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	<title>Comments on: More Leftist child abuse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: Hazumu Osaragi</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85119</link>
		<dc:creator>Hazumu Osaragi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85119</guid>
		<description>Dear G.F.;

I see that you suffer from homochromosexuality, 
http://www.intersexualite.org/Homochromosexuality.pdf
the irrational belief in the face of factual evidence that maleness and femaleness is determined exclusively by whether the 23d pair of human chromosomes is XX or XY.  The International Olympic Committee stopped testing athletes because they found XYs that had menstruated and given birth, and XX that had fathered children...

You are also an Oppositional Sexist, believing that there are only two sexes, and that they are opposites, and that there is a wide no-mans-land between men and women -- almost as if men and women were as different as dogs and cats.

Have you ever beaten up a faggot for being a fruity faggot? (I believe you won&#039;t mind me using such un-PC terms on your site.) Then you suffer from effemimania, where feminine behaviour in individuals you believe to be male or by those who obviously transgress the rigid gender boundaries you believe to be, cause you to behave irrationally and often violently towards them.

You can&#039;t catch &#039;gay&#039; or &#039;trans&#039;.  It catches you...

And while I&#039;m at it, why is it that women act feminine, while those whose bodies are male who display the same behaviour are described by the negative term, &#039;effeminate?&#039;

That children are too young to make a determination that they are born into the wrong body is a very truthy idea.  In fact, your whole position as stated in this blog entry is suffused in truthiness.

But, I don&#039;t trust the words &#039;truth&#039; or &#039;right&#039;, because the meanings of those words have been co-opted in much the same way that the word &#039;gay&#039; can never ever again describe a lightness of spirit...

Thank you for providing me a space with which to exercise one of the five &#039;rights&#039; of enumerated in the U.S. Constitution&#039;s First 
Ammendment;

Hazumu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear G.F.;</p>
<p>I see that you suffer from homochromosexuality,<br />
<a href="http://www.intersexualite.org/Homochromosexuality.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.intersexualite.org/Homochromosexuality.pdf</a><br />
the irrational belief in the face of factual evidence that maleness and femaleness is determined exclusively by whether the 23d pair of human chromosomes is XX or XY.  The International Olympic Committee stopped testing athletes because they found XYs that had menstruated and given birth, and XX that had fathered children&#8230;</p>
<p>You are also an Oppositional Sexist, believing that there are only two sexes, and that they are opposites, and that there is a wide no-mans-land between men and women &#8212; almost as if men and women were as different as dogs and cats.</p>
<p>Have you ever beaten up a faggot for being a fruity faggot? (I believe you won&#8217;t mind me using such un-PC terms on your site.) Then you suffer from effemimania, where feminine behaviour in individuals you believe to be male or by those who obviously transgress the rigid gender boundaries you believe to be, cause you to behave irrationally and often violently towards them.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t catch &#8216;gay&#8217; or &#8216;trans&#8217;.  It catches you&#8230;</p>
<p>And while I&#8217;m at it, why is it that women act feminine, while those whose bodies are male who display the same behaviour are described by the negative term, &#8216;effeminate?&#8217;</p>
<p>That children are too young to make a determination that they are born into the wrong body is a very truthy idea.  In fact, your whole position as stated in this blog entry is suffused in truthiness.</p>
<p>But, I don&#8217;t trust the words &#8216;truth&#8217; or &#8216;right&#8217;, because the meanings of those words have been co-opted in much the same way that the word &#8216;gay&#8217; can never ever again describe a lightness of spirit&#8230;</p>
<p>Thank you for providing me a space with which to exercise one of the five &#8216;rights&#8217; of enumerated in the U.S. Constitution&#8217;s First<br />
Ammendment;</p>
<p>Hazumu</p>
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		<title>By: The Machine</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85115</link>
		<dc:creator>The Machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85115</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Pagan Kennedy&lt;/b&gt; 


What&#039;s in a name? 


!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Pagan Kennedy</b> </p>
<p>What&#8217;s in a name? </p>
<p>!</p>
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		<title>By: Simone</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85113</link>
		<dc:creator>Simone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85113</guid>
		<description>G.F.

I&#039;d like to correct you on the genetic determinacy of gender. I&#039;ve never made that claim, though I have refuted it a few times. Gender identity is determined in-utero by hormonal action. As to the age of three to seven - that is the age at which a child typically becomes aware of his or her gender identity, not the age at which it is formed.

