The Deep Relationship Between Obama and Ayers
Posted on October 18, 2008
We’ve all heard that they served on the same committees and boards, and the media yawns at this. However, if only they would dig just a little they would find that things are deep even just below the surface.
In 1997, Obama gave Ayer’s book rave reviews!
….and Obama and Ayers shared an office together for 3 years!
A little more than crossing paths huh?
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, Elections, Fraud/misrepresentation, Journalistic Malpractice, Liberal Media/Bias, Marxism, News, Socialism, terrorism
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175 Responses to “The Deep Relationship Between Obama and Ayers”
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Did Obama really use the word “searing” in that review?
That’s grounds for automatic termination of his candidicay. What trite POS.
Heh. I’ll bet Ayers wrote that review for Obama.
What I don’t understand, and maybe I’m just being thick, is WHY the MSM is so in the tank for this guy and why they’re allowing such a blatant trampling of the “democratic process” by deliberately suppressing damaging information about him, at the same time manipulating “evidence” against McCain (and especially PALIN). All of this with the apparent blessing of the FEC…. Is it truly that EASY to buy an election in modern times? And if so, why was Ross Perot beat so hard over “trying to buy” the Presidency, when it’s OK for Barry? Is it because Barry’s “black” and Ross is just another rich old white guy? I mean, I like to consider myself educated in these matters, but I just really can’t see the logic behind all of this.
Angie, of course you don’t understand *why*, because it just ain’t so. You can’t accept that a 3-decades-ago radical (what kind of quaint “terrorist” doesn’t kill people?), who is now widely recognized as a pillar of the community, is *not a threat* and to the contrary is a *good person*. You don’t understand because it’s not the MSM in the tank for Obama, it’s you in the tank against Obama and Ayers. You can’t see it, because you *are* it.
Angie, you’re right.
Bill doesn’t understand that in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama and Ayers wasted $161 million of other people’s money on Ayers’s radical “school reform” theories and the Chicago public schools showed no improvement as a result. If they’d simply distributed the money directly to the schools for reading, math, science, and the like, I’m sure it would have been a much different story.
Obama’s years as chairman of CAC demonstrate that he’ll happily pursue hard-left agenda items with other people’s money even in the face of a very serious problem. In the case of the current economic situation, Obama will happily raise taxes to “spread wealth,” and he’ll gladly send $845 billion to the UN for his Global Poverty Act.
Angie, more accurately, you can’t understand the problem because in objective reality there is no problem to see; the “problem” of the MSM not being interested in Obama’s connection to Ayers only exists in your internal, subjective world. But you’re sure not alone – lots of people WISH that Obama was evil so that people would vote against him, and FEAR that he’s evil because they recognize he’s going to be the next president.
He’s not evil. He’s far less socialistic than FDR. He’s intelligent, deliberate, and thoughtful, a perfect replacement driver when Bush has driven this country so hard into the ditch. Obama is not only our best hope for getting out of the ditch, he’s proof and symbol of America finally getting past race-based divisions.
Relax. You’re not going to die. They’re not going to take your gun and your money. It’s Bush that eavesdrops on, imprisons and tortures innocent people, not the Democrats, and particularly not Obama, who is more than a passing constitutional scholar. Your life will go on with increased, not decreased, freedom.
Your party has had the Presidency for 8 years, and Congress for 12 of the last 14 years. Let somebody else have a turn. Admittedly, Bush has proved that a bad president can do far more harm than anybody believed possible, but Obama can’t be worse than Bush. If you’re one of the 18% of people who still think Bush is a decent president, I rest my case about the problem being in your head, not in the MSM.
Sam, The point of a challenge is to try things, isn’t it? And Annenberg isn’t giving out tax money, but their own. Do you now want to regulate how foundations spend their money? As for the amount of money and whether it was wasted, only the most “in the tank” would accept your claim without details and context.
I believe both of you are die-hard Republicans and wanted to ignore the economic problems of this country by promoting this notion that Obama has terrorist connections. I used to like John Mccain and was inclined to vote for him but his ideas is still very Republican and we need a change of direction in the situation that we are in today. Maybe you guys believe that this country is still fundamentally strong economically speaking. Do you?
Let’s see if I have this straight–The US Senate cites John McCain for ‘poor judgement’ regarding the Keating scandal. John McCain counts convicted felon Gordon Liddy as a friend, John McCain has direct ties to a woman who advocates killing MD’s who perform abortions, and has associated with a convicted domestic terrorist in Florida who bombed the offices of people who disagreed with his radical Cuban politics—and some people point fingers of outrage at Obama? How many crimes has Bill Ayers been convicted of? Oh-that’s right-ZERO
I have met Sarah Palin and she is a pleasent person to talk with, but she simply isn’t prepared to take over the oval office.
Angie, I’m going to agree with Bill. Obama isn’t getting a free ride in the press. Imagine that he and McCain where the same age, and it was Obama, not McCain that had served in a supportive role with General Singlaub operating the Central American death squads that killed thousands of innocent men, women and children. Imagine that it was Obama that was lying about resigning from that council when it became obvious what they were doing. Imagine Obama trying to deny his past when convicted crimminal Elliot Abrams (that had been overseeing American activities in Central America at that time) was still a financial supporter, advisor & personal friend. (By the way, it was Abrams “Truth in Public Policy” group that made up most of the “facts” about Ayers & Obama.) All this is true of McCain, not imaginary rumors like that doofus ex-wanna be Ayers, but actually undeniable facts. If this was Obama not McCain there would be a tidal wave of press coverage on it.
McCain would be OK as president, but Obama could be really great and we need him to undo the Bush devestation. By the way, did Chicago schools improve drastically when Bush had all three branches of goverment in his control?
Yes, Dan that is the way a large segment of the Republicans think. Dirty tricks so when can ignore the issues.
I had my mind made up to vote for Obama until i got a real sense of what the mindset is of the Democrats when Western Pennsylvanians were called racists. So now if you are from Western Penn. and you are going to vote for anyone other than a minority you are a racist? What a load of crap.
The Democrats arent an inclusive party. They are using the old class warfare communist ideology gambit.
It is about time, Mcain/Palin stopped their negative campaign to show maturity.honesty and integrity.
JillS
Republicans are character assassins! Why cant they see the light? I mean….who doesnt want $1.00 per/gal gas, free health care, a great economy, free education for college kids? All at the expense of those greedy rich people! Spread that wealth i say:)
The Republican party will do and say almost anything at this point because it really looks as though they will lose this election. So they are trying to do the same thing the Bush admin. has done, which is play on people’s fears. The Bush admin got in there and misled the American public about supposed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, as a reason for our country to go to war. Now its the “Obama hangs around with terrorists” speel. Only this time it seems the majority of Americans are not allowing themselves to be fooled by it.
Thank goodness.
I guess the bloggers for the new ‘messiah’ Obama are in full force this AM…..
Fact- Liddy was never convicted of violence, never said he wished he would have bombed more sites, or stood on american flag as Ayers did (and is unrepentant of it all).
I hope if Obama (who everyone thinks will solve all the world ills) turns out to be as ineffective, indecisive and incompetent as Jimmy Carter, everyone will realize experience matters.
It will also prove the fact that most Americans are ignorant (I wish we could give a basic IQ test as a requirement), evidenced by the fact that 3 black men said they agreed with Obama on his policies, not his race (and then agreed with statements that were just the opposite of Obama, including that Sara Palin was a great selection for his VP).
I guess “Stupid is as stupid does” and we in the end will get what we deserve in Obama and be relegated to the history books. (BTW for all you I Biden fans, I did say this was a quote and didn’t take credit for it myself). Once the MoveOn crowd, the MSM and other marxist groups take over the US we will all be sorry- one just hopes we can do it with the Dumocrats controlling most legal and political machines within the individual 50 states.
I guess we get to rename what a terrorist is if it suits our needs- name me one violent act Liddy committed against a group of Americans……..
Jerry, I lived in western Pa for over 18yrs I am niether black or white, i am hispanic and was looking from the outside in,I’ve seen and experienced many racist things from people of the area. I even heard a few different people say that they would rather die than to get organs from a black person (Gov. Casey’s transpant)so I am going to assume you are white from western pa and are blind to it. I agree that its a load of crap if you are called racist for not voting for a minority, but i’m sure you agree that many people from the area will not vote for a minority regardless of what party they are in.
These Marxists are hard headed little bunch, The fact whether he was convicted or not ,Ayers is Still a Terrorist, A unrepentant terrorist. Even if he is a professor, a dangerous one.Cubans,Americans, Whomever, if they bomb they are terrorists. Radicals.
That will never wipe the fact, However, this has been one of the most manipulated elections, (Obama,Msm,ACORN,marxists) We will all be sorry the day we all must Work hard in the Fields(Fidel did that to his people he promised change) And Ride Bicycles thanks to Stupid Ideologies.(Spread the Wealth).
To all the losers out there wanting a
free ride- get off your butts and earn
your OWN money! Don’t take mine! Obama will “give” “95%” of Americans a tax break, right? However, duh, 95% of “Americans” don’t pay taxes! So, a small percentage of law abiding, hard working Americans are supposed to hand out money to all of America? Illegal aliens and all the other losers out there who don’t put any money in? Just sit around and have some more kids they can’t support.
Yeah, let’s give government checks out
to crack heads and let them buy more
crack! Or how about those who will gamble it away at 24 hr. casinos, or those that will… um’ you get my point. Meanwhile,those who are getting
their money stolen from them will stop
shopping at real stores, buying stocks,
and buying real estate. That will help the economy. Oh yeah, also, let’s stop putting
the money where Bush did- on our Nations
Security- yeah, that’s a great idea! Hell
yeah- I want MY money going to secure our
Nation, not to you losers! Wow, the dumbing
down of America has really worked! Anyone
voting for “that one” is a real idiot.
My response is to anna.Who is really “greedy”? The person who works hard to earn a large sum of money or the individual who wants to be given everything for little to no work. I think most people would agree that many corporations as well as most amercians have become greedy. Your statement proves that point. Most of these “greedy” rich people get rich by convincing sheep such as yourself they need to purchase a product of service to be happy.
You know, I get a kick out of the Republican party. First they say that the Democrats are the people who raise taxes and spend the money. Look at reality folks, Republicans spend the money we don’t have, take us from surplus to a deficit. Give money away in the Billions to bail out the wealthiest people in the world, Both individuals and Companies, while driving us deeper into a deficit and recession. Gee, let me see here…..vote for 4 more years of the same old stuff or look for a change.
Also, the Republicans are more then ready to go after someone, anyone that stands in their way. They will LIE, CHEAT and SLANDER no matter what, AND if you try to do the same back to them, then you “throw mud”.
Lord help you if you go after Sarah Palin, she is a woman and a mother…OMG we can’t go after her. I don’t know If she used her influence in Alaska to get her ex Brother in Law fired from his job, I know the temptation would have been there. GW did it enough times down here in Texas. However, she doesn’t display the knowledge needed to be the President (let’s face it, she would be if McCain died), and I don’t think she has the emotional Maturity for the Job.
Ah well, we will argue this point until the cows come home, I will vote for who I want so will everyone else.
Hey John R. well said. Bravo !!!
Alberto,
You could be right about people not voting for a minority regardless of party affiliation.In fact im sure there are lots of people like that who are white, black, hispanic, etc. Im not like that though and im sure there are more just like me. So you can imagine how infuriating it is to hear that outta Rep. Murtha. More than that if the Democrats want to make real inroads in Western Pa. then they dont need to be using the race card.
Jerry
To Tara
First, I applaud your views. I also work hard for my money and don’t want what taxes I have tossed away. I also believe in a strong defence for this country as well as being able to project a strong offence when needed.
Let’s face facts folks, NO MATTER WHO WINS in NOVEMBER, we are going to have a tax increase of some sort! IT HAS to happen, our economy is not strong enough to pay for the bail out of the HUGE deficit that we have now that is ONE of the contributing factors in driving down the value of the dollar.
Also, for all those who think that all the illegals need to go home and that they are here for a “FREE” ride and don’t pay any taxes….get a grip. As a person who lives in a border state (Texas), what I know is that the Illegals working here put money into the tax rolls every day by spending money (sales Tax), They put money back into the local and state government and into the local economy. Do I wish that they were here Legally? Yeppers, because that way the federal taxes that are actually taken out of their wages would be paid to the Federal government.
BTW Tara, do you know how much money you get for welfare and food stamps? If you did, you would know that they VAST MAJORITY of people on Welfare do not want to be there. Do not look at the sensational headlines and draw a conclusion, look at reality before doing that. I know that you will now rant and rave at what an idiot I am and you are entitled to that opinion as I am mine.
RFBorjal is right. Know who else looks into past associations to cast suspicion on innocent people? Totalitarians. That’s why we have a justice system where EVIDENCE of wrong doing must be presented. Not the suspicion that some wrong doing may occur at some point in the future because of a past relation. Does everyone think Obama and Ayers sipped coffee at their local Dunkin Donuts and discussed what targets to bomb? What facets of the government to destroy?
