(Audio) Obama the Marxist
Posted on October 26, 2008
Update II: For those in the comments saying only Republicans care about redistrubtion of wealth, and that the poor folks who will vote for Obama want it and we are only helping Obama by exposing him as a marxist….Americans Oppose Redistributing Wealth 84% To 13%!
Update: People in the comments are asking for the original source, skeptical of the editing on this clip. Listen to it for yourself, he said what he said…no creative editing or missing context. Here is the original.
For everyone that thought Obama was taken out of context, listen very closely. In a 2001 Chicago Public Radio Interview Obama is discussing the best way to bring about a Redistribution of Wealth.
If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court. I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I’d be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendancy to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.
I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. You know, the institution just isn’t structured that way.
In Obama’s America, we’ll finally be able to break free of the “constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution” — and in so doing, achieve “social justice” through “redistributive change.”
McCain should take these clips and run with them. If he highlights them the media will be forced to play them, and Obama will be pressured as well.
Update: Humorous, but scary and appropriately on topic. Will this be the new National Anthem?
Update: Obama camp responds:
“In this interview back in 2001, Obama was talking about the civil rights movement – and the kind of work that has to be done on the ground to make sure that everyone can live out the promise of equality,” Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton says. “Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with Obama’s economic plan or his plan to give the middle class a tax cut. It’s just another distraction from an increasingly desperate McCain campaign.”
Burton continues: “In the interview, Obama went into extensive detail to explain why the courts should not get into that business of ‘redistributing’ wealth. Obama’s point – and what he called a tragedy – was that legal victories in the Civil Rights led too many people to rely on the courts to change society for the better. That view is shared by conservative judges and legal scholars across the country.
“As Obama has said before and written about, he believes that change comes from the bottom up – not from the corridors of Washington,” Burton says. “He worked in struggling communities to improve the economic situation of people on the South Side of Chicago, who lost their jobs when the steel plants closed. And he’s worked as a legislator to provide tax relief and health care to middle-class families. And so Obama’s point was simply that if we want to improve economic conditions for people in this country, we should do so by bringing people together at the community level and getting everyone involved in our democratic process.”
I’d say that the first hint that the initial analysis was correct was in Obama’s estimation of the Warren Court — one of the most activist in history — as somehow not radical in its nature. Second, in the quote itself, Obama calls the failure to “bring about redistributive change” a tragedy. That doesn’t sound like someone who hails the court’s limitation on redistributionism — or, to use Obama’s analogy, liked the fact that the court allowed him to eat at the lunch counter but didn’t pick up the tab for him as well.
The point about the courts is really secondary. In this passage, Obama identifies himself as a redistributionist, even if he’s saying that the courts are not going to be a successful venue for it. Despite Burton’s little bit of misdirection, it’s very clear that Obama is highly sympathetic to “redistributive change” — and with an Obama administration coupled with a Democratic majority in both chambers of Congress, the courts won’t be necessary to effect that redistributive change anyway.
Update: McCain camp gives response to the audio:
“The American people continue to learn more about Barack Obama. Now we know that the slogans ‘change you can believe in’ and ‘change we need’ are code words for Barack Obama’s ultimate goal: ‘redistributive change.’ In a previously uncovered interview from September 6, 2001, Barack Obama expressed his regret that the Supreme Court hadn’t been more ‘radical’ and described as a ‘tragedy’ the Court’s refusal to take up ‘the issues of redistribution of wealth.’ No wonder he wants to appoint judges that legislate from the bench – as insurance in case a unified Democratic government under his control fails to meet his basic goal: taking money away from people who work for it and giving it to people who Barack Obama believes deserve it. Europeans call it socialism, Americans call it welfare, and Barack Obama calls it change,” McCain senior policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said in a statement.
» Filed Under Communism, Domestic Enemies, Elections, Marxism, News, Socialism, Video
Trackback URL
Comments
292 Responses to “(Audio) Obama the Marxist”
Leave a Reply
Archive this video before it gets taken down! It must not be lost, but spread far and wide!
Email this to Rush, Hannity and any other who will play it. Also, make an audio copy of it in case it comes down.
Us Republicans are the only ones who care about this. All the lower class voters that McCain NEEDS to win would love to hear this because they benefit from it! Don’t you realize you’re helping Obama ? People that are lower/middle class that aren’t republicans LOVE to hear that he’s gonna take the rich peoples money! THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU SPREAD THIS KIND OF STUFF! NOTICE ONLY THE REPUBLICANS GET FIRED UP ABOUT IT AND THE DEMOCRATS OUT NUMBER US THIS ELECTION!
i would be more impressed if I could hear this tape in without editing. I feel certain that what Obama has said is taken out of context.
Marxism is a concept that is designed to spread the wealth until everyone is equal – except of course those in the ruling elite. . . Class elimination creates two classes – the haves, and the have nots
let obama fool you americans and you will find this great nation into trash…obama and his allies, ayers , wright, khalidi, mark davis…are communist.
Typical right-wing hit job. Take quotes out of context to create a misimpression. Hey wingnuts, it’s not going to work!
Yeah, the last thing we need is a redistribution of wealth on this country, where the income gap is reacing third world standards. Let Soros and Buffet keep their billions and let the rest of wages remain stagnant. Power to Oligarchy!!!!!!!!!!!
This is very scary stuff.
Every American should listen to this audio of Obama himself talking about his desire for “redistributive change”.
There is no doubt now what his intentions are. Give away money from those that earn it to those who don’t. We’ve been warned.
I encourage everyone to e-mail this audio clip to Drudge, FOXnews, and Rush (as I have).
I thought that the reason that the founding fathers wrote the
constitution in “negative terms” regarding the powers of government was that they had a basic distrust of the power that government had over individual freedoms. Freedoms which they discerned as God given, thus not rightfully taken by government. The broadening of governmental power is counter to this basic premise of the constitution. Governmental powers are not so much prescribed as circumscribed. What Obama is talking about this is the culmination of years of this kind of incrementalism which really is a fundamental breach of the Constitution.
The author of this video is a drama queen who has apparently creatively edited quotes with at least one past video.
I suggest not trusting this until an accurate source is provided.
Original source here: http://apps.wbez.org/blog/?p=372
That’s a start. Since I don’t have audio here, is the Youtube edited to make it worse than it is at WBEZ?
I have put the original in the update at the top of this post. There was no creative editing on this. Obama said what he said.
We must DEMAND MSM coverage. ENGAGE FLOOD MACHINES!
Somebody call a waahh-mbulance.
Acts of the Apostles
(New Revised Standard version)
4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common.
4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold.
4:35 They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.
Obama is the better choice
Published: October 26 2008 19:31 | Last updated: October 26 2008 19:31
FINANCIAL TIMES
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d0b127c-a380-11dd-942c-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
Steve – The Jerusalem Christians lived that way voluntarily. It was not forced upon them by the government, either political or ecclesiastical. Many other places in Scripture record inequities in the distribution of wealth that God in no way disapproves of – in fact, He is responsible for many of those inequities. And finally, Jesus: “The poor you have with you always.” It’s not our place as Christians or Americans to eliminate poverty by forcibly removing wealth from those who have earned it.
Send whatever you want. The fact remains that the only reason everyone is in an uproar is because you do not want a black man to be in-charge of this country. You forget the white america has the money but black america and other minorities built this country. Why doesn’t everybody tell the truth, you don’t want him because of race. Stop making excuses not to elect him for other reasons. If you would vote in a known alcoholic why can’t you vote in a black man.
It’s a miracle. I am so happy that this recording exists.
During the last 8 years there has been a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest 2%.
I am not sure that this kind of concentration of wealth is a great idea.
Is Obama’s idea any more than an attempt to get back to the wealth distribution during Clinton years?
mdross.
You are wrong. I don’t care what race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, or disability status a president is. But he MUST be oriented towards capitalism for me to vote for him.
And Obama’s comments (on the recording) about changing constitutions from listing things that the government can’t do to listing things that the government must do is … unspeakably beyond anything bad I can imagine could happen to our country.
Chad, 11:16p
You are SO wrong. Spread it loudly far and wide.
Steve – The Jerusalem Christians lived that way voluntarily. It was not forced upon them by the government
Irrelevant. There is no doubt that a truly Christian nation would be socialist.
Jeff,
then your lying to yourself. Did you vote for Bush both times? What has he done for this country? Did you believe everything he said. What is McCain saying he will do for this country?
. Many other places in Scripture record inequities in the distribution of wealth
In the Old Testament, every 7 and especially every 49 years, there was a mandatory redistribution of wealth.
Re Steve J
There is a VAST difference between voluntary giving which is a christian concept and forcible taking in order to redistribute which is NOT a christian concept.
Jesus was not about force.
Do you people have any concept of the violent corruption that’s happened when real, actual dictators or cult leaders have stepped up to lead nations? If you did, you would feel like morons for comparing this election to those events–or Obama to those leaders. Read a #^$*ing history book.
Then again, what else are you sour, sore-loser Republicans supposed to talk about when even your own party is supporting the once-rival candidate?
Nothing–so just hush already. Your earmongering doesn’t work in the coming post-Bush society.
P.S. Jeff, Steve has not advocated force, nor has Obama. That’s your fear talking.
Steve J
Reread Acts 4:35.
Did the apostles forcibly take the stuff or did the people freely give it?
And is the US government as trustworthy to distribute the money as the apostles were?
You have a VERY upside down view of what the text means for public policy.
Eliza A
What is a law if it is not backed up by force? Obama is talking about making laws and regulations to make this happen.
Wake up.
the same way we went into Iraq to force our views on them.
mdross.
Bush is not running for reelection.
This is a choice between Obama the socialist and McCain the guy in the middle of the road.
There is a VAST difference between voluntary giving which is a christian concept and forcible taking in order to redistribute which is NOT a christian concept.
In the Old Testament, every 7th year was a Sabbatical year and every 50th was a Jubilee year. For each, slaves were freed, debts were forgiven and property returned to its original owner. THIS WAS A MANDATE FROM GOD HIMSELF
Reread Acts 4:35.
Did the apostles forcibly take the stuff or did the people freely give it?
If you WERE a real Christian, you would support Socialism.
Jeff,
I voted for Obama, but I hope McCain gets elected so this country can get exactly what it deserves. You think that McCain is that different from Bush YOU are wrong.
Yet records show Obama has given very little of his wealth voluntarily. Obama wants to distribute other people’s wealth.
Steve (and others), How do you understand Paul’s words to the Thessalonians (2 Th 3:6-14) that people should “earn the bread they eat”? The “rule” Paul gave the Thess church was “If a man will not (that is, not to) work, he shall not eat (because he will not have earned it)” How is it “fair” to forcibly remove (by taxation which is an enFORCED method of money removal!) wealth from the workers and redistribute it to those who will not work? (Before you bring up those who cannot work, this does not apply to those who truly do need assistance (welfare in its correct sense).
Jeff,
Nice talking to you but I have to sign off. Hope you get what you want so you can be proved wrong. I want Obama to be elected but not at the expense of his life. So let McCain have it. Bye.
How is it “fair” to forcibly remove (by taxation which is an enFORCED method of money removal!) wealth from the workers and redistribute it to those who will not work?
It is neither fair nor Christian, but that’s a side issue. The real point is that Socialism is Christian.
Help the poor voluntarily? Absolutely! Tax the wealth away from the rich? Absolutely not. It removes the incentive to gain wealth to create jobs (rich people hire people, not poor people) or invest in businesses that do create jobs.
steve j 3:08
Yes, I know all about the 7 year and 50 year jubilee. No contracts between Israelites could exceed 7 years. There were no permanent sales of persons or real estate – there were only leases with a maximum term of 7 years. Chattels could be sold permanently. Israelites could enter into permanent contracts with foreigners.
It is an interesting concept and probably could work – but not in the united states.
It removes the incentive to gain wealth to create jobs
LMFAO!!! You probably also believe in the Great Pumpkin.
By the way, patriarchal society, monarchy (kings of OT), oligarchy (rabbinical society) and democracy (the Jerusalem church) among others are ALL forms of society acceptable to God. No type is singled out as necessarily “Christian.” Christians were even permitted to have slaves. How is it that you think Christians are somehow required to emulate socialism?”
Oh come on now. Redistribution of wealth, marxist? It’s only if they straight out take money from the rich to give to the poor. What do you think taxes are about? It’s redistribution of wealth. What about the minimum wage, or collective bargaining? Grow up.
what are you guys saying,obama is the worlds choice weather you like it or not!we will vote for him even with all this lies your speading about him we wont change our mind period……
“Oh, and while you are at it, here is another clip of Obama stating that the Constitution is a flawed document.”
The first Republican President felt that the Constitution was a flawed document, too. I am all for criticism, but you are starting to make us Republicans look ignorant.
It is the rich (well, at least some of them) that create jobs. What do wealthy people do with all their wealth after they have satisfied their cravings for material things? They invest it (oh yes! to make still more money) in businesses that are growing and employing workers. The government cannot do that; nor can the poor.
Steve J this country was founded on the ideal of attaining wealth and success through one’s own hard work and self sacrifice. Many of the Social Welfare programs we have today which are lauded by the far Left as being great boons to society are from the Great Depression. Programs which merely made the situation worse because it took wealth from those who had it and gave it to those who didn’t. It took WW2 to pull this country out of the Depression. We will return to a similar state should Obama be elected. He is calling for over 1 trillion dollars in new spending above and beyond what the current George W Bush budget calls for.
I don’t understand why the right wing doesn’t get it. All taxation is redistribution of wealth. It’s a necessary evil. The question, who is the money coming from, and who it is going to?
For the past 20 years, the flow has been from the middle class to the rich. Of course Americans don’t like redistribution of wealth. I’m a liberal, and I’m mad as hell about this. But the redistribution I’m mad about is the redistribution that Bush orchestrated, from my wallet to the wallets of the ultra-rich. I’ve been working my ass off for the last eight years, my expenses have gone up, and my income hasn’t. Meanwhile, the top 1% has been making a killing thanks to targeted Bush tax cuts that benefited only them.
The left isn’t calling for socialism or “redistribution.” We’ve already got that. Corporate welfare, redistribution upwards. We’re tired of it. What we want is a little fairness.
uploaded to rapidshare. Everyone spread this video!!!
http://rapidshare.com/files/157942236/2001_Obama_WBEZ_Interview_Redistribution_Wealth_Warren_Court.zip.html
Programs which merely made the situation worse
This is almost completely wrong. I think you can successfully argue that a few of the programs IN SOME CASE didn’t work out but onthe whole, the New Deal and it’s successors have been a tremendous boon to America.
He is calling for over 1 trillion dollars in new spending above and beyond what the current George W Bush budget calls for.
And among economists, that’s the consensus view of what’s needed now.
In all that has been written the biblical perspectives in this discussions are the most interesting..My input has to do with Nicodemus approaching Jesus on what He must do to attain eternal life in Heaven. He obeyed all the commands of God, but lacked the ability to help others. It sickens me to hear the wealthy need to continue to prosper so they can hire those in need of a job. There is absolutely no guarantee of this happening. It’s just something to justify your stand regarding your wealth. Scripture talks a lot about the rich, their ways and their future. No one should be forced to give up their wealth and I’m certain this won’t happen. Now, paying your fair share might come about. I would love to see all the loopholes closed that is exploited by the rich; a luxury the common man does not have. As downsizing occurs, it starts with the common worker, not the over paid exec. Get real!
It won’t matter who people deside to vote for this election cause the choices we have are equally less then suitable for what the USA needs. Greed and money run the goverment, it won’t matter who is the predident. When you elect a politician you elect someone who tells you what you want to hear and does what they want once in office. Our only hope that those two things happen to be the same.
Again I ask: How is it “fair” to take money from those who earn it and give it to those who choose not to work? BTW, taxation is not for the purpose of wealth redistribution. It is supposed to be the way the governement collects the funds to do things “for the common good.” Not to give it away to those will not work.
The left isn’t calling for socialism or “redistribution.” We’ve already got that. Corporate welfare, redistribution upwards. We’re tired of it. What we want is a little fairness and for the rich 1% to help USA by give there son and daughter to die for this great place then we will have redistribution and socialism.
I am a business man, that makes me a capitalist, but i dont mind seeing Obama as president and him steering this country in the right direction compared to what Bush did to it in the last 8 years, that really hurt businesses.
All i see in McCAin and Palin are the interests of cronies (and Todd). I will certainly cast my vote for OBAMA-BIDEN.
and by the way, we are thinking Republicans, so we dont easily buy this socialist-name-calling, race-baiting and hate-mongering. It destroys the foundation of this Great Party for some to do that. This is not what our party is all about. We should take back this party from the stupidity and arrogance that transformed it to a Bush Party. And McCain, you should retire now. Sarah, you and Todd’s influence peddling days are over. This time, i’ll vote democrat.
Those who will not work should reap the rewards from that. I don’t believe in that anymore than you do Lloyd. To pay an exec millions of dollars to drive a company into the ground, then lay-off hard working people that’s trying to ‘get by’ from paycheck to paycheck, is not anymore right than a lazy bum unwilling to work.
How did this get to be a link on yahoo’s home page? Is it in the interest of “balanced news”? This site has entries like “Obama, Ayers and the Weather Underground’s Plot to Overthrow Capitalism” which is pure hysteria and distortion.
On the other hand I have no problem voting for a socialist for president. How can we whole heartedly endorse the GOP and its various proven failures: WMDs in Iraq, New Orleans, Wall Street . . . clearly the GOP these days is exhibiting itself in harsh light
to you republicans.your game has been known and this time you lost it.the fear you instill has reached its dead end.you’ve got to know Americans have come of age to fall for your cheap gimmicks which are now flat-footed.Obama is the man and if don’t like it then move to Canada.all i read here is a certain bias towards the candidate who represents real change.just ask how many times has McCain exposed his economic ideals other than the old obama this,obama that.He just doesn’t get it!
I am an African-American and I find it a DISGRACE that there are African-Americans over 50 years old that were around during the civil rights movement and earlier who saw our ancestors risk and/or lose their lives for the right to vote and have NEVER registered to vote, BUT now want to make a “HISTORICAL” vote for someone based on skin color rather the issues.
I think tests need to be given about the political process and our government before anyone born in America can vote, just like we do for people who want to become U.S. Citizens. What if we didn’t have mandatory testing to get a Driver’s License? If you have to be competent to drive, then the same should apply for voting. The late night talk shows and 20/20 have proven how dumb American college students are about our government, etc. We are producing a generation of lazy educated superficial dummies.
Also, everyone needs to go to the library to READ and RESEARCH each candidate’s work records and stop letting the Media, opinion polls, Hollywood, Oprah (no offense) and You Tube decide your vote. Most are edited political propaganda for ratings and money.
MOST WHITE & AFRICAN-AMERICAN POLITICIANS NO MATTER THE PARTY WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET A VOTE, ESPECIALLY THE “BLACK VOTE” BECAUSE THEY KNOW MOST OF US DON’T READ ABOUT THE ISSUES OF WAR, FOREIGN POLITICS, ABORTION, HEALTHCARE AND THE ECONOMY UNTIL IT AFFECTS US. DON’T VOTE FOR A PARTY, VOTE ON THE ISSUES THAT WILL EFFECT FUTURE GENERATIONS OF ALL RACES, RELIGION AND GENDOR.
The majority of Americans support raising taxes on the rich. According to one poll [ http://www.pollingreport.com/budget.htm ], 63% of Americans think that the rich pay too little in taxes and 51% think that low-income people pay too much. The idea of redistribution is not some liberal agenda imposed on the American public. It comes from our instincts about fairness and our fundamental community values.
The poll you posted is flawed in the sense that their asking which would you prefer. 84% to 13%—prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.
I’d be on the 83% side in that poll, but I’m not against redistributing wealth. At this time I’d prefer they’d focus on economics and jobs.
Obama plans to do both so this point is moot.
You can interpret a poll any way you like until its a direct question: Do you agree with wealth redistribution, ex; Take from the rich a give to the middle/lower working class. YES/NO . Once you do that poll then you can tell me what the American people think.
If you have a poor people in Ohio who are worried about getting laid off, I guarantee more than half won’t mind taking a check from the Gov’t to keep their head above water. That’s who Obama is talking to and that’s who will vote for him in this down economy.
I am a Republican, but I voted Obama because there are more important issues than this for me. Also, after the choice of Sarah Palin I was totally turned off and I continue to be turned off with every rally and interview I see.
This election is bigger than my party this year.
Bed time. Good luck guys.
Btw, I think this audio is pandering because you already have him on video saying he wants to “spread the wealth” which is far worse than an audio from 2001. People understand spread the wealth a lot better than all the big words he uses here
Honestly, I wish we could drop the left/right, Dem./Rep. and (we)Americans dedicate ourselves to doing rightful things. We are our own worst enemies most of the time. We want to argue points of politics but everyone should know the sad shape we’re in. To move forward we must understand how we got here. My opinion is greed and lust for power. Every good thing has been exploited by a few with selfish intentions. There is more corruption now than ever before. I don’t buy into McCain’s or Palin’s stand on understanding the common man’s needs and sufferings. The average ethical hard working American is dying out here in the real world. Can Obama change that? I believe he’ll try, but I don’t know if anyone can straighten out the mess we’re in right now. Most Americans just want a hope of tommorrow being better. To defend the wealthy and say they make America strong is a croc. They are the ones that has put us where we’re at right now! May they perish with their money, greed, and exploitation of this great Country!
Why I Love Taxes:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/10/24-2
Using this video to accuse Obama of being a “Marxist” is silly. “Spreading around wealth” is not the equivalent of Marxism. As usual, the right tries to play on fear. That is their main weapon. And unfortunately, there are a fair number of people who believe them.
My candidate is the one who defends the middle-class and below from the greedy rich. I will never trust a politician 100%, but anybody who at this point thinks the party of George W. Bush has done anything but rob from and destroy this country is truly ignorant, and if on top of that you want to vote for 4 more years of oppression of the poor at home and abroad, and destruction of the environment in the name of God. then God help you.
For the last eight years, 5 percent of the wealthiest people in the country have gotten tax breaks. Obama just wants them to pay taxes like the rest of us do!! What is wrong with that?
Why is it socialism to give tax breaks to 95 percent of those of us who work for a living, but OK to give tax breaks to the wealthiest 5 percent…who by the way..own 60 percent of the country’s wealth?
You can make as much money as you like, but you’re ALSO going to have to pay taxes! I think that’s more than fair.
I hope everyone takes time to listen to the whole interview. This was an intellectual discussion, where the guests muse on some topics and should not be taken as platform or policy. I will assert that even without much editing, this is still an out-of-context statement, because it highlights a series of statements in a deep discussion of some issues. It intensifies the doubts people have on Obama and does not necessarily refute misconceptions of him, but reinforces it. Besides, this was years ago, 3 years before he galvanized his political positions into a book and arguably he is more centrist now than liberal.
Here’s the truth about your beloved economic system:
It’s CRAPitalism!
(by hobodave)
It bails out the thieving banks and billionaires of Wall Street
while it sucks the blood out of the rest of us
Out of the mouths of transnational corporate heads and their lackey politicians
it spews lies, lies, lies
First about the “noble cause” of sending our youth to die for its oil profits in Iraq
now about the need to “tighten our belts” to save its decrepit loan-shark structure
Where the rich get richer – more and more
but funding just can’t be found for housing or healthcare
It always has money for another war
but it can’t feed its own veterans or the poor
It is driven not by human need but by insatiable greed
and its insane drive to rule over every square inch of our planet
When they named it – they left out the “R”
It’s CRAPitalism – and it stinks to high heaven
Let’s throw it in the garbage where it belongs!
