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	<title>Comments on: NY Times Seeks Help From Ruth Bader Ginsburg Against Feds&#8217; Investigation Into Tipping Off Terror Funding Charities</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: coolnewsnow.info &#38;#38;#187; David Lee: Will Start in Place of Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59082</link>
		<dc:creator>coolnewsnow.info &#38;#38;#187; David Lee: Will Start in Place of Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] NY Times Seeks Help From Ruth Bader Ginsburg Against Feds &#38;#8230;Stop the ACLU,&#38;nbsp;PA&#38;nbsp;- Nov 25, 2006As the New York Post reported last September, the Justice Department charged that a veteran New York Times foreign correspondent warned an alleged terror &#38;#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NY Times Seeks Help From Ruth Bader Ginsburg Against Feds &#38;#38;#8230;Stop the ACLU,&#38;#38;nbsp;PA&#38;#38;nbsp;- Nov 25, 2006As the New York Post reported last September, the Justice Department charged that a veteran New York Times foreign correspondent warned an alleged terror &#38;#38;#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59081</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The question is whether the Times gave our enemies aid and comfort by running the story.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	That is not accurate. The burden of proof is much higher. The prosecution has to demonstrate the defendant was either:
	 1. &quot;levying war against them&quot;
	or
	 2. &quot;adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort&quot;

	The verb &quot;adhere&quot; is very important to the phrase and requires an element of intent. Incidental &quot;aid and comfort&quot; does not amount to &quot;adhering&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The question is whether the Times gave our enemies aid and comfort by running the story.</p></blockquote>
<p>	That is not accurate. The burden of proof is much higher. The prosecution has to demonstrate the defendant was either:<br />
	 1. &#8220;levying war against them&#8221;<br />
	or<br />
	 2. &#8220;adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort&#8221;</p>
<p>	The verb &#8220;adhere&#8221; is very important to the phrase and requires an element of intent. Incidental &#8220;aid and comfort&#8221; does not amount to &#8220;adhering&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59080</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59080</guid>
		<description>“U.S. Constitution Article 3 Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. “

	The question is whether the Times gave our enemies aid and comfort by running the story.  If the answer is yes the question of whether the information would inform the public also is irrelevant.  It is not that complicated of an issue.

	Congress is not as helpless as you propose.  They have the power of the purse.  They can also harass people by calling them into committee meeting after committee meeting. From what I heart the last will probably be done quite frequently in the next two years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“U.S. Constitution Article 3 Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. “</p>
<p>	The question is whether the Times gave our enemies aid and comfort by running the story.  If the answer is yes the question of whether the information would inform the public also is irrelevant.  It is not that complicated of an issue.</p>
<p>	Congress is not as helpless as you propose.  They have the power of the purse.  They can also harass people by calling them into committee meeting after committee meeting. From what I heart the last will probably be done quite frequently in the next two years.</p>
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		<title>By: Church and State</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59079</link>
		<dc:creator>Church and State</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Treasoners Run to Ginsberg for Protection&lt;/strong&gt;
	Treasoners from the NYTimes who have been accused by federal prosecutors of tipping off Islamic terrorists, want Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to protect them...Gasp! No! Why, that could lead to a conviction! We can&#039;t have that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Treasoners Run to Ginsberg for Protection</strong><br />
	Treasoners from the NYTimes who have been accused by federal prosecutors of tipping off Islamic terrorists, want Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to protect them&#8230;Gasp! No! Why, that could lead to a conviction! We can&#8217;t have that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59078</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59078</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Whom are kept inline by Congressional Oversight Committees.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	That&#039;s the theory, at least. The truth of the matter is that those committees rarely have the authority to do much, even if they are motivated.

	And they are restricted from discussing classified information, so can&#039;t inform the public either. If an administration is engaging in programs that are illegal or contrary to the public&#039;s interest, these committees are of no use to us.

	&lt;blockquote&gt;Fortunately the law doesn’t see it your way. It’s illegal for the one passing the info and for the one receiving it.
	&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	I know it&#039;s illegal, but that doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s ignoble in every case. Our early history is chock-full of examples of illegal activities justified by the oppressiveness of the government.

	I don&#039;t mean to imply that this case rises to that level; I&#039;m just explaining my reasoning.