The argument of science not always equalling truth: absolutely I agree with you. Science has gotten it wrong at many times in the past, and will continue to do so. Equally though, the same may be said of religion. It was not all that long ago that I would&#039;ve faced being burnt at the stake for believing, contrary to church teachings, that the earth was round and orbits the sun. Science at least takes the stand-point that you only believe something if you have demonstrable, repeatable evidence for it. You might be interpreting that evidence incorrectly, but it is there for the next person to come along, investigate, and hopefully improve on the interpretation.

This a disorder. We agree. It is however, not psychological, but demonstrably biological in origin. All the internalised self-loathing and anger and frustration - now that&#039;s psychological.

~Simone</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.F.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to correct you on the genetic determinacy of gender. I&#8217;ve never made that claim, though I have refuted it a few times. Gender identity is determined in-utero by hormonal action. As to the age of three to seven &#8211; that is the age at which a child typically becomes aware of his or her gender identity, not the age at which it is formed.</p>
<p>The argument of science not always equalling truth: absolutely I agree with you. Science has gotten it wrong at many times in the past, and will continue to do so. Equally though, the same may be said of religion. It was not all that long ago that I would&#8217;ve faced being burnt at the stake for believing, contrary to church teachings, that the earth was round and orbits the sun. Science at least takes the stand-point that you only believe something if you have demonstrable, repeatable evidence for it. You might be interpreting that evidence incorrectly, but it is there for the next person to come along, investigate, and hopefully improve on the interpretation.</p>
<p>This a disorder. We agree. It is however, not psychological, but demonstrably biological in origin. All the internalised self-loathing and anger and frustration &#8211; now that&#8217;s psychological.</p>
<p>~Simone</p>
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		<title>By: DW</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85111</link>
		<dc:creator>DW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85111</guid>
		<description>Simone,
Sounds like more trouble than it&#039;s worth--for me, anyway. Sounds expensive too. I think I&#039;ll just keep shaving. Thanks for the info.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simone,<br />
Sounds like more trouble than it&#8217;s worth&#8211;for me, anyway. Sounds expensive too. I think I&#8217;ll just keep shaving. Thanks for the info.</p>
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		<title>By: G.F.</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85110</link>
		<dc:creator>G.F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85110</guid>
		<description>&quot;Science&quot; and truth don&#039;t always match up Simone.  &quot;Science&quot; has been used to advance some of the most pernicious and calamitous ideas in the history of mankind.  There are &quot;scientists&quot; around that will confirm pretty much anything you can imagine and those who want confirmation of particular ideas will take refuge where they can find it.  For example, in another forum, you made the declaration that sexual orientation is genetically-determined.  You know that has not been found to be true in any serious study, yet you make the claim.  You also claim in another forum that &quot;gender identity&quot; is determined between ages 3 and 7, yet you make contradictory claims in this forum about &quot;gender identity&quot; being determined in utero.  So which is it?  What does your &quot;science&quot; really tell you?

I concede, I am making ideological arguments, because this is an ideological debate.  You seem to think that an appeal to &quot;science&quot; should chasten one into finding competing &quot;science&quot; or shutting up.  No dice.  &quot;Science&quot; is not free from ideological bias and consequences, so please don&#039;t pretend that it is.  

I truly have compassion for you and the trials you&#039;ve faced in life.  I don&#039;t doubt that your struggles have been very real and there may have been some physical basis to those struggles along with the psychological issues.  But, as you have acknowledged, this is a disorder, primarily psychological.  

The only other procedure I can think of in which psychological disorders were treated with irreversible surgery is the lobotomy.  I hope, for the sake of future human beings who are struggling with this, that &quot;sex reassignment&quot; and other &quot;treatments&quot; along this spectrum go the way of the lobotomy and we get people real help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Science&#8221; and truth don&#8217;t always match up Simone.  &#8220;Science&#8221; has been used to advance some of the most pernicious and calamitous ideas in the history of mankind.  There are &#8220;scientists&#8221; around that will confirm pretty much anything you can imagine and those who want confirmation of particular ideas will take refuge where they can find it.  For example, in another forum, you made the declaration that sexual orientation is genetically-determined.  You know that has not been found to be true in any serious study, yet you make the claim.  You also claim in another forum that &#8220;gender identity&#8221; is determined between ages 3 and 7, yet you make contradictory claims in this forum about &#8220;gender identity&#8221; being determined in utero.  So which is it?  What does your &#8220;science&#8221; really tell you?</p>
<p>I concede, I am making ideological arguments, because this is an ideological debate.  You seem to think that an appeal to &#8220;science&#8221; should chasten one into finding competing &#8220;science&#8221; or shutting up.  No dice.  &#8220;Science&#8221; is not free from ideological bias and consequences, so please don&#8217;t pretend that it is.  </p>
<p>I truly have compassion for you and the trials you&#8217;ve faced in life.  I don&#8217;t doubt that your struggles have been very real and there may have been some physical basis to those struggles along with the psychological issues.  But, as you have acknowledged, this is a disorder, primarily psychological.  </p>
<p>The only other procedure I can think of in which psychological disorders were treated with irreversible surgery is the lobotomy.  I hope, for the sake of future human beings who are struggling with this, that &#8220;sex reassignment&#8221; and other &#8220;treatments&#8221; along this spectrum go the way of the lobotomy and we get people real help.</p>
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		<title>By: Simone</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85109</link>
		<dc:creator>Simone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85109</guid>
		<description>DW,

