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	<title>Comments on: Strong Families + Strong Faith = Strong Kids</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is known that intact families whether religious or not are more stable and the children less prone to crime.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don&#039;t dispute that.
&lt;blockquote&gt;It is also known that some religions tend to discourage behavior such as adultery, alcoholism, etc which is damaging to family stability and leads to dysfunctional families.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I acknowledged that in my first comment, but I went on to point out that this study doesn&#039;t address adultery and alcoholism. Whether or  not religions approve, a very significant majority of the people in this country have been drunk and had premarital sex.

This study would have to be extended to at least age 25 to determine if religion is actually correlated to a decrease in these activities or if it is only correlated to a delay in these activities.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The one factor that is important that I did not see isolated in this study is socioeconomic level of the families involved.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, that is also a significant oversight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is known that intact families whether religious or not are more stable and the children less prone to crime.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t dispute that.</p>
<blockquote><p>It is also known that some religions tend to discourage behavior such as adultery, alcoholism, etc which is damaging to family stability and leads to dysfunctional families.</p></blockquote>
<p>I acknowledged that in my first comment, but I went on to point out that this study doesn&#8217;t address adultery and alcoholism. Whether or  not religions approve, a very significant majority of the people in this country have been drunk and had premarital sex.</p>
<p>This study would have to be extended to at least age 25 to determine if religion is actually correlated to a decrease in these activities or if it is only correlated to a delay in these activities.</p>
<blockquote><p>The one factor that is important that I did not see isolated in this study is socioeconomic level of the families involved.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, that is also a significant oversight.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60291</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jeff M,

It is known that intact families whether religious or not are more stable and the children less prone to crime.

It is also known that some religions tend to discourage behavior such as adultery, alcoholism, etc which is damaging to family stability and leads to dysfunctional families.

The one factor that is important that I did not see isolated in this study is socioeconomic level of the families involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff M,</p>
<p>It is known that intact families whether religious or not are more stable and the children less prone to crime.</p>
<p>It is also known that some religions tend to discourage behavior such as adultery, alcoholism, etc which is damaging to family stability and leads to dysfunctional families.</p>
<p>The one factor that is important that I did not see isolated in this study is socioeconomic level of the families involved.</p>
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		<title>By: My Own Thoughts &#38;#187; Raising kids: religious helps</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60292</link>
		<dc:creator>My Own Thoughts &#38;#187; Raising kids: religious helps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 02:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Found via daily read Stop the ACLU. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Found via daily read Stop the ACLU. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60293</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/#comment-60293</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1) The study is specifically on teens, so what you propose would be a different study.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Understood.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I know you will acknowledge that better behavior early in life more often leads to better behavior later. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think any study anywhere would show that teens whoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve generally exhibited responsible behavior when younger make a mass movement toward being poor citizens while the troubled youths make the flip the other way en masse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
- I don&#039;t believe citizenry can be adequately quantified with just the ten behaviors studied.
- It&#039;s not about going from Jekyll to Hyde. Most of the behaviors studied are closely related to teenage rebellions. It&#039;s well within the realm of possibility that the &quot;lead&quot; that religious children enjoy may completely disappear by age 25. I also wouldn&#039;t be the first to suggest that such &quot;delayed rebellions&quot; might ultimately be more destructive than if they had occurred earlier.