I’m not sure where now but I read a blog that was condemning Ayers and had a list of radical quotes from him. The last one which was supposed to be real hard-hitting, I assume, basically said that providing health care to all our citizens is a responsibility. Sound familiar?
Or would you prefer children or their parents die from simple illnesses because they don’t have a health care plan to cover their inoculations and we’ve taken away all government programs to help less fortunate people?
“NoBama”? “Dumocrats”? Has it just come down to name-calling now? Is that supposed to be clever?
Derek,
You are a Republican i take it. Hum oh well…most of these good Democrats in here will tell you just like im telling you that its time to spread that wealth. Personal achievement and wealth are not real important now…its all about COLLECTIVE PROSPERITY NOW. In fact in the future i dream of (beginning with an Obama Administration)you will see much collective effort….in business (administered by our central gov.), collective housing, not just government run healthcare but more importantly healthcare monitoring for such sins as smoking and so forth so no one person is a drain on the system. Well i could go on and on but im sure some of my friends in here can and will back me up on this.
Anna
Ray is right! We should arrest all the school administrators and teachers because they must be up to something… trying to reform our schools, trying to give our kids a better education. They’re crossing a line.
On “spreading the wealth”… Let’s face it, this is a Christian nation. We’re not very strong, practicing Catholics and I’ve never gone to church for a service but I know names, stories, places from the bible. What puzzles me is that the bible teaches us to help those less fortunate yet so many people want to hoard their money. Give me the passage in the bible where it says it’s ok to turn away a beggar if you’ve worked really REALLY hard for your living?
I’m out of here people, hopefully whatever happens it will benefit all of us as “AMERICANS” and bring the USA back as the best this world has to offer. Don’t forget to vote!!!!!
To Jerry and Alberto:
America isn’t the only racist nation, just so you guys know. Everyone has those problems and those territorial issues, it’s just a human failing. Hopefully someday we can fight our instincts and all become people who only see other people and not “welfare case”, “redneck”, “ghetto” and so on. Race is just a dirty card to play all around whether it’s in attack or defense.
Alberto,
If Obama get elected im just gonna pray he does a good job for all Americans, but im worried that he will not reach out to conservatives and lets face it this country is very split almost 50-50 depending on who is the unpopular president of the moment!
Clinton didnt reach out to conservatives and Bush hasnt reached out to Liberals. Nothing makes me believe Obama will break that cycle…just because hes working hard in traditional red states means nothing…a campaign strategy! So lets say he is elected…im predicting he makes out like Clinton.
Jimmy,
Agree with you 100%!
While the Barack bashers are quick to point out Obama’s association with Ayers on the Annenberg trust, they fail to point out that the trust was founded by a Republican friend of Ronald Reagan, that Obama served with Republicans and Democrats on this board. They fail to point out that Ayers at this time was a recognized and accepted member of the Chicago community recognized by both Republicans and Democrats. If Barack did endorse a Ayer’s book on education reform, then read the ideas that are implicit in the book and criticize these ideas. Writing endorsement of a specific group of ideas does not substantiate a long term relationship. Besides, if there were a long term close relationship, we would see a lot more evidence than what we are seeing. McCain sought the support of radical preacher, John Hagee, but Democrats are not hung up on this “association”. Barack has never closely associated himself with Ayers, yet Republicans are panicky to try to establish one. Criticize Obama for his position on issues, but your fascination with Ayers has gone on for six months now, and nobody has found any real connection.
Jimmy
believe me I know we are not the only racist nation, i have lived in many different parts of this world and yes every one of them have it. My only concern is Our Nation, the one everybody use to look up too. It’s time to get that back.
Now I’m out, you all have a great day, the NFL is calling, have to go see my Steelers do ther thing.
Obama has the decency and courage to explain his flimsly relationship with Ayers on his own website.
When are we going to see the same kind of courage from McCain and Palin? McCain held a fund raiser at G Gordon Liddy’s house, a dubious character who advocated shooting federal agents in the head. Palin has not answered one single question about her loony cult witch doctor or her husband’s Alaska independence party. Like the relationship with Ayers, don’t we have the right to know about this? Where’s the “liberal media” about these issues? Why is McCain and Palin getting a free ride.
Jimmy,
I agree to a certain extent…i would like to think none of us would turn away a beggar but i think what people have a problem with is the Federal Government telling us we have to be charitable. I dont think many people see the Federal Government as a charitable organization. Charity comes from the heart.
Jerry
2 Thessalonians 3:10
10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
Jerry,
I see your point there and yeah, the Feds wouldn’t be first on my list of most charitable. lol
Charity is good when it comes from the heart but is the person you’re giving to going to care whether you are giving it kindly or not? It’s just about giving everyone a comfortable, humane existence. So ok, maybe some people wont be able to re-decorate their living room but it could patch up a leaky roof or fix some faulty plumbing for another family.
The far right wing loonies would rather see Obama torn down than elevate their nation.
We’ve tried a government with a far right agenda and we repeated the mistakes of Vietnam and the Great Depression. It’s clear their way doesn’t work. It’s time to give Obama a chance, instead of doing the same failed policies over and over again.
It’s funny how ya’ll come here and complain about stuff….you are like all in the same muddy pond with McCain, (NB Pond) like frogs, you can’t give any other perspective but a pond perspective, it’s the only one you have.
A biased perspective.
On the other hand, Obama and the Democrats are like eagles, they are soaring up high, they have a much wider perspective.
So my point, is, you may have all the pity parties, get cheers from the attendees, but that won’t change anything..because ya’ll were already convinced to start with, so the whole thing is a waste of time. Sorta like beating water in a mortar.
The issue here is not Ayers or Wright or all that….those guys don’t pay my bills. The issue is this, –We can’t afford 4 more years of GW Bush..in George McCain/Palin <–this last one is totally clueless by the way.
Cheers to the future!!
John,
It’s not just Food Stamps- the issue is
WAY bigger than that. It is every single
freebee program out there that enables
the “entitlement” attitude. The government
should serve a SMALL amount of purposes.
Number one being National Security and
stopping illegal imigration. The taxes that the illegals are paying on a loaf of bread nowhere near cover all the entitlement programs that they are allowed to participate in. SMALL government is the key and “Socialism” and “Redistribution of Wealth” ARE NOT! It has been proven that “Capitialism” works and if everyone would work as hard as they could in life and take advantage of the freedom and opportunity that millions of men and women have died for, they would not just say that they “do not want to be there” on welfare or any other hand out programs. They would actually not be there! I am from Milwaukee, WI and I KNOW the attitudes of “you owe me”- I don’t owe anyone anything but me and my family- it’s called donations and I should decide where and when I want to donate! But, go ahead take all my money so I can’t do anything useful with it! Just wait til the crazy beliefs of the full blown liberal democrats are ALL installed at once- this country will be devistated. With Obama they WILL.
Losers need government to help finance and run their lives.
Liberals are losers.
RazorBlade:
Yeah, OK buddy… what r u smokin?
Isn’t Colin Powell the guy who “LIED” and people died?
It seems liberals didn’t like him until today?
LiboCrat:
You are so right. Gee, we must be the enlightened ones.
Ever listen to talk radio Obama supporters? Or are you just so rich like Hollywood supporters that you don’t care how he will destroy the country?
I dont think it matters really…if you are giving charity for the right reasons. It really shouldnt matter how those who recieve it feel. Some people are proud and can be resentful of it. Those who have Christ in their lives just see charity as a blessing. Its funny you mention a leaky roof. My roof actually fell in on me once and my Church helped me big time with costs and labor. Im sure it was more efficient than the Feds lol.
Take Care
Jerry
Well damn lobo, you learned me somethin today. Thinking about it now, that does make sense since early American settlers were strictly religious and hard work was both a necessity and a way to keep from being idle and letting evil thoughts and actions take over. Not that they were all that pious. There’s always room for satan.
anna, in your response to derek your description of your dream situation sounds like communism to me. go live in cuba or china if you want someone else to make all you decisions for you.
Ayers never killed anyone!???
What planet do you libtards hatch on?
Do you get your morality from a cracker jack box libtards?
Arliss:
Neither was O.J. until now FINALLY. Due to all the liberal laws in the court system, how does anyone get convicted of anything?
Tara, I don’t know what your intentions are, but I wouldn’t pee on Obama if he was on fire.
The next virtue that Obama holds will be his first. He makes me sick.
Never mind convicted Tara, he has NEVER even been charged with anything.
You’ve got NOTHING that is true about him.
Arliss, clearly you are retarded. Ayers founded an organization and ran an organization that had one purpose. Terror.
He doensn’t deny it. You should never breed Arliss, you are quite stupid.
Probably was Jerry. I doubt FEMA would have given a speedy response. lol
Arliss, my retarded friend. Are you aware that Charles Manson never killed anyone?
RazorBlade:
Yeah, those liberals are soaring “HIGH” alright. They must be smokin’ the same stuff you are.
Jerry,
Did you say the word “Church”- holy cow, you should be convicted of a crime. Isn’t it illegal to mention Church or God? Only if you are Christian, right? Can’t say a prayer in a public school, but “Gay Pride” day has to be shoved down the kids throats. Oh, and let’s take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance too- because that is evil…WOW, the book of Revalations is coming true every day and Obama just might be the Anti-Christ.
I know lots of people who did lots of bad things later in life. Not really sure what everyone is going on about. Just trying to smear an honorable man. Look at the issues. and unless you and everyone in your family makes well over $250,000. I think you guys need to rethink things. I make about $200,000/year. But I see where most people are. and I don’t try and better myself, by taken those less fortunate down. And as far as joe the plumber- no license, owes taxes, and no where close to $200k- he is in the what if world- which few plumbers ever see. Joe needs to think about where he is now. because he doesn’t have a clue how it feels to have over 200K,. I do- and I would be just find with Obama’s plan
sorry- I would be just fine with Obama’s plan
Jimmy, As gov. Agencies go…FEMA is a joke. Really im not sure how much money the Gov. would have to throw at FEMA to make it efficient enough to make a difference but im sure Obama has a pretty big number in mind. Really the faith based orgs. had more success during Katrina than FEMA and Sen. Obama made note of that several times. I hope if he wins election he still supports faith based initiatives. We dont need the moveon.org rhetoric where everything to do with religion is just the “christian rights” way of taking over america.
Wilson A. Lede!
Thank God someone else here has brains!!
Tara,
Agree with much of what you say. As Jimmy said a little earlier…there is always room for satan whether we want him or not. lol
So being friends with Hitler would be ok, because I wasn’t born when he did his deeds?
Wilson, get a clue.
Wilson:
Yeah, “HE” succeeded in getting a bunch of money for community housing in Chicago and then “He” succeeded at not fixing up the housing and getting it boarded up. Oh, his poor brother living on $1.00 a week – “HE” really feels bad for the poor, doesn’t he?
On the bright side, we won’t need a government at all once we are all Dead.
Tara is right. Thats the plan for the radical islamists. Infiltrate then divide and destroy.
Hell people…..The NORTH and The SOUTH’S civil war has or I should say had nothing going on as strong as the Republicans and the Democrats hatred for each other. It makes no difference who holds office probably for a next generation…The hate will continue until ALL Americans pull together to make this country great. Don’t we have enough worry about how other countries hate us so much that they are hoping we will completely tear our own country apart? Aren’t we falling right into what the terrorists want? Don’t we have both Republican AND Democrats fighting for us in Iraq and Afghanistan?? DAMN PEOPLE…GET IT TOGETHER !! Somewhere this has got to stop, but instead the hatred spirals deeper. Are we going to have another war within our own country?? Isn’t that what we’re fighting against in Iraq right now for? To stabilize that Country? Hell people, maybe we should bring our men and women back here to stabilize our own country. I’m ashamed of ALL OF YOUB!!!
You know what people? After reading this blog I think it would be better if Revelation did come to pass. I would love to hear God’s take on this BLOG OF HATRED!!!!!
Agree with Sherron and its a point i made earlier about how the USA is divided more or less 50-50. Sadly the reason this will continue is that everyone wants it their own way.
Yeah and make no mistake, Revelation will come to pass.
What is more terrorism than presentation of a fake evidence in the United Nations summit to build a case for war.who’s talking about that,we should stop getting Barack Obama in Ayers case.That is not politics but slander to character.
Look, for all those out there who do not think Obama is a good choice for president, I respect your opinions but you need to see that there is a need for great change in America. Some may say that Obama is too young and inexperienced to lead the U.S., but just look at the job that JFK did during very trying times in the Cold War. Obama’s age is very close to JFK’s during his short term, and they both have/had similar experience in politics. Next, to all those out there who think that Obama’s past affiliations with, less than noble characters maybe a sign of character and judgement if he gets into the Oval Office. Every President, if you get into “deep politics”, has in one way or another associated with shady characters. No politician is a saint.