Yeah
it will take a few years, and it is rather painful, but electrolysis is guaranteed permanent, while laser will dramatically reduce your beard, and may, if you are lucky, even remove it completely.

Just be aware: This is NOT fun. I do about an hour of electrolysis a week, with the tech inserting a needle into the follicle, zapping it with a thousand volts or so, and then pulling it out with a tweezer. You have about a 20% chance of the hair being killed for good, otherwise it grows back finer and weaker. The average number of times per hair is 5 or 6, and hairs are done individually, which is why it takes so long. Laser is quicker, but not guaranteed, and one typically goes for multiple sessions over the course of two or three years to get everything.

~Simone.

~Simone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DW,</p>
<p>Yeah<br />
it will take a few years, and it is rather painful, but electrolysis is guaranteed permanent, while laser will dramatically reduce your beard, and may, if you are lucky, even remove it completely.</p>
<p>Just be aware: This is NOT fun. I do about an hour of electrolysis a week, with the tech inserting a needle into the follicle, zapping it with a thousand volts or so, and then pulling it out with a tweezer. You have about a 20% chance of the hair being killed for good, otherwise it grows back finer and weaker. The average number of times per hair is 5 or 6, and hairs are done individually, which is why it takes so long. Laser is quicker, but not guaranteed, and one typically goes for multiple sessions over the course of two or three years to get everything.</p>
<p>~Simone.</p>
<p>~Simone.</p>
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		<title>By: ArmyMouse</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85108</link>
		<dc:creator>ArmyMouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85108</guid>
		<description>Prayers are great but they rarely accomplish anything. I prayed for over ten years every night that I would wake up in the correct sex but nothing happen. Children may not be able to make some decisions as well as adults but gender identity is something that forms very early on and can be clearly observed in the natural habits of such a child. Denying a child necessary treatment for a medical condition on the grounds that they cannot know what is best for them is incorrect in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prayers are great but they rarely accomplish anything. I prayed for over ten years every night that I would wake up in the correct sex but nothing happen. Children may not be able to make some decisions as well as adults but gender identity is something that forms very early on and can be clearly observed in the natural habits of such a child. Denying a child necessary treatment for a medical condition on the grounds that they cannot know what is best for them is incorrect in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Simone</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85107</link>
		<dc:creator>Simone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85107</guid>
		<description>G.F.

I knew at the age of four that there was something wrong, that my mind and body didn&#039;t match up. By the time I hit 13 I was so screwed up by the bigotry and misinformation I had encountered that I buried myself in denial for the next 12 years before accepting myself. It&#039;s not a cold, sterile dismissal, but a cold hard truth. Gender Identity Disorder isn&#039;t a phase, and it doesn&#039;t just go away. It grows stronger and stronger until you either accept and deal with it or kill yourself. I was very close to the latter at a few points in my life.

As to your arguments: You never actually seem to address the science of this matter. You argue from a purely ideological point of view, and you and I both know that ideological debates never accomplish anything. If you would like to argue the evidence though, I would be happy to engage in conversation.