Well, the government indoctrination centers, oops, I mean the public schools, have done their job. The public has been dumbed down enough for the Obamas and McCains to put forth this garbage and they don’t understand that the divinely inspired Constitution was designed to stop just this sort of nonsense.
Adieu to the Republic and liberty!
I hope John McCain brings this up, cuz all Obama has to say is, “look what John wants to talk about, a radio interview I gave in 2001. John dwells on the past and can’t look forward into the future of our country. He makes fun of me for talking about Bush, then brings this up? Come on John, you can do better for your country.” I can hear it now.
It’s so funny to watch fox and friends right now. 3 Obama haters talking crap, I don’t understand how that’s balanced news…
Slime, slime, slime.
With unprecedented SOCIALIST measures George W. Bush bails out the super rich wall street crooks with trillions of dollars and then you hypocrites complain about Obama’s assumed “redistributing wealth”, taking quotes out of context (how typical) and being a total conspiracy nutjob.
You people don’t love America. You hate it and would support any war and white collar criminal, to achieve that.
Alright y’all, I think it just may be time to calm down a bit. Not that I don’t love seeing my feelow Americans actually getting interested in politics, but we’re going too far here. After this election, there will be no major disaster, regardless of who wins it. The president is one man, but the machinery of government is vast, and there are built-in ways of making sure nothing drastic happens. Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy, what’s the news? We’ve had a progressive income tax system for a long time. Initially, the income tax was flat, but Americans rejected it as unfair. Therefore, if you truly believe that Obama is a socialist, then America is already a socialist country. Look, the wealthy will pay their extra 50k, not really mind, and continue doing exactly the things they’re doing now. At the same time though, their combined money will assist the government in initiating infrastructure projects that will give jobs to millions, shelters where the beaten down can fill their stomachs and perhaps even get training to improve their situation, and better education so that your children may have a chance to be lucky enough to one day pay those higher taxes. This is not a huge departure from the norm, this is an adjustment. Please everyone, let’s stop the gloom and doom stuff. If you really believe that McCain’s plan is better than Obama’s, tell us why. But remember this is about the good of our country, not about creating fear and mistrust. COME TOGETHER!
Oh, you guys are soooo right! stop redistributing wealth! Stop Obama! And, oh, by the way, let’s not stop there. Everyone send BACK those checks Bush sent you. You, know, the ones that the TAXPAYERS paid for? Send them back! No more Medicare! No more Social Security! Small Business loans at low rates from the government! Welfare! unemployment! All subsidies and tax breaks for businesses!
I sure am glad we have you folks on our side, caring so much about wealth being redistributed. I can’t wait until we become China, and have 1% of the population control 98% of the wealth, while the rest of us starve.
Some of you will find ANY excuse NOT to vote for Obama.
“Redistribution” has certainly worked well in Rhodesia, excuse me, Zimbawe. That country went from being the breadbasket of southern Africa to being one of the most corrupt, brutal, and bankrupt regimes on earth. Mugabe is now begging the white farmers to come back and run their farms because his “collective” didn’t work. Now there’s a real surprise. Has anyone noticed the failed “experiment” that was the Soviet Union? Cuba? I challege anyone to name a single successful country where the type of “redistribution” has worked. Life isn’t fair, there are winners and losers and no amount of “fairness” legislation can change it. Our only slim hope is if this clown is elected, he won’t have filibuster-proof Senate to restrain him. Otherwise, bury your cash in your yard and hide your weapons ’cause the “fairness” boys will be coming to steal from you!
Holy smokes. Blatant. Brazen. And yet nobody seems to care?!!? Obama has said himself that he favors ‘redistribution’ ie socialism. Never mind the fact that socialism doesn’t work and never has. At its worst, you get guys like Stalin and Mao running things. What’s 30 million corpses if it’s for a good cause? At it’s very best you get Europe, a place with the same wealth as us but 60% more population, making it significantly poorer. Ever been to Europe and been appalled at spending 5 euros for a lousy bowl of soup? Or the fact that none of the working class in italy can afford a house? Still, it’s ok, right? So what if we engage in institutionalized theft. As long as your pocket gets heavier and you can morally justify it, you don’t care one whit about the consequences. And yes, I am planning to emigrate. This means my business which employs 26 Americans will go under, putting them out of a job, but hey. It’s for a good cause, right?
OK if you guys listened to the whole thing (”January 18, 2001″ in http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/audio_library/od_rajan01.asp), Obama was only affirming what Dennis Hutchinson said just before Obama, and is actually COUNTER to the arguments that people here want to hear: that it is impossible to assume that the court (constitution) can confer social justice to all people.
The quote is dangerous because, although unedited, it is VERY suggestive. The first emphasized part above (”[T]he Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth”) is just him reaffirming the previous speaker, not him expressing dissatisfaction.
In fact, what Obama laments is NOT the lack of the ability of the court to do more for the less fortunate, but the lack of ACTION on the ground (”political and community organizing and activities on the ground”) to bring about such change.
The key phrase is “ON THE GROUND” — people helping other people, or even the less fortunate owning up to their own responsibility.
Everyone should listen to the whole thing first, because people imagine a context to view these statements, and it is misleading and thoroughly malicious.
It’s amazing to me how quickly the blind jump to Mr. Obama’s defense. The beautiful thing about our Great Country is that we can all express our opinions…we can all be heard. Having said that, I’m tired of being called a racist because of my lack of support, lack of trust, lack of belief in Obama as President of our Country. This presentation was well-prepared and I share its sentiments. As citizens, we all have the right to know who our candidates are as well as where they come from. Has anyone actually seen Mr. Obama’s birth certificate? I haven’t seen it nor heard that its existance had been confirmed as of yet. This is serious issue as his campaign has done nothing (to my knowledge) to address this issue. You MUST be born a citizen of the USA to be a presidential candidate. WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA deserve to know the facts, and it would be a shame if we discovered that after all the campaigning WE THE PEOPLE failed to uphold (or insist it be upheld) the specific qualifications required to become President simply because we would rather exercise our own personal agenda. IT’S TIME TO TAKE A LOOK AT OURSELVES AND ASK “ARE WE WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO INSURE THAT THE LAW OF OUR GREAT LAND REMAINS UNCOMPROMISED.”
“WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IN ORDER TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION ESTABLISH JUSTICE INSURE DOMESTIC TRNQUILITY, PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE AND SECURE THE BLESSINGS OF LIBERTY TO OURSELVES AND OUR POSTERITY DO ORDAIN AND ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…”
Charles D:
Actually, I just *quoted* from his actual statements, so I don’t know how I can be “blind”. The problem with having preconceived notions about a subject is that you project your view on the interpretation (confirmation bias). I am prone to it; that’s why I made sure I quoted his actual statements.
Also, the problem with the right-wing crowd these days is when they see “Obama” and “redistribution” they pee their pants in joy. And then they accuse of the other crowd of being blind.
My point is that, people — including myself — do not like “redistribution” because it destroys the ethic of hard work, of personal responsibility. But the context is also important, and here Obama is calling for more responsibility on people because in his view they have depended too much on the court. The courts (i.e. the constitution) cannot do everything, and it is the lack of enterprise, of personal responsibility that he mentions is the failure of the civil rights movement. People depended too much on the (Warren) court because it gave them civil liberties, but Obama argues that people should not expect more.
if obama is elected, america will never recover.. you were warned. may God help us all
Does noone care that we ALREADY have a progressive tax? Does that mean that since 1862 we have had the same system as Soviet Russia? That Adam Smith, who first supported the idea of progressive tax in Wealth of Nations, was a Chinese communist? Here’s a website for you atlasshrugging: http://nontrivialpursuits.org/Tax_Policy.htm#taxation
A progressive tax does not mean socialism, it does mean redistribution of wealth (an established policy in this country), it does not mean that Chairman Mao will rise from the grave and govern this nation. In fact, according to Wikipedia, 81% of economists currently support a progressive tax. Why can you not see the damage you’re doing to all of us by making these claims and accusations? Please get the facts and let’s approach this as rational, adult voters.
It is amazing that this much effort would be made to sully a group of lawyers “defending” the American way of life whose work has been politicized and marginalized. This much effort(the amount endeavored on this website) being directed to your own local community(land donated for community garden e.g. gets tax breaks) would supercede the need for government and perhaps redistribution can be another word for sharing without governmental legislation. Too many poor people + not enough opportunities = political manipulation. This is only a great nation when we recognize and accept our differences as part of some greater whole. Besides how’s captialism doing at wiping out starvation and other preventable nutritive diseases? Just for giggle sake what if Ralph Reed were running on the Democratic ticket would a) the ACLU be so quick to be on his side and b) would anyone complain about a possible mandatory 10 percent tithe in lieu of a tax increase, in order to help do God’s work for those who are less fortunate?
I have read your comments and i have been amused and entertained and not soo enlightened, may i politley add that yall Reps and Dems have issues, issues which 7days wont sort. My advise to yall diehards..choose a representative that will take care of the future beginning 5th November 2008…it happens to be my daughters birthday she was born on Nov 5th 2000 to me its a new beginning regardless which way it goes!!!!
Oh yeah! Obama is a terrorist, Arab and a Muslim!
He wasn’t born in America, and wants to see all right-thinking Patriots DEAD!!
Wow.
Some of you right Wing Conservative supposedly CHRISTIAN people are just hate mongering idiots.
There is a term for you white supremist racist KKK sons of Satan.
IGNORANT.
Jesus would never hang with the likes of anyone who judges another human to a standard that is not their own.
Have fun in HELL, you believers of hate.
I’m a democrat, and am not voting for Obama. I was one of his early supporters, I donated money to his campaign, but his inconsistencies, his unwillingness to provide detailed answers to legitimate concerns. The fact that his campaign refuses to allow you to speak with a policy person so you can get answers (in my life, I’ve never encountered a candidate’s hq that refused to answer questions. His outright lies, and extremism.
Obama is on the take from lobbyists, he’s raking in money from hedge fund managers, big oil and all the corporate interests he claimed he had no connection to. When you consider his corrupt ties in Chicago, you realize that he sold out the poor, allowing the corrupt and the powerful to rip them off, in exchange for money and increased power, whether through Rezko and others, to Bill Ayers.
What kind of “activist” buys into taking 50 million dollars to improve schools, but isn’t spending it to hired teachers with math and science degrees, and better textbooks, etc… instead it’s used to teach Marxism to students. That was the actions of those who seek to exploit the poverty of students, so as to use them.
Marxism is slavery, Dr. Martin Luther King said so. Without the right to self determination, one is a slave. Obama would enlave everyone.
As Chad commented (near the top) The only people upset by this notion are rich republicans. Chad says the “lower class people” (I’m middle class so that includes me in Chad’s mind)are all supposed to be doing cartwheels over this notion of “redistribution”. Want to know how we REALLY see it? Let me explain–
We (*lower class folks*) have had to pay the highest taxes of anyone, 30-45% of our total earnings get taken from out paychecks each week, yet we can least afford it. We do not get all the mystery tax benefits the ultra-wealthy recieve, there is no financial voo-doo H&R Block can do for US to enable us to keep most of our earnings like the rich.
McCain likes to throw out negative buzz words like “giant welfare state”, as if anyone not in the super-rich club are all non-working bums waiting for checks to drop out of the sky as soon as the wealthy are taxed appropriately. WHAT NONSENSE. Get a grip and let go of your bigotry and stereotypes, most of us WORK FOR A LIVING!
Bottom line, “redistribution of wealth” simply means lower and middle-income people will get to keep a little more what they earn, and the ultra wealthy will have to pay a little more in taxes than they’ve previously had to. Why is this so unfair to all of you? Are you REALLY that selfish? Obama isn’t going to GIVE your money to ANYONE, any more than he did when it was OUR money. WE have had to pay the most for years now. Why SHOULDN’T the wealthy take their turn at it? The government and the war aren’t funded on air, the money has to come from somewhere, Most of it has been coming from us that can least afford to pay. Let the wealthy feel the pinch a little too!
I’m not sure I understand this fear of ‘redistributing the wealth’.
In the book of Acts, we have a pretty clear example of wealth being redistributed. “No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had” (Acts 4:32b). “For from time to time those who ownd lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need” (Acts 4:34b).
If the issue is that the State vs an individual is redistributing the wealth, then I must ask… why is it bad if the government chooses to act in accordance with the teachings of Christ?
If the issue is that those who receive it may not be deserving of it, does not our Lord also teach to, “give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back” (Luke 6:30).
People often see the Republican party as represening the Christian viewpoint. If you bear the name of Christ, and call yourself a Christian, then I would ask you to remain true to His teachings… even when they go counter to your political bent.
Another example of how the Dems are saying to you poor sheep-like libs and other dems…”You just sit there whil we are in power, shut up, and we will take care of you.” Got news for ya folks…the 60’s are gone, the Dems want a well-oiled machine, and there is nothing you can do about it. And its a machine you think may make the world love and skip around with us, but unfortunatly, they hate us because we are WESTERN…no more, no less. Good luck, and hope your imaginary “happy-days” are here again.
Jenny:
Why are you so afraid?? As Erik said above:
“The president is one man, but the machinery of government is vast, and there are built-in ways of making sure nothing drastic happens.”
Surely you don’t think all of Obama’s advisers, incl. Buffett, Rubin, etc, are secret commies? This is ridiculous. The idea that he will exact reparations is even MORE ridiculous. Again, as Erik said:
“[T]he machinery of government is vast, and there are built-in ways of making sure nothing drastic happens.”
Obama is an academic. Academics encounter a lot of ideas all the time. Talking about them doesn’t mean supporting them! You need to let the imagined fears go… Surely, if Obama was a secret commie, Powell, using his ties with the National Security Agency, etc, would know?
I am amazed at the level of illitracy being
displayed by some of these commentators.
Can America president single handedly change
the constitution of America? NO. Please stop this distractions and move to issues that will resonate with electorates. Some of you are still on employments hence, your
reason for engaging in distractions. Check
out those who are out of jobs with bills to
pay they have no time for your paymasters.
Right on KJ..
By the way, the images of Jesus being Auburn Haired and with Blue eyes is wrong.
There is a great possibility that he may have been black, or had the features and color of a present day Arab.
There is no way that Him and folks like Moses, Luke, Abraham or any of the Biblical authors would be considered “white” by the
racist Christian Moral Minorities.
Come on, folks! They were from Africa and the Mideast!
Dark and Brown or Olive skinned, they were not Caucasian in the European sense.
Realize that little fact and learn one of Christ’s biggest lessons of tolerance and Love for your fellow Human.
I imagine that Jesus’ message of peace and love is what got him Crucified, along with Ghandi and MLK in later times.
Be good to yourself and others, and I apologize for being harsh in my last post.
Oh, another item.
Abraham is considered the touchstone of both the Christian and Muslim faiths.
Is that news to some of you retards?
“It does not mean Chairman Mao will rise from the grave?” Are you kidding? Who thinks that? Oh…Dems…well, I’ll bet you Mao was a cute little fat baby when he was born, had some radical ideas as he grew older and tired of the so-called “status-quo” and became a tyrant. Hey..it’s happened before. ome fell, anyone can. Democrats seem to get thier historhy from “Sex in the city” and “Bill Mahr”. Anyway…I’m not saying this changes tomorrow, but keep on beleiving the hype about those “mean ol nasty republicans”, and next thing you know you get chaos in the streets over whats beleived to be the man bringing you down, and mind you , this is while Obama’s in office…just like the southern Democrats who shot all the blacks down south. Know your history.
Let see, taking the money from those who earned it. Does that include the big wigs who were bailed out with tax payer money and
lavished it on themselves? I think maybe you should look at the bigger picture. People are loosing their homes, yet these corporate executives are being silver spooned fed by our government at out expense. I say take away that silver spoon,
and feed the poor!!
To Charles D – As for this ridiculous claim that Sen. Obama is not a “natural born US citizen”, he was born in Hawaii, part of the United States. The only reason this has even come up was to divert attention from the fact that John McCain was NOT born in America, but was born in Panama. Apparently there were some questions as to whether HE was eligible to run for president because while he is a citizen, he is NOT a natural-born citizen. He is attempting to benefit from rulings that came long AFTER the fact, but were not in place during the time he was actually born. Because McCain knew there was controversy around this, the republicans started all this Obama isn’t a citizen NONSENSE. Typical diversion by projection, like everything else in McCain’s campaign. In fact, most of the things he accuses Sen. Obama of are things they HE (McCain) is actually doing. Please don’t get me started..I could write you a list…
I doubt its illitracy, its fear at its very best, everyone hates change regardless of the pros and cons, thats what americans are going through unfornunatley.. and like i posted before 7days just wont do for americans. I wish the elections was 7 months away.
Taxes have been the method of wealth redistribution unfortunately the rich get loop holes the middle class gets the brunt if we are to have a military and police fire education services there is a price. the problem is we have a corporate fascism state. what is good for Corporate America is not good for Americans read “Shock Doctrine” the blanket free trade that supposedly generates job growth needs limits we make less and less products in this country, unfair completion has put a more productive work force at a disadvantage. Profits for short term outlook for CEO pay plans instead of a long term outlook has left us in the situation we are IN WITH THE TOP 1% HAVING ALL THE WEALTH. Trickledown economics has failed to create good paying jobs this president has the worst record on jobs in 50 year s the economy was good for the rich the average worker has seen wages stagnate and immigrant workers do their jobs for less looking from the unemployment lines, while white collar and blue collar workers are taken advantage of . The Collapse of wall street is the straw that broke the GOP’s back. they were not the tax and spend they have been the spend and spend without a method of payment no new taxes while we expand our debt what a plan….
Just rmemeber yunz has guns writes
Why are you discussing these very many issues now, @#$ dont make me agree with some postings of some of you being illitrate retards. Jeez! Move on its 7days too late already.
The trouble with republicans is they lie and have stolen two elections the bush coo is over it is time for a change Mccain/Palin is not the answer. You who oppose Obama on incorrect facts, misleading facts, yet ignore mccains problems such as a unfaithful husband cindy is the other woman, association with radical groups early in his career and the bank debacle, and lets not forget he was up Bush’s but so far is bush took a left turn it would break his neck.. It doesn’t brother you Palin and her husband supported a succession est group Oh thats right if you are a republican your views are American and if you are a democrat you are unpatriotic.
Well, let me tell you one thing! If Obama gets in, and he will, as he, and his organizations are doing everything to steal it, God Help this country.
You won’t notice it until it happens, but after a while you will start losing some of your freedoms, and it will be so slow in happening, you won’t know it until it does. Life as we know it , will never be again. The truth is out there on Obama , and it doesn’t matter if you are white or Black. It matters who you are and what you have done to get there. Isnt it strange that Obama lives in a home that cost over a million +, but never held any job including his wife to ever make that much to afford it. Do your homework people. Get a clue. And I am not a rich person, and I am not even middle class anymore, as I don’t believe there is a middle class these days, I am struggling like everyone else, and I am telling you , Obamas way is a DANGEROUS way, and when he gets in, you will all be sorry and will know that you were duped!!!!!
I have heard you talk many times about how this Financial Crisis is not a sign of the free market not working and that it is the fault of the people who took out the loans “knowing” they could not pay them. I can not logically conclude that thousands of people bought a house knowing they were going to be losing it. I think many of the hosts on 97.1 have been missing the point that the reason these people can not pay their bills is due to the fact that the cost of everything has risen wages have been flat and job market has been bad. I feel that the problem here is a direct result of a combination of too large of a disparity in Wealth with 95% of the wealth owned by the wealthiest 5% and profit rates being too high. Looking at the Forbes 100 wealthiest people for the last few years it is easy to see that the value of this 100 person group has been increasing at an astonishing rate. From Forbes 100 list the total value of the to 100 in 2006, 2007, and 2008 respectively was $1148, $1443.5 and $1771.5 Billion Dollars. (The average person on this list has made 3 Billion Dollars a year over the last few years) Due to the fact that the role of a corporation is to “Increase Shareholder Wealth” and 95% of the corporation is owned by the wealthiest 5% the wealth every time the stock market has gone up the average Americans value has been decreasing over the last few years. Since the stock price is a representation of the expected future cash flows the stock price will only go up if the corporation looks like it will have found a way to exploit something better than it did yesterday. In essence it has found a way to get people to either 1) pay more for the same product they have offered, 2) pay the same for a product of less value, 3) get it workers to produce more with the same pay or 4) pay other employees less for the same level of production or some mixture of the four. So over the past while the “economy” has been good it has only been good in the ways that are measured such as the Dow or NASDAQ. The economy has been bad for the average working American we have been losing ground in wealth.
When a corporation sells a product it usually sells it for a profit. Parts of the profit are then given out as dividends. Since 95% of the value of these Corporations are owned by the very wealthy only 5 cents out of every dollar of profit is redistributed to the average working person. As a result the wealth accumulates at the top, wages and earnings for working individuals stagnate and soon the average person can no longer buy the things that they are working to produce. The system can not work if normal people stop buying. So the answer to this is credit.
We as a culture over the last few years have been encouraged to take out loans for everything. This has fended off the fact that average people are losing ground in the economy for a few years but now with the huge increases in gas that has caused huge increases in the cost of living the people now can not even make the payments on their huge backlogs of debt.
And so here we are… People bought those houses because they listened to the Media telling them about our strong economy. But when they got on increase in salary, lost their job, had to adjust to the huge price hikes they caved in. We have a major problem in this country and as much as you like to say that the Free Market is the ticket it can not work or at least should not work in a moral sense with the current conditions. If the playing field was a little more even the Free Market would be great but as it stands we have to have some controls or we (me and you too Crain) will be a slave class.
We as a people completely fooled by wall street into thinking that huge profits are great for the society. They are not. They in fact make life harder for the nation as a whole. We are told that people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people who should be highly regarded they are not. Any one who can let 50 Billion dollars set their bank while people are starving, homeless, and jobless is not a good person. If people like them had not hoarded and exploited others they would not have the fortunes they have. They are a pure picture of greed, corruption and what is wrong with America. In a sane world they would be ridiculed and condemned for all the pain, struggle and hardships the cause people so that they can add a few billion onto there Net Worth. I would consider them among the most repulsive scum of the earth. I sincerely hope that you at least give this a moments thought.
For America to embrace what is clearly failing in Europe would madness! Wake up! You’re not Socialists!
Well done and such a good laugh.
I think Obama is intelligent enough to see the funny side of this and will respect your artistic license. Won’t change the vote though.
No you’re wrong; Republicans don’t have the right to power.
Also Americans are Asian, Indian, black, white, Latino, Christian, Moslem, Buddhist etc etc not just whites in rural America.
Time to thaw out the Duke. And I think he’s gonna be really really pissed off!
Democracy died years ago people! Maybe it is time for something new. And before you question my patriotism, I come from a long line of American soldiers, and I support our military in ALL aspects, after all, it’s not their fault where they are sent and made to do. The rich and powerful have stolen our government, our freedom, and our liberty. And the worst part is, we didn’t even put up a fight. When our forefathers fought for independece, this is not what they had in mind. I bet old George Washington is spinning in his grave right now over the mockery of their vision of freedom.
Please remember, REAL AMERICANS START REVOLUTIONS!!