Now im not here to bash McCain, but we need someone who is more up-to-speed with the dire situations that our country is facing. It is my opinion that however different McCain is from President Bush, and I believe he is, they still have similar opinions, and desicions on foreign policy, and look at where that has gotten us the past 8 years. We have lost a great deal of credibility with coutries around the world. We have forced the issue of attacking, and we have done this without carefully thinking things through. It is scary to think what would happen if McCain were to continue Bush’s style of foreign policy. We need to work on stopping terrorism in our own backyard with police work. I know it may sound selfish to concern ourselves with solely our own interests, but we should not worry so much about Iraq, we should be concering ourselves with terrorists here, and NO Obama is NOT one of them, to say that is ignorant and stupid.
The economy needs fixing and the average middle-class person needs to be saved. I don’t think McCain is in-touch with them serious change needs to happen now. This is why, to me Obama would be the best choice for the next President.
Unless Obama and Ayers were planning terrorist acts….
Well thought out argument for Obama there Alex and i respect that…only one thing i would point out….JFK didnt do alot…he deepened our involvement in Vietnam and played war games over Cuba. Oh he did create the Peace Corps. Other than that i havent found much else. Maybe Marilyne Monroe was too much distraction.
Been fun but i have to go. God Bless.
It’s amazing to what length Republicans will go to avoid talking about the problems facing this country. Why present a solution when it’s much easier to finger point, name call and out and out lie?
God Bless you Jerry- Hope I see you at the second coming
Sherron,
What you are seeing is frustrated debate, not hatred. Why is it wrong to hate ignorance?
What is happening today in our nation is important to all of us. So far I have not seen anyone who has truly researched or understands Obama. Please do your research, not sound bites or talk shows or any of the other fluff….real research. Do I have concerns? Yes, I do. Does Obama have socialistic ideals, yes he has. His whole history is replete with them from his early childhood friend Frank to his association after Columbia U. with the Gambiel group (Saul Alinsky)and community organizing (ACORN roots) to the association with Ayers, Rezco and a lot more no one has even talked about. They are just the tip of the iceberg. Hillary flirted with Alinskism also but wisely walked away. Alinsky’s son stated that Obama has been his father’s best follower and has orchestrated Alinsky’s plan perfectly. Look it up folks. Get the whole picture before you spout off. The important issue is not Ayers per se but “the plan”. Alinsky’s son is right he has orchestrated it brillantly. Too bad only a few in America recognize what is really happening.
Up to the beginning of his bid for presidency, Obama had many radical anti-American friends. He dropped them one by one when their mention began to hurt his campaign or embarass him. He then tried to minimize his relationship with them, cover up his intimacy with them. In fact, he has betrayed lots of friends. Why his followers don’t see that he would drop them as soon as they represent an inconvernience for him? Why don’t they see that he will betray them the way he has betrayed all his anti-American friends?
I have a honest question for the Dems:
Will the aggregate of all are social programs or entitlements, be the death of our country or the supposed fiscal conservatism of the Republicans. And I am not thinking in the short term, Im talking this century and on!
My problem with the ODumbo/Blunder ticket is the fact Barry is not an American citizen as required by our Constution. He was born in Kenya and his last documented claim was as a citizen of Indonesia. He has been asked to produce a vault record from the state of Hawaii but has been turning to legal avenues so he doesn’t have to produce it to the courts as has been requested before Nov 4, 2008. There is a bigger question to ponder from the side of the country as a whole…can we really take 4 more years like the last 2? Democrats have ruined not just the US economy but have put Capitalism as we use to know it globally, on the brink of collapse with their economic policy failures.If ODumbo wins, the country and the world lose. We will enter into a global depression and all they will do is raise taxes back to the rates in the early 1960 under the Democrats when you paid 70% of your income in taxes. They will have all programs socialized. The entitlement programs will soar so they can bribe their way into continued power. With health care treatments requiring chips implanted in you for monitoring thoughts. And you will be told how evil the Reopublicans were for trying to keep you safe from the Terrorists who are really the Presidents close friends and neighbors.
I would like to know why you do not investigate this further?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200810100015?f=h_top
This is much like the swift boat crap in 2004. Instead of addressing the issues affecting America, they wanted to talk about how much Kerry bled in Vietnam.
The more the Repubilcans bring up Ayers, the more they’re telling America that they have no answers to America’s problems.
And those that are telling us that Obama is not ready to lead are the same idiots that thought that W Bush was ready to lead? Why listen to the opinions of fools that were wrong time and time again? Why would they be right now?
Look at McCain’s record and look at Obama’s record. Then remember that historically, Democrats support individual freedom, and believe the way to make a nation strong is to have a prosperous, well-educated population who participate in their own government. And yes, to maintain a strong military presence. For Republicans, the fewer people who vote the better. They support having a ruling class who makes all decisions, and human nature being what it is, those decisions tend to benefit the wealthiest (ruling) class first. That’s why regulation is so important. With no firm rules, the poorer populace gets what is left, in the ‘trickle-down’ principle. We have been hearing of ‘trickle-down’ for decades and it has yet to work for anyone except those at the top. The Republicans want the 95% of us at the bottom fighting among ourselves for crumbs so they can remain in power, and blaming everyone but the real culprits.
As for Sarah Palin, we really don’t know what she thinks, because her grammar and syntax is so garbled we cannot get her clear message. We only know she has a history of supporting her cronies and friends and is open to the idea of Alaska becoming an independent state. It is interesting to note that John McCain was angry at Obama’s ‘celebrity’ status, and yet applauds that of Sarah Palin.
Rest assured that if McCain is elected the government will continue to be run by the same shady individuals as now, who have been manipulating things in their favor for nearly eight years.
Jules
If you were speaking to me, I have; it was kind of a rhetorical. But I do want to hear from someone that thinks Socialism “more than we already have” is a good idea. It seems to me that the Europeans are struggling with the burden of Socialism and their economies show the lack of vigor that comes with it.
Puleeese everyone…Give it a rest !! How
about focusing on the important matters at hand. General Colin Powell, is disgusted with McCain’s dirty campaign, disappointed with his choice of VP, so much so, he has endorsed Barack Obama as next President. After separating the wheat from the chaff, as he has done, weighing his decision very carefully, his decision has beem made. Obama
is the best man for the difficult job ahead. No matter if you are Republican, Democrat or Independent, stop whipping a dead horse and look to the future of your great country.
Throw the crap into the trashbin where it belongs.
During tough times, cool heads must prevail…
Dejaine,
Maybe historic demos felt that way, but not the ones we have today.
Socialism does not work! Bottom up does not work… at least with trickle-down, I buy a new TV and someone gets my old one–they did not have one before and I helped the economy- 2 birds w/ one stone
Maple Leaf:
Hmmmm, let’s see, what to Powell and Obama have in common….
Dejaine
I consider myself an independant but a fiscal conservative, which used to indicate Republican. And I disagree with you entirely about your descriptions of the two parties. Dems think the government is the answer to all things, and Republicans self reliance. Add this to these statemnets: Think about your country in the long term, and “THE BUREACRACY IS EXPANDING TO MEET THE EVER EXPANDING NEEDS OF THE BUREACRACY”
Do you mean change in the government is that the president has to be different color?
Besides, I don’t understand why an African American wants to be president of USA when they consider themselves African not American, I think it would be more normal
to go to Africa and be president over there,
don’t you think so?, and if he is going to be a fabulous president they need one too, because that poor people quith all the black presidents they are sooo poor, the same for all those latin presidents.
Peggy,
Obama wants to destroy USA, that is why he is here. Terrorists work from the inside (they infiltrate)- Plus, there is noone to steal money from in Africa. He can’t even give his own brother any money.
To Anna – if you want everything for free than go live in a Socialistist economy and you will realize quickly it is not all what it is cracked up to be. That is not what America is all about. America is about democracy and competition to protect our economy. If I choose to work 65 hour weeks and give up my free time to make more money and save for my childrens education so they can have a better life – than why should I be penalized for working hard.
So what happens when everything is free, free education, free healthcare. Who is going to work?? What is the incentive?
Ironically the very things that you are saying you want is what hurts our econony.
Our economy is in the situtation it is in today not because of Republican policies but because Democrats refused over and over and over again to reform. If you don’t believe do research on the “Voting records” since 1977 when all of this started. Voting records “are” the truth no one can deny. The economy situtation didn’t happen overnight and it not because of one President’s policies.
Unfortuantely the dumbing down of America has become even dumber this election.
Keep drinking the Obama Koolaid!
Losers and Lazy people should get what you give them and be happy about it! They are not entitled to ANYTHING! You have to work for what you want!
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
Tara – I agree with you. The Holy Bible is not evil or a book of hate – though many would have us believe this. Morals are not evil. Po-life and pro-family not evil. So what gives?! Things have been turned around -evil is good and good is evil. I believe prophecy is coming true and the Church will be raptured – Thank God. I can’t wait to get out of here.
There is no one reason why the Roman Empire fell as there is no one reason why America will see the same decline. In fact we are in the death throes now.
What brought about the demise of the Roman Empire? Most historians agree on one thing, “New values had entered the Roman world and had a strong presence in Roman society in the third through fifth centuries in which Rome would fall.” Lights out!
Americas military could not be beat on the battlefield, so the ememy came to us with “new values” into our schools, our media outlets and our own government. While we just winked and nodded, and said to ourselves “oh everything will work out, this can’t happen to us, oops!
Folks the ememy is no longer at the gate, they own the gates. We can kick and scream all we want on blogs like this, but it won’t change a thing!
We are done, the fork is in our collective backs. We will only be a shadow of what we once were, hardly recognizable to folks who founded this nation. This election won’t change a thing, except to speed up or slightly slow down the process.
So you can jump up and down and get exercised at me, but don’t blame me I am just the messenger. We only have ourselves to blame. We let down our collective guard’s down in the name of Pluralism and now we get to lie in the bed we made. Goodluck!
PEGGY…RACISM IS ALIVE AND WELL IN YOU !!! I CAN ONLY HOPE YOUR GENERATION IS NOT LONG TO THIS EARTH..AND THAT THE NEXT ONE IS MUCH BETTER…
Bill,
You are right. Hope Jesus takes me and my family with him. Good luck to you and yours.
It was once said that “War is Hell.” If the truth was told — “Politics is Hell, too.” I’ve lost count of the number of so-called “Christians” (from both parties) who have said outright that they “hate” the candidate of the opposite party. That is certainly Christ-like. Personally, I believe that Jesus Christ did NOT engage in politics for a good reason — people lose their ability to reason when they engage in the political process and begin acting like demons from Hell.
Great work! The frickin’ con man OBAMA IS FINALLY EXPOSED! Obama’s gonna go down (freefall) in polls for deceit & lying to the American people endlessly.
Proud Texan
another proud Texan here. He drops them because he is following Alinsky’s plan. Distract, ridicule, work people up against each other, anyone is dispensible to reach the goal which is to get someone on the “inside” and get and keep power. He has done a great job of following Alinsky’s plan. I think you might be interesting in reading a bit there. No one else seems to have an interest in fact and history, just rhetoric and hate. I fear there will be great unrest when Americans finally figure out what has really happened. We better start learning to counter Alinsky’s plan on how to bring about socialism.
Hooley – Wow! Another person that actually gets it! I am amazed that there are so many Americans just drinking the “media Koolaid” without REALLY doing research. You are spot on and the IRONIC thing is OBAMA talks about it and HIS OWN BOOK. And yet people want to throw a blind eye and claim it is not true!
And to the person that said -Can you really buy an election??? Well we know the answer to that this year don’t we. McCain is limited to $85 million and Obama is up to $650 million and raised $150 just in September. Gee! I wonder America could be doing with all that money.
All we hear about is we need change. Do Americans care what that change may bring?? We need the RIGHT CHANGE. We need REFORM (not new spending which McCain has called out in his debates) and we need to stop wasteful government spending but we don’t need a socialist leader. I have lived in Germany as part of the US Military and I know firsthand what a socialist economy is all about…
The other thing I find interesting. If the economy is such horrible shambles, why is there still 45-1 hour waits at restaurants to eat. If people are hurting so badly why are they still spending money so foolishly?
Do I work hard! You better believe it! Do I give to the poor – Absolutely. I have several things on Craiglist right now that I am giving away for free to those in need that I could get money for on ebay or a consignment shop.
I would help anyone and have helped many people who have been down on their luck. That is completely different than people who don’t want to work hard and who spend beyond their means. If they couldn’t afford the house they should have bought a smaller one that they could afford.
Now the government is suppose to help them because they had poor judgment. What about all of the people that already lost their homes? Or those that didn’t buy the home because they knew they couldn’t afford it. Is the government going to come in and give them a brownie for having good judgment.
