Comments on: The ACLU’s hatred of the Mt. Soledad Cross is boundless, borderline psychotic http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/ Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:27:27 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Pat Penobscott http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62820 Pat Penobscott Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:26:20 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62820 Matt, thanks for noticing that they deleted my comment. Not only the comment on this thread, but every comment I had made on the entire site. I think that tells me all I need to know about this site. I don't mind trying to help people get over their bigotry, but obviously this site prefers their slant on things regardless of where the truth is. I'm going to see if I can find other sites that are actually willing to engage in real exchanges of ideas. Matt, thanks for noticing that they deleted my comment. Not only the comment on this thread, but every comment I had made on the entire site.

I think that tells me all I need to know about this site. I don’t mind trying to help people get over their bigotry, but obviously this site prefers their slant on things regardless of where the truth is. I’m going to see if I can find other sites that are actually willing to engage in real exchanges of ideas.

]]> By: Matt http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62819 Matt Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:11:22 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62819 Where did the other post go? The one that had the bible verses saying that real christians shouldn't care whether or not the cross is displayed? Was it your filter? If so its kind of ironic that your current lead story is about filter a site yet your filters do the same thing. Where did the other post go? The one that had the bible verses saying that real christians shouldn’t care whether or not the cross is displayed? Was it your filter? If so its kind of ironic that your current lead story is about filter a site yet your filters do the same thing.

]]> By: Matt http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62818 Matt Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:46:37 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62818 Brujo- I agree there is nothing inherently offensive about a cross or star of david or crescent moon. But there is something offensive in the way this one is used. What this monument says is "we honor these dead soliders for their sacrifice" But the selection of the cross is saying that we are only honoring those soliders who are associated with this symbol. All of our monuments honor those associated with the symbols present (Vietnam wall = solem; WWII = sacrifice of those from all states and territories to free the world; Iwo Jima = the heroism in raising the flag, etc.) This monument shows a purely christian symbol honoring only those christian soliders who died, and saying to the rest that they are not as important. I would agree with you about NYC schools if they are going to showcase religious symbols all should be included. As you said Jews and Christians are part of the public, shouldn't a public monument to their sacrifice be neutral in which group it favors? Brujo-

I agree there is nothing inherently offensive about a cross or star of david or crescent moon. But there is something offensive in the way this one is used.

What this monument says is “we honor these dead soliders for their sacrifice” But the selection of the cross is saying that we are only honoring those soliders who are associated with this symbol. All of our monuments honor those associated with the symbols present (Vietnam wall = solem; WWII = sacrifice of those from all states and territories to free the world; Iwo Jima = the heroism in raising the flag, etc.) This monument shows a purely christian symbol honoring only those christian soliders who died, and saying to the rest that they are not as important.

I would agree with you about NYC schools if they are going to showcase religious symbols all should be included.

As you said Jews and Christians are part of the public, shouldn’t a public monument to their sacrifice be neutral in which group it favors?

]]> By: Brujo Blanco http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62817 Brujo Blanco Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:19:13 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62817 How can anyone see a cross as a slap in the face to Jews and Muslims? This is absolutely pure anti-Christian prejudice. I am certain that the people that put the cross there were sincere and the cross was for all who died for our country. I keep hearing more and more about Christian symbols being offensive. There were public schools in New York City that had displays of religious symbols and these displays excluded Christian symbols because they thought that was offensive. The Star of David is not offensive and neither is the cross. If such a symbol is on public land so be it. It is public land is it not? Christians and Jews are part of the public. This so-called separation of church and state myth is getting really old and tired. How can anyone see a cross as a slap in the face to Jews and Muslims? This is absolutely pure anti-Christian prejudice. I am certain that the people that put the cross there were sincere and the cross was for all who died for our country. I keep hearing more and more about Christian symbols being offensive. There were public schools in New York City that had displays of religious symbols and these displays excluded Christian symbols because they thought that was offensive. The Star of David is not offensive and neither is the cross. If such a symbol is on public land so be it. It is public land is it not? Christians and Jews are part of the public. This so-called separation of church and state myth is getting really old and tired.

]]> By: Bruce http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62816 Bruce Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:39:33 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62816 To add to what Matt mentions. I live in San Diego and have endured this endless battle. There is a church just a few blocks away from where the cross now stands that has already agreed to accept the cross. It would remain very prominently displayed but on private church lands. That solution was offered years ago. To those who only know the arguement this is a huge cross that can be seen over the entire city of San Diego. Although it was originally dedicated as a war memorial not a single trapping to indicate it was a war memorial appeared until after the lawsuit first appeared. To add to what Matt mentions. I live in San Diego and have endured this endless battle. There is a church just a few blocks away from where the cross now stands that has already agreed to accept the cross. It would remain very prominently displayed but on private church lands. That solution was offered years ago. To those who only know the arguement this is a huge cross that can be seen over the entire city of San Diego. Although it was originally dedicated as a war memorial not a single trapping to indicate it was a war memorial appeared until after the lawsuit first appeared.