Hey, Bible readers, read Revelations, about the antichrist. It may make you open your eyes.
I want to open my eyes, what does the Holy Book say.
This is such a red herring issue. We HAVE been undergoing a redistribution of wealth for the last seven years. Only problem is that it has been tax breaks and subsidies for corporations and the super wealthy. Are Americans this dumbed down not to see the increase poverty rates, unemployment and loss of wages among middle class Americans while there has been an expansion of millionaires in the USA as REFLECTIVE of this redistribution? Come ON – this is the ONLY program that has succeeded in the Bush Administration – the No Millionaire Left Behind Program
I’m a social libertarian. I can’t believe anyone would be dumb enough to have have an anti-civil rights web site like this! Don’t you idiots get it? The ACLU protects the law of our constitution! Just keep going down that road with Bush/Rove and you’ll have the fascist state that you all seem to be so happy with. Look at the facts: Bush took away *many* states rights starting with FEDERAL voting laws, even programs like “No Child Left Behind” came with huge financial penalties if the schools didn’t follow the program – and how about the REAL-ID act that forces states to put all YOUR bio-metric data on an RFID chip that can be tracked EVERYWHERE YOU GO. How about the national database used to profile every man, woman, and child in this country? You people are just STUPID! You should be very afraid of the powers you’ve bestowed on this administration (and by the way given to all future administrations as precedent has been set). Let’s just hope that the next White House occupant doesn’t abuse the power like your precious “W”. Boneheads………
What the heck Americans know about Marxism?
Do they ever heard about
Carl Marx
Lennin
Leon Trotsky etc etc.
95% Americans do not even know about these peoiple and when the electon is near
,they know everything about Socialism,Marxism,Leninism.Give me a break?
When a black man is running for president
white machine say he is socialist????
White folks got to know little bit more about socialism.Tell it to MacSain and the beauty queen who has 9 houses and 13 cars.
Waht you call that facism…..
.
What you fail to mention is that this country already has a progressive tax system in place that taxes more as you make more. The problem is that through the years the special interests and the rich have been able to pass tax cuts and credits to afford them to keep more of their money while the middle class pays a more disproportionate share of the tax burden. If you think Obama is a Marxist, just wait until McBush gets into office. The tax cuts for the rich will continue while the middle class of this country continues to shrink and disappear. The US will become a 3RD World country with a few very rich, many poor, and NO middle class. Keep listening to that GOP propaganda and see how far it gets you.
Redistribution of the wealth? Both candidates have health care plans that cost money. Obama’s $1.6 trillion dollars and Mccain’s $1.3 trillion dollars. BOTH are inconceivable amounts of money from my stand point. That’s how it works. Instead of making ridiculous claims that democrats want to turn the country in a communist nation (an impossible task you realize, checks and balances my friend) or that they want to take away guns(not true), maybe you should take some time and assess who’s plans seem more viable. We are going to have some sort of health care plan (unless you would like to revert to a third world country). You have access to the internet so I am confident you can find the information. I’ll start you off with one more interesting fact though. Obama’s $1.6 trillion dollar covers about 50% more of the population and Mccain’s $1.3 trillion dollar plan cover 5% more of the population. As someone who cannot afford health care uninsured I think I will vote for the former.
Lynn – You are like so many other Obama-haters. You love to paint him as the boogie-man, but you never give ANY specific reasons why. None of you ever can say anything specific the man has done wrong, you just want people to buy into your “vague mistrust” of him. Not good enough. This has been the entire basis of McCain’s campaign, not running on his own platform, (he can’t talk about that, it’s too identical to his buddy Georg Bush’s), so instead he spends all his time implying you shouldn’t “trust” Obama. He never says SPECIFICALLY WHY you shouldn’t, or haven’t you noticed that? Like this stupid Ayers thing…McCain keeps saying Obama should “answer the question about his relationship to Ayers”…the thing is…
He HAS!!!…over and over and OVER. The problems is, McCain just doesn’t LIKE the answer. The truth hasn’t proven to be very interesting or incriminating.
Think about it. Don’t you think if there was ANYTHING ELSE TO THAT STORY, if McCain knew ANYTHING wrong Obama had done, he’d tell it? OF COURSE HE WOULD, IN A HEARTBEAT. That’s the problem, there IS nothing more to the story so all McCain can do is keep repeating “Sen. Obama should answer the question” and hope that people LIKE YOU will keep ignoring the fact that HE HAS ANSWERED.
As for you complaining about the value of the Obama family’s ONE house, (HOW many do the McCain’s own..7, 9? they lost count) why don’t you first ask the McCain’s why they will not release their tax records, or why McCain won’t release his medical records. At 72 with a loony, witch-hunting recessionist for a VP running mate, he should REALLY let us know if he’s going to die once he gets in office!
It seems nobody, especially people voting for McCain, understands the true reasons for socalled “socialist” type programs. Apparently most of you have been brainwashed to the point where you think taxes are BAD, hence our third world infrastructure, lack of health care available to most citizens, lack of schooling without spending everything you have and still being in debt, etc…the list goes on. People on this board tout Capitalism as if it brings about some sort of Utopia. Have you not realized that we are truly Capitalism run amuck? Take a look around you, for god sake. We’re the epitome of what not to do when you embrace capitalism…we just took it to the point where it will take years to catch up with the rest of the developed world and it’s mind boggling that nobody recognizes it as such! I lived in Thailand for three years and came back about 6 months ago and was appalled when realizing how much harder it is to get things accomplished here, such as getting health insurance when you find a job, buying birth control pills, not over the counter but through a doctor who then sends you to a pharmacy where they make you pay 80 dollars per month! It costs 15 dollars in Thailand and 10 Euros in Europe! The pharmaceutical companies run our lives and we’ve just become so complacent as a society that we let them !@#$ us in the rear without standing up and doing anything about it…what happened to good old fashioned protests? I’ll tell you what happened, we have slowly been brainwashed as if we’re automatons in a giant cult and slowly but surely we’re losing all power we once had. WAKE UP!!! WAKE UP AMERICA, before it’s too late! Those we’re a couple of small examples of the problems here and I have many which I don’t want to trouble you all with but which I’m sure you recognize, and if you don’t, i suggest you go live abroad for a while and view this place from the outside…it does wonders on your senses, even if it’s a bit painful at times. You mey think there has to be a better choice than Obama, but McCain is definitely not it, so at this point we take a step in the right direction with Obama and hope for future leaders to arise from independent territory to create a new party which will bring this great nation back to and beyond what it once was.
Happy birthday to your Daughter Heather. The chosen will take care of the future next year when they are sworn in and not on November 5th. I would not expect too much change too fast. Generally there will be much legislation passed the first 100 days and details of major policies announced but most Americans will not be impacted by this until years later. I am hoping that some reasonable timeline for Iraq troop reductions is announced and a major energy independence policy is presented. There may be movement on health care reform but I am not too optimistic.
The next President and Congress has been handed a severly wounded enonomy and I would expect healing measures and not boot camp.
True, but so are the images of Jesus as being black, Asian, or anything other than middle eastern/Semitic. We all tend to remake Jesus in our own image, but that is not by any means limited to “racist” whites.
Yes, he will, given the chance. In his own words, he intends to give a “tax cut” to “95%” of workers. However, about 40% of workers pay no federal income tax. It is thus impossible to cut their taxes, as the term “cut” is normally understood. The only way to give them a “cut” below a zero tax rate is to tax them at an effectively negative rate, which would require the government give them money that has taken from someone else.
This is really nothing new. For decades, those of us who do pay taxes, because we have WORKED to earn our taxable incomes have had our money given to welfare mothers, who until the 1996 reforms did not have to work.
If the issue is that the State vs an individual is redistributing the wealth, then I must ask… why is it bad if the government chooses to act in accordance with the teachings of Christ?
Terry Richard – “Come ON – this is the ONLY program that has succeeded in the Bush Administration – the No Millionaire Left Behind Program”
Wonderful! Your points were excellent!
“Marxism is a concept that is designed to spread the wealth until everyone is equal – except of course those in the ruling elite. . . Class elimination creates two classes – the haves, and the have nots”
Spread the wealth is a slap in the face for those who break our back to have the fortunes that we have earned. If you want money earn it, stop waiting for it to land on your lap.
I’m am not a Democrat or a Republican, I am someone that loves this country, and came here to live the American dream.
Wake up Americans, your country is about to go to hell. The rich and powerful will always be rich and powerful, the poor and broke will stay poor and broke.
Spread the wealth, what a joke!!!
I still don’t understand what is wrong with spreading the wealth around.
“The only way to give them a “cut” below a zero tax rate is to tax them at an effectively negative rate, which would require the government give them money that has taken from someone else.”
If they haven’t “WORKED” to pay taxes… what the HELL makes you think they deserve a “Tax Break”??!?!?
This country would be so much better off with a national sales tax…
At least all the people who feel they need another yacht or another multi-million dollar ocean-front condo would be paying the taxes…
The so called “poor” would have nothing to bitch about then… they aren’t buying anything.. so they’re not paying any taxes..
Wake up Republicans! It incredulous how all you brainwashed idiots can’t see that it is the Republicans and their policies that have already re-distributed the wealth in this country. It has all gone to the rich Look at our economy now!!! What has the republican party ever done for the middle class??? Nothing!!! Who is McCain looking out for? The middle class? Nope. He is giving Exxon Millions of dollars in tax breaks and has never justified why they deserve such a package. You fall for the fear mongering propaganda that Obama is a socialist, marxist etc. What’s next? Calling him a baby killer? It is obvious you all get your news from Fox Hannity and the other idiot Rush Limbaugh.
spreading the wealth to the middle average working class you fools and it happened before in the era of bill clinton presidency.
I love to hear you fools cry about Obama. I can’t wait to he make you look like the racist fools you are.
Obama is only talking about repealing the Bush tax cuts that he gave to wealthier Americans. Calling Obama a Marxist is a little bit despearate and exteme.
I have to say that Karl Marx is one of my great grandfathers and you guys don’t have a clue what marxism is and Obama is not and never will be a marxist… grow up, stop mud slinging, if you want to change some things in the world great but first we have to start right here at home and clean up our world, feed our children, make sure our people in our country are warm, fed, protected then lets play police to the world.
as far as a redistribution of wealth, well bush took care of that for us, this man should have never been president in any shape form or fashion. My opinion is that we need to throw away the electorial college which is useless and use what the country wants popular vote. I bet if you look at the #’s except for the “fixed” states of florida which made the voting process illegitimate at that time, but hey home cooking jeb, gotta take care of your brother. I am ready for some politicians that are ready to work for their country and not for what the lobbiest are going to put in their pockets and pork belly spending, get real or get unelected!
FIRST I LIKE TO STATE I AM NOT A REBUBLICAN AND I VOTED FOR OBAMA IN THE PRIMARIES.I AM FAR FROM BEING WELL OFF BUT IT SCARES ME THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TAKE MORE MONEY FROM PEOPLE WHO WORKED HARD FOR THER MONEY AND GIVE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DON’T WANT TO WORK. I SAY THIS COUNTRY SHOULD TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE WHO CAN’T WORK BECAUSE DISAILITIES OR OTHER PROBLEMS.
I don’t agree with distribution of wealth. For one it smacks of welfare, and I recall being a teller at a bank and these no working people, who were fully able to work, would come in to cash 3 welfare cks, they’d have their nails done, their hair done, their leather coats on, their gold on, and then I’d look down at the child with them and their nose were snotty, their clothes didn’t fit and their shoes were worn down. I don’t think it fair to ask those that work hard to ” EARN” what they make to pay for someone who doesn’t pay taxes or wants to work to have a good life at their expense!! It’s unbelieveable that some people actually think this is okay. Say what you want but Obama is touting welfare big time!! Secondly true Christians need to go to the Family Research Center website to gain info on EACH candidate and how they voted on important issues like embryonic stemcell resrch. This research was unbiased and gives you the info and shows where you can find the infor for yourself to fact check. Third, this future President will be nominating in a few supreme court judges do we really want to have liberals at the helm of important mandates. Wake up people and get fully inform…Maria trenton Nj
Why is it that nobody in the media of any type has followed up on the association of Obama and his cousin in Kenya, ODINGA who is a communist and if you listen to his speeches they are identical to the ones spouted by Obama, in fact Obama went to Kenya to support and speak to the supporters of Odinga. Listen up America, do you really want a BLACK man who is a communist as your next president, I didn’t like Hillary Clinton either but at least she isn’t a communist
I LIKE TO SAY BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT WE EVER HAD.
Someone send a message to the fringes: comrade Bush, et al. have already socialized risk with the bailout. That being the case, isn’t it only appropriate that profits come under a little scrutiny?
Yes has Obama made references to redistribution of wealth several times in his political career. Obama is a Marxist (i.e., communist) and anyone who votes for him and wants that better reconsider and research those countries who are or have lived under socialism/communism. They will find that those countries have a very poor quality of life and rampad poverty as well as unemployment.
Ok I really didn’t take time to read all the replies, but if you are so Christian how can you vote for a Man that thinks it is ok to kill babies not just before they are born but also voted against babies born alive after an abortion to not receive medical treatment they were to be left to just die. God calls all life a blessing and says we are fearfully and wonderfully made. He also says that He knew us before We were formed in our Mother’s womb.So if you are a Christian you must believe that God creates life so who are we to take it away. Our government will never fix this country let me leave with this verse for all you Christians out there 2Chronicles 7:14
“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
The Right keeps trying to say that Obama is touting welfare when all he is offering is a middle class tax cut. The same tax cuts that the rich have been getting for the past 7 years!! (oh but thats not redistribution of wealth??)… No one who doesn’t work will get any tax cuts because they don’t get taxed anyway… U guys twist one thing and then twist it again… and keep twisting til finally u find something that just might cause folks to not trust Obama… Not going to work this time. Your ideas are old and lame.
Bigfoot – Once again, you people spewing the McCain talking points MISS THE POINT ENTIRELY.
You said: “This is really nothing new. For decades, those of us who do pay taxes, because we have WORKED to earn our taxable incomes have had our money given to welfare mothers, who until the 1996 reforms did not have to work.”
What do welfare mothers have to do with tax breaks for WORKING PEOPLE? Two completely different things.
Let me try to get this through the McCain induced haze in your brain. “welfare mothers” don’t get tax credits or tax breaks because they ARE NOT WORKING! Obama is talking about giving tax relief to WORKING PEOPLE that make less that $250,000/year. Let me say that again so you can really get it through your head…WORKING PEOPLE! Not 95% of ALL Americans, but 95% of WORKING AMERICANS….95% of working people make less than $250,000 a year.
How you claim that anyone in America that works pays no taxes is beyond me. This is some verbal voo-doo McCain is pulling, trying to confuse working Americans with people on welfare, retired, etc.
Where do you get this idea that 40% of working americans don’t pay taxes? Look on their pay stubs, you’ll see money coming out every week, probably around a third of their earnings in TAXES. SHOW ME ONE american workers’ paystub where NO TAXES AT ALL are taken out! YOU CAN’T.
While there may be 40% of Americans (total) that don’t pay taxes because they do not work, are retired, are on umemployment or disabled, these tax breaks have NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT 40% BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WORK!
McCain has tried to mix up in the minds of voters people on welfare with low and middle income workers. They ARE NOT the same thing. Can’t you grasp that whether democrats or republicans pay in the money, whether the ultra-rich or the middle-class pay in the money, ALL WORKING PEOPLE SUPPORT THOSE ON WELFARE, SUPPORT GOV’T PROGRAMS, FUND THE WAR, PAY FOR POLICE AND FIREMEN, ETC….NOT JUST REPUBLICANS, NOT JUST THE RICH, ALL OF US THAT WORK DO.
It’s purposely misleading to tell people Obama will take their money and give it to people on welfare. No one was particularly worried about this when it was money mainly coming from middle-class workers footing the bill, but tell a rich republican that he has to start chipping in too and watch how quick the sparks fly.
Wake up democrats! Once again, you are sucked into the Hollywood awe of “I, Obama, will be your savior!” You want change?? Yup, socialism would be just that!! If he gets in, you’ll be in for a big surprise. That vote will be on you!
Exactly the point Neil. If we don’t understand history then we are doomed to repeat it.
NO MO BAMA!!!!!!
Right on Jessica! A christian based nation will not allow Obama be elected. The liberal right has no conscience concerning the rights of the citizens of America.
Obama is a muslim! Once a muslim, always a muslim. The country is in danger. There are no conservative muslims.
Obama will assist them to take over our country. IF WE LET THEM!
Guys, Obama will win the Presidency, even though he has ties to such extremists as Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright( come on people you don’t follow someone for 20 years and not believe what they are teaching). The man refuses to produce birth certificate, medical records or school records. His grandmother claims she was there when he was born in kenya! His half sister claims he was born in one hospital in Hawaii and he claims he was born in the other. On different days!
Not quite a continuation of previously posted comments – but – What if the 700 gazillion dollars (passed under threat that martial law would be imposed if the bailout was not passed), instead of being used to bail out fat cat corps. who made bad business decisions, had been distributed equally among every taxpayer in the United States…??? Would have given each of us enough money to pay our mortgages (stave off foreclosure) and “stimulate” the heck out of our economy -you think…??? Give us back our tax dollars!!!
Great thoughts, Casey, and how true they are.
I’m rejoining the discussion to reinforce my earlier statments this morning. Americans really need to focus on the problems of this country and quit trying to find fault with the candidates. We have personnel within our government that checks BC’s, and elgibility of our candidates running for office. I’d say both candidates have passed the vetting.
The continual response I get from those to protect the wealth of the wealthy, is job creation, a strong America, and the trickle down effect of this free enterprise non regulated system. Look at where we’re at, America? We the people, bail out a failing AIG, and they send their top sales people for a grand weekend. Over $400 thousand dollars for this! Hey, I believe in rewarding employees for hard work, but OMG.
Give them a $5,000.00 bonus, which is huge by my standards, and call it good. $50,000.00 total bill. That’s much more palitable. Without media attention, they’d have done it again. How out of touch are the wealthy? They are having difficulty grasping that millions of people are going down the toilet. They are still trying to adjust to the idea, why, because it does not affect them. We’ve all seen McCain and Palin’s tax information, still waiting for Cindy, though, to disclose her info, but how on God’s green Earth can they know my troubles, my struggles, my financial woes. As I said earlier, I hope the rich choke on their wealth. It is shameful of the greed and exploitation of this great Country. We, the people, have trusted and trusted, and the few, have preyed upon us and our honest efforts to work hard for America and the American Dream. We can no longer trust those who pledged to make our country strong by a conservative government. If you’re rich, I’m sure you won’t understand this! You’ve stolen our hope and our dreams of a better life. America has the greatest disparity between the common worker and top executives of the entire world. No man is worth what these execs are paid. Until this madness is corrected, we will become a third world class country, courtesy of the greedy and so-called conservative, free enterprise, non-regulated, and tax free sector.
Iol -
I just LOVE how you think race must be a factor! I don’t give a hoot if Obama’s purple but if I don’t cast my vote for him I’m racist? That’s racism. If I vote for Obama strictly because he’s half black that makes me “racially restricted” and stupid because I’ve quit listening to his ideas and cannot get past the color of his skin. I believe YOU may be a racist Iol.
The reality is Obama is playing on human nature. Sad to say but simply put there are doers and those that want handouts. If you work hard, get a few breaks, the opportunity to get ahead is there, you make it .That’s the spirit that made this country. Unfortunately, the dumming down of the public buys votes for those that have little motovation to succeed in life. The “hand out crowd”, the ones that do not see 50% of their hard earned dollar taken from them by government, the real enemy of all taxpayers. Politicians divide people and create controversity. They are helped by biased media. They both love chaos. It creates and stimulates jobs in their professions. We the misinformed public are the victims. Folks that deswerve help should receive it and they usually do. We are the most charitable nation in the world. Wealthy and average Americans do give to charity freely. Sad to say charities will be punished by the Marxist U.S. govt. I have supported a few well deserving charities over the years and am not sure if I will be able to continue. Giving back was always a goal in my life but I’m afraid that may change. As long as people remain selfish and expect others to make their lives easier without an effort to get ahead we are headed in the direction of the Roman Empire.
Everyone thinks redistribution of wealth means rob from the rich and give to the poor, and it’s not that simple. The recent bailout is redistribution of wealth. When credit card companies raise rates to 32 percent — as two tried to do to me even though I was not in default on those bills or any others — that is redistribution of wealth. Farm subsidies are a redistribution of wealth. Tax Increment Financing is a redistribution of wealth. What Obama seeks is not new or different or scary. What he seeks is fairness in redistribution of wealth.
We’ve seen huge corporations making record profits and giving top CEOs golden parachutes. My local hospital CEO was making $700,000 a year while I was paying $800 a month for health insurance for my family. Gas companies were making record profits at a time when gas prices were at record highs.
It’s interesting that conservatives want deregulated capitalism and also claim to have the closest ties to God and Jesus. But the greed that wreaks havoc on the market and the economy stems from non-Christian values.
I’d be a bigger believer in capitalism if we all started life from the same gate. But we don’t. Some of us are born richer or smarter or luckier. Those of us who aren’t get stuck paying the tab.
If corporate America would just take better care of its workers, you wouldn’t see Obama leading in the polls. But when you force a single mother to work 12 hours on then 12 off, she can’t find decent daycare; she can’t spend quality time with her kids. Then you cut her health benefits? You’re just asking for an Obama to come along.
Obama is not going to put an end to capitalism in America. All these posts that claim he will are just scare tactics aimed at keeping the status quo — as if our current economy was stellar. Get real.
I guess taking soundbites and clipping out the entire statement gives a clear portrayal of someone’s position now. Well in Rove/Mccain’s world I guess it is accurate. And apparently this youtube clip which I have seen the same on conservative sites across the net is a result of the trickle down ideals of clipping sound bites for projection of personal perceptions of a particular individuals instead of allowing people to draw certain conclusions from the entire interview for themselves…..What I am saying is that this youtube video is bias and complete BS on its own. Set from a close minded perspective to emote a certain disain for Obama tieing him to marxism which the actual interview could have been more of an intellectual delve into the topic…but hey just saying lets hear the actual interview before grabbing the RNC pitchforks.
I love the statement about the constitution being about “negative liberties.” Let’s see -how the union is made up – president, congress, courts. Guarantees a republican form of gov’t, protection from invasion, freedom of religion, speech, and press. Right against unreasonable searches. Right to a speedy and fair trial. No slavery. The right to vote.
What am I missing? They all seem POSITIVE liberties to me!
MDROSS,
Put away your race card. It doesn’t fly here.
Obama launched his career from the home of two domestic terrorists William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, and collaborates with radical groups like ACORN under the guise of “community organizing”. He sat in a church for over 20 years listening to the sermons of a rabid moonbat who “god-damned” America and railed against “wh!tey” and Jews.
Some of the world’s worst dictators and Islamic goons are head over heels for his campaign.
So far, he’s accumulated William Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Amahdinejad, Louis Farrakhan, Daniel Ortega, Jeremiah Wright, and Hamas among his associates, admirers, and supporters. He’s a human bug light for despots, terrorists, and hate spewers. No wonder you democrats love him.
His Marxist economic theories, foreign policy idea of playing diplomatic patty-cake with Islamofascist countries like Iran, and his communist roots, don’t play very well to a patriotic Middle America.