And people want to talk about taxes and this arbitrary amount of $250K. It is not $250K. I would love to know how many “Middle-Class” Americans that are hard working that didn’t get a “stimulus check”. I didn’t because I don’t own that home that I can’t afford at the moment so I don’t have the big tax right off as I am renting. Because I make a decent salary (and nowhere near a $100K) does the government really think, I couldn’t have used that $600. I am a single Mom, that is realistic in what I can afford and what I need to save for my child’s future yet I am penalized because I am trying to do the right thing.
It is crazy! The Hollywood Democrats want people to think they are so giving of their money. Oh aren’t they such nice people, I am going to go see their movie. Well, DUH! They make millions of dollars who wouldn’t be able to give. Oprah makes in a day, what most make in a year. There is no comparison.
Here’s the story of another rich, insulated from reality male of the ’60s, responsible for getting so many of our “true” Americans killed on the battlefields of Viet-Nam. Wake-up, America! Can’t you still see that Ayers continues to live a soft, non-demanding, exempt from the demands of being an American citizen life even today? How can someone establish , or be co-founder, or whatever, or be part of a radical, anti-American organization and not be an exemplary citizen–nay, a “distinguished professor, even? Someone served and died in Viet-Nam in his place, and we reward him? Shame on the people of Illinois, and the University where he teaches. He was rich, exempt from life and the draft, and had the luxury of protesting and being a “hippie”, doing drugs and fornicating with the little whores of the 60s who spoke of “free love”. Morally debased? I met them on my way back from the ‘Nam, when they blocked our way at the San Francisco Airp[ort–dirty, grungy, mothers who spat at us and called us “baby-killers”. My grandpa wasn’t rich, so I served–and I’d serve again–as an Infantry officer in the US Army, with the finest men of our generation. Now, these hippies are professors, CEOs of large corporations, Presidents, even. What a joke!
And, to add insult to injury, they bring in people from India to take Americans’ jobs!
Wake-up, America, it’s not about right, left, conservative or liberal–it’s about privilege, money, responsibility as a citizen, and preserving our jobs and industries before we give all our business away to China(our arch enemy), India, and all the rest of the third world because it’s “right”. What’s right is that we understand that the world hates us because we’re so wealthy, we have no friends, and we need to preserve our business infrastructure for our future generations. Viet-Nam was a big lie-there was no incident at Tonkin Harbor-and so is Iraq, I’ll bet you! We go from Iraq, to war in Afghanistan, and on to Iran–and the hippies of the 60s are not the right-wing of the present, making money off our sons and daughters who serve in our Armed Forces, just like their fathers did, and their grandfathers did. How can they play football in college and then be “exempt” from service, and not have to go to war? G.R. Reyes, US Army, Captain, Infantry, Retired (100% disabled Combat Veteran)
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is:
The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40’s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal….the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything.
So America, keep believing, don’t worry about Obama’s own book, his Father being a communist, his connections to Rev. Wright,
William Ayers, Saul Alinsky, Acorn, Tony Rezko, Khalid Al-Mansour.
Khalid Al-Mansour – very afraid! PLEASE try to convince as many people as you can possibly convince — DO NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA!
They will cheat the polls anyway, I guess- it is written in the Bible. But we have to try.
To Tara,
Right now, this country is still a capitalist nation. That is how our economy works. Our economy, right now, is in terrible shape. If Barak Obama is elected president, our economy will still be in terrible shape, and this nation will remain a capitalist society. So, why put down a candidate for sound advice on how and which direction this country should go.
If our country continues down this economic and political mess, there will be nothing good left, to call this nation great. Who would want to live in a country that has lost it moral character and its national pride?
I have been a faithful Republican all my life, and now I must vote for Barak Obama, to help bring back sound decision making policies for our nation.
Good Luck America, we really need it!
for hard working Americans
Sounds like you have done some homework. You are right about campaign finance. How did we ever get to a point where someone can literally “buy” an election. I firmly believe there should be an election fund split evenly between candidates. No more “get out the vote drives” that usually lead to fraud. Americans need to be responsible and vote without being pushed or bribed. If they don’t care enough to vote without being pushed, they likely are not going to make responsible decisions either. A national media focus would be appropriate but no one should be walking the streets soliciting people to sign voter registration papers….for any candidate. Handing out flyers urging people to vote etc would be perfectly appropriate as long as it is non-partisan. Let’s clean up our act on voter registration.
When you have a TERRORIST who is completely funded by TERRORISTS who is going to take over our contry, you serously think that we should be non-partisan?????
Differences Between Republicans and Democrats
To the people on here saying, I was a Republican – you either are or your not. The difference between the two are based on fundamental differences in the belief system.
Here are the fundamential differences:
Core Beliefs:
Republicans believe that each person is responsible for his or her own place in society. Government should enable each person the ability to secure the benefits of society for themselves, their families and for those who are unable to care for themselves. The Republican philosophy is based on limiting the intervention of government as a catalyst of individual prosperity. Government should only intervene in specific cases where society cannot effectively act at the individual level. With the core belief that individual destiny should be in the individual’s hands, governmental power and resources should be kept close to the people, through their state and community leaders, and not centralized in distant federal government agencies.
Democrats believe it is the responsibility of government to care for all individuals, even if it means giving up some individual rights and/or subordinating enterprise and initiative. Democrat Party administrations have pushed for the centralization of power in Washington D.C., with only secondary consideration for the rights of both individuals and communities. Democrats have favored federal-level interventions that replace community-based solutions to community problems. These tactics have created several federal regulations and controls that are often in the hands of unelected bureaucrats, causing a severe erosion of local authority.
The Economy:
Republicans believe free enterprise has brought economic growth and innovations that have made this country great. Government should help stimulate a business environment where people are free to use their talents. Democrats believe that the economy is too complicated for individuals to navigate alone. They believe that business decisions should be guided by government officials and in the best interest of labor unions.
Taxes and Government Spending
Republicans work tirelessly to cut government spending and to eliminate government waste. Republicans believe individuals should control both their own and their government’s pocketbook – the people should authorize all tax increases.
Democrats believe that government knows what is best for individuals. They argue that federal bureaucrats better understand the needs of a community than a locally elected council and the federal government should define the tax burden necessary to meet its obligations, because this is too complicated for individuals to understand.
National Defense:
Republicans believe in a strong national defense. Republicans know that defending our nation against its enemies must be a fundamental commitment of the federal government and this requires the best-trained, best-equipped and most effective military in the world. With
America as the world’s only superpower, Republicans believe that true security comes from the strength of character to act collaboratively, when possible, and alone when necessary. After the tragedy of 9-11, America must be ready to fight terrorism abroad in order to prevent it at home.
In the past 10 years, Democrats have advocated for scaling down our military and reducing the money spent on military intelligence. Democrats believe that true security comes from negotiations with foreign nations, even if they harbor or have financial ties to terrorist groups. Democrats believe that we must ask other nations for permission before we act to protect our own security.
Education:
Republicans believe all students, regardless of race or socio-economic background, should become proficient in both reading and math. While it is desirable that children learn more than one language, mastery of the English language will allow our children to be competitive at the university level. Republicans also believe that schools should be held accountable for student progress through testing, which can be used to identify individual childrens’ needs. These reports, at both the student and school level, should be provided to the parents to ensure accountability.
Democrats:
Believe that tests burden teachers and waste classroom instruction time. They also believe children should be forced to stay in schools that fail to teach the basic skills. Democrats argue that literacy should be left for unions to define rather than local PTAs or other parent groups.
Immigration:
Republicans recognize that our nation is enriched by immigrants seeking a better life. In many cases immigrants have fled violence and oppression searching for peace and freedom. All suffered and sacrificed but hope for a better future for their children in America.
Republicans agree that the lack of security along our borders has contributed to the flow of narco-trafficking, gang violence, and the yearly forced servitude and slavery of over 50,000 women and children from foreign countries by human smugglers. While our nation has been enriched by the determination, energy, and diversity of immigrants, Republicans believe that in this nation of laws, immigration policies should be followed and that securing our borders is vital to ensuring the safety of our citizens.
Democrats believe that as the world superpower, it is a fundamental right for the United States to provide unconditional aid and comfort to the citizens of other nations. Democrats believe in open borders, unconditional amnesty, and that the laws of this nation be curtailed to provide non-emergency assistance and legal forms of identification to foreign nationals.
WOW Anthony,
We really do need devine intervention with
Americans like you, who would vote for Terrorism (and fits Bible definition of the Anti-Christ) and the demise of our Nation.
IT DIDN’T TAKE YOU FASCIST PIGS LONG TO ERASE MY BLOG….COULD IT BE THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY ANTI FREE SPEECH AND THUS, ANTI AMERICAN.
I RECOMMEND A GOOD BOOK FOR ALL YOU IGNORANT FREAKS: TODAY’S ISMS by EBENSTEIN. IT EXPOSES EXTREMIST NUT GROUPS, FASCISTS AND THE LIKE WHO USE THE BIG LIE, HALF TRUTHS, CONVOLUTED LOGIC, CHARACTER ASSISSINATION, ETC., AS A POLITICAL TOOL. EBENSTEIN MUST HAVE KNOWN SOME OF YOU. HE DESCRIBED YOU SO COMPLETELY!
Who is the terrorist that is being funded by the terrorist?
The Weather Underground wanted to change America, not destroy it. Bill Ayers may have been a radical and suffered from poor judgment, but he’s not a “terrorist” in the sense that the McCain campaign wants you to believe. At least Ayers wanted to help change America, rather than secede from it like Todd Palin.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter. People are losing everything, and all the Rethuglicans can talk about is second-hand associations. There’s a total lack of vision for the future in the McCain campaign, and as a result, McCain will lose. And then all the mouth-breathing right-wingers will burst a blood vessel screaming about it, while the rest of us set about trying to rebuild the country.
Ayers is an issue because there is a youtube of him speaking Nov. 30th to MSU SDS reunion. Find it and listen closely to parts I & II. This man is clearly continuing his anti-american, extreme socialistic ideological antics to promote social unrest and “Change”. That is the Obama Change..change america’s financial structure – level the playing field…then take it over to your idea of “Change”. Ayers and Obama gave $840,000 to ACORN. ACORN according to Stanely Kurtz has deep anti-capitalistic ideologies. Obama mentored their trainees on “get in their face” tactics. Madeline Talbot stormed congress to impose her demands that they force Fannie and Freddie to allow banks(based on the CRA-prior to that the banks did not make excessive subprime loans)to make excessive subprime loans. Obama sued Citibank in favor of ACORN. (google it)Why was Ayers giving money to ACORN? Why was Ayers praising Chavez for his educational reforms? Ayer’s own education reform is indicative of his brain washing the youth to rebel and rise up against society. Obsma wants gov. to have a hand in education. Question his motive! Strip society of small businesses and you end up with surfdom. Letting government run health insurance and green jobs is what he wants. Then why did the 2nd Paulson plan have added, “The Stock Injection Option” – gives the treasurer the right to buy stocks in the banks, and at his descretion to “kick out the bankers, and take over”. That is nationalizing banks. On the McLehrer hour yesterday the one democrat that screams her ugly head off..said in retort to Monica Crawley’s statement that there is no money for nationalized health insurance, that obama will most certainly do it, in increments. That will require heavy taxation.
Taxing capital gains will scare people away from investing. Businesses leave. Read Stanley Kurtz – ACORN “a nutty regime’ statements by Sol Stern. Read Jack Cashill’s latest google October 18th..he says that Ayers saw in Obama the vessel that could channel his ideologies.
Thanks to Matthew Weaver’s important research and writings, we now have further evidence of Barack Obama’s network of alliances with radical groups such as Acorn and Socialist parties like Chicago’s New Party, via the NP’s own mid-1990s newsletter in which it endorsed Obama after demanding that Obama sign a contract promising adherence to the NP’s goals and participation in the NP’s programs:
Barack Obama At present, he practices law in Judson Miner’s law firm and is President of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant which is distributing some $50 million in grants to public school reform efforts. [THIS is same group we know as the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) that was founded by Bill Ayers. Ayers also got all the fundraising for the group, and hired Barack Obama as the CAC’s chairman.]
There is a youtube on this page of Ayers – Read full story at:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/10/the-bill-ayers-who-obama-has-been-close-to-for-over-two-decades/
Just as Bill Ayers owes much of his standing to his father’s power as an industrialist in Chicago, Barack Obama owes much of his standing, first in Chicago and now nationally, to the doors that Bill Ayers opened for him.That Obama must distance himself so frantically from his long, close relationship with the terrorist must be amusing, privately to Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn. They are thinking that it is they who will have the last laugh, as the man who secretly represents their own interests — far more than he does that of most Americans — takes over the White House and becomes the most powerful man in the world.
I would vote for Colin Powell if he ran for president, Martin Luther King, or Condolessa Rice. But I pray to Almighty God, that this man does not get near running our country.
