Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Posted on October 27, 2007
The argument is between the word “may” and “shall”. If you oblige, it would be an interesting conversation in the comments.
A 14-year-old girl and her outspoken atheist father filed a federal lawsuit Friday challenging a new Illinois law requiring a brief period of prayer or reflective silence at the start of every school day.
The lawsuit asks the court to declare the law unconstitutional, said attorney Gregory Kulis, who represents Dawn Sherman, a freshman at Buffalo Grove High School, and her father Robert Sherman, a radio talk show host.
Kulis said the law is an attempt to inject religion into public schools in violation of the First Amendment. The suit also seeks a temporary restraining order to halt schools’ obeying the law until the case is decided. A judge will consider that request at a hearing Monday.
The lawsuit names Gov. Rod Blagojevich and officials of Township High School District 214 as defendants. School district spokeswoman Venetia Miles said schools will continue to comply with the law.
Blagojevich spokesman Abby Ottenhoff said the law was passed over the governor’s veto.
“We don’t believe requiring time for reflection is the role of government,” Ottenhoff said.
Sherman said he went to court after he asked the school board to ignore the law and was rebuffed. The school district informed him it would carry out the moment of silence during third period, beginning Tuesday, the lawsuit said.
“What we object to is Christians passing a law that requires the public school teacher to stop teaching during instructional time, paid for by the taxpayers, so that Christians can pray,” Sherman told The Associated Press.
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: “may” observe became “shall” observe.
The Illinois law originally passed during the spring legislative session, but Blagojevich vetoed it, saying he had doubts about its constitutionality. Lawmakers overrode the veto this month.
It’s not Sherman’s first church-and-state lawsuit and not the first to involve his children. He has sought removal of religious symbols from city seals and a ban on Boy Scout meetings at public schools.
Perhaps the Shermans have a legitmate point? Do you think they are suing the correct party? Should they be suing the school district for following the law, or those that make the law? Should the ACLU get involved? I’m intentionally not interjecting my own opinon on this one in hopes that it garners a conversation in the comments. Something this site is lacking in.
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, ACLU, Church And State, News
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29 Responses to “Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law”
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The have no evidence to back up their accusation. They can not show damages. In both cases a just court would throw the case out. I doubt that will happen because the courts are corrupt.
Actually, I don’t think the “may”/”shall” change is relevant. I see it boiling down to one question: Is it constitutional for a public school to observe a daily “silent reflection and student prayer”?
I don’t see why it would matter if the school administration has discretion or not.
My question is why the government even runs and is responsible for the schools at all…
I think that’s whats really unconstitutional.
I’ve reached the point where I don’t know what I think. I do remember when I was in high school and had a wonderful Republican government teacher. He stressed the fact that the time may come when we are a little hesitant over the idea of prayer in school because every little fringe group and religion will demand their piece of the action. I think I’ve reached a point where I’d rather have just a moment of silence, but no mention of a formal religion because of all the other religions that are demanding their moment of glory.
Mr. P. was right.
SJ Reidhead
The Pink Flamingo
I agree with SJ about how allowing prayer, in this day and age, would open up a can of worms.
Sadly allowing even a moment of silence risks opening up the same can of worms.
This isn’t to say that our schools can’t use all the pleas to a higher power that they can get, so as to get their act together and became the places of higher learning, and education that they used to be, and not the cesspools of liberal propaganda, and crime, that too many have become.
THERE! That ought to bring the moonbats out of the woodwork!
Can I go to bed now? ;-D
So Jeff, and SJ, what does it come down to with the moment of silence? If its left to just that, with freedom to observe whatever in that time?
There is no violation of the 1st Amendment !!! Maybe the disgruntled Robert Sherman should expatriate to Cuba with his atheist ilk to live in Michael Moore’s designated utopia where he will not be so offended by the ostensibly oppressive U.S. Constitution !!!
Let’s see…ACLU says no moment of silence, no in God We Trust on money, no bible time in schools for private reading, no Lord’s Prayer before football games, but Muslim pre prayer footbaths at the University of Michigan funded with public dollars is just fine.
Am I missing something here?