Hint, sweetpea: It ain’t his skin color, it’s his SOCIALIST agenda.
Everyone should take into consideration that a Democratic Congress and President could be devastating for this Country.
McCain The Man of Honor and Integrity
vs
Obama The Inspirational Speaker
McCain is an open book we’ve know him for 30 years. He has been one of the most honest Senators and has always taken responsibility for his actions.
Obama Has yet to be totally honest about anything and embelished everything else.
So if you ask him about this interview he’ll just say those words aren’t what I meant and then he will probably give you an insprational speech about how great the Constitution really is.
My wife and I make about $80,000 a year. We don’t want charity. We went into business for ourselves a few years back, and it failed. In 1999, my income was $7,000. Trying to save my business, I racked up credit card debt.
Rather than file bankruptcy, I felt obligated to pay my bills, and I have been paying them. I changed jobs twice since then to earn more money. But I have not been able to sell my house in my former town, so I am now paying two mortgages while trying to pay my debt.
I have about $30,000 in credit card debt and have been paying just slightly above the minimum due (until my house sells). I have gotten to the point where I don’t use credit cards anymore, so I’m not adding debt.
Two of the card companies raised my interest rate to 32 percent because they determined that I am at greater risk now. I was not in default on those cards or any others or any of my bills. Everything is current.
I wrote to the companies, and they both dropped my interest rate by 20 percent. That’s good for me. But what about people who don’t know they can write a letter, or don’t know how to write a letter. After all, I’m a professional writer.
It’s easy to say that opportunity abounds in America if you just work hard. But tell me how it is right and fair and just to raise a guy’s interest rate on a credit card to 32 percent when he’s not in default on the card?
That’s just one example of several ways that I feel capitalism failed me. I’m not for throwing out the baby with the bath water; I’m for fairness. And that’s why I’m voting for Obama.
Jesseca – THAT is another McCain lie being told, that Obama is FOR WITHOLDING MEDICAL TREATMENT FROM BABIES that survive abortion. THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE and McCain knows it.
If you watched the final debate they talked about this. McCain said because Sen. Obama voted “present” instead of voting “yes” or “no” on a bill that included this, it must mean he didn’t care. Obama said he was OF COURSE IN FAVOR OF the medical treatment, but also said the vote on it wasn’t necessary because there is ALREADY A LAW ON THE BOOKS THAT ENSURES THIS and republicans know it.
He said the only reason he voted “present” instead of “yes” was that they had stuffed some other things into the bill that would not protect the life of the mother. (this is a common trick in Washington, hiding an unpopular thing in a bill with a POPULAR thing to sneak it past in a vote)
Sen. Obama said there was no need to vote on it because the law is ALREADY IN PLACE saying that if any fetus survives abortion it must be rendered medical treatment. McCain knows this, he’s just not going to tell the voters.
Be careful what you believe when you hear this stuff, take the time to check it out for yourself before blindly believing anything. McCain has an agenda and is purposely misleading people. It’s shameful how low he has sunk in his tactics.
For Obama lovers – yes, you are angry about ceo’s making millions while you have to struggle. The stockholders should have more of a say in this, but to take money from others and give it to the less fortunate is socialism, which preaches equality and fairness. The U.S. was built on capitalism, which is not fair. It rewards work. It doesn’t give you the right to be comfortable. Sorry – I make less than $70,000 and think this redistribution is a bad idea. It reward people who don’t work.
As far as medical care, the gov’t has never, ever taken over something successfully. Medicare is trillions in the hole and social security is broke because congress has raided it. Now you want people to be subsidized for medical care by the gov’t. Any extra money that goes into the gov’t’s coffers for healthcare will be spent on other things. Instead, they should be working on lowering the cost of healthcare, not taking it over.
Do we really need a civilian security force like Obama proposes? He hasn’t even explained what these people will do but he wants to spend as much on it as the military.
And, why does he want to go into Afghanastan, to increase troops, when he’s against finishing up in Iraq? That doesn’t make sense. Go from one fire into another. Instead, he should be recommending a pullout in Afghanastan, too.
There are lots of questions on his plans but no real answers. People have a right to be suspicious of him for a variety of reasons. Where’s his judgement with people like Rezko, or his uncle, Raila Odinga? I don’t even want to think about Ayers, the traitor. In my opinion, Ayers should have been banned from this country. I don’t care if he has “reformed” which I doubt.
This redistribution is just another confirmation of Obama’s lack of judgement and no real understanding of what this will do economically to America.
I have never seen such a foolish ignorant publicity stunt like this in all my adult years! I think some of this stuff that I am seeing is America’s response of it’s racist heart being exposed! Yes,do read your bibles people! You will find out that God doesn’t need you or I,McCain or Obama,Biden or cocky Palin to set this nation in order! People can pretend all they want! I know and God knows it not about the country & the state it’s in,it’s not really about the issues either,but it’s about a man of color holding this office! Anglosaxtons have felt they had a strong hold,and their afraid of loosing it! But,look at the mess this country is in now! It can’t get any worse! So,they will come up with all kinds of excuses,accusations and drama,all out of fear! You see God is in control!!! God always has been,is and always will be in control! The earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof,the world and they that dwell therein! Somebody said read Revelations,wrong book buddy! Look it over,and over again!
McCain, the man of honor and integrity? Was it with honor and integrity that he helped Charles Keating bring down the Savings & Loan industry?
Was it with honor and integrity that he supported the Confederate flag and then later said he didn’t really feel it in his heart but supported it for political expediency?
Was it with honor and integrity when he counted non-binding resolutions in saying that Obama had voted to raise taxes over 200 times, when, using the same math, McCain had voted to raise taxes over 900 times?
Was it honor and integrity that prompted him to ask Sarah Palin to be her running mate — the one who lobbied for the bridge to nowhere and only dropped her efforts when it became apparent that funding would not be achieved and then claimed to have opposed it?
Yes, Obama sat in church with Rev. Wright. You guys make it sound like every sermon started out with a God damn to America.
Yes, Obama sat on a couple of boards, along with Republicans, with Bill Ayers. And he attended a political event at Ayers’ house. You guys make it sound like they slept together. His relationship with Bill Ayers was not as close as McCain’s relationship to Charles Keating or Gordon Liddy.
Of course, you guys probably think Ollie North was a hero instead of the criminal that he actually was. You’d praise Richard Nixon if you could get by with it. I guess where you stand really does depend on where you sit.
To Mack:
Amen!
Obama’s health care plan is not nationalized health care. It utilizes existing insurance companies and strives to lower the cost of health care. Nationalized health care was Hillary’s plan, not Obama’s.
McCain wants to give a $5,000 insurance tax credit. That’s not a $5,000 check. That’s a tax credit, which is much different. Then he wants to turn around and tax health care benefits for the first time ever.
He says this is not the time to raise taxes on anyone, but his health care plan does just that.
Remember when George Bush Sr. said, “Read my lips. No new taxes.” And then the first thing he did was raise taxes.
I guess I should just blindly trust the Republicans. They’ve done such a great job for the past 8 years.
So many issuses first all major presidental canidates are finacal upper class so don’t fool yourself if they were so concernd about the poor they would have alot less. It is the WORKING class that has always carried this country. The real problem is so many jobs going over seas.More redisturbtion will solve nothing. I would like to have buffets money,but but i don’t want someone to steal it and give it to me.As for the ceo that runs a company in the ground ? it was the company that hired him and gave him that contrat stock holders own the company now who’s to blame? I live in IL. where obama is one of two democratic senators and we have dem.. govenor what have they done for me? oh and the economy stinks here to
Steve J
re: your 3:08a comment and my 3:20a comment
There are elements of the Israelite jubilee/no permanent land sales model that would cause big problems over time.
1. It does not accommodate immigrants. All land reverts to the original families every 7 years. It would not be possible for immigrants to permanently acquire land and be fully integrated. They would risk being homeless every 7 years.
2. Large families would become poorer than small families. Land was divided among all the children. Over the course of generations, large families will have less land. A permanent underclass would develop and there would truly be no possibility of social mobility.
Taxes on the “rich.” Who pay 33 – 35% taxes. In other words, you work at least four months for the gov’t. Anyone who agrees the rich should pay higher taxes is nuts and you’ve been lulled by gov’t into thinking taxes are okay while they blow your money on vacations to the gallapagos islands under the guise of “research”. In addition, you pay another “tax” for social security. If you’re self-employed, like these little businesses, like my husband, you pay another 12.4% tax, and 2.9% on medicare tax for a grand total of 48.3% – 50.3% in taxes! Now, add your sales tax, your property tax, your school taxes to the mix. And, you want to raise it another 3%? Come on. This is insanity. No wonder this country is in trouble. The gov’t is taking all of our money! You guys have been fed a load of bull or you’re just blind to being ripped off. More fiscal responsibility is desperately needed in this country and Obama ain’t going to help.
I’d like to ask Bopp how he knows this to be a fact about Obama. I accept we are totally on the opposite sides of the fence but have teeth in what you say. We are all human and have a past. Walking out on your sick wife is not honorable and with integrity. He regrets what he did; and all we can do is forgive him as well.
I think we can agree America has a huge problem right now with trust in our politicians. None are totally innocent of their pasts but to condemn one and say the other is honorable, upright and without flaw is beyond me. The Keating scandal, is McCain being totally honest or does he just say it was a mistake, regrets it happened and it makes it OK?
Sue – As for the negative liberties comment, I think it is simply above your head what he was referring to. You are aware that he is a professor of congressional law, right? The word “negative” as used in that sentence did have the meaning you are trying to apply to it. Think of it more in terms of “preventive” and perhaps it will make more sense to you.
I meant to say DIDN’T have the meaning you are trying to apply to it. oops
Neither of these candidates are perfect but which one will do less damage? If you have a democratic congress just itching to spend, spend, spend with Frank outright stating it and Pelosi needing more money for botox, I can’t vote for Obama. He hasn’t shown me a track record of results except for some radical ties with chicago corruption. McCain is the only way and I’ll pray that he does what he needs to for this country.
Well thanks KJ. I’m sure you understood it perfectly.
KJ – you write about McCain supporters being wrong on Obama’s abortion stance, so be it. But, also realize that it’s going on in the Obama arena also. And, Obama lied to us on national tv during the debate that his kick off was not at Ayer’s home. Yes, it was. And, there are Dems who were there that will back that up. Now, if there is anyone who is be discriminated against, it is Sarah Palin. She is, esentially, more qualified than Obama, however, she has one think not going for her, she is female. I’ve never seen such chauvinistic, disgusting, unfair, sex discriminating talk from women and men. Just this constant harrassment and mockery has made me realize that women still have a long way to go before they are ever considered equal. Shame on women to deride her. I never did that to Hillary and I was not a fan.
There is no way to defend Obama on the born alive bill. Even if there was a law in place, it obviously wasn’t working and a new one was needed. And even after the language of the bill was modified so that it would NOT unambiguously undermine Roe v Wade, he still did not vote for it.
“If you WERE a real Christian, you would support Socialism”
WOW! That is a statement that needs some bashing.You obviously haven’t read much of Saint Thomas Aquinas, or about his followers, the late Scolastics, and how they created what is known today as “Austrian Economics”.Nothing Socialistic about it.
Sure, some Evangelicals do believe in some kind of Socialistic welfare programs. Forenign Aid to Africa, to Israel,but the majority of us Catholics believe in Freedom of Human Action.
For this recording. It doesn’t surprise me. He’s in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, and Malcom X. The continuation of the Democrat party. Should we be outraged? Indeed we should be. But don’t be outraged at BO. Be outraged at how America has drifted Left, and is following along with it.
Let’s be honest here. The Bush Administration, with it’s Bailout, and giving more power to the head of the Tresury and IRS, is giving who ever becomes President, Socialism on a silver plate.
Be very frighten.
JH
You said // why is it bad if the government chooses to act in accordance with the teachings of Christ?//
One of the most essential features of the teachings of Christ was respect for the individual’s freedom of choice. He pointed out the futility of the Pharisaic emphasis on minute regulations of behavior. He called for a change of paradigm where constructive behavior flowed from the heart (a changed mind exercised by free will).
If God was an advocate of forced good behavior we would all be robots and there would be no misbehavior. But He is not. He is about the free exercise of will. He has tolerated (which is not to say ‘liked’) misbehavior from the beginning while advocating that people ‘choose’ constructive behavior.
I like your views KJ WHITE and for all u Obama haters get a life
People are just getting started:
http://www.freedommarch.org/
The polls are tainted:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/dont_forget_the_undecided_vote.html
They see it, why can’t the koolaid drinkers see it?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5777
There’s actually a petition online:
http://www.rallycongress.com/gotcitizenship/1343/petition-to-demand-that-diane-feinstein-chairwoman-senate-committee-on-rules-and-administration-inve/
http://obamaimpeachment.org/
Oh for us real Catholics/Christian who look to the 10 Comandments, it states in one of them:”Thou shal not steal”.
Taxes=Theft.Anything taken from you by force, or threat of imprisonment is stealing.And yes, I hate taxes with every inch of my body. No it is not a nessary evil.It’s Evil. Period.
Whether abortion is legal or not, abortions have and will continue to happen. This is not the burden for anyone to bear except for the woman who does this. It’s choice she makes. It is outrageous to go any further in discussions about born alive and who supported or didn’t support the bill. When will we stop trying to blame others for the abortion issue. I’m pro life all the way, but I don’t blame Obama for the choice a woman makes concerning her unborn child. How could she allow her born alive child to be left to die?
K J White I read the votes He made not just on the national level but also the State level reguarding the born alive act. I also went even further and researched it online as well. I also noticed you didn’t say anything about his Pro-choice stance. He has also said the first thing he will sign into law is a bill that would require All doctors and hospitals to provide abortions reguardless of their own religious or moral beliefs.
And further more I live in a democratic run state. We have had a democratic majority for nearly 35 years. No how we rank one of the lowest on income and (have for like 30+ years) and one of the highest in taxes (and have for like 30+ years). So I know all to well were this country is headed if Obama and his democratic friends get in. But honestly if you are going to vote for him it does not matter what anyone says or what he says himself you will just believe what you want anyway. That is one thing that is so great in this country we can disagree, and we are all entitled to our own beliefs. Let’s just remember we are all Americans. Therefore who ever is elected we are in this together.
The EVENT HORIZON is here. If it smells bad, looks bad, tastes bad; It probably is BAD. NOBAMA, NO MARXISM, NO ROBINHOOD.
OBAMA IN THE WHITE HOUSE will bring about a R E V O L U T I O N.
“sharing the wealth” is just another way to punish the hard workers. To be honest i was an “A” student in school except for a few times when my teachers had this thing about evening out the grades.i think its called plane grading?What i mean is a few other students and I always had “A’s” and some students didn’t think it was fair so the teacher would take all the students grades and we would add them up and have a class average grade.So a lot of times i would have an “A” but would end up with a “B” or sometimes a “C” because the good students would have to carry the students that didn’t do so well or were just lazy.i can say i challenged the school on this issue and won and got my “A’s”. i think this is a
good comparison as i feel that it would be unfair to punish those of us who actually work hard and try to get out of the box to have a better life.Anyone can have a better life if they want to.
Karl Marx socialism, which Senator Hussein Obama advocates, disavows religion. How then whould a Christian Country be socialist?
All taxation represents a redistribution of wealth, period. If every American paid exactly $100 in taxes, and 100% of that money went to fund national defense, it would STILL be redistribution of wealth.
The argument made here is that redistribution from the top to the middle, or bottom, is bad because it’s socialistic. That’s the start of an argument, but it’s not an argument. Why is it bad? Is it bad for reasons of basic libertarian fairness? Is it bad because it doesn’t work?
On basic fairness, I would suggest that punishing money earned through labor with a tax rate twice that of money earned through investments fails the basic fairness test. However, if this policy works, increasing economic growth and opportunity, then, as unfair as it is, it should be continued as a utilitarian concept.
I suggest that the supply-side theory that has had two full blown live tests has failed miserably, in both cases with balooning debt and major financial crisis. I also suggest that students of history and politics actually take a look at the record of results of redistributive experiments in this country, and compare them to the supply-side experiments. In both cases wealth grew, but the redistributive experiments were far more effective in growing the consumer class, the engine of our economy (consumer spending accounts for 70% of our GDP). So again, if top down redistribution works, from a utilitarian perspective, then why is the basic libertarian fairness all of a sudden such a concern, when it is ignored in the capital gains tax situation?
I think this whole meme is simply an appeal to old red scare fears. And like every other attack, I think this will fail.
At least 10 times on this forum, I’ve seen the words “take others people’s money and give it to the less fortunate”
or–
Take money I worked for and give it to those that don’t work.
All of you saying these things are MISINFORMED and being fooled by John McCain.
Please explain to me how giving a tax cut to middle-class WORKERS (not welfare recipients, they don’t work or pay taxes people!) a TAX CUT TO MIDDLE-CLASS WORKERS is somehow giving away your money? Unless you are very rich, less taxes our of your paycheck puts more money in your pocket, or don’t you grasp this?
McCain purposely used the sarcastic words “welfare state” KNOWING people would hear that and minunderstand the meaning of what he was really saying. He KNEW people would equate those words with a black candidate and automatically think Obama is going to tax ONLY REPUBLICANS *SOMEHOW* and then give all their tax money to people on welfare.
Please stop being stupid people. McCain is counting on your stupidity. McCain is not going to lower taxes on the middle-class, he is going to give tax breaks (like Bush) only to the RICH. How many of you here bitching about Obama are rich? If you’re not, McCain isn’t going to help you. Unless you are rich, McCain is going to make you poorer, NOT Obama.
Obama is lowering taxes on WORKERS that make less that $250,000 per year (most of us) and will make the rich pay a little more in taxes because after all the breaks they’ve gotten with Bush in office, they can certainly afford it.
Don’t let McCain trick you. Obama is NOT taking money from people to give to welfare recipients, that’s just STUPID. (Frankly, it’s something McCain KNEW you’d be willing to believe because Obama is black and McCain was hoping you’d automatically equate a black person with welfare)
This tax plan has nothing to TO DO with welfare and McCain knows it, he just want to get the two confused in YOUR mind. It is about all of us that have been paying the HIGHEST TAXES (middle-class) while rich people get to pay the lowest taxes. That is how Bush and McCain do things.
Obama simply wants to lower taxes on the middle-class so we have more money in our pocket. If you call that “redistributing the wealth”, it’s ok by me. But it has NOTHING to do with welfare.
Answer me this, why was it alright when the rich got all these tax breaks under Bush, forcing all of the middle-class to pay higher taxes? Why is only ok to distribute wealth UPWARD? How many of you here are actually IN that 5% of the population that benefits from John McCain’s tax breaks to the rich?
How many of you are in that category of earning LESS than $250,000/year? Obama’s plan will benefit YOU. Use your head, stop believing the lies.
The problem with your argument KJ is this. Take for instance my company. Say the company made around 700 thousand last year. Does that mean I made 700 thousand last year? No. It means, that money went to payroll, overhead, shipping costs,gas, travel costs, and on top of all of that, Taxes.
Did the Bush tax cuts help my company? Not really, being that my states tax hikes off set that.
But in your eyes, and most Democrats and Republicans, I’m rich, and should be taxed more. Why in Gods name, if my company is empolying people, would you want me to Pay More in Taxes??
Downloadable audio as mp3 of 54 minute show from WBEZ Chicago public radio is here
Regular Ron – I can appreciate what you are saying, but please consider this – Most Americans are NOT business owners. Most Americans work for a weekly paycheck. And most of us in that category have gotten the crap taxed out of us, if I may be blunt.
You can’t deny that the wealthy have fared better than the middle-class under Bush. Plus when you own a business, there are all sorts of loopholes and financial voo-doo accountants can use to get your tax rates down. We dont get that. We just hand over a third or more of what we earn every week to the government, and then try to pay our health insurance out of the little bit that’s left in case one of our kids gets sick.
I’m sorry, but I feel that the family I support is every bit as important as the employees you employ. We BOTH have people that need us apparently. You say How could you want to tax me more when I employ people? Because at the end of the day, I’ll bet you can afford groceries…while maybe some of your middle-class taxed to death struggling to pay health insurance employees cannot!
That’s how.
Why Elect John Sydney McCain? It is simple, choose the best person for the job!I can tell you that in the Democratic Primary, Kimala and I were for Clinton, and re-evaluated after the conventions. We considered the Democratic Nominee and found him to be lacking in many aspects of Presidential qualities. While George Bush has been one of the most failed
Presidencies in modern times, we cannot afford to gamble with another “winner” like him, AKA Senator Obama. Bush and Obama have much in common – lots of money, both very naive, cunning and secretive. Not to mention that the Senator’s record and policies run amuck to mirroring socialism, then considering the people Obama CHOSE to associate himself with as an adult.
Adding in the fact that Obama is ignorant of telling the truth and just says it is not true and if he doesn’t like the answer his political cronies smear your name like mud. And there is the zero experience factor, Mr. Obama has been running for political office essentially since the day he is sworn for the Illinois Senator in 2004; running for President since 2006. High aspirations with virtual zero experience, leads me to ask where’s the beef ?
There is only one clear answer. Senator McCain. An honorable man with firsthand knowledge of the military, and the good and bad that can happen. He is center-right related on issues and policy. Do my wife and I agree on him with all the issues no, but neither did America when it
voted for Governor Reagan.
Ron,
I assume you are making a hypothetical statement, since if it were an accounting of actual circumstances, you would have been able to conclude what your company’s actual taxable profit were. If your company had revenues of $700k, all of the expenses you describe (payroll, overhead, shipping costs,gas, travel costs) would go against those revenues, and your net taxable profit would be what you had left after all that. As a small business, you would probably be sub-chapter S, which would mean that any profit left at the end of the year would be taxed as regular income. After paying yourself a salary, you would have the option of reinvesting your profits into the company and paying no additional taxes.
Obama’s plan is to cut taxes for earners making under $200k annually, no change for earners making between $200k and $250k annually, and a 3% increase in taxes on income over $250 (mind you that 3% ONLY applies to income dollars from $250k and up). And the tax rates on these earners would STILL be equal or less than they paid under Clinton.
When people talk about America, I have yet to find someone who felt that America was less American in the 50’s than it is now. And yet in the 1950’s, the top earners paid a marginal rate of over 90% and an effective real total federal tax rate of about 75%. At the same time, median wage earners paid about 8% in total federal taxes. Our economy grew at a higher rate than today, the consumer class grew enormously, and as a result of this consumption, the entire economy grew a good clip. As Henry Ford said, when asked why he paid his workers so much, “I want them to be able to buy my cars”.
The income gap proves that wealth does not trickle down, but when the consumer class stops buying and the economy falls off a cliff, it makes it perfectly clear that consumption does bubble up and lift all those yachts.
If government policies enrich the consumer class, whether through redistributive (read progressive) tax policy, or other means, it will stimulate economic growth, and the rich will get richer, only unlike supply-side economics, the consumers will get wealthier too.
As a “professional writer,” do you have a link to your articles informing the people? Or do you think ‘blog comments’ are more effective?
KJ…I applaud your honesty.And, No I’m not being sarcastic.
You have to take care of your family. I have to take care of my employees.(Yes, we do pay their Health Insurance, another cost that is involved with what the company makes)
Have you and the rest of us been taxed up to our eyeballs? Indeed.But from what you are saying is, I, should pay more.I still don’t get his mantality.