Along with Ayers was Rasheed Khalidi who has strong anti-Israeli sentiments. Obama at the Al Smith dinner (see youtube of McCain & Obama roasting one another – McCain clearly had funnier remarks that held substance of truth – Obama only made fun of his name, saying that his father didn’t know his son would run for president someday, referring to his middle name, that we aren’t supposed to say. Well…i ask, then why did BO change his first name to Barack from Barry?, once knew he wanted political office, which was his aim ever since Harvard. Read those articles from harvard 1990..That man has made so many flipflops all to “try and please”. Read larry Elder’s “The Case against Obama”. Here is an educated black man, as there are a lot of blacks that do not favor Obama. Google Gamaliel foundation that Obama was a community organizer with. They have all the same anti-american, anti-whitey rants that Reverend Wright has. And Obama lied and said he was unaware of Wright’s antics. He threw all of these associates under the bus for political expediencey. But in truth he didn’t, he just said that to make us believe he is worthy of the White House.
Read up on these things, and then ask yourself again if conservatives or McCain is attacking Obama, or simply trying to “SAVE AMERICA FROM A FRAUD!”. lOOKS ARE DECEIVING, AND SO IS RHETORIC PACKAGED BEHIND ELOQUENCE. DON’T BE DECIEVED. YOU WILL BE SORRY.
Why then is the communist party in N.Y. so happy about Obama? Why is Louis Farrakhan calling him “The Messiah?” see youtube. This is all so frigin spooky and geeky! come on America you aren’t so naive and gullible. Think with your brians and not be taken in by peer pressure, stupidity!
McCain and Obama simply cannot honestly keep any promises with the economy in the state it is. But surely, anyone with brains, who can read, and listen to economists, know that during a recession, it is not wise to raise taxes, it always leads to a depression.
But you see that is what ol Barry wants, then he can usher in his Nationalistic theme.
His policies weaken our national defense. By weakening our economy it most certainly will.
A Cal Tech student had an exhibit yesterday showing that throughout the ages, the a nation’s geography, topography determined their economic wealth and strength of defense. Today it is the global market that can weaken our national defense. Obama wants to give our money to global welfare. He is so full of PIPE DREAMS I fear his inexperience more than I fear Sarah Palin’s small town speaking skills. She is very intelligent and if she had to, I’m confident that she would seek good advise to her own.
Why I even read that Obama would be exactly the “Same and not change”…as he was very much liked by Bush’s administration…they had similar ideologies regarding the middle east. Google it. read it yourself.
McCain and Palin will clean up Washington and get this country back on track, preserving Capitalism, and Patriotism. They will keep us safe from attack, and they will bring honor to our military, not shame as the Obama’s do. Obama’s use that old “socialistic liberal rant – complain about your enemy doing exactly what you do, and plan to do”.
God will prevail and America must know this truth behind the unvetted man running for president, who lied about campaign funds, and now has far more money than McCain to campaign, and still isn’t that far ahead of McCain. The mainstream media is in the tank for him, out of political correctness, and now that the truth is out, let’s see how intelligent they are. ?
Stanley Kurtz connects Obama, Ayers, Acorn as being the intial empetus to our economic meltdown. Read “Planting Seeds of Disaster”, read all of his articles. Truly amazing, and now that the media and people know about his research…You can understand why McCain said that Ayers and ACORN must be investigated. Do the investigating for yourself. As Stanley said, If Obama gets in the White House, Fannie and Freddie, ACORN and Pelsosi, and Rains and that whole bunch will certainly have a FEAST!!!
There is a difference between an attack and the righteous mentioning of someone’s recent past. Even Bill Moyer’s guest last week from the Annenberg foundation speaking about the candidates campaign ads said that. She even said that McCain had repented about the Keating 5, and went on to implement the McCain/Feingold. So there is no taint to that past experience. But has Obama repented for his involvement with the Gamaliel foundation, which holds, anti-whitey like sentiments, like Reverend Wright? Has he told us the truth that Ayers did help propel his Chicago political career, but he is sorry for it? No, because he is ever so thankful for it.
The AYERS ISSUE IS IMPORTANT – EMAIL THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
@”Hard Working Americans for McCain”: You’ve done a great, Orwellian job of distorting the Democratic platform. You stated the Republican core beliefs in the most reasonable, centrist way possible, while phrasing the Democratic core beliefs in as extreme and radical a form as you could. But here’s the thing: people aren’t buying your party’s phony talking points anymore. Sorry, your guys screwed up. Time for a change.
Someone said in a previous blog that Republicans believe that all kids need to learn to read proficiently, etc…Ironically, it was the Republicans in the Texas House of Representatives who fought and voted against the Omnibus Education Reform Act of 1984, House Bill 72, which included no pass, no play for extra-curricular and co-curricular participants. It also included proficiency testing for teachers among many other stringent improvements to the public school systems in Texas. It worked quite well until Bill Clements, Republican, won the next governor’s race. He watered down the provisions of HB 72 (weakened NO PASS, NO PLAY, etc.,) and doomed it to failure. GW Bush continued the Republican onslaught on public school excellence in Texas. Don’t give me that crap about what Republicans believe about education or anything else. REPUBLICANS RUN TO WIN, NOT TO GOVERN. IF OR WHEN THEY TRY TO GOVERN, IT IS ON BEHALF OF THOSE WHO DO NOT NEED GOVERNMENT AT THE EXPENSE OF THOSE WHO DO.
Hey, Linda..
If you would vote for C. Powell, you must respect his intelligence and judgement. Well, he says “vote for Obama!” So, Linda, what do you think?
Tara…
That’s the type of “trashbin” garbage I was
referring to. Get past the skin colour for God’s sake. Colin Powell is endorsing Obama
because he can see hope, steadfastness and
“calm in a storm.”
What about Kissinger and Haig endorsing
McCain ?? They are white…What does that mean ?? That they support McCain’s
conservative beliefs…apart from that…Absolutely NOTHING !! Can’t have it both ways Tara…
There is so much insane talk out there from right-wingers…Scary stuff…Makes me afraid for your country…
To Tara,
First, I need to tell you that I am a minister in the Christian traditions for 20 years. I also, have a university degree in Religious Studies/Sociology from Temple University. Go Owls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, I have a College degree in the Liberal Arts.
Your reference to the anti-christ is not true. The anti-christ in scripture was a position taken by Christian leaders in the first century, and it was refering to Roman Leadership (political leadership).
To Hardworking Americans,
If I were to allow any person to define who I am, I guess I would not be free, therefore, not an American. Also, the Republican Party is a progressive party started during President Lincoln’s time to have government re-distribute wealth and access to goods and services. Read or re-read American History 1850-1900.
Peace To You All!
McCAin/Palin rule!!!
so linda…save our country from the socialist/militarist Obama/Biden and put it in the hands of militarist/dominionist McCain/Palin?
poor linda…caught up in the matrix.
hey linda, one is really no better than the other.
wake up sheeple.. you’ve been brain-washed by one head of a two-headed serpent…con, lib, repug, demo…they’re two sides of the same coin.
Anthony,
You don’t think that Khalid Al-Mansour and the people he works for want to do harm to America? They are the backers of Obama and why he moved to the top so quickly! I call this terrorism. People are too blind to see the most basic facts. It does not matter who is running against Obama, YOU CAN’T VOTE FOR OBAMA! There is no choice here people.
Go To: http://theobamafile.com/
and check out all the YouTube videos on this.
trollkillr- (What a name…)
There are those (you and the Obama Crew) who just sit around (or move around) and try to use weird fancy language (brain-wash) to criticize a man and a woman who are acutally doing something for this country– and then there are those who speak clearly and to the point (us)—
The choice is clear to vote for McCain- a man who has served and who’s family has served for the good- no matter what the hell other mistakes he has made.
So what if Annenberg gave money to Ayers?
You use whatever …Obama made that stupid connection too.
Have you read that even the CAC and the Chicago School District both said, that the foundations attempts to improve the School system of Chicago was a failure!!!
That was due to the FACT THAT AYERS AND OBAMA misused the funds, to fund afrocentric endeavors, as well as ayers’ own radial ideologial teaching platforms.
so go talk your crap to someone else less informed bud.
Anthony,
I also study religions and scripture.. take the Bible out of it, what about my other points???
Hey, Anthony John the Minister….
Reverend Hagee, a McCain supporter, is a minister as well….I have never seen anyone who exemplifies mean spiritedness, hard heartedness and downright viciousness as this self proclaimed spokesman for God, John Hagee. He does not “walk humbly with (his) God”. He could not care less about good stewardship or feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, ministering to the ill, giving drink to the thirsty. His bombastic ministry makes Reverend Wright look meek and humble by comparison. Don’t give me that crap about ministers being goody goody, always right and guided by God.
The sad thing about so many right wing ministers and the right wingers who follow them is that they talk about the things Jesus didn’t talk about all the time (gays, lesbians, abortion, sex, etc.) and so little about the things jesus did talk about..noted above. They are so caught up on dominance, power, authority, rule over others that they forget so much of the very essence of Jesus’ teachings….
To Tara,
Remove fear, and you will make decisions that are best for you. That is all you and I can do. If we act as if we know Obama or McCain so well, we fool ourselves and we set aside our divine intelligence that are within. Let conscious and nature be our guides. Not fear and hate.
Yes Sarah!
Re”McCain/Feingold – I’m a Dem for McCain..
so i have no problem saying that.
McCain has gone against his party a lot.
So friggin what?
I’m chosing the lesser of two evils.
And frankly, i don’t think McCain is Evil.
I do think that Obama and his wife are
and were closely aligned with anti-american sentiments. They hung out with that group of nutcases and when ol barry made fun at the Al Smiths and said, in retort to having been accused of hanging out with terrorists…he laughed comedically that then he came to washington, ‘and hangs out with terrorists”..wasn’t far from the truth..that whole gang of Pelosi, Raines, Jim Johnson, they were the initial ones getting money from fannie and freddie..Obama got something along the lines of $150,000, …He was the one who got that whole ball of wax rolling with his endorsement and defense of ACORN. Remember he and AYERS gave $280,000 to ACORN. GEEEEE wonder why?????????
Anthony,
God Bless you. But, there is more we can do. To anyone who will listen… YES, the FEAR is REAL. Are you aware of the Liberal Agendas and how they will affect this Nation and then the World? They have been pushing their Agendas for years and now finally – on e chance in a lifetime to rule the land- they WILL implement EVERY insane idea within the first four years. WATCH OUT
Harley,
Yes, many people who proclaim to be “ministers” are bad. But that goes for anyone who claims to be anything. But we have to fight our battles from the top down. Of course a smart terrorist organazation is not going to call themselves “terrorists” and they are going to get a smooth talker to lead the country– does that put FEAR into anyone else?
Hey Harley,
Yeah, that is a difficult pill to swallow. Please forgive me and my fellow ministers around the world, and in every faith, of violating our responsibilities to Think: righteously,truthfully,fairly, and justly; forgive us of violating our responsibilities to Speak:
righteously,truthfully,fairly, and justly; and forgive us of violating our responsibilities to Act:
righteously,truthfully,fairly, and justly.
To Harley,
I am not right or left, I am not apart of the middle. I am fair and just, not so righteous, but I am working on that. God must help me! But I do speak what is true. And ministers, along with all other human beings, do hear God speaking to us. Beaware of that. Growing-up in a poor-middle class group in the west-coast, and being a minority,I do understand racism,classism,and lackism. So I can only preach what I have lived.
To Tara,
There are people and groups in this country who supports both political parties that are extremist. Will the Grand Dragon of the KKK support Obama, or anti-Semitic/Neo-Nazi group fund Obama.? But they are supporting someone! Right?
And your point is?
Hey Harley!
If you want to look up the facts instead of touting one vote = which we ALL KNOW the same could be said of OBAMA. Check out http://www.ontheissues.org where you can see every vote of both politicans and funny enough – their quotes and then how they voted – which on both sides has not been truthful!
By the way, wasn’t it Obama who took the money he was given for education and just so happen to pick his brother-in-law to give it to for the good of the Chicago Education system. FACTs are FACTS!
In regards to your statement that REPUBLICANS RUN TO WIN, NOT TO GOVERN. IF OR WHEN THEY TRY TO GOVERN, IT IS ON BEHALF OF THOSE WHO DO NOT NEED GOVERNMENT AT THE EXPENSE OF THOSE WHO DO.
I am sorry, you don’t make sense. Democrats want big government, not Repulicans. Are you hearing what Obama is saying? BIG GOVERNMENT – FREE HEALTHCARE, FREE EDUCATION. Democrats want to be goverened. And of course lets be clear, that is only true when it has nothing to do with their morals.
If you don’t believe it, check out this series on Socialism.
The series: The Audacity Of Socialism
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/series8.aspx
Did you listen to Obama tell his half-truths on his position on Abortion and how he has voted. Anyone that has a child and has seen an ultrasound at 6 weeks with tiny little fingers, knows when life begins. Obama sure did try to skirt that one during the debates.