~Simone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.F.</p>
<p>I knew at the age of four that there was something wrong, that my mind and body didn&#8217;t match up. By the time I hit 13 I was so screwed up by the bigotry and misinformation I had encountered that I buried myself in denial for the next 12 years before accepting myself. It&#8217;s not a cold, sterile dismissal, but a cold hard truth. Gender Identity Disorder isn&#8217;t a phase, and it doesn&#8217;t just go away. It grows stronger and stronger until you either accept and deal with it or kill yourself. I was very close to the latter at a few points in my life.</p>
<p>As to your arguments: You never actually seem to address the science of this matter. You argue from a purely ideological point of view, and you and I both know that ideological debates never accomplish anything. If you would like to argue the evidence though, I would be happy to engage in conversation.</p>
<p>~Simone.</p>
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		<title>By: DW</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85106</link>
		<dc:creator>DW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85106</guid>
		<description>I am an adult heterosexual man who is happy with the way I was born. But I hate shaving. And I look awful with a beard. Simone, am I to understand that it is possible for me to have all my facial hair removed so that it will never grow back, and I&#039;ll never have to shave again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an adult heterosexual man who is happy with the way I was born. But I hate shaving. And I look awful with a beard. Simone, am I to understand that it is possible for me to have all my facial hair removed so that it will never grow back, and I&#8217;ll never have to shave again?</p>
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		<title>By: G.F.</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/04/20/more-leftist-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-85105</link>
		<dc:creator>G.F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheaclu.com/?p=8340#comment-85105</guid>
		<description>Simone --

You can&#039;t fathom how disturbing your comment is in its cold, sterile dismissal of the dangers in experimenting on children like this.

The &quot;worse that can happen&quot; is &quot;breast reduction&quot; or &quot;electrolysis to remove facial hair&quot;?!?!  Are you mad?

&quot;The moment the patient comes off of them, puberty takes place normally, just a bit later than normal, but the child will develop and mature perfectly well.&quot;

You just don&#039;t know this, you don&#039;t.  Even if it is true, it matters little.  Visiting havoc on the body and mind of a child is a criminal act.  I don&#039;t see how you could be so ho-hum about somehting so extreme.  

I guess you can argue that a 12- or 13-year-old can do enormous amounts of cocaine and turn out normal.  What if that child really WANTS to do that cocaine and the feeling he gets while on cocaine is central to his identity?  Shouldn&#039;t we let him be who he is?  After all, cocaine&#039;s impact on the body and possibly the mind of a child is not as radical as massive doses of hormones that body doesn&#039;t produce naturally.  (Please don&#039;t give me the &quot;cocaine is illegal&quot; line -- it&#039;s irrelevant to the point I&#039;m making)

Children of this age are in no position, even with parental consent, to make decisions like this.  Adults should not be advancing and encouraging a further spiral into a life of mental illness by allowing their irrational children to harm themselves like this.  If a child wanted to sever his legs because he felt in his heart that he were an amputee, we wouldn&#039;t advocate allowing that...would we?  We would get the poor kid help in a normal world.

This is part of a sick political agenda that has no problem sacrificing children in its advancement. 

ArmyMouse -- I will pray for you today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simone &#8211;</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t fathom how disturbing your comment is in its cold, sterile dismissal of the dangers in experimenting on children like this.</p>
<p>The &#8220;worse that can happen&#8221; is &#8220;breast reduction&#8221; or &#8220;electrolysis to remove facial hair&#8221;?!?!  Are you mad?</p>
<p>&#8220;The moment the patient comes off of them, puberty takes place normally, just a bit later than normal, but the child will develop and mature perfectly well.&#8221;</p>
<p>You just don&#8217;t know this, you don&#8217;t.  Even if it is true, it matters little.  Visiting havoc on the body and mind of a child is a criminal act.  I don&#8217;t see how you could be so ho-hum about somehting so extreme.  </p>
<p>I guess you can argue that a 12- or 13-year-old can do enormous amounts of cocaine and turn out normal.  What if that child really WANTS to do that cocaine and the feeling he gets while on cocaine is central to his identity?  Shouldn&#8217;t we let him be who he is?  After all, cocaine&#8217;s impact on the body and possibly the mind of a child is not as radical as massive doses of hormones that body doesn&#8217;t produce naturally.  (Please don&#8217;t give me the &#8220;cocaine is illegal&#8221; line &#8212; it&#8217;s irrelevant to the point I&#8217;m making)</p>
<p>Children of this age are in no position, even with parental consent, to make decisions like this.  Adults should not be advancing and encouraging a further spiral into a life of mental illness by allowing their irrational children to harm themselves like this.  If a child wanted to sever his legs because he felt in his heart that he were an amputee, we wouldn&#8217;t advocate allowing that&#8230;would we?  We would get the poor kid help in a normal world.</p>
<p>This is part of a sick political agenda that has no problem sacrificing children in its advancement. </p>
<p>ArmyMouse &#8212; I will pray for you today.</p>
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