…“What we object to is Christians passing a law that requires the public school teacher to stop teaching during instructional time, paid for by the taxpayers, so that Christians can pray, 
Those dang Christians. Next thing you know, they’ll be praying after school, motivating people to work in their local homeless shelters and soup kitchens, and all manner of mayhem! Get them under control before they start spreading their good will and a sense of morality, and ruin all the fun.
Besides, taking a moment to recognize their mortality and appreciate the freedom of religion they have can’t be good for the Democratic Socialists of Amerika who seek to rule in a freedom ‘from’ religion society.
I just don’t understand why all of these atheists don’t move to one of the communist countries such as China, Cuba or North Korea that would be a utopia for them.
The problem is with the lawyers and courts who continue to listen to these frivolous cases.
Propjets: I agree, but given that they do…
Dane and Chris:
1. Learn more about political theory. The one-dimensional spectrum is a grade over-simplification. We have a lot more in common with communism than you may care to believe.
2. The “Deal with it or get out” argument is as fallacious as the “If you have nothing to hide” argument. We live in a constitutional republic and we are not supposed to be subject to every whim of the majority. If you don’t like that… well, I guess you just have to keep electing people that think the Constitution isn’t important. I’m screwed.
Actually a Representative Republic by it’s very nature assumes that the laws will reflect the best for most and sometimes individuals will have to suck it up. Someone will always be on the wrong side of the issue.
So the question here is “is this law a violation of any laws or not. Not knowing that state’s constitution, I cannot say, but as it is openly nuetral and only asks for participation by silence in a moment of silent relection, I cannot see the bother.
Atheists have the ability to reflect on whatever they want in that time, be it football, butterflies or the grain of their desktop.
This is not about participation in any particular faith, it is about respect for those who do, and sadly that is the one thing that far too many atheists do not have: The ability to hold their beliefs with respect for those who differ.
Yes, of course. No government can please all.
My point was that this isn’t merely a representative republic (a redundant term, btw). We have (in theory, if not practice) a constitutional republic which puts significant constraints on the ruling majority.
Chris and Dane correctly recognize that Christians are a strong majority in this country, but they are mistaken when they assume that gives them carte blanche over the minorities.
We live in a constitutional republic and we are not supposed to be subject to every whim of the majority.
Nor are we required to allow minority rule through judicial activism.
The Constitution restricts the federal government. Thus the government is barred from abridging the people’s inalienable rights to free speech and free exercise of religion.
The exercise of religion is done in the same places as the exercise of speech, the press, peaceful public assembly, and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances.
We have seen the expansion of the freedom of speech to include expression. We have seen the expansion of the freedom of the press (incidentally, just a few days ago). Our public assemby now verges on anarchy. Our petitioning the government is so out of control that attempts are being made to reform it.
The only First Amendment right that is being restricted and destroyed is our religious freedoms.
The men who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, freely and openly practiced religion in their places of business, in the Congress, schools and Universities, the judiciary and all branches of government.
Who better to know whether it is Constitutional or not, than the men who wrote it?
If you’re suggesting that we take the entire Constitution literally, I’m completely there with you. You might want to double-check your position on a few other positions before you agree to that, though.
I’m not sure what you mean by the first one and I wholeheartedly disagree with the rest.
Try blowing the whistle on questionable DHS activities.
Try organizing an ad hoc demonstration some time.
Do you honestly think you could get 5 minutes of your senator’s time? Of course not, he represents too many people. That’s why he was never intended to have a fraction of the power he has come to acquire.
err, “your position on a few other issues”
Interestingly enough, driving through Buffalo Grove you next enter the community of wheeling, where you will pass a publicly owned building (joint park district/school district, as I recall) called “Neptunes Pool” which has a large trident on the side.
As I recall, Neptune is the Greco-Roman god of the sea, and th trident is his holy symbol.
Somehow, the Shermans have not gotten around to seeking the removal of this egregious government establishment of Greco-Roman paganism in their community. That tends to support the thesis that all of Rob Sherman’s many suits to remove any vestige of Christianity from the public sphere are based upon anti-Christian bias, not a commitment to Constitutional principle.