It must be nice to be able to vote “present” as many times as he has. What “representation” of the people of Illinois does that “represent”. What is he going to do in the White House? Say, he can’t form an opinion. I don’t think a President can vote “present”. Even Hillary and Kerry both condemed Obama for his voting record…
Regarding who is out to win, HMMMM, lets think about that one. Obama is the one that reversed on his agreement and has now raised $650 million for his campaign (first candidate since Watergate reform). Where McCain is capped at $84 million. You tell me who is out to win!
Obama is doing what ever he has to do to win! One day it is “I will not wear that pin on my chest” in reference to a pin of the United States flag. When that became unpopular stance he sure did switch his mind on that one real quick and if you watched the debates. He wore “that pin”.
Everyone looses themselves in the details, our country is great because of the policies we have been enacting for decades. Not the new Socialist ideas that some are espousing.
SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK, remember
“THE BUREACRACY IS EXPANDING TO MEET THE EVEREXPANDING NEEDS OF THE BUREACRACY!”
the only ones espousing socialism are the giant corporate oligarchs & so-called “Federalists” who want a pervasive corporate national security state (a virtual police state) to replace of our Democratic Republic and our version of democratic capitalism….that is what GHW Bush meant when he talked about a “new world order”, starting in the USA…..His son and the so-called modern day conservatives (the Southern Republicans, Cheney, et al., have been the major force behind the growth and power of the pervasive American government, the idea of the Unitary Executive branch, in the recent era….Right wing nuts who screech about the evils of liberalism have no idea what conservatism is or the difference in “welfare state” and socialsim. It is time that right wing nuts finally read a little more Thomas Jefferson…especially what he said about “dressing a man in the clothes he wore as a boy” as he spoke about the changes that would realistically occur as the US became a more complex, urban, industrial, techological inter-dependent society with a growing role in world affairs…You can, if you really want to grasp the brilliance of TJ, read what he said about that on his monument…When the US was an agrarian, rural, relatively simple society with a tiny role in international affairs, TJ was an advocate for “rugged individualism”. But he also said that “when Americans go to piling up on top of each as they have in the ghettos of Europe” the need for more government will grow in order to cope with the new inter-dependence of people in cities, as in Europe…..You cannot even think that it is possible to govern our complex, urban, technological, industrial, internationalist nation the same way it was governed when it was an agrarian, simple rural society. That is why TJ said we needed a revolution every two years…in order to adapt to changes in our society that he nor others in his time could even imagine….
Read TODAYS ISMs by Ebenstein…and then re-read Adam Smith’s WEALTH OF NATIONS in which you will see that he did not recommend unbridled laissez faire capitalism…and then, if you can, try some C. Wright Mills..WHITE COLLAR, POWER ELITE, etc…and maybe take a look at REVOLT OF THE MASSES by Jose Ortega y Gassett…
Harley
I agree to an extent on the growth of the government under the Republicans, but I believe it is an aberation! And will be stopped next time around now that we right leaning people are fed up with the Conservatives not being conservative, at least for me financialy. Now you did impress me with your book sense but did you answer my question about Socialism vs Controlled capitalism. Remember this is not a zero sum game, we need a some social programs but we need to draw a line at some point. People will always expect more and more from the government. And I have read a bit of the founding fathers writings, and the parts about a overbearing intrusive Government resonate with me. And the line about how ‘when the politicians understand that whomever promises the most “largess” to the populace gets reelected, democracy dies’ Im paraphrasing! Im a moderate from the country, and do not want much from Uncle Sam just some basics and a basic safty net. WHAT SAY YOU MY FREIND?
Harley
I hope no one is advocating for complete laissez fair capitalism–that is why I am a moderate, either extreme does not work.
The historical reality is that when Republicans are in power, they advocate for small government but always expand government, especially insofar as it benefits the giants of industry. They work very hard to develop a welfare program for the rich and the giant corporations. Their “pity the poor rich” mentality means that they really believe that the strength of an economy flows from the top of the pecking order rather than from a strong consumer base. Of course, to have a balanced and strong economy, the production side must have fair and equitable taxation and regulation but they don’t, as we have seen from the energy, insurance, etc. industries, need $billions of tax breaks and incentives (wealth redistribution measures) at the expense of the middle class who, as well, must be financially strong enough to purchase the goods and services of industry, which includes funding the production costs of goods and services as well as providing the often extravagant profit margins which can be manipulated by the system to show losses than the real profits which have been made.
Republicans constantly harp about the notion of the
redistribution of the wealth which they accuse Democrats of perpetrating. The reality is that Republicans are much more prone to policies of wealth redistribution. That is why 1% of the population controls such a massive percent of the national wealth than the remaining 99% of the population. So, when, under the age old notion that people should be taxed based on their ability to pay (progressive income taxes), Dems try to balance the burden, they are called socialists..as we see in todays presidential election politics. Corporations get substantially more tax relief than middle class wage earners at the local, state and federal level yet they enjoy all the benefits of what the state provides: law enforcement, road & highway mobility, trade protections, etc.; benefits and protections average citizens don’t get.
Warren Buffet says, “Don’t give me anymore tax relief, give my secretary a tax cut.” Is he a socialist? Of Course not. Does he understand that if his secretary gets at least some of the tax benefits that corporations get, she will be able to afford more goods and services which, in turn, benefits business. After all, big and mid sized business has always been covert advocates of the welfare state because is expands the consumer base.
McCain complained that American businesses pay approximately 3 times what Ireland’s business tax is. Of course he didn’t mention that Ireland isn’t spending $10 billion/month on a war in Iraq or trying to maintain an infrastructure for one of the largest and most complex nations in the world…among so many aspects of the Ameican economy and burden in contrast to that of Ireland. And, of course, the gullible Republican could’t see past that idiotic rhetoric to see American realities in comparison to Irelands.
I’ll stop for now.
Government grew massively under IKE, Nixon, Bush 1, and now Bush 2..as did annual budgets, budget deficits and national debt….The last balanced/surplus budget prior to WJC was the last budget presented and implemented by LBJ. Republican presidents, time and time again, have strong recessions, massive budget deficits and much more corruption than Dems presidents: Nixon, Reagan, et al. I am not talking about blow jobs..I am talking about malfeasence in governing….abuse of power…etc. I am not talking about congressmen and senators..I am talking about administrations…
I have to take your ideas one at a time! You are making me think but I will try to answer your statements one by one and as briefly as possible. And then you can continue to enlighten me.
Tax breaks for the rich: Dont the top few percent pay most of the tax’s?
And if some get rich while providing people like me good jobs; is that not a good thing?
I would much rather subsidize companies that support thousands of people and our outstanding lifestyles, than people looking for a free ride.
Your statement about expanding the consumer base does resonate with me I do wonder about consumerism.
But what if his secretary does not pay any tax anyway, or so little it does not add to our ability to build infastructure or what have you. There is a limit though to their profiting and that is where our laws come in. Maybe we need more or better oversight, but not a change of economic systems. Dont the socialist countries suffer from most of the things you just listed also?
Dont the socialist style governments suffer from deficits and sluggish ecomomies, and that most in Europe are only 60 and 70 years old?
What do you do for a living, you sound like a teacher or somthing.
The wealthy pay a larger percent of the income taxes in the US because they control a vastly larger percent of the wealth in the US. Actually, however, they don’t pay their fair share based on their income because they don’t pay the same total percentage of their income in taxes as do lower income categories (not including thsoe who don’t make enough to pay taxes but who do pay gas tax, sales taxes, property taxes thorugh rent or ownership, etc.) because they have more ways to shield income which shows them with less taxable income than their actual income to pay taxes on.
Harley
Mull this over! this is from the gov It shows that we the peeps, pay about 40% and the corporations pay about 48% in taxes?
PERCENTAGE COMPOSITION OF RECEIPTS BY SOURCE: 1945-1995
—————————————————————————-
Source 1945 1955 1965 1975 1985 1995
—————————————————————————-
Individual Income Taxes……….. 40.7 43.9 41.8 43.9 45.6 43.6
Corporation Income Taxes………. 35.4 27.3 21.8 14.6 8.4 11.6
Social Insurance Taxes & Contrib.. 7.6 12.0 19.0 30.3 36.1 35.7
Excise Taxes…………………. 13.9 14.0 12.5 5.9 4.9 4.2
Other……………………….. 2.4 2.8 4.9 5.4 5.0 4.9
—————————————————————————-
TOTAL, FEDERAL RECEIPTS……….. 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0
—————————————————————————-
Source: Budget of the United States Government, FY 1997,
Historical Tables, table 2.2
============================================================================
The rich rarely risk their own wealth in what you call job creation and corporate development. They risk bank money which they get at the best interest rates and which they have the best of terms on the payback side. They are protected from loss in many cases by provisions of the tax code…In reality, they risk your money which you deposit in banks and which they borrow….
Regarding subsidizing companies which provide many jobs, that is not even a part of the formula. You not only subsidize the creation of the corporations in the tax code, you provide the consumption of the goods and services produced which, after all, provides the profit they live the life of Riley on…actually at your expense from the up front to the end result….The point is that we need to protect the consumer as much if not more than the entreprenuer because without the consumer, the entrepreneur is dead meat. The biggest enemy of small business and midsize corps is the giant corporations who do everything they can to put him out of business. A strong economy requires a strong consumer base…and a strong consumer base is all the incentive an entrepreneur needs to go out find the money, start a company and compete for business…Companies don’t risk capital to create goods and services they cannot sell..Government subsidization of companies is not capitalism…Corporate welfare is not anywhere in the definition of capitalism….especially when it comes at the expense of the struggling, shrinking middle class..Incidentally, everytime Republican economic policies (trickle down, etc.) are implemented, the middle class shrinks and we end up with a sluggish economy if not a recession…
How do Republicans explain the 1993 Clinton tax increases which eventually balanced the budget and was the force which provided the longest and strongest economic growth in US history…22 million jobs…budget surpluses….? The truth is that fiscal policy is not the cause of sustained strong economies, monetary policy is! Why did Ronald Reagan, after his first term tax cuts, follow up in his second term with the biggest increase & expansion of taxes combined with user fees in real dollars (based on inflation) than at any other time in US history? Most Repubs don’t know that! And he still had the largest growth of annual budget deficits & national debt than any previous administration. The same is true for Bush1 and Bush 2, respectfully. Clinton, as previously stated, had the first balanced/surplus budget since the last LBJ budget. ironic.
The myth that Republicans have been better at handling the economy is actually a myth…especially since WW2…Do some research and you will see what I mean!
Buffet’s secretary pays taxes..She is in the middle class and people in the middle class make enough money so that they have to pay taxes…
A little info for you…when LBJ passed and implemented his Great Society programs, there were approximately 33 million Americans living under the poverty line. By the time he left office in January of 1969, the number of americans living under poverty line was 11 million. His programs were working because he made sure that they were serving theose who needed a hand up, not a hand out, which the programs were designed to serve. America was the better for it.
The Great Society programs began to fail when Nixon sabotaged them by systematically turning them into political patronage devices and allowed them to serve the providers rather than the truly needy. Nixon used the Hansel and Gretel approach..feed the programs billions so providers could become rich and become Republicans (not to mention the overt implications of racism) and the taxpayers would see that the programs were no longer working and want to kill them. Reagan, Bush 1 & Bush 2 have followed up on that..replacing those programs with corporate welfare…
Matt,
Mull this over…the wealthy and the corporations control 90% plus of the total wealth of the nation…Apparently, based on that, they are not paying their fair share of the burden….while the rest of the nation, the other 10% are paying significantly more taxes on the wealth they control than the corps and the rich..
48% 0f 90% of the nation’s wealth is not as much as 40% of 10% of the wealth, is it?
I just returned from the GPOs website they put up everything about our budgets. It is alot to grasp. Where do you get your info? It will take me days to fact check you, what about the teacher question? So in short what would be your perfect scenario as far as our government?
I dont see how you can think the tax increases had anything to do with the economic boom, I believe it had all to do with technology, the dot com boom and then bust.
I am a Texan..a military brat…I worked in a White House in the 1960’s…worked in the US Senate until 1971…was in the USMC…Worked in the Texas legislature for 14 years…Coached college football for a number of years…..have been a political consultant, campaign manager, media advisor, legislative consultant…degrees in political science, history, economics, sociology, psychology…BA, MA, Phd…been in restaurant business, cattle business, construction business….In other words, I have been a part of the American picture inside and out and have been a keen observer and participant in the policy as well as practical aspects of our system…I consider myself to be an ideological pragmatist rather than an ideological liberal, conseervative, radical or reactionary…Hobbes, Locke, Voltaire, Rousseau, the idols of many of our founding fathers, considered themselves to be the avant garde of liberalism because they believed the people were capable, at some level, of self government….that was a very liberal idea and it still a very liberal idea…those who opposed democratic republicanism called themselves conservatives…however, today certain people have perverted the meanings of the honorable word “liberalism” and “conservatism”….anyone who declares himself/herself an ideological liberal or a conservative is a fool…There is no one pill for every disease..there is no one answer for every question…there is no one sho for every foot….there is no one ideology designed to solve every human problem….It is fine to have a liberl, conservative, radical or reactionary overview..but to think that there is a liberal answer for all problems or a conservative, radical or reactionary answer for allproblems is intellectual lunacy….each problem is unique and requires its own unique approach to solution…
I am a practical democratic capitalist..but not a laissez faire capitalist…I am a pragmatic democrat and a Democrat….
