would be reason for all sorts of notations in records.

The answer is staring everybody in the face and is quite obvious once the tangential improbabilities are removed.

There is a difference between a certificate of live birth and a birth certificate BUT anyone requesting a birth certificate nowadays is likely to receive a
computer generated copy. It’s what I got recently, but also have a copy of the official “vault” copy from when I was born in 1946.

However, I do not recall PROOF of one’s birth place being part of the application process for POTUS….

]]>