KJ..In all honesty, what would your solution be?
CaptinSarcastic…You want to see my tax bill? lol
Again, I don’t believe any of us should be paying taxes. Period.
Yet, Obama deriding McCain for not supporting Bush’s tax cuts because of the ‘porking up’ of the Bill and lack of corresponding spending cuts is okay with you?
Oh and for the record. I’m voting for None of the above, before some of you start claiming I’m a McCain suppoter.
“Bush and Obama have much in common – lots of money, both very naive, cunning and secretive.”
Huh?
Bush came from a dynastic, wealthy family, Obama earned a few million from a successful writing career in late 1990’s. Obama has known, for most of his life, having to get by on a modest income. John McCain came from a wealthy family and married into a super-wealthy family, and has never, ever is his life known financial hardship. Other hardships, sure, but never financial.
As to cunning, that’s semantics, I would hope ANY President we were to elect were cunning, which means, by definition, skillful or clever. Or do you mean the negative definition of cunning, meaning skillful at deception, which again, I would want my President to be capable of, I would just want it directed in service of the nation, not in service of an agenda that hurts America, as GWB did.
As far as secretive, Obama is an open book compared to McCain. McCain has a vast $100M+ fortune of which the use and relationships related to that fortune are completely hidden from view through his wife.
In any case, McCain ackowledges that he is a supply-sider, supply economics has failed. Why would we want to do that again? Moreover, just from a decision making standpoint, I’ll take a guy with the intellect to be at the top of his class at Harvard law over a guy who was at the bottom at his class at Annapolis.
Nothing against sailors, but we have only had one President who was an Annapolis graduate, and that President is considered to be a failure, and at least that President was at the top of his class at Annapolis.
That President – Jimmy Carter.
To Patrick on October 27th, 2008 1:00 pm
Remember what you posted here when you face God on judgment day. Hope you realize He is real and not fake before that day.
hahaha, ok, sure, judgement day, thanks for the tip. And I wish I could see the shock on your nothing face when you realize after this it’s just nothingness…forever. Enjoy living for death, while I enjoy living for life.
Can anyone (ANYONE!) explain to me how a Republican is against redistribution of wealth as a role of government? Republicans do NOT favor a flat tax (I just checked their website). ANY taxation where you pay more than the person sitting next to you, regardless of how much you make, IS a redistribution of wealth. Both the Dems and Repubs support the massive redistribution of wealth!
The flat tax I mentioned before would be a first step away from wealth redistribution. But, even a flat tax (such as a 20% income tax) IS a redistribution of wealth. A person making $400K would pay $80K while a person making $100K would pay $20K.
So, unless YOU support everyone in America (regardless of their income) paying the same exact amount YOU support wealth redistribution. C’mon, you know you love it. Americans LOVE wealth redistribution.
You can’t laugh when that time comes. You’ll be trembling in fear.
Poor Mans Stock Market Analysis
You know I have a problem with people who try to act like when the stock market goes down it is a bad thing. If you really think about it, for about 90% of the people in the U.S. the stock market climbing is a bad indicator. I know yall are probably thinking I am crazy but just hang with me on this one. If you look at the distribution of wealth you will find that much of the nation do not have a stock portfolio that is higher than a few thousand dollars. So on a day when the stock market goes up they may earn 10, 20, 40, 80, who knows if its a good day and they are a elite investor they may see a value increase close to a thousand dollars. They go home thinking what a good day.
However there’s 3-5% of Americans out there that have millions to billions invested in the stock market. On that same day they will see a value increase in the $1000, $10,000, $100,000, to maybe even million dollar range. Money which they frankly they do not need. The kicker is when you look at were that money is coming from.
Stocks, as many of you already know, have no real value. Much like paper money they only have the value we give them. The reason that a stock price will go up is due to the fact that the company that issued that stock is projected to make a higher profit than was expected previously. This profit in reality is the money that the company is able to take from its customers (typically the general populous) over what their services are worth. So the billions of dollars of profit that company X earns is distributed out in a way so that out of every dollar made the top 1% in wealth will divide 38 cents. And the bottom 40% get to split a whopping .05 cents. The point is that the stock market is no more than a big tallying system that on a daily basis tracks the flow rate of wealth from the average American citizen to the 10 or 15 million richest investors in the stock market.
So it you look at it closely and break the paradigm of up = good down = bad that has been feed to you and truly analyze the matter from a normal persons view. Tomorrow when you see the stock market rise by 100 points you will know that in someway it is expect that you will get less for your money then you did yesterday. Look I think the stock market is a great tool that can foster a competitive society but with the huge separation of wealth we see today it is something that nearly 300 million Americans should begin to worry about. In the beginning of 2006 the top 100 richest people had a total value of just over 1 trillion dollars. One year later the top 100 richest had a total value of 1.4 trillion dollars. So in a year’s time this group increased it value by around 350 billion dollars. Doing a little math 350 divided by 100 people means 3.5 a person. That means that on average the top 100 increased there value by 3.5 billion dollars last year. To better understand that figure would equate 1.68 million dollars an hour. I agree with republicans on many issues having to do with public policies. But your economic politics do not serve the needs of the general populous, people who could use that wealth.
“The income gap proves that wealth does not trickle down…”
I propose that the income gap isn’t as large as it should be based on ability. Is Bill Gates (an extreme) really “only” $100 billion times more capable than a broke guy living on the street? Why is an income gap seen as something wrong? There are real gaps in people’s abilities…massive gaps.
“If government policies enrich the consumer class, whether through redistributive (read progressive) tax policy, or other means, it will stimulate economic growth, and the rich will get richer, only unlike supply-side economics, the consumers will get wealthier too.”
Why is it the role of government to stimulate growth? Government should protect agreed upon rights (outlined in the US Constitution) and the rest (even the bad economic downturns) are part of life. I know, I know…I’m writing heresy and I’m terribly naive. By the way, how’s government bloat, corruption, waste, and the financial meltdown working for ya’?
Let’s chat in four years when government is bigger, more in debt and I’m just as naive. Maybe by that time you’ll have read just how the government is spending all that money they take from us. Hint: they ain’t enriching “the consumer class”.
Oh, OK, I’ll just tell you. They use tax revenue to get re-elected. Real cliffhanger.
“CaptinSarcastic…You want to see my tax bill? lol”
I could recommend an accountant, because if you have a small business and you are paying more than 20% in total taxes, you are doing something wrong.
“Again, I don’t believe any of us should be paying taxes. Period.”
There are a thousand examples I could give, but the obvious one is that we would be speaking German, and paying taxes to Germany, if our tax dollars did not fund the liberation of Europe and the defense of the United States.
gee david you just had to put the bush senior comment “read my lips no new taxes” Are you that ignorant?Seriously why do you think clinton was elected.Bill promised to cut/lower taxes,but the very first thing he did was raise taxes.Bill Clinton even admittted on national tv that maybe some of his policys were wrong and the crisis we are in now could have been avoided.Ie:the housing crisis,the dot coms,foreign policy etc,. Every one keeps wanting to blame “Bush” and yet even when the new rescue package came out ,it was ok that the Dems had millions of dollars in earmarks attached. And if you havnt been watching the news more controversy raised in a radio interview in 2001 that confirms OBama wants to “spread the wealth”..Look people, most are so ignorant to what is about to happen. this man is such a liar.why is the fact that Mr. Obama is only 6.25% African Negro not reported? Because to acknowledge it is to report this devastating truth about him: Mr. Obama is not legally African-American. It is impossible for him to be, in truth, America’s first African-American president.Mr. Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother’s side. He is 43.75% Arabic, and 6.25% African Negro from his father’s side. Put another way, his father could honestly claim African-American ethnic classification. He was the last generation able to do so.
The “poor” in this country have educational opportunities if they would just get up and take advantage of them.
My guess as to why they don’t is because it’s much easier to sit back and let the rest of us take care of them. Those who do take advantage of the opportunities go on to lead productive lives DESPITE their cirmcumstances.
It’s called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY folks…
get some.
I’m a Tax Examiner for the IRS. I look at 10s of thousands of individual tax returns every year. In the course of my work I’ve come to realize that most Americans, the vast majority in fact, not only don’t understand the basics of the tax system, they don’t even want to know. Most of you fill out your tax forms like you’re ripping off a Band-Aid – as fast as possible, and letting the unpleasant memory fade just as fast. So when I see people write “this isn’t welfare”, I wonder if they just don’t understand it, or if they’re rationalizing it so they can find it acceptable.
It absolutely is welfare. We take money from people who make it, and give it to people who don’t. They euphemistically refer to it as a “refundable credit”, but it’s nothing more than welfare with an Orwellian term.
You don’t even have to be a US citizen to get other people’s money for the “Additional Child Tax Credit”, and we know lots of the dependents listed to help people qualify for it have never even seen the USA. They just get ITIN’s (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) for they’re relative’s back home, and ZAP, there goes your money. On the EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit), you have to have a valid SSN, but you still don’t need to have any REAL INCOME to claim it. You just fudge up a Schedule C for the magic amount that gets you a maximum “refund”, and ZAP, free money. The really cool part is that you create a SS deficit in your name by having to pay “Self Employment Tax” but you never send it in because you “Refundable Tax Credit” more than offsets it, and some SUCKER/productive member of society has to fill it up for you. Pretty sweet deal.
And that’s not even the half of it.
You’re being robbed like no other people in history, and you’re about to get even more robbed.
Yes refundable tax credits are a form of welfare. I’m glad finally somebody mentioned it. Unfortunately for both fans of both candidates, both of them are supporting refundable tax credits; Obama with his so called “middle class tax cut” and McCain with his hypocritical health care plan.
Casey2860:
“So the billions of dollars of profit that company X earns is distributed out in a way so that out of every dollar made the top 1% in wealth will divide 38 cents. And the bottom 40% get to split a whopping .05 cents.”
You need to state the assumptions you made during your analysis for anyone to actually believe it… Let me know if I’ve misinterpreted your gist in the two points below…
#1: Companies that want to stay in business take only a modest portion of their profits and distribute it VOLUNTARILY to their shareholders. Those are called dividends. There is no requirement for a company to pay a dividend but many do as an incentive to own their stock. The rest of the profits (usually the vast majority) are REINVESTED into the business (e.g. they expand operations, hire more people, etc).
#2: I suppose you are assuming that if the top 1% of investors own 38% of Company X’s stock then they will be paid (collectively!)$0.38 on every dollar dividend that Company X pays. But that makes perfect sense… if I own 100 shares of stock and the company pays a dividend of $1.00 per share, then I get $100 because I own the stock (we will also ignore double taxation, BTW). I took the risk of investing in Company X therefore I get the return! If company X goes belly-up and I own their stock, guess what? I lose. If I own 38% of the stock in Company X then I REALLY LOSE. Ask Lehman Brothers stockholders how they’re feeling these days. That’s what risk and reward is all about you silly. You don’t get something for nothing…unless of course you lobby government : )
Sorry, but you’re way off on this. Why not try taking both sides of this? Take a look at some examples that Obama gives on spreading the wealth. Or, if you are going to make a claim that one of our US Senators is a socialist then back it up with some of his socialist policies.
Yes, he wants to change the tax brackets for people so that the wealthier pay a higher percent. But that is called progressive tax
and it’s how the IRS has been working for a long, long time. Obama is not inventing or even attempting to instill this as a new concept. It’s already here. This is how our taxes work, they are progressive. Now, I would guess that if you are paying taxes in the US but aren’t familiar with a progressive tax, than you will probably be better off under Obama’s tax plan as it benefits those in the lower tax brackets. Joe the Plumber clearly wasn’t aware of the progressive taxes which we have based on his quote.
Obama has also mentioned redistribution of wealth in the context of giving tax breaks to companies that hire in the US and not to companies that hire overseas. That is another interpretation of wealth redistribution that I think it’s difficult to oppose (unless you’re wanting to ship jobs out of the country).
Here’s a link for you, I suggest more research on socialism:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008294130_webcampsocialism21.html
“It absolutely is welfare. We take money from people who make it, and give it to people who don’t. They euphemistically refer to it as a “refundable credit”, but it’s nothing more than welfare with an Orwellian term.”
Ifa single person is making minimum wage, working full time, were to get a refundable credit of $500, they have still paid federal taxes.
Here’s the math:
40 hours @ $8 an hour times 50 weeks – $16,000
$16,000 X 7.65% SS tax and 2.9% Medicare taxes = $1688 in federal taxes.
Refundable tax credit of $500
Federal taxes of $1688
Tax burden $1188
This a reduction of their federal tax burden, not welfare.
For a family, the tax credit will be $1000, so even if the only income in the family were one income of $10,000 a year, they would still be be paying more in federal taxes than they are getting back.
Not welfare.
Companies that ship jobs offshore are the equivelant of cannibals that eat their young. They might feast for a period, but they are dooming themselves to extinction.
We need trade agreements that respect labor, not trade agreements that allow trading partners to sell us goods made with slave labor and refuse to allow our goods to be exported to their countries.
This is not protectionism, this is the biggest consumer market in the world setting rules requiring basic human dignities for those that wish to sell into this market.
In order to compete with slave labor, without establishing rules for our trading partners, we would have to become slave labor.
What’s wrong with telling a trading partner that we won’t buy from countries that abuse their workforce? Will they sell elsewhere? Good luck with that.
Refundable tax credits can reduce an individual’s tax liability below zero. This is why it should be considered welfare.
What’s the big deal? Obama is a constutional law professor, and State Senator, talking about the role of the courts in achieving the social and economic goals of the civil rights movement. So what? Some of the posters here have the misguided notion that he’s a Marxist simply because he discusses ideas such as redistribution of wealth. He’s not advocating any particular position, he’s just discussing ideas. How are we supposed to govern ourselves in America if we won’t even allow open and honest discussion?
“Refundable tax credits can reduce an individual’s tax liability below zero. This is why it should be considered welfare.”
It is very likely that a persons total tax burden could be reduced below zero, and if that does occur at all, it would be a tiny, tiny fraction of citizens.
Is this a case of opposing a program that is a tax reduction for the vast majority of Americans because an insignificant fraction of people could get $500 for free?
Typical conservative thought process, screw the vast majority out of a tax break because a few people might screw the government out of a couple of dollars.
I’d be fine limiting the tax credits to a maximum of the amount of payroll taxes a person paid, but I suspect that this would be administratively problematic and the extra administrative costs would be far more than the amount credited to people who paid less in taxes than they are receiving in credits.
This is just red scare demogoguery, this tax plan is not welfare just because the possibility exists of a tiny number of people getting more back than they paid in.
To RegularRon: Jesus said, “Give that which is Ceasar’s to Ceasar.” Not that I think taxes are great, but taxes are necessary to fund government. I think Jesus recognized the separation of church and state when he said that.
How much evidence do we need? Wake up people before it’s too late! Obama’s change is socialism. This is NOT the CHANGE we want or need. Vote McCain/Palin or face the fact that America as we know it, will no longer exist under an Obama administration.
To loboinok:
My professional writing is not political in nature.
My point was, I think I’m more capable than the average person to take on unfair credit card practices because I know how to write an effective letter and who to send it to. I think most people who get taken advantage of are not able to stand up for themselves in the same manner.
CaptinSarcastic 3:09pm:
You’re talking about SOCIAL SECURITY tax (which is SUPPOSED to be returned to you later in life) and a Medicare tax (which is SUPPOSED to help elderly in need including you later in life). Both are highly socialist in nature. I believe that the IRS examiner was referring to Federal Income Tax. You can call the SS tax and medicare a “Federal Tax Burden” if you like, but the examiner’s point was that low-income families ALREADY have tax protection. We ALREADY tax the rich more heavily than the poor. The first bracket of every individual’s income is tax exempt anyway…and that favors the poor.
The most dangerous thing about a graduated tax is where to draw the line. For a pure socialist there can never be enough redistribution of wealth.
But, not being a socialist I really can’t speak to that. So I will ask the folks that support Obama’s redistribution plans. Where do you guys draw the line? I have heard that Obama would like to increase the top individual tax bracket from 35% to 39% (my numbers might be off, idk). So that’s an (very aggressive) increase of 4%. Is that enough for you guys? Should we increase it to 60%? 80%? 90%? What would be enough for you? A communist would say that there shouldn’t be any wealthy people therefore we should tax them 100% until wealth has been distributed evenly to all people. What? Too extreme for our Obama supporters out there? Many comments here are actually in favor of that. So what number then? When do you stop? You see, that is the problem. Seriously, I’d really like to know how far people think we should tax the rich, please sound off folks – give me a percentage for the top tax bracket and your reasoning!
Also, for the far leftists, please stop denying that you are socialists and just embrace it. Europeans don’t mind being called socialists, it is not a derogatory term – look the word up. Also, Karl Marx’s number one point was wealth redistribution – the idea can therefore be labeled as ‘Marxist’ as well so get over it (some poster was shocked that wealth redistribution was being labeled as Marxist…LOL, at least read the manifesto…)
Speaking of welfare states. Why does Alaska get nearly $2 for every dollar of federal tax its people pay when they have no income tax or sales tax. That’s a welfare state. Gov. Palin is happy to give the state’s oil money back to her people. Gosh, how socialistic of her.
I guess it’s only socialism if the Democrats back it. What is it when the Republicans do it?
Jay, you sound smart. You must be an elitist. That’s bad. Smart is bad. Dumb is good. Me Republican. Republican good.
# Jay on October 27th, 2008 3:08 pm
Sorry, but you’re way off on this. Why not try taking both sides of this? Take a look at some examples that Obama gives on spreading the wealth. Or, if you are going to make a claim that one of our US Senators is a socialist then back it up with some of his socialist policies.
Yes, he wants to change the tax brackets for people so that the wealthier pay a higher percent. But that is called progressive tax
and it’s how the IRS has been working for a long, long time. Obama is not inventing or even attempting to instill this as a new concept. It’s already here. This is how our taxes work, they are progressive. Now, I would guess that if you are paying taxes in the US but aren’t familiar with a progressive tax, than you will probably be better off under Obama’s tax plan as it benefits those in the lower tax brackets. Joe the Plumber clearly wasn’t aware of the progressive taxes which we have based on his quote.
Obama has also mentioned redistribution of wealth in the context of giving tax breaks to companies that hire in the US and not to companies that hire overseas. That is another interpretation of wealth redistribution that I think it’s difficult to oppose (unless you’re wanting to ship jobs out of the country).
Here’s a link for you, I suggest more research on socialism:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008294130_webcampsocialism21.html
Only 62 percent of Americans pay federal income tax, meaning that 38 percent get a 100 percent refund of any taxes withheld. So Mr. Obama’s 95 percent that will receive money from the government includes roughly 33 percent of Americans who pay no income tax. One-third of Americans pay no income taxes yet would receive a government check of perhaps $1,000 or more. That is pure income redistribution.
Obama is merely substituting the IRS for HHS as the check signatory and renaming it a “tax cut.” While virtually all American workers pay payroll taxes (social Security and medicare), the money for the refundable tax credits checks is not actually taken from those two entitlement programs. It may seem like there is some amount of tax liability to “cut” taxes from, but in reality there’s not.
David 4:03pm:
Hahahahaha, go up to Alaska sometime, walk into a local bar and tell those folks that you think they are in a welfare state. Tell them exactly what you posted here and see what they think : ) Wait, No! Don’t! I wouldn’t want to be blamed for your injuries… Alaska is very cold…people in Alaska work for their money my friend.
We should ALL BE VERY AFRAID.
FOrget everything about Obama, forget his liberal tone, his bad associations, his lies, his failure to explain his own history, THIS MAN IS a SOCialIST, he beleives that GOVT should solve all problems, He is a MARXIST, he is not an AMEARICAN Capitalist, but rather beleives in Socialism period. This mans politics will change this country and turn us into a socialistic european country. We will take away Our personal freedoms, he will encourage Unions, and destroy the secret ballot, he will re-create the Secret Police. and Im shocked to say some of his beleiefs are fringing on the Neo-Nazi concepts of society control. This bay is bad for America, and with pelosi and reid Waxman Rangel and Dod, we the average taxpayers are screwed, this is the start of BIG BROTHER
Rev. Wright ads are coming.
Help the cause at
goptrust.com
they need our financial help!
spread the word!
God is going to give us the
victory in this election!
Obama’s parents and mentors were Marxists. Obama’s friends and relatives are Marxists. Obama’s false promises are those of other Marxists. Obama speaks like a Marxist. Obama lies and manipulates like a Marxist. Obama’s false Christianity (based on Black Liberation Theology) is Marxist. How can anyone believe that Obama is not a Marxist?
Marxism multiplies poverty and corruption. Just look at Cuba. By “redistributing the wealth,” the Castro brothers transformed an imperfect but prosperous and happy island into a GULAG of dire poverty, misery and corruption, where the only hope for many is escaping to a free country.
Will the hope of our children be escaping the U.S. to a free country?
donna, please go worship at the feet or “real men” like the Monster Odinga of Kenya, a Marxist relative the Marxist Obama. Or please exchange places with one of the millions of worthy human beings who, while suffering Marxism in one of the Marxist GULAGS (Cuba), yearn for the freedom and democracy you obviously don’t appreciate..
Obama’s campaign strategies, false promises (help the poor) and slogans (CHANGE and YES WE CAN, etc.) are almost identical to those of other Marxists (Chávez of Venezuela, Morales of Bolivia, and Correa of Ecuador) who are ruining their respective countries.
Those strategies are also almost identical to those of his Marxist relative Odinga, “Your Agent for Change,” the Marxist thug who made a pact with the Muslims to institute sharia (Islamic law). Odinga’s followers killed some 1500 people and burned 800 Christian churches, including one with 50 people, many of them children inside. By supporting Odinga, Obama contributed to the massacre. The mainstream media is criminally hiding these facts.
It seems many Americans are just as clueless as the most ignorant Venezuelans, Bolivians and Ecuadorians who believed in CHANGE and YES WE CAN. Now they see that CHANGE means change toward Marxism and greater poverty and corruption. And YES WE CAN means Marxists CAN fool people.
Individuals who have a taxable income of 164,500 will have their marginal tax rate increased from 33% to 36%. So can somebody explain to me how individuals earning under $200,000 will not have a tax hike under a President Obama?
The wealthy over 200K are getting the large tax breaks now. Why do they get the handouts? It is not a ‘re-distribution of wealth’ as much as why not give the middle class the tax breaks instead of the rich? I am no better off when the rich guy gets all of the tax breaks, and I am paying 30%. I think the middle class FINALLY deserves a tax break. The rich people will always be rich, so screw ‘em. As a teaching making 34K a year after five years of teaching, I don’t have any pity for the wealthy. They don’t pay my bills. Tax breaks for the middle class. I am voting OBAMA!
Mike, you are right. Obama is obviosly lying. Obama’s tax proposals are just PROPAGANDA to help him win the White House. They sound great to the uninformed and the envious. As Castro, Chavez and other Marxists have done, Obama is promoting race and class envy and hate.
The “class issue” was one of the strategies of the campaign of Odinga, Obama’s Marxist relative. Odinga’s strategies were almost identical to Obama’s and are also almost identical to the campaigns of lies, manipulation, intimidation and fraud of Chávez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia and Correa in Ecuador. Chávez, Morales and Correa are now dictators who are imposing “socialismo del siglo XXI” (Marxism) in their countries and are working with Islamic terrorists (Iran) against the U.S.