So, as i have already done for others, I will recommend a great little book, TODAYS ISMS by Ebenstein,..and WHITE COLLAR & THE POWER ELITE by C. Wright Mills, REVOLT OF THE MASSES by Jose Ortega y Gassett, SPOKESMEN FOR GOD by Edith Hamilton…and as much Thomas Jefferson as you can….especially where he talks about not “dressing a man in the clothes he wore as a boy” as a description of why the US must adapt to the realities of the times rather than hold on to thoughtless attitudes which reflect a fierce adherence to methods of governing when the US was a rural, simple, agrarian nation with very little involvement in international affairs…today we are a complex, urban, industrial, technological, global behemoth where individuals and nations can no longer deny our basic interdependence…thus, we must govern accordingly by broadening our scopes of reference and approaches to problems/solutions…
Can you imagine 8 million rugged individuals in New York City killing their own meat, tanning their own hides, making their own clothes, growing their own vegetables, building there own part of the street in front of their 40 story condo (one of hundreds of such residential towers on one small geographical spot of crowded humanity) providing for their own sewage, water, electricity, refuse service, transportation, etc? What a mess that would be…a hell of lot worse than it is now…The point is that we are doomed to cooperative interdependence whether we like it or not because we depend on so many other individuals and entities for our daily existence…..as TJ said, (paraphrased) “when the people go to piling on top of themselves as they have in the ghettos of Europe, the more interdependent society will be and the need for more government will exist…”
Im going to mull all this over, fact check and look up your reading suggestions -Thanks
Matt,
There is no perfect scenario for a government in the USA….there are 300 million plus in the US and we have to sahre the world with at least 6+ billion other humans at last count…each one of them has his/her own notions about perfect scenarios…none of them…none of us have a perfect scenario to prescribe….but we would get closer to an ideal if we would quit trying to cram our religious views down each others throats via force, cajolery, intolerance, etc.,….we would get a lot closer if were taught the virtues of and practiced pragmatism rather than ridged political, economic, religious, social ideology….there will be no heaven on this earth as so many perceive heaven to be…the reason we live is to deal with the world we live in until we die…..and hopefully preserve our souls in the process…we all have a contribution to make…if we could do that with intellectual humility rather than intellectual arrogance, we might get close to a better scenario…As a Presbyterian, I think we could do better if we “walked humbly with our Lord and let righteousness well up as a mighty stream”…if we would try to feed the hungry, minister to the ill, give drink to the thirsty, house the homeless, love our neighbor as ourselves and be good stewards of God’s creation, well, we would at least be better off than we are now…but that ideal is better to be wished for than hoped for or expected….to paraphrase St. Thomas More…but it is something to think about…
tax increases convinced the moguls of Wall Street and the banks that the Clinton government was actually seeking to balance the budget and develop a comprehensive approach to refurbishing the infrastructure and bringing about some stability across the economic strata….dot com, like the recent housing boom were important but mere blips on the economic terrain….Business interests, foreign and domestic were given some degree of confidence that the administration really cared about dealing with economic issues, world relationships and realities rather then just playing politics and seeking votes……Clinton passed the tax increase against 100% of the senate republicans..Gore had to break the tie..that was not a popular move on his part…Clinton put in his cabinet people who really cared about the whole picture rather than just the political picture…..remember, Newt Gingrich absolutely predicted that the sky would fall if Clinton’s tax increase passed..it did pass and the sky lighted up..it did not fall on us…..dot com didn’t create 22 million jobs…it was, at the time fairly limited to a very limited number of places in our geography..dot com was a boom & bust situation to begin with…and only a tiny segment of the total Clinton economy….You have been drinking too much of that right wing tea….the right wingers have never had an answer to the complexities of the US or world economic realities…they only screech outworn dogma that doesn’t apply to the modern world…or the modern USA….they constantly refer back to the US of the 1700’s rather than acknowledging the USA of the 21st Century in a global situation….that won’t do and has never done…they mention Thomas Jefferson all the time but they only limit him to a few sentences, not his whole body of ideas..
Going back several of your resposes to my questions. The stuff from TJ about people piling up, Yes there is a need for more government to a point, TJ would not be happy with all the things the gov is involved in now. And that is what Im saying in almost all of your scenarios or answers. We need to draw a line on entitlements and Government involvement. I can not say exactly where but I see it contiually growing and never having enough money to fund itself or its programs.
In the end I think we are saying somewhat the same thing. Again this is not a Zero sum game, there is a need for some Social programs but where do we stop, or tie it to Pop growth. For me a “simple person” to make things eaier to understand, I just vote for policies that are “supposed” to limit the growth and intrusiveness of the Gov. Boy I could talk to you forever, you either have a extensive library handy or you have a great memory. What do you think of voting third party?
third party voting is a wasted vote under current circumstances because a thrid party candidate, should he.she win, would be unable to govern because the major parties which rule the congress would be under no political obligation to work with that president…
as for government not being able to pay its bills, Bill Clinton had the advisors and the personal commitment to balance the budget and did…and that was the case when LBJ was president….the secret was that they knew how to deal with the realities of their times regarding budgets, taxes, fiscal necessities, et al….and they allowed the fed to work it monetary policy magic because they understood that fiscal policy (taxing and spending) can only take the economy and the federal budget fluctuations only so far…and that monetary (supply & cost of money) really had a greater influence on budgets and the economy than fiscal policy….they also understood the impact of world events on domestic economic and federal budgetary circumstances…Republicans think it is all about fiscal policy and have no real regard for the importance of monetary factors…which the fed controls…and the president doesn’t control…by statute…and that is why Republican administrations are so prone to serious recessions and drastic economic fluctuations…
you know, anytime I or anyone says something negative about a Bush (or RR or GHWB or Ike or Nixon or Ford) policy, domestic or foreign, right wingers take it as an opportunity to accuse those who don’t agree with this policy or that as evidence that we are anti American, that we want America to lose or that we are enemis of the state…..as if GWB is America..or that GHWB or RR, etc., are America. Listen, a president is no more that the CEO of the executive branch of the federal government…the founers did not intend to see a president as the “king” or the monarch….but as the head of 1/3 of the federal system….with the congress and the courts as co-equal branches…It is no more antiAmerican to criticize or demean a president (of either party) than it is to criticize the leadership of congress or the justices of the supreme court….but, it seems right wingers especially love to demean a Democratic president and they don’t see that as being anti American….All one need do is go back and look at the vicious things that were said about Clinton…Yep, right wingers can condemn a Democrat in the White House to virtual death and they think that is patriotic but when a Democrat says the slightest negative thing about a Republican president or policy, right wingers pull out that old crap that Dems are not patriotic, they don’t love God, they hate America, they are enemies of the state….Such BS as that….and, with that, they have spat in the face of the founders and the whole idea of free expression of ideas….they have no idea of Americanism and they do the bidding of our nations enemies when the practice that kind of demagoguery…..and then they are dumbfounded and shocked when a liberal or Dem plays the same game and accuses them of being fascistic…..When I criticize a president, it is because i disagree with him (so far) and it does not mean that I hate God, America, apple pie, Chevrolet and the American way or even that president…it merely means I disagree with the president…Democrat or Republican….I even went to Nixon’s funeral..and shed sincere tears because, for all of his foibles & mistakes, I believe he loved America and thought that what he was doing was right….I worked for LBJ..I loved him as a person and as a leader because i had known him from my childhood…..but i disagreed with some of his policies and i said so & I cried at his funeral too….LBJ never accused me of being anti American because I disagreed with this or that policy…and neither did Lady Bird or the girls…But right wingers hated him and damned him unmercifully…they even called Lady Bird a communist because she had a big nose and was obviously a Jewis (which she was not..Her maiden name was Taylor and she was an Episcopaliean) and therefore she must be a communist because Marx was a Jew and the first communist…that is the way right and left wing lunatics think…it is sad and disgusting….but legal in the USA….so, my word to the lunatics, is that if want to dish it out, you damned well better be able to take it….
Matt,
if you vote for the policies that limit the growth and intrusiveness of government, you should really have had problems with the initiatives of Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2…and expecially Dick Cheney….those presidents have done everything they could to extend the power of government into bedrooms, boardrooms, city councils, state houses, etc..more than any Democratic president ever did….as objective history proves…the whole idea of the Unitary Executive is a prescription for pervasive and intrusive government..that is the whole idea behind the NEW WORLD ORDER and the Corporate National Security State proferred by the Republican party..The Republican party has been the biggest bait and switch political party in history..and shallow headed Americans who have been fooled once and twice and three times by Republican chicanery should be ashamed….
What specifically have those Republican presidents done to increase the govs inrusivness? Bush 2 that is an easy one, but what of the others?
Well Harley and Matt, this has been an interesting read and probably almost the most rational comments to date. I am not as well read as Harley but I am probably close to the same age so I have seen a bit in my lifetime. Mostly my reading went along the scientific path. But research is my game so I do throughly research the candidates. I am a research scientist but got there the long way. Grew up on a Texas farm, Mom of 5 kids, went back to college when the youngest got into Jr. High went on to get my PhD also. Worked for the FEDS as a research scientist for 10 years then started my own biotech company, semi-retired and built another small business. My husband worked for a huge electronics corporation for 44 years. So I have a bit of experience when it comes to small businesses and big business. I agree with a lot of your thoughts but believe you have leaned a bit too far in some areas. One statement in particular in comparing the Clinton balanced budget to Bush 2. In talking about the founding fathers..they also understood the impact of world events……..because of world events, we really cannot rightfully compare the Nixon or Bush I or II to Clinton or LBJ. Nam started with Kennedy & LBJ but LBJ walked away and left it to Nixon to finish the long hard road (Kissenger’s “Diplomacy”). Bush I had the first Iraq war be it quite short and Bush II had 9/11 and two wars. That complicates economic comparisons of their presidency’s.
“It is no more antiAmerican to criticize or demean a president (of either party) than it is to criticize the leadership of congress or the justices of the supreme court.” Absolutely….but it cuts both ways, everyone just forgets that when it is their “side”.
I have voted both republican and democratic throughout my lifetime. First, I look at the character of the man/woman. If their character can’t stand up to scrutiny then I do not have confidence their government be it democrate or republican can either. Sometimes it is the “lesser of two evils”. Which is what I think we have now.
It is a different world today, a global world which a lot of people seem to not understand. The latest economic crisis should have clearly shown us that. I have traveled all over the world as a scientist, worked with people trying to better their country’s agriculture so I have seen western Europe and 3rd world countries up close and personal. You are right only a few in the U.S. or western europe could make it out there without all of our new toys. Western Europe has become less innovative and the third world is becoming more innovative. But there is still so much of the world that does not have all of our new toys. There is always a balance between too much government and too little government as a country progresses. I personally think that to stay innovative and competitive, we have to nurture small businesses as well as big business. It takes us all to make a country, consumers can become both consumer and maybe small businesses, and small businesses become consumers of big business and sometimes even big businesses themselves. We cannot neglect any of them. We have a graduated tax system. We should not skew it too far either way. Why should we want to skewer either the consumer, small business, or big business. We are all interdependent. Increase the taxes too much on businesses, whether large or small and you will inhibit innovation and willingness to take risks to make things better. If prices of products become too high, consumers have the ultimate control….don’t buy what you don’t have to have. I am tired of people demonizing big corporations and rich people….they are as important to our economy as anyone. How much is too much profit? Are we going to regulate how much profit someone can make…..in literal dollars or percentage of gross or????? I’ve been a millionaire. Got there through hard work, and I’ve been poor….I want to know where all those tax breaks for the rich are? The only ones I ever saw was to invest in the economy so I did. But you eventually pay the piper if you cash out your business.
Genes and Harley
Love it that we got another calm voice involved, Im just a Diesel mech with an AS and a AA. But I try to read alot, and have the perspective of someone from the country where you do not have extensive infrastructure and find most of the time it is unnecassary. But I would like to hear more definitive statements. Looking at which policies do you intelligent people think will allow OUR country to continue with about the same High standards of living. Also I would like to hear your input on the need for more transfer of wealth, and the idea that the wealthy need to pay more than someone else. I do not think someone that uses the same amout of resources as I do should pay anymore. What of the great society. I would like to hear from both of you on thes specific problems that way heavily upon my mind. I listen to my Liberal freinds but do not understand most of their arquments, either they want to enhance themselves with someone elses money “taxes -entitlements” or they really think that we can eliminate the poor and down trodden by high tax’s and more social programs.