They want remove the constitution from the vision of the founders; they have a “progressive” vision for the future…
I think we are going about it all the wrong way. Christians should lobby for a new law where teachers are required to give five minutes of silence in every class with the stipulation that “students shall remain quietly seated at their desks and under no circumstances should they be allowed to think, to reflect, or God Forbid – to pray.â€
simply stated, it gives the option of silence or prayer. Nothing is being forced on anybody in regards to religion. A moment of silence is a moment of meditation for some, a moment of thought for others, and a mament of prayer for some. But prayer is not being forced upon anybody. This is just another example of atheist activism that has decided that they should have a freedom to reject God, but that Christians should not have a freedom to accept Him (of course concessions shall be made for any other religion, i.e. Muslims)
The law is what says there shall be a moment of silence. Therefore the school district is following the law. But I think the courts will say that it is a legitimate disagreement.
We take time out of our instructional day to eat… Why shouldn’t we take time out to think?
There is no such thing in our Constitution as separation of church and state! Read it, then tell me where it is mentioned in any part of our Constitution.
Pamela, “separation of church and state” is a phrase used to describe different laws that keep church and state from interfering with one another. Yes, the exact phrase does not exist in the constitution, but the principles and laws are there.
As for prayer/silence….. the US is already lagging behind and hanging on the bottom rungs compared to the rest of the industrialized world. The last thing we need is more silence in schools. There is plenty of time outside of school for silence and prayers. If a student needs or wants to pray for whatever reasons, they can and always will be able to do so. Prayers do not need to be said out loud, merely thought out in ones mind, and no one can stop them or say anything about it. There is absolutely no reason for an entire class or school to give up time that could be spent learning (which is the reason they are at school in the first place). Leave schools for learning, the way it should be.
For the record, I’m an atheist and I don’t think a moment of silence is a big deal. As long as the student is allowed to read or study, it should be ok.
the separation of church and state is bad if it wasn’t there this wouldn’t happen.
Even if no religion claims suzerenity there should be something saying the United States is a Christian country.
VS Catholic, Baptist etc, all this does is make the country weak for the takeover.
LoL Dinosaur, that is beyond absurd. The US is not a Christian country. It’s a free country, and a true free country does not endorse one superstitious cult over another. Weak for the takeover? Do you really believe that saying the US is a Christian country will magically protect us from being taken over? Taking over the US is near impossible, and saying that it will happen is a ridiculous scare tactic.
Michael the USA is being taken over from what I can see. If most people in Saudi Arabia are Muslim
it’s expected they have that reflected in their laws.
The USA is a free country with Christian traditions,
Every where in the west the majority are Christian, socialists say we need a separation of church and state
then muslims get footbaths in schools.
Taking the USA over from with in is easy. Look at all the political correctness run rampant.
People are forced to lie to be politically correct to the forces of socialism.
Taking over Rome was near impossible, yet once Rome turned to hedonism et al it didn’t really take that long.
Many similarities are there. Even the decline in manufacturing standards.
“Michael the USA is being taken over from what I can see. If most people in Saudi Arabia are Muslim
it’s expected they have that reflected in their laws.”
Taken over by whom? And do you honestly think that we would be better off if we imitated Saudi Arabia? Do you really want to mimic places like Iraq where religion is law? Guess in your vision of the US I should look forward to stoning people to death, mutilating the genitals of young girls, and treating women as property? The only difference in regards to Christianity is that the genital mutilating happens with the boys.
“Every where in the west the majority are Christian, socialists say we need a separation of church and state
then muslims get footbaths in schools.”
Socialists? The majority of the US supports separation of church and state and that includes most churches and religions, it is not limited to socialists. The foot-baths in schools did not happen in public schools, they were installed by private colleges and as such have no regard to separation of church and state. A private college can do whatever it wants, even be inclusive of Christians and Muslims at the same time.
“Taking the USA over from with in is easy. Look at all the political correctness run rampant.
People are forced to lie to be politically correct to the forces of socialism.
Taking over Rome was near impossible, yet once Rome turned to hedonism et al it didn’t really take that long.
Many similarities are there. Even the decline in manufacturing standards. ”
The only threat of takeover we face is from the Evangelical Christian fundamentalists that want to imitate places like Iraq and turn back the clock to the bronze age. Luckily, Atheism is on the rise.