]]> By: Matt http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62815 Matt Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:26 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62815 Glib - I would bow my head and honor those fallen soliders at this monument as well, if it were on private land. The fact that it rests on public land is problem. In addition, in 1954 it was dedicated as the "Mt. Soledad Easter Cross" and it wasn't until 1989 that it was turned into a Veterans memorial. The memorial was dedicated on Easter Sunday. This is clearly a religious symbol. The fact that the Monument Association did some improvments to the area, and attempted to remedy the situation by buying the land is admirable. But that does not change the fact that the Federal Government owns the land, and thus is in violation of the Establishment Clause, and possibly the Equal Protection Clause. Also just because no one said anything then does not make it right. Silence is not acceptance. What would be so bad about allowing the land to be sold to a private group or moving the cross to private land? Doesn't that just make everyone happy? Christians get their cross and monument, everyone else gets to have their Memorial be religiously neutral and equally honor all of those who fought and died, without the Government showing preference for one group over another. Seems reasonable. Glib -

I would bow my head and honor those fallen soliders at this monument as well, if it were on private land. The fact that it rests on public land is problem. In addition, in 1954 it was dedicated as the “Mt. Soledad Easter Cross” and it wasn’t until 1989 that it was turned into a Veterans memorial. The memorial was dedicated on Easter Sunday. This is clearly a religious symbol. The fact that the Monument Association did some improvments to the area, and attempted to remedy the situation by buying the land is admirable. But that does not change the fact that the Federal Government owns the land, and thus is in violation of the Establishment Clause, and possibly the Equal Protection Clause.

Also just because no one said anything then does not make it right. Silence is not acceptance.

What would be so bad about allowing the land to be sold to a private group or moving the cross to private land? Doesn’t that just make everyone happy? Christians get their cross and monument, everyone else gets to have their Memorial be religiously neutral and equally honor all of those who fought and died, without the Government showing preference for one group over another. Seems reasonable.

]]> By: Glib Fortuna http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62814 Glib Fortuna Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:47:07 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62814 Matt-- Sorry to burst your bubble...I would not oppose a monument to fallen troops that featured a Star of David. I would not sue as an "offended observer," rather I would bow my head in honor of those brave servicemen. The people attacking the Mt. Soledad Cross should put their hatred aside and do the same. In case you didn't know, these are brand-new plaintiffs in this 17-year senseless saga. Again--this monument was erected with private funds, was not objected to by ANYONE when it was officially dedicated in 1954 (in a ceremony attended by many families of the fallen and graced by a Marine Corps color guard) and is maintained by a private organization. Matt–

Sorry to burst your bubble…I would not oppose a monument to fallen troops that featured a Star of David. I would not sue as an “offended observer,” rather I would bow my head in honor of those brave servicemen. The people attacking the Mt. Soledad Cross should put their hatred aside and do the same.

In case you didn’t know, these are brand-new plaintiffs in this 17-year senseless saga.

Again–this monument was erected with private funds, was not objected to by ANYONE when it was officially dedicated in 1954 (in a ceremony attended by many families of the fallen and graced by a Marine Corps color guard) and is maintained by a private organization.

]]> By: gary l. day http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62813 gary l. day Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:28:23 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62813 "They have not even begun to feel the backlash." Oh puh-leeze. What sort of "backlash" do you think can be mustered? “They have not even begun to feel the backlash.”

Oh puh-leeze. What sort of “backlash” do you think can be mustered?

]]> By: Matt http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62812 Matt Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:21:21 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62812 Re Kevin A. You seem to assuming that all the soliders who fought and died in WWII were christian, but there were numerous jewish soliders who gave their lives as well. In addition this monument is for the Korean War, not WWII. Isn't a cross a slap in the face to all the Jewish (and non-christian) soliders who fought and died to preserve freedom for all? This monument chooses to only honor the christian soliders and none others, it is shameful to say to the numerous non-christian soliders who died to say their sacrifice doesn't count. Re Kevin A.

You seem to assuming that all the soliders who fought and died in WWII were christian, but there were numerous jewish soliders who gave their lives as well. In addition this monument is for the Korean War, not WWII. Isn’t a cross a slap in the face to all the Jewish (and non-christian) soliders who fought and died to preserve freedom for all? This monument chooses to only honor the christian soliders and none others, it is shameful to say to the numerous non-christian soliders who died to say their sacrifice doesn’t count.

]]> By: Pirate's Cove http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/comment-page-1/#comment-62811 Pirate's Cove Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:39:32 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2007/04/21/the-aclus-hatred-of-the-mt-soledad-cross-is-boundless-borderline-psychotic/#comment-62811 <strong>Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup</strong> And a Good Sunday to all. This pinup is by Edward Runci, with a bit of help, of course, and reminds us that it is almost beach season (in the northern hemisphere). Are you ready? Step away from the cookie! So, this guy goes to the big boss a... Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup

And a Good Sunday to all. This pinup is by Edward Runci, with a bit of help, of course, and reminds us that it is almost beach season (in the northern hemisphere). Are you ready? Step away from the cookie!
So, this guy goes to&nbsp;the big&nbsp;boss a…

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