Check the campaign strategies of Obama’s Marxist relative Odinga (for whom Obama campaigned) and compare them with Obama’s:
1. The class issue – “elevate the emotions within all youth….be willing to vote for us in the protest.”
2. The media – “Since 2005, the Orange team has maintained intimate contacts across all media.” “victory in the media war could very well mean victory at the polls.”
3. Viral emails
4. Blogs/web forums
5. Corruption – “Branding the opponent as irredeemably corrupt will provide diversionary slavos” (Note diversionary tactic)
6. The age issue – “Our core supporters are essentially young people”
“billboards and leaflets ridiculing the old people“
“Raila with young people – the promise of a buoyant future.”
(Note “ridiculing old people” The Obama camp has ridiculed Mccain for his age)
7. Ethnic Tensions/Violence as a last resort – “To discourage voter participation in hostile areas.” “Use ODM agents on the ground to engineer ethnic tensions in target areas.” (Note threat of race riots in this country)
Mike
“can somebody explain to me how individuals earning under $200,000 will not have a tax hike under a President Obama?”
Finally a fair question and one that is actually on topic for a change. Here’s a graph. It shows the differences in current taxes paid vs what will be paid according to each candidate and for each bracket.
http://www.coedmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/gr2008061200193.gif
Here’s another that shows 2012 tax changes:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/images/2008/06/12/wsj_tax_chart.gif
And here….this ones funny (at least to me). How much will McCain and Obama themselves save under each others tax policy:
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama-mccain-tax-cuts.JPG
How come when the Republicans policies rob the middle classes wealth and consistently diminish their ability to hold a decent job with a decent wage and the wealth of the top 5-10% increases at hte expense of the other 90-95% as has been the case for many years now, we call it capitalism? When CEO’s are paid 200 times more than their workers for who’s jobs are sent to Mexico, China and India wouldn’t a rational person expect a backlash at some point? Do wealthy individuals really believe that Americans will just lie down and tae this abuse? Why is it that when Americans become fed up with these policies and we want to level the playing field through taxation and putting an end to tax loopholes that the rich currently enjoy it’s called “redistribution of wealth”? Wealth has continually been redistributed in this country. Aren’t price supports to farmers, billions of dollars of bailout to banks asn insurance cos, tax abatements to oil companies etc a redistribution of wealth too? YES. If I have to pay for these breaks then of course it is! As far as I am concerned, Obama’s plan to tax the rich is overdue and thank God the majority of Americans I believe feel the same.
Obama’s campaign strategies, false promises (help the poor) and slogans (CHANGE and YES WE CAN, etc.) are almost identical to those of other Marxists (Chávez of Venezuela, Morales of Bolivia, and Correa of Ecuador) who are ruining their respective countries.
Those strategies are also almost identical to those of his Marxist relative Odinga.
It seems many Americans are just as clueless as the most ignorant Venezuelans, Bolivians and Ecuadorians who believed in CHANGE and YES WE CAN.
Venezuelans, Bolivians and Ecuadorians already found out that CHANGE means fewer and fewer rights and more poverty for the people, as well as much greater corruption under “socialismo del siglo XXI” (Marxism). They have also found out that YES WE CAN means Marxists like Ayers, Obama, Odinga, Castro and Chávez CAN fool people.
sickoflibsBS 4:30pm:
BIG BROTHER has been alive and well since FDR!
Everyone Else:
Obama’s proposed economic policies closely resemble the same, classic socialist economic policy that liberal democrats (and Republicans since Nixon) have been feeding America since FDR. I use the term socialism because that is the proper term – I am not being derogatory. Tax and Spend, tax and spend. Government always knows best, etc, etc, etc. Give us your money and we will “take care of you”. We’ll take care of your defense, your roads, your healthcare, your food, your drugs, your job (or lack thereof), your retirement, your money supply, your car registration, your car’s safety/emissions inspection, your real estate taxes, your income taxes, your sales taxes, your luxery taxes, your gasoline taxes, your corporate taxes, and your “special assessment” taxes. We’ll take care of practically your every need from food, to water, to shelter, to money, abortions, marriages, divorces, children, schooling, public transportation, and we’ll even swoop in and buy electric generators for folks that live on the Gulf coast. Since when have we become a culture of people that expects help with everything? Have we lost the ability to take care of ourselves? More government is not the answer to poor people’s problems. Education is.
The ironic thing about this election is that Obama is touting the same Clintonian economic policies that laid the foundation for the present financial mess (not that GWB helped…). Although he promised tax cuts, Clinton almost immediately raised taxes across the board.
Now isn’t it ironic that the same tax and spend policies that has led to the erosion of American liberty is being touted as “Change we Need”? What is changing? You mean our tax rate going up? You mean MORE government spending? Hasn’t Bush’s rampant spending proved disastrous? Did the “economic stimulus” package from last year work? Will Obama bring the troops home now? His plan is simply to draw up a timetable for departure from Iraq. The US military has already developed an exit strategy for Iraq (albeit after the invasion lol). Of course there is already a timetable – it’s just not published! So Obama’s plan to draw up a timetable changes what? Unfortunately they aren’t coming home anytime soon under either McCain or Obama and Obama’s exit plan (in its present state) will be completely rewritten (if he’s elected) once he takes the time (as president) to meet with the appropriate advisors. It is for this reason and many others that I am baffled daily at the blindness with which Obama’s supporters follow him based on their FEELINGS. I FEEL that we need change too!
When I compare McCain and Obama, I have to say, McCain sure looks like more of same (i.e. white, wealthy, ugly and old). Then there’s Obama and boy does he have a great smile. He’s relatively young, good-looking, intelligent, and can give a great speech. His acedemic credentials are also impressive. So I’m with all of you Obama supporters out there when I say that on feelings alone, Obama would have my vote. Obama LOOKS like someone different and he keeps saying that “Change is coming”. But have you guys analyzed the details of his plans? There is nothing different about taxing more and spending more. And unfortunately, the less educated among us (Which the polls show to heavily favor Obama) have a real tendency to vote based on feelings.
Please educate yourself before blindly voting for someone because they “feel right”. If that person doesn’t share your views WITHIN THEIR PLANS then go find someone to vote for that does. Don’t make the mistake of the millions of Americans who vote for the “lesser of 2 evils”. The lesser is still evil, and that is why Clinton and GWB have led us so far astray. At the very least, please research and consider voting for someone who actually shares your views. I think many of you will find that it is NOT Obama or McCain…
Thank you “CaptinSarcastic” for your example:
*Here’s the math:
40 hours @ $8 an hour times 50 weeks – $16,000
$16,000 X 7.65% SS tax and 2.9% Medicare taxes = $1688 in federal taxes.
Refundable tax credit of $500
Federal taxes of $1688
Tax burden $1188
This a reduction of their federal tax burden, not welfare.
For a family, the tax credit will be $1000, so even if the only income in the family were one income of $10,000 a year, they would still be be paying more in federal taxes than they are getting back.
Not welfare.*
Folks, this is a perfect example of really crappy analysis, or someone simply being a damned liar, you decide.
What he’s trying to sell you is that the INCOME TAX “refund” is going to economically offset the “Payroll Tax”. Never mind that these are very different things, let’s stipulate (i.e. pretend) that the comparison is valid. The claim still falls to the ground because the family in the example still directly reaps the economic benefit from the SS/Medicare later, unlike the money paid for Federal Income tax. That “Payroll Tax” is credited to the account(s) of the income earner(s), and they get it back later. The money they’re “getting back” is, in reality, money that the government has picked form the pockets of their neighbors on their behalf.
It is welfare, and no amount of rationalizing and spinning will change that. The only good news here is that even guys that try to defend it understand that “welfare” is an offensive concept, and they have to sell you on the idea that it’s something else. I can remember a time when they didn’t even try to hide it.
Lloyd, your earlier reference to the scripture passage in which Jesus said “the poor you have with you always” raises a very important point. You and many others cite this passage to justify a particular view of the world and the role of government. You imply that poverty for some is not only inevitable, but also that it is a foreordained natural human condition for some, and in accordance with Divine Will. You imply that it is vain to attempt to reduce poverty through law and regulation. In your view it is not the responsibility of the government, nor the responsibility of any particular person, to reduce the number of those who are poor because they are poor by Divine decree.
Unfortunately for America, your interpretation of this same scripture passage has been put forth over the years to justify capitalistic excesses. If there should be no government intervention to alleviate the sufferings of the poor, should there nevertheless be permissible government interventions aimed at eliminating obstacles to the further enrichment of those already wealthy?
Fortunately, for the poor among us, your view is a misinterpretation of the Bible passage. I appeal to your better heart when I say that is not what Jesus meant. He meant that He would always be seen in the poor. He was about to be condemned to die, and the woman anointed His feet with expensive oil. Complaining that the expense of the oil might better serve the needs of the poor, the disciple had not yet understood as the woman did that Jesus was going to be put to death and that His earthly mission was coming to an end. He was going to be leaving them. Because of His humanity, His friends and loved ones would be left without Him as their beloved Teacher and brother and friend. Nor had the disciple yet comprehended His earlier message, ” what you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.” Because of His Divinity, He was and is really present in each person and especially in the poor. It was for the disciple to learn this divine Truth, to impress it upon him so that understand it and later carry it throughout the world for all time, that He spoke the words “the poor you have always with you.” He was not saying that poverty is a permanent and inerradicable condition for some number or class or group of people. Far from implying that a laissez-faire attitude toward the poor is appropriate in modern economic and political life, His words summon us to ever greater efforts on behalf of the poor.
For everyone talkiing down to socialism look up places-other then canada-that base their system on socialism. They have higher education for all, heathcare for all, and so on. They also have less spending as a result because guess what?! They know how to make it work! We are against socialism in those aspects and yet we are for socialism when it comes to big companies and wall street getting the dough. But thats ok because they “work hard” for the money on wall street. Just because you make big bucks with your job does NOT mean the hamburger flipper works less then you just because they make less then you. Socialism is great for those that have big $$ signs in their eyes; because that means they deserve the wealth. But just because that lower icome worker, that probably works atleats 16hrs a day to make ends meet, doesnt make more then 15,000$ a year doesnt mean we shpould slam the door in his face when it comes down to government aid. The problem is I know there are people in this country who do need aid and dont get it while those big corporations get aid because our country thinks the economy is going to collapse if we just let those companies get bought off by other companies who can keep the doors open. We already are redistributing the wealth-stupid neo-conservative republicans-the problem is we need to redistricute it right from now on. To the people who NEED it; not to the people who think they DESERVE it!~
Kelly – wow… quite the response. I wish your message could get to more people…
I don’t consider myself as an expert of the political arena, so I won’t speak about politics, but are politics really the problem in this country?
It seems to me that something really has to be done about adult education. What I mean is that I wish more people gave a crap about what’s really happening in government – that they would write to their congressmen, reps, aldermen, etc. and voice their opinion. I’ve spoke to too many people who just don’t care… what a shame.
So far what’s worked the best for me is to simply say to your friends – “find out, read, listen to the candidates, form you OWN opinion of them… then get behind them and vote.”
Finally, all the comments about Socialism… It seems to me that a successful society has to walk the edge of a capitalistic and socialistic approach. Doesn’t anyone remember the “Ma Bell” break up? Yes, it may have just been for show, but it was the governments way of saying “um… you know we’re still in charge, right?”
In order to be successful, you have to have a higher power checking and balancing… Don’t you think it’s our job as Americans to put the right people in that higher power?
Powerful words, Marie, thank you.
Also, I finished my college degree with 3 children, and a husband who is 100% disabled, I now have a bachelor’s in nursing, and it was the best decision I’ve ever made. My family was using food stamps, and “below poverty level” according to stats, before becoming an RN. I’ve worked sooo hard to get where I’m at. Please don’t take what I’ve earned, to give to someone who, has the same options I did, but chooses to stay where they’re at!!!
Hi Billy 6:08pm,
Lots of venom toward Palin, wow. I have been reading Salon.com (I get a lot of laughs) and noted a whole bunch of feminists that have your same viewpoints and also share your obviously deep hatred for Palin. Are you, by chance a female Billy? I continue to find it so facinating that the moment a woman (who isn’t Hilary) is in the race for the White House she is immediately branded by the liberal fembots as an, wait, how did you put it, oh, a “walking-talking-living-breathing sespool” and everything that she does, or has done is evil. I have looked closely at her bio – it looks strikingly similar to that of every other politician’s bio that I’ve read – the difference? She pretty much went straight to the top. Maybe you should mix in some facts with your opinions. The trouble is, if you don’t mix in some facts, people don’t take you seriously…
You said, “Speaking as a middle-american I spit on your appeal to those pieces of sh*t. VOTE OBAMA! and kick the middle-american a**holes back to their failing states.”
California was the first state to line up for the Federal government bailout. See that was a fact. Now, here comes my opinion (although many would say it’s fact): California is the most liberal of all states in the union. So if the most liberal state in the union was going bankrupt prior to the Federal government’s bailout, why is it that you say that the states of middle-America are to blame and are failing?
Ok, let’s try again, here’s the fact: Proportionally, Democrats were more in favor of the bail-out package than Republicans. And, my opinion: There is no REAL difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Fact: Lobbyists lobby BOTH PARTIES AT ONCE. Opinion: There is no REAL difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.
Also, you said, “But thats ok because they “work hard” for the money on wall street. Just because you make big bucks with your job does NOT mean the hamburger flipper works less then you just because they make less then you.”
Both of your above points are true. But consider this: I worked for Arby’s fast food a long time ago. Every hour that I worked over 40 hours in a week I was paid overtime (1.5 times my regular pay). Arby’s didn’t like to pay me overtime therefore I rarely worked more than 40 hours in a week. Now I work in financial services (not on Wall St.) and I work about 55 hours a week (sometimes a lot more) but I only get paid for 40 hours a week regardless. I don’t get overtime. In fact, practically no one in financial services gets overtime. So I have to do my job for the same amount of money regardless of how many hours I work. In case you didn’t know, those folks that work on Wall St who make the big bucks LIVE on Wall St. They work 60+ hours. Those CEOs making millions each year get paid that much because they get results. If you had the ability to be the CEO of a Fortune 100 company, you would expect to be compensated for it. What you fail to understand is that only a very, very select few even have the ABILITY to run a Fortune 100 company. Could you do it? I sure as hell couldn’t. And if GE were to fire their CEO and offer to pay their new CEO a mere $200,000 a year, they would be out of business within a year because no qualified executive would CEO GE for that. Although it is certainly not pure – CEO compensation contracts are determined through supply and demand.
It sounds to me like you are suggesting that we fix each person’s salary to a fixed amount (i.e. everyone makes the same wages). If that happens, I’ll be the first to go back and get my job at Arby’s. In fact, rather than the high-stress drive-through, I’ll insist on working the fryer!!!
Sorry, one more thing: If you are seriously working 16 hours a day and only making $15,000 a year, go to McDonald’s and get a job there. Obviously someone has taken advantage of you because you’re only making an effective $3.61 an hour… our minimum wage is MUCH higher than that.
Never mind the fact that socialism doesn’t work and never has.
It works just fine in Western Europe.
infullview on October 27th, 2008 9:34 am I’m a social libertarian. I can’t believe anyone would be dumb enough to have have an anti-civil rights web site like this!
Welcome to the world of the GOP’s base.
Billy 6:17pm,
Here is a video of Bill Clinton blaming his party for the crisis. It’s from his lips, what more do you want?
http://vodpod.com/watch/1033567-bill-clinton-lays-blame-for-financial-crisis-on-fellow-democrats
Clinton has admitted regret for some of his policies during his Presidency. He has further admitted that those policies MAY have contributed to the financial crisis of late.
You misunderstand me if you think that I am blaming anything exclusively on one person or one political party. Your response is actually so full of rhetoric (look the word up in the dictionary) that it didn’t really justify this response…and yes that pun was intended : )
You said, “Those of us, who hate Bush and the failed policies that administration has put into place during the Nixon, Reagan, Bush1 and sonny Bush and then would be pres McCain, were told that “its our president so go away if you dont like it”” Ummmmmm, OK.
You definitely seem to hate republicans regardless of who they actually are and I would imagine that you blindly pull the democrat lever each election because of your deep hatred. At least they are not republicans right? But have you actually examined the differences between the candidates themselves? You haven’t mentioned any of them… You’ll probably disagree with me on this but, not all republicans are alike. Not all democrats are alike. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE THAT DON’T BELONG TO ONE OF THE 2 BIG PARTIES. Before you blindly pull the lever, make sure you agree with each of those people’s plans…
And no I do not support McCain/Palin as all of my posts here prove…
Steve 7:54pm wrote,
“infullview on October 27th, 2008 9:34 am I’m a social libertarian. I can’t believe anyone would be dumb enough to have have an anti-civil rights web site like this!
“Welcome to the world of the GOP’s base.”
While I am not a member of this site, and do not condone anything that this site says or does, I believe this is an anti-ACLU site. That does not necessarily mean that the site is anti-civil rights. The ACLU is an organization NOT the civil rights themselves. Furthermore, the ACLU is actually considered by many to hinder the protection of Americans’ civil rights rather than help them. There are legitimate arguments from both sides, but “infullview”’s comments are indicative of ignorance. Please educate yourself.
“I am ready for some politicians that are ready to work for their country and not for what the lobbiest are going to put in their pockets and pork belly spending, get real or get unelected!”
And Obama’s 143 days in US Senate are better than McCain’s 23 years of Naval service? We want yet ANOTHER president that hasn’t had the military experience command the greatest military in the world? We see how well that worked for Clinton when the USS Cole was bombed refueling in Yemen. And before the comments start about 9/11 and Bush….the plans had to have started for that before he took office, just common sense there. But I forgot, this election isn’t about common sense, it’s about trying to make everybody feel warm and fuzzy about themselves. Can’t please everybody, Barry, go back to Chicago and fix it first…then take on the nation.
McCain called for the exact same plan in 2000:
“Yet few of the McCain reforms, as valuable as they are in isolation, meet the overarching goal of marginal rate reduction. The jewel in the McCain crown is the expansion of the 15% bracket. This is a marginal rate reduction for the narrow category of people who would now pay a top rate of 15%, where they formerly paid 28%. But it is no help at either the bottom or the top. By tinkering to favor this income tax and that social objective, the McCain plan implicitly assumes that money is the government’s to distribute. The rhetoric Senator McCain has chosen to drape over his plan makes this even clearer. Indeed, in the biggest omission of all, Mr. McCain leaves intact the 39.6% top rate instituted by Bill Clinton with one-vote majorities in each house in 1993.”
source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB947715614502103961.html?mod=googlewsj
WAKE UP PEOPLE, SMEARING OBAMA AS A MARXIST IS A DISPERATE DISTRACTION FROM FROM A LOSSING CAMPAGINE!!! When you pay taxes and the gov’t spends the money on roads,dams,schools,hospitals,etc. Or gives corporations and the wealthy tax breaks. That IS re-distributing wealth!!! From George Washington to George Bush, government has always re-distributed wealth. This is just another smear and fear tactic from a lossing campaign, don’t take the bait. To question the patriotism of ANY US Senator serving his country is just plain wrong!!!
Steve 7:44pm wrote:
“Never mind the fact that socialism doesn’t work and never has.”
“It works just fine in Western Europe.”
That is why Europeans continue to immigrate to the United States in numbers that are MUCH larger than the Americans that emigrate to Europe, right? Because people like to pay 40-80% income taxes. Nah, it’s the weather!
Is that also why many of the richer Europeans (there are obviously so few because of socialism… wait, are there really that few?) fly to the US for healthcare? Or do you deny that our doctors, medical facilities and medical technology are the best in the world?
Is that also why, to remain competitive with the USA and the dollar that European countries have been forced to ban together to form the European Union and even use the same currency? I don’t know about you, but I’m glad that the American dollar is the American dollar and not shared by Venezuela, Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, etc. Argentina especially has a nasty history of bad economic policy…
Ohio Voter 8:27pm:
“To question the patriotism of ANY US Senator serving his country is just plain wrong!!!”
OMG! Quite the contrary, questioning the patriotism of US Senators and Congressmen/Congresswomen is every constituent’s DUTY to his/her country. What you hint at is blindly believing what a Senator says just because he/she is a Senator.
My God man, you’ve actually scared me with that comment. I honestly hope that your opinion is not shared by many. Let there never come a day when the American people trust a person just because they are in the Senate! I mean, are you serious? Wait…Ohio! Just made the connection and now I get it. You guys re-elected GWB in 2004. You have a history of trusting a person just because they are in office…my bad, now it all makes sense…
That is EXACTLY the point of the governmental process that the founding fathers set up for us…That it is our DUTY AS AMERICAN CITIZENS TO QUESTION our government. It’s why we have checks and balances (Leg., Exec., and Judic. branches) so that no one can just TAKE OVER and run everything. But APPARENTLY, our founding fathers were wrong when they made the constitution…at least that’s what Obama said in the 2001 radio interview. Question though….
HOW IS OBAMA GOING TO SWEAR TO PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND SOMETHING (the U.S. Constituion) HE THINKS IS SO TRAGICALLY FLAWED???
Ohio Voter on October 27th, 2008 8:27 pm
WAKE UP PEOPLE, SMEARING OBAMA AS A MARXIST IS A DISPERATE DISTRACTION FROM FROM A LOSSING CAMPAGINE!!! When you pay taxes and the gov’t spends the money on roads,dams,schools,hospitals,etc. Or gives corporations and the wealthy tax breaks. That IS re-distributing wealth!!! From George Washington to George Bush, government has always re-distributed wealth. This is just another smear and fear tactic from a lossing campaign, don’t take the bait. To question the patriotism of ANY US Senator serving his country is just plain wrong!!!
Here’s the deal, he’s talking about the strategies used by the Civil Rights movement in focusing specifically on the courts instead of building a legisltaive coalition or caucas to address other issues, mainly economic. He states the Warren Court was not “that radical” being that it would have been a radical intepretation of the Consitiution and assertion of power by the Court to do it. The “essential constraints” is not a criticism but a recognition of the importance of the separation of powers that exists between the branches of government and the Court staying within those constraints of power. Moreover, he recognizes the extension of civil liberties by the Warren Court to be in line with what the drafters of the constituion had in mind. He then offers a conservative criticsm of the Civil Rights movement: they focused too much on the courts and not enough on the legislative process! This focus is the “tragedy.” Redistribution is/could be economic initiatives, social programs, business incubators, enterorise zones, tax credits, jobs and education training. Granted, many conservatives don’t like these types of ideas….but, clearly, this is not the great exposition of Socialism you think it to be.
Ohio Voter 8:27:
“From George Washington to George Bush, government has always re-distributed wealth.”
I suppose you could say that…BUT Federal income tax (the vehicle for Obama’s redistribution) didn’t exist in George Washington’s day. In fact, Federal income tax didn’t really exist until 1913 (though there was a temporary income tax during the War of the States). I also found this interesting fact from Wikipedia:
“In 2007, the richest 5% of Americans paid over half of federal income taxes. Forty percent of Americans pay no federal income tax at all although it is the government’s largest revenue source.”
Here is the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States
And here is the source quoted from the Wikipedia article: Babington, Charles (Associated Press) (October 22, 2008). Spreading the wealth? U.S. already does it. Burlington Free Press.