Would really like to hear comments or answers to these. Specifically! I have already voted but I am researching these Ideas in my blue collar way.
Thanks again.
matt,
You say you have a problem with the rich having to pay more taxes than others….well, Matt, most of them don’t, after all is said and done, pay the same percentage of their earnings as the middle class, especially the lower middle income earners….Because of the tax code, I rarely ever pay more than 10% of my significant earnings in federal income taxes…I pay the legal amount due on my taxable income, which, after all of the implications of the federal tax code, is significantly less than my actual annual earnings…that is why the wealthy & corps, which control over 90% of US wealth only pay 40%-45% of the tax burden and the 5% who control 5%-10% of the nations remaining wealth pay approximately 55%-60% of the tax burden…You can’t count the poverty class because they don’t earn enough to pay taxes at all….Any wealthy person who pays more than 10% of their annual earnings (or more than the legal limit on their taxable income is not taking advantage of the federal tax code…Now mind you, we are talking about the federal tax code, not the tax codes of the fifty states…The feds cannot be held responsible for the tax laws and taxes paid in the various states…Most people, when they complain about “the government” don’t seemto comprehend that there is a “the government” but that are many governments: county, municipal, school district, hospital districts, water districts, junior college district, state and federal….so, thise who lump them all together don’t seem to grasp the federalist nature of our system and they lump them all together for political posturing reasons just to confuse the citizen….
Why, Matt, should the middle class tax payer have to give his tax dollars on top of what he has to pay for gas at the pump to corporations to oil companies which make multi $billions of net profit annually…Say Exxon-Mobil which makes multi $billion quarterly profits and gets multi $billion tax breaks, subsidies and incentive packages..and, in effect, pays no taxes at all…That isn’t capitalism..It is corporate welfare….and, when all is said and done, the giant oil companies don’t do anything with those incentive tax breaks and subsidies..the facts are that oil production companies have actually been flat for the past ten years when it comes to searching for new reserves and drilling where there are known reserves…..instead, they screech about needing to drill in the deep Gulf of Mexico and ANWR…where they know there are more reserves in the available National Oil Reserves Alaska (NORA) & where they already have the permists to drill and produce than there are reserves in ANWR…The reality is that they don’t want to flood the market with more crude because they know that the more the supply, the lower the ultimate price at the pump will be..and the lower their profit will be…they can legally make up to 15% profit on their refined product…15% of $4/gal gas reaps more net in real dollars than 15% of $2.50/gal gasoline…they know the formula for screwing taxpayers and consumers and the taxpayers and consumers seem to fall for thier lineof crap everytime…well, because they have us by the gonads if we want to remain mobile.
I am sure you voted for Palin…Well, she runs a socialist state under the Republican definition of socialism…Alaskans, by law, get approximately $3000/person/annum from the oil companies..that is wealth redistribution…When she talks about Obama’s tax plan as being socialistic, she is speaking out of both sides of her mouth and her rectum…you and she can’t have both sides of that argument…
Matt & Genes,
Since the editor of this site doesn’t appear to believe in free speech, especially if it doesn’t jive with his/her political-economic-social viewpoint, you can email me and we can have an off-site discussion anytime you want…
why type a comment? You won’t post it anyway….the truth hurts you right wing dogs, therefore you quash it…
Harley and Matt
Well so much for rational discussions. I think Harley has a some sort of complex. He is way off the mark in his facts in his latest long post. One question….what would you do if there were no big corporations in the world. What would our world look like. When I said “that’s not fair” to my mom, when I didn’t like something, her answer was “no one ever promised us life would be fair, what is fair to you might not be fair to your neighbor” When I complained that someone was interfering in my right to do something, my Dad’s answer was always…”remember honey, your rights only go as far as the next fellows nose”. My parents didn’t have the education I was able to attain but their wisdom was much greater than most highly educated people I have met throughout my life. Sometimes we just need to boil things down to real life.
Matt,
Both the rich and the poor will be with us always. There are many rich people and corporations who do wonderful work in the U.S. as well as in more unfortunate parts of the world. Each of us has the opportunity to do likewise. Our nation does wonderful work here and abroad. We cannot solve all of the poors problems either here or abroad but we certainly can address those most vulnerable members of society. We have poor who through no fault of their own, simply cannot make it on their own. We have poor who simply do not want to work. We have poor without enough education to lift themselves up. And we have poor who are doing the best they can but just don’t have the right incentive. Where do we begin. Is it fair to help those who simply do not want to work and thus take away resources from those who through no fault of their own can’t. I think not. Better education….let’s worry more about seeing that every child has a good foundation and not so much on an array of special programs. With a solid foundation in the basics, a child from a small rural town can do just as well as one from a big city with all of the curriculum choices in the world.
Not every person will, can or should aspire to big things. It takes all levels of people to make a society and each is as important as the other. Should we therefore all be compensated equally? A big question today as to what that entails. But if everyone were to be compensated the same, where would be the incentive for a huge proportion of the population to work hard and achieve. Answers are not black and white. The world is gray in many areas.
genes and matt,
I love it that we have giant corporations. That isn’t the issue and genes, you know it. The issue is that you both screech about capitalism and against socialism but you seem to support socialism when it comes to taking care of the giant corps who don’t really need the help and you disdain any kind of similar welfare when it comes to helping the working poor become consumers who have the capability of buying the goods and services produced by the giant corporations…which leads me to believe, genes, that you have never really studied economics and you have no idea what seeding the clouds means…so quit with the ridiculously oiversimplified crap, OK! Debate like an educated adult rather than a brainwashed child….in her 60’s…If you can’t get serious about the issues, don’t waste my time or yours with the flapdoodle you are spewing….or, I guess, you have degenerated into your second childhood somewhat early…I have several companies…significantly successful and large in the fields of endeavor…I use the tax laws to legally minimize my tax liabilities as an individual and as a corporatist but i don’t ask for any personal or corporate welfare..I don’t need it and most of the giant corporations which are beneficiaries of federal government largesse don’t need it either…
Hello Harley,
I see you are back. Sorry you don’t appreciate my flapdoodle. I don’t appreciate your venom. You are right, I have never studied economics, just practiced economics. But as a scientist, I do know about actual cloud seeding. Doesn’t work very well in practice, doesn’t result in much rain. However, if I am a farmer, I watch the weather and make the most of what rain comes if I want to be successful. How much have you done to help the poor?
You missed the mark….I am not in my 60s, try 70’s. There is a lot to be said about watching the world for so long. Now you are really starting to sound like a true Obama fan…..they are soooo good at spewing hate on the web. One of the reasons I will not be voting for him. He inspires more hatred than kindness. … and now we begin to see the real Harley. I’m disappointed.
I am very serious about the issues but I don’t think you want a real debate. You only want everyone to buy your scenarios and spew venom when they don’t or they question them. I look at the issues and evaluate them based on good old common sense, life experience, and ethics after I have looked at all sides. There is no perfect system. Republicans and Democrates both have their achilles heel. So do you and so do I.
So long Harley, try to look at life a little more pleasantly and objectively.
“Spread the wealth around”
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” — Winston Churchill, 1948
“The recurrence of periods of depression and mass unemployment has discredited capitalism in the opinion of injudicious people. Yet these events are not the outcome of the operation of the free market. They are on the contrary the result of well-intentioned but ill-advised government interference with the market.” — Ludwig von Mises
“Collectivism doesn’t work because it’s based on a faulty economic premise. There is no such thing as a person’s ‘fair share’ of wealth. The gross national product is not a pizza that must be carefully divided because if I get too many slices, you have to eat the box. The economy is expandable and, in any practical sense, limitless.”
— P.J. O’Rourke
“The people cannot delegate to government the power to do anything which would be an unlawful for them to do themselves.”
John Locke
“A society that puts equality ahead of freedom will end up with neither.”
Milton Friedman
“No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man.” Ayn Rand
“When the government fears the people, it is liberty. When the people fear the government, it is tyranny.”
Thomas Paine
“Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom.”
Albert Einstein
“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.”
George Bernard Shaw
Dear genes,
Well, genes, it was you who intimated that you might be in my same age bracket in your first post to me and matt…I am only 66…and in my life I have given significantly through my own foundation and church to projects which help the old, the sick, the poor, dependent children, the environment, wildlife habitat, medical research, assistance to those who need financial help to go to college, etc…
Regarding the debate, you come across with glittering generalities rather than dollars and cents facts and figures to argue your points….go back and read some of your posts….and reagarding farming, well, I am a rancher who grows feed crops as well as cattle…and I do watch the rain…sometimes it comes at the wrong time for me and sometimes is comes at the right time..sometimes it doesn’t even come at all…..Oh, and regarding the length of time you have observed the world, I will only say that time is significant but context is also significant…and I will venture to say that I have observed life from significantly more venues that you have…and i will be happy to compare those with yours…but you can’t make stuff up..you have to tell the truth….regarding economics, we all practice one kind of economics or another, even those of you who haven’t studied it…but, knowing why economic conditions are what they are or are not requires some understanding of economic principles…it is one thing to live through, say, a depression, and quite another to grasp the factors which may or may not have caused the depression…so, I will recommend some worthwhile books for you…as I did for matt…TODAYS ISMS by Ebenstein…THE REVOLT OF THE MASSES by Jose Ortega y Gassett…SPOKESMEN FOR GOD by Edith Hamilton….WHITE COLLAR & THE POWER ELITE by C. Wright Mills….just to mention a few…but i am sure you are not really interested in expanding your thought base because you are sure that there is one answer for all questions…a reactionary answer….so you won’t bother to even look at those books, much less expend the intellectual effort to read them…and that won’t do in the real, complex world we live in today…that is why I am a pragmatist rather than a liberal, conservative, radical or reactionary….I look for solutions that fit the problem rather than a problem to fit that one answer ideologues always seem to have… rigid ideology is a barrier to finding solutions because it presupposes the solution rather than the intellectually honest approach…..that is, matching the unique solution to the unique problem…and all political, economic, social issues are, in and of themselves unique & seeking whatever soltuon that will work rather than implying that there is a conservative solution to all problems..or, in the case of the other isms, a liberal answer to all questions or a reactionary answer or a radical answer….sometimes, there may be a combination of the isms that may solve a probelm….but, for certain, no doctor prescribes the same pill or procedure to every malady he faces in a days work in his clinic…nor does a teacher provide the same answer to every question posed by his/her students…but ideologues can’t do that..and that is why narrow ideology is a barrier to problem solving….and if that is a venomous response to you, so be it…
a question: is it capitalism to take from the middle class taxpayer and give to enormously profitable oil companies?
someone of you who think you are true capitalists, give me an answer to that, please!
someone in a previous post quoted Locke as implying that the government should not do for the people what the people can do for themselves…I posed that to William F. Buckley once when he made that same assertion during a debate with JK Galbraith at Texas A&M University…Texas A&M is a state supported university but the first universities were not state supported and there are numerous universities all over the US which are supported, not by taxpayers, but by private contributions…so I asked Buckley why taxpayers had to pay for all the state colleges and universities when it is perfectly clear that the people could have and have supported private colleges & universities, thank you very much? He choked and waffled and stammered and stuttered a little bit and never answered the question…So, to the capitalist purist, I suppose we can pick and choose, according to our own proclivites, what we can allow capitalism to do and what it can’t do…the point is that right wingers in religion, economics and politics just can’t gut it up….they continuously want to pick and choose and condemn anyone who doesn’t see fit to pick and choose exactly as they, the so’called “purists” pick and choose..in other words, they want it both ways…and that ain’t gonna happen!!!!!! On one hand they condemn the liberals for wanting to give the struggling middle class a “progressive” tax break and on the other hand, they want to give extra profitable companies every tax break known to man, woman and child and maybe even maggots….in other words, it is okay to redistribute the wealth from the poor and middle classes to the rich but it a travesty to take a dime from the rich and give it to the poor and middle class….I call that forked tongued and convoluted logic and certainly hypocritical and intellectually bankrupt…but that tendency is typical of rigid ideologues on both ends of the spectrum..
well Harley, you seem to have done everything, been everything and know everything and everybody. Good for you. Now if you can just learn to respect your fellow man whether they meet your “standards” or not.
Harley,
I have studied all of the isms, the governments practicing them and all of the great religions as well as minor ones in quite some depth but I don’t feel the need to debate them at all. They are what they are.
I am quite sure that your venues are different than mine. I like the ones I have and they have provided me with an interesting look and interaction with people and agencies in many countries. You take your venues and I’ll take mine. That doesn’t make mine anymore important than yours or yours more important than mine. They just are.
We do agree on solutions to problems. As a scientist I identify the problem and look for knowledge and techniques that can be useful to address the problem. A scientist who takes a technique and looks for a problem that can be addressed with that technique is usually a weak scientist. Along with that is a truism in science….nature is conservative. When addressing a scientific problem….start with that premise. Works pretty well in other areas as well.