&lt;blockquote&gt;3) What Ã¢â‚¬Å“corresponding negative impacts to other personality traitsÃ¢â‚¬Â are you imagining here?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don&#039;t have anywhere near a complete enough understanding of human psychology to suggest how the difference might manifest itself. I just know that &quot;close adherence to pre-defined rules&quot; and &quot;ad-hoc decision making&quot; are two very different cognitive processes and it wouldn&#039;t be unreasonable to suggest that an emphasis on one over the other would have both positive and negative results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1) The study is specifically on teens, so what you propose would be a different study.</p></blockquote>
<p>Understood.</p>
<blockquote><p>I know you will acknowledge that better behavior early in life more often leads to better behavior later. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think any study anywhere would show that teens whoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve generally exhibited responsible behavior when younger make a mass movement toward being poor citizens while the troubled youths make the flip the other way en masse.</p></blockquote>
<p>- I don&#8217;t believe citizenry can be adequately quantified with just the ten behaviors studied.<br />
- It&#8217;s not about going from Jekyll to Hyde. Most of the behaviors studied are closely related to teenage rebellions. It&#8217;s well within the realm of possibility that the &#8220;lead&#8221; that religious children enjoy may completely disappear by age 25. I also wouldn&#8217;t be the first to suggest that such &#8220;delayed rebellions&#8221; might ultimately be more destructive than if they had occurred earlier.</p>
<blockquote><p>3) What Ã¢â‚¬Å“corresponding negative impacts to other personality traitsÃ¢â‚¬Â are you imagining here?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t have anywhere near a complete enough understanding of human psychology to suggest how the difference might manifest itself. I just know that &#8220;close adherence to pre-defined rules&#8221; and &#8220;ad-hoc decision making&#8221; are two very different cognitive processes and it wouldn&#8217;t be unreasonable to suggest that an emphasis on one over the other would have both positive and negative results.</p>
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		<title>By: Glib Fortuna</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60294</link>
		<dc:creator>Glib Fortuna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;What isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t addressed by this study is to what degree the effect is permanent and whether or not there are corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits.&quot;

Hi Jeff--

1) The study is specifically on teens, so what you propose would be a different study.

2) I know you will acknowledge that better behavior early in life more often leads to better behavior later.  I don&#039;t think any study anywhere would show that teens who&#039;ve generally exhibited responsible behavior when younger make a mass movement toward being poor citizens while the troubled youths make the flip the other way en masse.  I would guess that most behavior remains pretty consistent as most people take on the values, faith and voting patterns of their parents.

3) What &quot;corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits&quot; are you imagining here?  As Arthur Brooks has clearly demonstrated (http://www.arthurbrooks.net/buy.html), the folks who are brought up in the environments described by the Heritage study are far more likely to take an interest in helping their fellow man via charitable giving and sacrificial activity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t addressed by this study is to what degree the effect is permanent and whether or not there are corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hi Jeff&#8211;</p>
<p>1) The study is specifically on teens, so what you propose would be a different study.</p>
<p>2) I know you will acknowledge that better behavior early in life more often leads to better behavior later.  I don&#8217;t think any study anywhere would show that teens who&#8217;ve generally exhibited responsible behavior when younger make a mass movement toward being poor citizens while the troubled youths make the flip the other way en masse.  I would guess that most behavior remains pretty consistent as most people take on the values, faith and voting patterns of their parents.</p>
<p>3) What &#8220;corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits&#8221; are you imagining here?  As Arthur Brooks has clearly demonstrated (<a href="http://www.arthurbrooks.net/buy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.arthurbrooks.net/buy.html</a>), the folks who are brought up in the environments described by the Heritage study are far more likely to take an interest in helping their fellow man via charitable giving and sacrificial activity.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-60295</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/12/18/strong-families-strong-faith-strong-kids/#comment-60295</guid>
		<description>Sure, the core of virtually every religion amounts to the ultimate carrot and stick incentive. Since those incentives are coupled with instructions to avoid the behaviors listed in this study, it shouldn&#039;t be any surprise that there is a statistically significant correlation.

What isn&#039;t addressed by this study is to what degree the effect is permanent and whether or not there are corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, the core of virtually every religion amounts to the ultimate carrot and stick incentive. Since those incentives are coupled with instructions to avoid the behaviors listed in this study, it shouldn&#8217;t be any surprise that there is a statistically significant correlation.</p>
<p>What isn&#8217;t addressed by this study is to what degree the effect is permanent and whether or not there are corresponding negative impacts to other personality traits.</p>
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