Ok so do you think that the rich folks are in the 40% that don’t pay taxes? Hmmmm, I’ll bet not – the IRS likes to get their $$$… So if the top 5% pays more than half of the income taxes in this country, what’s your argument? Should the top 5% pay all of the income tax then? We have been redistributing the wealth since 1913! Look at that wikipedia article – there have been periods in the 20th century when the top tax bracket was 92%!!! 92%!!! OMG can you imagine if you got to take home only 8% of what you made above the bracket cutoff? What incentive would you have to make that kind of money? Furthermore, according to that Wikipedia article, the current bottom tax bracket (the tax rate that low-income folks are most concerned about) IS THE LOWEST IT HAS BEEN SINCE 1941.
Ok, lets redistribute the wealth…..but I would like to be led by example….so who does that put in front of me to lead???? Sure isn’t Obama is it? I don’t want my money supporting people on welfare…while I have understanding and sympathy for people who have lost their jobs, and just need some help, I have been there done that myself. I have a huge issue with people who have no pride in themselves, and make their life occupation as a welfare recipient. If they want a better life then maybe they should go out and earn it, just like I do. When Obama can put his money where his mouth is, then, maybe I would consider him. You all are screaming and complaining about what a crappy job President Bush has done, well, please explain to me what HE has done that is so horrible? Did he not defend this country when we were attacked? Who wanted him to go to war? If I remember correctly, the majority of the United States. No, it is sad that people have had to lose lives. But, you are all making a mockery of the job they are doing over there. But, in the end, I would rather the war be there, rather than over here. Obama keeps promising change, change, change. Well, how is he going to change the economy. A president does not create jobs, businesses create jobs. Oh, I know, lets create some more worthless government jobs. A president does not write a bill/law and pass it. It takes the house and congress to approve them doesn’t it? Everyone is screaming that Bush has created this windfall we are in…..why can’t you all place the blame where it belongs? How about the greedy investors, and investment banks. Who is walking away from their job with millions in their pocket? Who loaned the money for these houses that are being foreclosed on? Who is the ones responsible for what happened to the price of fuel? Does Bush have a magic little button that he pushes and all of this happens as a result? I could care less what the candidates color is. There are good as well as bad in every race. Get off of the race card. Its getting old. Maybe more people should do their research. All I can say is I voted for McCain/Palin. For all of you that votes for Obama, ask yourself, you want a president that would stand by the foreigners in this country, before he would stand by an American???????? That is a quote out of his own book. (I just didn’t type it word for word, look it up on facts.com) Then so be it, none of you are going to change your mind so all I can say, is if he gets voted in, I do not want to hear ANY of you moaning and crying about a thing. Think about something else, about 2 years ago is when everything started going downhill. Why ask yourself. Surely it didn’t have anything to do with voting in a democratic controlled house and senate…….
Obama is a Marxist. I grow up under communism i know a RAT when i “smell” one.
Get REAL MAN!!!
jmzemmer, are you part of the 20% approval rating for Bush?
It’s true that there are several causes for the economic failure and it is not entirely the fault of Bush. But here’s one point for you to consider, when the economy was failing Bush did manage to put the money back into the pockets of the greedy investors who caused the failure by creating a “bailout” package and rushing it through Congress the same way he rushed the Patriot Act through. The “bailout”, by the way, is a very socialist package. Capitalist profits and socialized los And guess who gets screwed.
Since this topic is about taxation. You should all take a look at McCain’s tax plan before condemning Obama’s. His plans to extend the tax cuts of George W Bush which target the wealthy in hopes that the wealthy will use that extra money to create jobs. McCain was one of the few Republicans who voted against the Bush tax cuts twice. And he was right to do so. But now, after there is plenty of evidence that the cuts didn’t work, he wants to extend them? Anyone know why he wants to do that? I can’t figure it out.
Jay, you need to stop and think about something yourself, the bailout package was voted for mostly by who? ALL of Congress had the opportunity to read it and either vote for it or not. Maybe if CONGRESS was so smart they would have put some kind of a clause in there themselves about exactly HOW the money should have been used and by who. You do realize that we have Nancy Pelosi leading us there????? Tell me that she doesn’t have the clout to sway a vote? Oh, I know, when it all fails, such as it is doing now, this will be everyones excuse…..BUSH rushed the vote…..congress only approved it on his say so…….hmmmmm sound familiar? I will say, yes, I do support Bush. I am human enough to admit that he has made mistakes. Who in this world is absolutely perfect? I don’t agree with everything, I just am simply sick and tired of EVERYTHING being blamed on him. I could care less if my taxes were raised if at this point it would help this economy…..and I am saying that as a small business owner. My problem is continuing to give to people who will not help themselves, and keep crying because they do not make more. If they want a better life, then as I said, do what I did and first off get some pride, then find out what you can do to help yourself to be better, and work long, hard, hours to try and achieve it. Quit demanding a handout. And, I will say, I do not think as a small business owner who is struggling to stay afloat, I should be fined if I simply do not have the money to provide everyone of my employees with health insurance. Right now I carry insurance on TWO employees, and I pay over $700 dollars A MONTH. I have tried to get insurance for ALL of my employees, and if I did that, then I would definitely have to close my doors. Oh, thats right, McCain will tax health insurance for the first time ever…….gosh, he must have already gotten elected in as president because this year my employees started being taxed on insurance……..wow………
JUST SOUNDS LIKE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION TO ME -.-
FAIL
“Socialism is Christian” ?????
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you the order: “Whoever doesn’t want to work shouldn’t be allowed to eat.”
I have to realize that the source of most problems we face in this country is ourselves.
1) The current credit mess is not simply due to greedy banks, its our fault too. We are constantly spending money on things we know we can’t afford. Average credit card debt is $3,000. People took out mortgages they knew they would have a hard time paying back.
2) The current health care mess is also our fault. We are not a health conscious country. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cirrhosis, and COPD are just some examples of unnecessary diseases that are draining our health care system. People have to take responsibility for their own health to a greater degree. One can’t smoke 2 packs a day all his/her life and then expect the government to pay for 3 inhalers and oxygen tank for the rest of your life. One can’t ignore dangers of obesity and expect the market to pay for treating your hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease.
The other problem is that we are wasting money on necessary procedures; a great example of this is the 90 year old person getting a coronary catherization for abnormal EKG but no other symptoms. Or what about the endless amount of CAT scans ordered for acute appendicitis. Do you know why all these expensive and unnecessary tests are order? Doctors and hospitals are scared of being sued. Higher malpractice has ruined the way medicine is practice. And why is this happening? Because we are all spoiled and love suing others for money. I was helping a friend once carry something of his and it accidentally fell onto my foot and cause a big bruise. First thing out of his mouth was how much am I going to sue him for. This mentality is incredible.
American’s need to stop playing victim and become acquainted with an interesting concept: self-responsibility!
This could hurt Obama, because the truth is complicated and most voters don’t have time for complicated explanations:
As Obama said BEFORE the clip you focus on–the place where “redistributive” is defined: “One other area where the civil rights area has changed… is at the state level you now have state supreme courts and state laws that in some ways have adopted the ethos of the Warren Court. A classic example would be something like public education, where after Brown v. Board, a major issue ends up being redistribution — how do we get more money into the schools, and how do we actually create equal schools and equal educational opportunity? Well, the court in a case called San Antonio v. Rodriguez in the early ’70s basically slaps those kinds of claims down, and says, ‘You know what, we as a court have no power to examine issues of redistribution and wealth inequalities. With respect to schools, that’s not a race issue, thats a wealth issue and something and we can’t get into.”
Mark Barr:
You’re quoting old testament pal. The word “Christian” comes from Christ. Show me something like that in the new testament–the Christ part of the Bible. You know, something like fitting a camel through the eye of a needle.
I just read about this scandal on the Washington Post.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/10/obamas_redistribution_bombshel.html
I’m referring, of course to the latest Republican scandal of misusing this interview to smear Obama. I’d care more, but like most Americans I have Republican Scandal Fatigue.
Employer-sponsored health insurance is exempt from federal income and payroll taxes, which induces employers to substitute health coverage for wages. The current health insurance tax exemption favors higher income individuals. Under the current law the average health benefit tax expenditure (tax dollars saved by having employer health insurance tax exempt) is $2,780 for families with incomes of $100,000 or more per year, but only $102 for families with incomes of less than $10,000 per year. Replacing that with a $5,000 refundable tax (what McCain wants to do) credit would favor lower income families more than higher income families. As is obvious by the above numbers, the McCain tax credit for the purchase of health insurance exceeds the value of the current exclusion for all income levels.
The other problem with the current system is that the tax preference are widely believed to have encouraged employers to provide more comprehensive coverage than they otherwise would have done, resulting in higher levels of health spending. This leads to over consumption of health care relative to other goods and services for those taxpayers with qualifying plans, and very expensive health care for taxpayers in the individual market.
It is important to remember that taxes for employers are based on their net income, which is defined as revenues less the costs of doing business, including materials costs, wages, pensions, health benefits, Social Security taxes (the employer share), and other labor-related costs. Thus, health benefit costs to the employer are subtracted from revenues along with all other costs of doing business to arrive at a net income figure that is then subject to the tax. In other words it doesn’t make a difference to the employer whether they spend 10k in wages or in health insurance because in either case the 10k would be deducted from the employer’s taxable income.
A simple example: Lets say Joe is earning 40k and the employer pays 10k for Joe’s family health insurance. Because Joe is earning 40k, he is in the 25% tax bracket and thus saves 2.5k of taxes that he would have otherwise payed if employer-based health insurance was not tax-exempted. Under McCain’s plan, employer-based health insurance would be taxed and Joe’s employer would instead spend the 10k on wages rather than health insurance. However, under McCain’s plan, Joe would also receive a 5k refundable tax credit that would be used to directly purchase health insurrance that is best for his family. Joe’s family saves 2.5k!
YOU. PEOPLE. DON’T. DESERVE. DEMOCRACY.
(Look at my country. I should know what happens when people miserably fail to see what’s best for them because they can’t get past IDIOTIC prejudices. Social democracy is the new thing because IT WORKS (NOT communism, NOT socialism, CERTAINLY NOT “bolivarian socialism”. Just a union of the best aspects of different systems). Thats why the euro and the pound are worth more that the dollar.)
also:
Marie: you are the smartest, most logical person on this site. I love you. You are exempted from my previous comment
So this turned out to be a fraud as well.
Here’s a fact: both John McCain and Barack Obama support the same man, Warren Buffet, to be the future Secretary of the Treasury. Obviously Warren Buffet, a financial genius who was named the richest man in the world by Forbes, would not support any socialist, Marxist, etc. Yet, out of the two candidates economic plans, he supports Barack Obama’s over John McCain’s. Now, Republicans reading this might say that Warren Buffet must not know anything about economics, but then why does John McCain trust him? Because Warren Buffet knows what he’s talking about when it comes to economic and financial issues. This fact bears repeating: The man whose economic judgment John McCain trusts enough in order to have him lead the US in all of its financial matters supports Barack Obama. Pull whatever soundbites you will, but this fact alone proves that Obama is not a socialist and that McCain doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
I know what the Republicans are afraid of. They’re afraid Obama is Robert Mugabe lite, taking away wealth and property from those who have earned it and giving it to landless, undeserving people. They’re just afraid to say it because they’re afraid of being accused as racists. Well let me do them a favor and say it for them, then give a rebuttal that does not accuse them of being racists because they raise a legitimate point.
Taking property, especially land and giving it to those who did not earn it is a recipe for disaster. You can see the type of state Zimbabwe is now and look at its crashing dollar. Moreover, you can look at Robert Mugabe’s basic misunderstanding of the economy, that he can print more money to pay his debts, and shake your head in amazement.
Now, does Obama believe in wealth redistribution to the extent which it would damage the economy? That is the real question, whether or not his policies would hurt and harm the economy. Rather than risk being called an advocate of class warfare, I will go to an idealistic, even naive view of the American citizen which has been too forgotten by past administrations: the American dream.
The American dream is far more than the trifecta of house, jet and boat. It is far more than moving from one income bracket to another. It is more than futile arguments about a flat tax or the constitutionality of the Income Tax. It is the essence, the core of the American spirit, that all men are created equal but *need not stay equal*. It is an affirmative rather than negative philosophy: rather than punish failure, success is rewarded and citizens are expected to act in their own best interest which will in turn forward the best interest of the country.
Now back to Robert Mugabe lite. Does Obama want to give people who do not deserve it a hand up? It certainly appears so, if it were not for the threat American corporations currently pose to the American dream. Outsourcing to other countries, hoarding of wealth rather than loaning it to those who deserve it or investing it (this is what the bailout was trying to address) and bonuses and severance packages to executives who scam their own companies threaten the very fabric of American society. “All men are created equal” has a very literal possible translation: no matter if a person is born in the projects or in the suburbs, every American citizen should have the opportunity to realize his dream.
In other words, Obama is not interested in fixing the game like Mugabe and those ilk. He’s interested in making sure every American starts with all the chess pieces. He sees the American dream under threat, and his solution is a booster shot to those beseiged by bills and debt.
This is a far cry from socialism, and isn’t anywhere close to the doomsday scenario which McCain so desperately tries to paint in the last days of his mismanaged campaign.
I have been unable to access the original interview with the link in the YouTube video: http://www.wbez.org/audio_library/od_rajan01.asp or the link in your article: http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/audio_library/ram/od/od-010118.ram. (attempted to access 10/29/08, 7-8:30am)
But I think it is clear, even from the partial transcript you have posted above, that Obama was making factual statements about the Court and its limits, not advocating for an expansion of those limits. I agree that he was clearly advocating redistribution of wealth, but his point was to pursue this redistribution through organizing and legislative change “on the ground,” not in the courts. Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton’s explanation was accurate.
What I keep hearing is “Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!”
Try really researching not only history, but the real voting record. Listening to the media and following blindly is foolish. Neither candidate is going to highlight thier shortcommings.
Brian,
A very intelligent response. Enjoyable to read.
Here are some of my concerns. The Obama family made over 4 million last year. His tax documents show that he gave less that 1 percent to charity. ($4,000)
My Family made under 65,000 last year and gave ($8,200) to church and charity.
For me to believe that he wants to fairly distribute wealth to benifit America, he would have to practice what he has been preaching. He himself is in the top percentage and does not give. How can he think that it is fair, or even right, to make others give.
As to redistribution of wealth equalling taxes, that is a good spin. What sickens me is seeing families that do not pay taxes, or pay minimal taxes recieve tax returns for more than they have paid in. That seems more like stealing than sharing.
Torn,
One fact alone does not make a platform.
It is definately possible that regular citizens do not understand economics as well as Mr. Buffet. Having his support, Mr. Buffets that is, does not change the character of the man Obama. I am not afraid of his policies. I doubt that congress will pass anything that takes money from thier pockets. My concern is more directed to his moral standing because he would represent America. There are intelligent people on both sides of this argument. The foolishness of telling either side they are idiots for believing differntly.
First of all, this sounds completely faked. Go ahead, spread it around Fox News, no one will believe it, because everyone knows that those fools are all right wing nutjob conservative spinners. Common knowledge, people.
I’m sick of hearing everyone calling Obama a Marxist/Communist. I’ll bet that 9/10 of you people had no idea what the ideas of Marxism was until this election. Now everyone is a self-described genius in the topic.
Marxism’s theory was that wealth would be spread equally to eliminate social class. Now, anyone with a brain would understand plain well that this is impossible for America, especially considering how polarizing Reagan and Bushs’ policies have been.
Also, his plans state that taxes will be increased for the wealthy. No cuts or money will be supplied to the poor or middle class. Also, has everyone left out the middle class in all this? If we keep up the current policies, than there will no longer BE a middle class.
Frank,
And, there are ignorant fools out there. How do you explain the skinheads that attempted to assassinate Obama, or the recorded West Virginian’s obvious racism towards Obama?
All,
One more thought are to consider.
Look at the success of Chicago. Their tax rate, their national school standing, their budget deficit issues and really think about the next statement.
Even with both senators and all representative being of the same party, He was unable to fix the problems of one state. How can we believe that his monumental plan will work for all 50? I know that it takes working together with all parties to make a change. This in not a blame game for all of Chicago’s issues on Mr. Obama. The point is that if he was unable to persuade the leaders of Illinois to make changes that benefited the target market of his current plans, how can we believe he has the ability to persuade all of congress to make the same type changes?
Jenni,
There are ignorant people everywhere. Those children/young men, 18 and 22, deserve full prosecution for their plans. Consider that people of their belief are an extrememly small percentage of America. It would be unfair to claim that the the entire opinion of every West Virginian matches these two people. Also, there was no “attempt”, just foolish plans. Even in their own words both men did not even believe that they would be succesfull. It is unfortunate that this form of hate still exists in America, and that it exists in all races.
Since I am not of the opinion that these two men had I would not venture to explain their motivation.
Frank,
I don’t mean to say that Mr. Buffet’s support for Obama is all that is needed for people to vote for him. I am merely using it as evidence against the allegations that Obama is a socialist and that his policies are somehow attempting to undermine capitalism. That was what this article aimed to do and so I was responding solely to that attack.
I myself do not see any problems with Obama’s moral standing. He certainly has not sunk to the lows of associating his opponent with terrorists, accusing him of voter fraud, and naming him a socialist. As for Obama’s moral standing in the eyes of the world, this BBC poll (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7606100.stm) shows that Obama is favored 4 to 1 by a group of 22 countries. Having many relatives in Europe myself, I have found Obama to be the overwhelming favorite among them and others whom I have spoken with. Make of this what you will…I can post some more sources pertaining to my point if you would like.
As for your comment about calling people on the other side idiots, I’m not sure if that was directed at me or not. If it was, I had no intention of doing so. I have many friends who are Republicans, and we have great discussions about politics. While I would never attack the entire Republican party, I do feel that people who make unfounded accusations about Obama being a terrorist, anti-Christ, communist, etc. are dangerous, to say the least. This causes some voters to vote based on these fallacies instead of the actual issues, and undermines the very idea of democracy.
P.S. – It’s “Tom”, not “Torn”
Tom,
Sorry for the miss print.
My comment was not directed at you, as I recall I was complimentary of your post.
I would disagree that the “other party” is associating Obama with terrorists. I believe that Mr. Obama associates himself with terrorists, and it has been revealed to an unbelieving crowd.
I don’t doubt that he is favored in Europe by 22 countries. How many of these “favoring countries” are democracies?
Hey, we can all disagree about which path to take. As I see it, we each have one vote.
“unfounded accusations about Obama being a terrorist, anti-Christ, communist, etc. are dangerous, to say the least.” I would agree with the “unfounded” part. The issue I have is that when associations are document, or “founded” that they are brushed aside as irrelevant. Most people are able to discern that what Ayers accomplished when Obama was Eight(1969) is irrelevant. However, to dismiss his relationship with Ayers from 1995 to present as being as irrelevant as when he was Eight seems deceptive.
Has everyone posting here read the entire “Blueprint For Change” to see if they personally agree with it?
Frank,
It is true that Obama has worked with Bill Ayers on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which aimed at increasing funding for public school programs in Chicago. However, if you claim that this is evidence that Obama is himself a terrorist, would you also imply that the University of Illinois, Northwestern University, and Harvard University are ‘terrorist’ universities because presidents and deans from those schools also sat on the same board? Or that the Chicago Tribune is a ‘terrorist’ newspaper because its publisher has the same ties to Bill Ayers that Obama does (sitting on the board)? The claim that Obama has terrorist ties because of his involvement on the board simply does not hold up. Would you accuse Sarah Palin of being a radical because her husband (whom she has had much more contact with than Obama has had with Ayers) was part of an organization that’s goal was for Alaska to secede from the USA? If not, then please refrain from making any such claims about Obama. Obama is not a terrorist and he has no ties to Bill Ayers other than sitting on a board that helps children in Chicago. Also, in response to a person at one of his rallies in the past couple of months saying that he would not feel safe with Obama as president, McCain himself said that Obama would make a fine president and that there is no reason to fear him. McCain obviously does not think that Obama is a terrorist or else he would not have said this.
Also, here’s the list of countries that the BBC poll found to favor Obama 4 to 1: Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Egypt, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Kenya, Lebanon, Mexico, Nigeria, Panama, the Philippines, Poland, Russia, Singapore, Turkey, the UAE and the UK. Is each one a democracy? No. But, at the same time, I would not venture to say that their opinion of the US is inconsequential. Many of those countries are allies whose bonds we would not want to shatter, and they seem to feel that Obama would better preserve our ties with them than McCain would. Again, this fact alone is not intended to be a be-all-end-all for Obama, but just to give some idea of what the world thinks about the candidates.
Thanks for the kind words Rachel and roxfromvenezuela.
I try to stay informed by reading and turning off the television. We as Americans are too consumed by Pop Culture.
Congratulations! Rachel on becoming an RN. I am proud of you and I know your family is as well. I hope no one ever takes away your hard earned accomplishments.
I hope next year I can get back to college at least part-time to finish my degree. I had to work two jobs the last 3 years to get rid of some debt I had acquired in my late teens and early 20’s. I had to learn about credit the hard way, I didn’t have any direction from my parents about money and debt. No bail outs from the government or family. I now have one job and I am now at peace financially, but not rich by any means. I appreciate what I have and live within my means.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many Blessings To All.
Tom,
The work done on the board was definately done to better the life of children.
Being on a board designed to better Chicago does not constitute being a terrorist. This is the same argument Obama defenders say frequently.
Educated, informed debators understand that this is a falled position. You would imply that if I disagree with Obama I must think that these other leaders must all be terrorists? That falls into the strawman arena and I wish that I could say I’m shocked by it, unfortunately this same personal push is used continually to goad people into emotional responses instead of logical ones.
The problem comes from Mr. Obama himself denying any close relationship with Ayers, and let me add that his relationship with Ayers is also only one point, saying continually that he rarely saw him and so on. Later when proven that he saw him almost weekly, these findings were dismissed as pure fabrication. Once a relationship has been established, or proven, we are expected to believe that Mr. Obama chooses to spend his precious time with people who do not share his beliefs. Maybe that would be true if it were just Ayers but the list of people he associates himself with, that have supposed differing opinions, is a very long list.
Frank,
Sorry for taking so long to reply. First off, I would like you to read my previous post again. I said that if you believe Obama is a terrorist simply because he was on a board with Bill Ayers, then you must also believe that those other people are also terrorists. You are free to disagree with him about any of his political stances, and that is perfectly acceptable. The world would be a boring place to live if everyone shared the same opinions. However, you cannot call Obama a terrorist for sitting on a board with Bill Ayers unless you are willing to call those who did the exact same thing terrorists as well. This is not a straw man argument, as I am not saying that the entire Republican party believes Obama is a terrorist and therefore their opinions are wrong. Instead, I am saying that they can attack any of Obama’s actions or policies as long as they are prepared to treat equally the people who share those policies or who have committed the same acts. Obama sat on a board with Ayers. So did the presidents and deans of many universities. If Obama is guilty of terrorist behavior because he sat on that board, then the logic follows that the presidents and deans must be guilty of the same charges.
As for the other meetings between Barack Obama and Bill Ayers, Obama has admitted to working with Ayers on the board, which was the only contact they have ever had. You are free to accuse him of more meetings with Bill Ayers, but take a look at this article from FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html). It says that, after investigations had begun into the relationship between Obama and Ayers, only “half a dozen or so more meetings” were discovered than were previously known, and all of them were again in meetings through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge; as we know, Obama has already admitted to working with Ayers on that board. Also, the article goes on to say that McCain, not Obama, is the one who “lied” about Obama’s connections with Ayers. There is no proof that Obama began his political career in Ayers’ living room, no proof that Obama was working on a ‘radical’ education project, and no proof that Obama had any sort of ‘friendship’ with Ayers. Obama has called Ayers’ actions both “detestable” and “despicable”. Believe what you will, but there is no more connection between Obama and Ayers than the board that they served on.
And what is this long list of people with “differing opinions”? He’s rejected Reverend Wright. Meanwhile, Palin is being anointed by a witch hunter and married to a man who wants America to have 49 states. And call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure that McCain’s good friend President Bush has hurt America more over the past 8 years than Wright and Ayers combined could ever have possibly done. Why don’t you seem to care so much about those connections?
As someone born in Ecuador with friends and relatives in Latin America, I’m terrified watching how people in the United States are being manipulated just like people in Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador to put a Marxist in power.
The similarities between Rafael Correa’s campaign for president of Ecuador and that of Obama for U.S. president are amazing. Correa had no experience but was young, charismatic and had good speaking skills. Correa’s slogans were the same as Obama’s: CHANGE, YES WE CAN, etc.
Informed Ecuadorians were not able to convince their clueless compatriots that Correa was a fake and not the young and wonderful savior the media was portraying. They could not compete in ads with the millions Correa had (mostly from unknown sources).
Once he took over, Correa dissolved Congress and took control of the legislative and judicial powers. In other words, he became a dictator. Ecuadorians are poorer than ever. The CHANGE has been toward Marxism and greater poverty for all.
It’s now obvious that Correa works with Chávez and terrorists AGAINST Ecuadorians and the United States.
Most informed Ecuadorians, when they realized the similarities between Correa and Obama, felt confident that Americans could not be fooled as Ecuadorians had. However, it seems many Americans are as clueless as the poorest and most ignorant people in Ecuador or Bolivia.
I hope it’s not too late and Americans realize that Obama is a Marxists with ties to Islamic terrorists, just like Castro, Chávez, Morales, Correa and Odinga.
By “redistributing the wealth,” the Castro brothers transformed an imperfect but prosperous and happy island into a GULAG of dire poverty, misery and corruption, where the only hope for many is escaping to a free country.
Will the hope of our children be escaping the U.S. to a free country? To where could they go?
How can anyone believe that Obama is not a Marxist? There’s NO DOUBT that Obama is a Marxist. Obama’s parents and mentors were Marxists. Obama’s friends and relatives are Marxists. Obama’s false promises are those of Marxists. Obama speaks like a Marxist. Obama lies and manipulates like a Marxist. Obama’s false Christianity (based on Black Liberation Theology) is Marxist. How can anyone believe that Obama is not a Marxist?
It seems many Americans are just as clueless as the most ignorant Venezuelans, Bolivians and Ecuadorians who believed in CHANGE and YES WE CAN. Now they see that CHANGE means change toward Marxism and greater poverty and corruption. And YES WE CAN means Marxists CAN fool people.
Are Americans already brainwashed and ready to elect a Marxist who hates America?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1
People have been given sips of the koolaid for such a long time that combined with apathy, most of them don’t realize what’s going on. Few have read the Constitution or the BOR and only go by what they are told, not always accurately.
I hope the republic is strong enough to withstand someone like this. It withstood many other less-than-stellar Presidents.
Antonio,
I’m not sure you understand what a ‘Marxist’, the phrase you keep slinging about in your posts, actually means. People claim that Obama is going to redistribute the wealth so that everyone has equal or close to equal income. There is not one piece of truth in that statement. I do not believe in Marxist or socialist policies, and I would never vote for any person who did. However, I support Barack Obama because I believe in his plan, which is far from Marxist, socialist, or any of the other tags that the McCain campaign has attempted to stick to it. President Bush gave huge tax cuts to the wealthiest of the nation while not changing the taxes on the poor at all. All Obama wants to do is remove those tax cuts instead of giving them even more tax cuts, which is what McCain proposes. Bush’s tax cuts obviously didn’t help the American economy, and I honestly doubt that increasing those tax cuts (which is what McCain suggests) will help. If you think trying strategies that failed in the past will produce a different outcome the second time around, you are in for a rude awakening.
Again, not being a true master of the economy, I defer to the expertise of Warren Buffet and other economic experts. It is very likely that Warren Buffet knows more about the American economy than any other person; that is the reason why both McCain and Obama support him to be Secretary of the Treasury. As Buffet supports Obama’s plan over that of McCain, I think it is safe to say that we don’t have to worry about Obama’s plan destroying our economy, unless you think that you know more about the economy than Warren Buffet. For Frank, who said that Buffet should not be the be-all-end-all for the economic issue, it might interest you to know that economists across the country support Obama 2:1 and the Economist magazine endorses Obama. Again, do with these facts what you will, but people who actually know about economics and don’t just listen to McCain’s attack lines support Obama’s economic plan over McCain’s. If you question Obama’s strategies, read the Blueprints for Change (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barackobama.com%2Fpdf%2FObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf&ei=moILScfHMqKqev6×9asE&usg=AFQjCNEYoMvgPepoexFJqm6R8dGKajLqnA&sig2=PPGHkXPfIWRDcsEJbrOZtQ) and read what Obama plans to do instead of believing every lie McCain spits out.
Also, for those who claim that Obama and his fellow Democrats are socialists, I suggest you take a look at what socialism entails. It means that the government is directly involved with businesses. And, in case you have already forgot, both President Bush and John McCain, two prominent Republicans, supported the bailout plan that had the government directly involving itself with many of the US banks. That is as close to socialism as you can get.
Barack Obama is not a socialist, Marxist, communist, etc. His economic plan involves going back to previous strategies that helped the US economy grow, whereas McCain suggests continuing the current strategies that have lead to our current economic crisis, the very crisis that has brought the US one step closer to socialism. If you fear socialism, then why would you support the same strategies that have so far only lead to increased government involvement in businesses? If, however, you want to see the US economy rebound and escape its current deficit, if you want to see more jobs created and small businesses grow, if you want to stop worrying about whether you will lose your job or be able to retire, vote for the candidate with the strongest economic plan, Barack Obama.
This might also interest many of you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ZGnM2oku8
KING: “You don’t believe Barack Obama is a socialist, do you?”
MCCAIN: “No.”
Watch it for yourself. McCain accuses Obama of many things (which he either greatly exaggerates or plainly contradicts facts), but he clearly states Obama is not a socialist. Argue what you will, but the Republican candidate acknowledges that Obama is no socialist.
See transcript here:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgmpz5bc_2gfggbmv4
Barack Obama – The Marxist Mole
Planning to Bring About Communism in America
Angelina Lazar commenting on AIM Report and Accuracy in Media Editorial.
This is HARD CORE READING for my Real Readers AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FACTS for my American Voters. McCain MUST WIN as THAT is the BEST BET Americans and Canadians have of fighting the New World Order (right now), Communism, Fascism, a Military Dictatorship and Martial Law in an unfolding North American Union – God Almighty Forbid!
Obama admitted a relationship with someone publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama’s life as a “secret smoker” and how he “went to great lengths to conceal the habit.” Why, guys? – Only because it’s cocaine.
But what about Obama’s secret political life? Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.
In his books, Obama admits attending “socialist conferences” and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridiculed the charge of being a “hard-core academic Marxist,” made by his 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes from whom he stole the election with more voter fraud.
The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Frank Marshall Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But in his book, Dreams From My Father, he refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.” Again, hiding his communist agenda and communist associations. A mole is a mole cause they hide. They’re an implant. And that’s Obama, mark my words!
Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What’s more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.
Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that “Frank” was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.
Obama’s communist connection adds to mounting public concern about a candidate who has come out of virtually nowhere, with a brief U.S. Senate legislative record, to become the Democratic Party frontrunner for the U.S. presidency. Decades ago, the CPUSA had tens of thousands of members, some of them covert agents who penetrated the U.S. Government. It received secret subsidies from the old Soviet Union.
You won’t find any of this discussed in the David Mendell book, Obama: From Promise to Power. It is typical of the superficial biographies of Obama now on the market. Secret smoking seems to be Obama’s most controversial activity. At best, Mendell and the liberal media describe Obama as “left-leaning.” Folks, he’s not just left-leaning, he is a hard core Marxist, and their candidate. I told you, the secrete plan the past 100 years has been to implant communism in America, and to do so without a revolution. Some minds have been seriously at work in this regard, who are secret society members. And they figured they could just usher obama through and fulfill their agenda. So yes, hillary was right on that: he was pitched softball questions throughout the entire campaign, all up until the eve of the election when Barbara West let Joe Biden have it! And God, in His Infinite Mercy, allowed the truth to seep out, with barely a fortnight left to voting day.
In Obama’s book, Dreams From My Father, he writes about “a poet named Frank,” who visited them in Hawaii, read poetry, and was full of “hard-earned knowledge” and advice. Who was Frank? Obama only says he had “some modest notoriety once,” was “a contemporary of Richard Wright and Langston Hughes during his years in Chicago…” but was now “pushing eighty.” He writes about “Frank and his old Black Power dashiki self” giving him advice before he left for Occidental College in 1979 at the age of 18.
This “Frank” is none other than Frank Marshall Davis – the black communist writer. Frank joined the American Communist Party during the middle of World War II—even though he never publicly admitted his Party membership,” states John Edgar Tidwell, Professor at the University of Kansas, and an expert on the life and writings of Davis. So Davis taught Obama to hide. And boy, does he! And ALL HIS RECORDS along with it! He is a SNEAK. A mole! Just look at his smoking habits. Well, he’s got A LOT MORE THAN THAT TO HIDE!
The communists knew who “Frank” was, and they know who Obama is. Professor Gerald Horne, a contributing editor of the Communist Party journal Political Affairs, talked about it during a speech last March at the reception of the Communist Party USA archives at the Tamiment Library at New York University. The remarks were posted online under the headline, “Rethinking the History and Future of the Communist Party.”
Horne, a history professor at the University of Houston, noted that Davis, who moved to Honolulu from Kansas in 1948 “at the suggestion of his good friend Paul Robeson,” came into contact with Barack Obama and his family and became the young man’s mentor, influencing Obama’s sense of identity and career moves. Robeson, of course, was the well-known black actor and singer who served as a member of the CPUSA and apologist for the old Soviet Union. Davis had known Robeson from his time in Chicago.
As Horne describes it, Davis “befriended” a “Euro-American family” that had “migrated to Honolulu from Kansas and a young woman from this family eventually had a child with a young student from Kenya East Africa who goes by the name of Barack Obama, who retracing the steps of Davis eventually decamped to Chicago.”
It was in Chicago that Obama became a “community organizer” and came into contact with more far-left political forces, including the Democratic Socialists of America, which maintains close ties to European socialist groups and parties through the Socialist International (SI), and two former members of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), William Ayers and Carl Davidson.
The SDS laid siege to college campuses across America in the 1960s, mostly in order to protest the Vietnam War, and spawned the terrorist Weather Underground organization. Ayers was a member of the terrorist group and turned himself in to authorities in 1981. He is now a college professor and served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago. Davidson is now a figure in the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS), an offshoot of the old Moscow-controlled CPUSA, and helped organize the 2002 rally where Obama came out against the Iraq War.
Former congressional investigator Herbert Romerstein, an expert on communist activities, said most of the members of the CCDS came out of the CPUSA, where they functioned as stooges of the Soviet Union until the fall of that dictatorship. He said it has “a close working relationship with the Stalinist remnants in the former East Germany, now called the Party of Democratic Socialism.” Romerstein said these were the people who ran the concentration camps and the Communist Party apparatus in East Germany. No wonder Obama spoke in Berlin, East Germany! That was foreshadowing things to come…
Another figure in the CCDS, Leslie Cagan, is an organizer of anti-Iraq War demonstrations through a group called United for Peace and Justice. Romerstein also cited evidence that after the 9/11 terrorist attacks Cagan organized the first meetings to plan opposition to any United States military action against those responsible.
Both communism and socialism trace their roots to Karl Marx, co-author of the Communist Manifesto, who endorsed the first meeting of the Socialist International, then called the “First International.” According to Pierre Mauroy, president of the SI from 1992-1996, “It was he [Marx] who formally launched it, gave the inaugural address and devised its structure…” And please note, the Communist Manifesto is embedded in the U.N. Constitution, and their sinister plan is to bring about a New World Order, and part and parcel of that is to bring America under communism to control the free-est people on earth and bring them to their knees. The only candidate, indoctrinated from his earliest years in hard core communism, and to learn to hide that fastidiously, the sneak and mole and scammer that he is, is BARACK OBAMA!
In addition to Tidwell’s book, Black Moods: Collected Poems of Frank Marshall Davis, confirming Davis’s Communist Party membership, another book, The New Red Negro: The Literary Left and African American Poetry, 1930-1946, names Davis as one of several black poets who continued to publish in CPUSA-supported publications after the 1939 Hitler-Stalin non-aggression pact. The author, James Edward Smethurst, associate professor of Afro-American studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, says that Davis, however, would later claim that he was “deeply troubled” by the pact.
While blacks such as Richard Wright left the CPUSA, it is not clear if or when Davis ever left the party. However, Obama writes in Dreams From My Father that he saw “Frank” only a few days before he left Hawaii for college, and that Davis seemed just as radical as ever. Davis called college “An advanced degree in compromise” and warned Obama not to forget his “people” and not to “start believing what they tell you about equal opportunity and the American way and all that [b.s.].” Davis also complained about foot problems, the result of “trying to force African feet into European shoes,” Obama wrote.
For his part, Horne says that Obama’s giving of credit to Davis will be important in history. “At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack’s memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis’ equally affecting memoir, Living the Blues and when that day comes, I’m sure a future student will not only examine critically the Frankenstein monsters that US imperialism created in order to subdue Communist parties but will also be moved to come to this historic and wonderful archive in order to gain insight on what has befallen this complex and intriguing planet on which we reside,” he said.
More Confirmation
Dr. Kathryn Takara, a professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of Hawaii at Manoa who also confirms that Davis is the “Frank” in Obama’s book, did her dissertation on Davis and spent much time with him between 1972 until he passed away in 1987.
In an analysis posted online, she notes that Davis, who was a columnist for the Honolulu Record, brought “an acute sense of race relations and class struggle throughout America and the world” and that he openly discussed subjects such as American imperialism, colonialism and exploitation. She described him as a “socialist realist” who attacked the work of the House Un-American Activities Committee.
Davis, in his own writings, had said that Robeson and Harry Bridges, the head of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) and a secret member of the CPUSA, had suggested that he take a job as a columnist with the Honolulu Record “and see if I could do something for them.” The ILWU was organizing workers there and Robeson’s contacts were “passed on” to Davis, Takara writes.
Takara says that Davis “espoused freedom, radicalism, solidarity, labor unions, due process, peace, affirmative action, civil rights, Negro History week, and true Democracy to fight imperialism, colonialism, and white supremacy. He urged coalition politics.”
Is “coalition politics” at work in Obama’s rise to power? Trevor Loudon, the New Zealand-based blogger who has been analyzing the political forces behind Obama and specializes in studying the impact of Marxist and leftist political organizations, notes that Frank Chapman, a CPUSA supporter, has written a letter to the party newspaper hailing the Illinois senator’s victory in the Iowa caucuses.
“Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle,” Chapman wrote. “Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary ‘mole,’ not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through.” Again, remember, that Obama refuses to show ALL his records: birth, college transcripts, clients at law firm, dissertation, marriage, etc etc etc. He wants to leave no tracks. He is a sneak. A most definite “mole”. A Marxist Mole. And the biggest African scammer this nation has YET SEEN!
OBAMA’S SECRET SOCIALIST CONNECTIONS
Obama’s socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the “champions” of “Chicago’s democratic left” and a long-time socialist activist. Obama’s stint as a “community organizer” in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.
Blogger Steve Bartin, who has been following Obama’s career and involvement with the Chicago socialists, uncovered a fascinating video showing Obama campaigning for openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Interestingly, Sanders, who won his seat in 2006, called Obama “one of the great leaders of the United States Senate,” even though Obama had only been in the body for about two years. In 2007, the National Journal said that Obama had established himself as “the most liberal Senator.” More liberal than Sanders? That is quite a feat. Does this make Obama a socialist, too?
DSA describes itself as the largest socialist organization in the United States and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. The Socialist International (SI) has what is called “consultative status” with the United Nations. In other words, it works hand-in-glove with the world body. Here you go, folks! Here is WHAT I’ve been telling you!
The international con-nection is important and significant because an Obama bill, “The Global Poverty Act,” has recently been rushed through the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, with the assistance of Democratic Senator Joe Biden, the chairman, and Republican Senator Richard Lugar. The legislation (S.2433) commits the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars more in foreign aid on the rest of the world, in order to comply with the “Millennium Goals” established by the United Nations.
Conservative members of the committee were largely caught off-guard by the move to pass the Obama bill but are putting a “hold” on it, in order to try to prevent the legislation, which also quickly passed the House, from being quickly brought up for a full Senate vote. But observers think that Senate Democrats may try to pass it quickly anyway, in order to give Obama a precious legislative “victory” that he could run on.
Howard Dean’s Socialist Ties
(Chairman of the ‘Democratic’ Party in the U.S.)
Another group associated with the SI is the Party of European Socialists (PES), which heard from Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, back in 2006. Dean’s speech is posted on the official Democratic Party website, although the European socialist parties are referred to as “progressive.” Democrats, Dean said, want to be “good citizens of the world community.” He spoke at a session on “Global Challenges for Progressive Politics.”
Following up, in April 2007, PES President Poul Nyrup Rasmussen reported that European socialists held a meeting “in the Democrats HQ in Washington,” met with officials of the party and Democratic members of Congress. The photos of the trip show Rasmussen meeting with such figures as Senator Ben Cardin, Senator Bernie Sanders, officials of the Brookings Institution, Howard Dean, and AFL-CIO President John W. Sweeney, a member of the DSA. The Brookings Institution is headed by former Clinton State Department official Strobe Talbott, a proponent of world government who was recently identified in the book Comrade J as having been a pawn of the Russian intelligence service.
The socialist connections of Obama and the Democratic Party have certainly not been featured in the Washington Post columns of Harold Meyerson, who happens not only to be a member but a vice-chair of the DSA. Meyerson has praised convicted inside-trader George Soros for manipulating campaign finance laws to benefit the far-left elements of the Democratic Party. Obama’s success in the Democratic presidential primaries and caucuses is further evidence of Soros’s success. Indeed, Soros has financially contributed to the Obama campaign.
It is not surprising that the Chicago Democrat, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, has endorsed Obama. Schakowsky, who endorsed Howard Dean for president in 2004, was honored in 2000 at a dinner sponsored by the Chicago chapter of the DSA. Her husband, Robert Creamer, emerged from federal prison in November 2006 after serving five months for financial crimes. He pleaded guilty to ripping off financial institutions while running a non-profit group. Before he was convicted but under indictment, Creamer was hired by the Soros-funded Open Society Policy Center to sabotage John Bolton’s nomination as Ambassador to the U.N. One of the claims made against Bolton was that he had yelled at somebody 20 years ago. The allegation was made by a specialist in “recovered memories.” After his release from prison, Creamer released a book, Listen to Your Mother: Stand up Straight: How Progressives Can Win, described by one blogger as the book that was “penned in the pen.”
In addition to writing the book, Creamer is back in business, running his firm, Strategic Consulting Group, and advertising himself as “a consultant to the campaigns to end the war in Iraq, pass universal health care, change America’s budget priorities and enact comprehensive immigration reform.” His clients have included the AFL-CIO and MoveOn.org. In fact, his client list reads like a virtual who’s who of the Democratic Party, organized labor, and Democratic Party constituency groups.
Creamer’s list of testimonials comes from such figures as Democratic Senators Dick Durbin (Ill.) and Sherrod Brown (Ohio), Harold Meyerson, MoveOn.org founder Wes Boyd, and David Axelrod, a “Democratic political consultant.” Axelrod, of course, is much more than just a “Democratic political consultant.” He helped State Senator Barack Obama win his U.S. Senate seat in 2004 and currently serves as strategist and media advisor to Obama’s presidential campaign.
Based on: AIM Report | March 18, 2008
Editor, Accuracy in Media
http://www.aim.org/aim-report/is-barack-obama-a-marxist-mole
Ok, Guys, this has been my beef with the Canadian Action Party, too, as I kept commenting: they call themselves socially progressive, but I kept noticing communist-leaning tendencies, which was extremely bothersome, and of which, they were not aware.
People need to become educated in political party systems and economics to understand things in order to vote, and yet, there is no emphasis on this!
Also, black Americans have a welfare mentality through and through, and so, of course, 96% of them back barack. They are a drag on the U.S. economy with that type of thinking, and inaction, and I assure you, I have seen it throughout America. It’s a ‘we gotta’ get back at the white-man’ hidden attitude and agenda, they carry deep inside of them, never letting the cat outta’ the bag, but it is common knowledge amongst them, and the basis of their deepest bond and commitment to each other.
I am not a racist, God Almighty forbid. I deplore for anyone to think they are supremacists: whether it be jews, whites, secret society members, reptilians, aliens… you name it… It is GODLESS and is the CAUSE of ALL HUMAN SUFFERING on Planet Earth!
I am merely trying to SHOW you the INNER WORKINGS here, of which average Canadians and Americans are totally OBLIVIOUS to.
After this, we must continue to build what is known in America as the Ron Paul Revolution.
And Canada will need to become a Leader first time in history!
More on that later…
God Bless & Enlighten
In Jesus’ Name,
Angelina Lazar
Defender of Human Rights & Peacemaker
Canadian Citizen & Patriot
Friend of America
World Humanitarian
Angela,
Lets just say that you are correct. Then how in the world is Obama able to be in such a position to win the election.
The simple reason is that Bush led us into a war in Iraq that was unnecessary, ill advised, ill planned, and ill executed. Once there Mission Accomplished was declared as American soldiers were very much still in harms way.
Not enough planned led to severe shortages of bullet proof vests, vertually no heavy armor personel carriers.
And the war in Iraq took away our ability to fight in Afghanistan. And with a weakened Iraq, Iran was able to gain influence.
OK. The is the pickle we are in thanks to an president who could not lead us to the correct path, and a republican party that was too eager to follow.
Let’s just say that what you have said is correct. SO WHAT. WHO CARES???
Colin Powell does not care. Warren Buffett does not care. So I do not care.
The American people are so tired of the hate and fears that the republicans an radicals have used to try and stay in power.
Enough!
Fellow democrats please don’t vote for Obama! Doing so will pave the way for Palin 2012! I’d rather have Palin as VP than as president. Carter led to Reagan and Clinton led to Bush. Obama will lead to Palin!!! McCain is a moderate republican, while Palin is a right wing extremist. McCain has moved to the right only to get the conservative base behind him. I predict if elected he will go back to the McCain that aggravated conservatives. McCain will make Palin useless! He is merely using her to get the conservative vote. So as a democrat who fears a Palin era, I will be voting for McCain.
the previous post is absurd. WHAT IF something were to happen to McCain? then we would have Palin in 2009, or 2010…
you dont think that a President Obama could defeat Palin? Of course he could.
or Biden could defeat Palin?
or Hillary WOULD defeat Palin?
what you said was absurd
R.I.P. America
July 4th 1776 – November 4th 2008