	&lt;blockquote&gt;And it IS treasonous for both.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	This is just my opinion, but I disagree. The word &quot;treason&quot; gets tossed around a lot these days just because the whole world gets CNN. I don&#039;t know about you, but I see a clear difference between someone who secretly divulges information to the enemy and someone who divulges information to the public, assuming of course, that the information is something that a reasonable person might think the public should know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Whom are kept inline by Congressional Oversight Committees.</p></blockquote>
<p>	That&#8217;s the theory, at least. The truth of the matter is that those committees rarely have the authority to do much, even if they are motivated.</p>
<p>	And they are restricted from discussing classified information, so can&#8217;t inform the public either. If an administration is engaging in programs that are illegal or contrary to the public&#8217;s interest, these committees are of no use to us.</p>
<blockquote><p>Fortunately the law doesn’t see it your way. It’s illegal for the one passing the info and for the one receiving it.
	</p></blockquote>
<p>	I know it&#8217;s illegal, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s ignoble in every case. Our early history is chock-full of examples of illegal activities justified by the oppressiveness of the government.</p>
<p>	I don&#8217;t mean to imply that this case rises to that level; I&#8217;m just explaining my reasoning.</p>
<blockquote><p>And it IS treasonous for both.</p></blockquote>
<p>	This is just my opinion, but I disagree. The word &#8220;treason&#8221; gets tossed around a lot these days just because the whole world gets CNN. I don&#8217;t know about you, but I see a clear difference between someone who secretly divulges information to the enemy and someone who divulges information to the public, assuming of course, that the information is something that a reasonable person might think the public should know.</p>
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		<title>By: loboinok</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59075</link>
		<dc:creator>loboinok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 01:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59075</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;BUT, the entire classification process is run by a lot of fallible human beings who work for the same branch of the government.&lt;/i&gt;
	Whom are kept inline by &lt;b&gt;Congressional Oversight Committees&lt;/b&gt;.

	 &lt;i&gt;It is not uncommon of for a classified program to be illegal or contrary to public’s interest. When this is the case, &lt;b&gt;I don’t consider it treasonous to leak the information.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;
	Fortunately the law doesn&#039;t see it your way. It&#039;s illegal for the one passing the info and for the one receiving it.
	And it IS treasonous for both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>BUT, the entire classification process is run by a lot of fallible human beings who work for the same branch of the government.</i><br />
	Whom are kept inline by <b>Congressional Oversight Committees</b>.</p>
<p>	 <i>It is not uncommon of for a classified program to be illegal or contrary to public’s interest. When this is the case, <b>I don’t consider it treasonous to leak the information.</b></i><br />
	Fortunately the law doesn&#8217;t see it your way. It&#8217;s illegal for the one passing the info and for the one receiving it.<br />
	And it IS treasonous for both.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59077</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59077</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The FOIA subsections you list, are there for a reason.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	Indeed. I don&#039;t have a problem with the FOIA.

	&lt;blockquote&gt;By the above definition of why information is classified, leaking sounds like a bad thing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	Sure, it usually would be a bad thing. There are colossal volumes of classified text that the public doesn&#039;t need to know anything about.

	BUT, the entire classification process is run by a lot of fallible human beings who work for the same branch of the government. It is not uncommon of for a classified program to be illegal or contrary to public&#039;s interest. When this is the case, I don&#039;t consider it treasonous to leak the information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The FOIA subsections you list, are there for a reason.</p></blockquote>
<p>	Indeed. I don&#8217;t have a problem with the FOIA.</p>
<blockquote><p>By the above definition of why information is classified, leaking sounds like a bad thing.</p></blockquote>
<p>	Sure, it usually would be a bad thing. There are colossal volumes of classified text that the public doesn&#8217;t need to know anything about.</p>
<p>	BUT, the entire classification process is run by a lot of fallible human beings who work for the same branch of the government. It is not uncommon of for a classified program to be illegal or contrary to public&#8217;s interest. When this is the case, I don&#8217;t consider it treasonous to leak the information.</p>
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		<title>By: Sevenseas</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59076</link>
		<dc:creator>Sevenseas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59076</guid>
		<description>&quot;In order for us to have any clue what they are doing, it is important for classified information to be leaked on occasion.&quot; -Jeff Molby

	&quot;No, subsections (b)(1) and (b)(7) of the FOIA specifically rule out classified documents and other documents related to investigations.&quot; -Jeff Molby

	&quot;All information or material considered vital to the safety of the United States is given a security classification level.&quot;- U.S. Navy publication disclaimer.

	By the above definition of why information is classified, leaking sounds like a bad thing.  The FOIA  subsections you list, are there  for a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In order for us to have any clue what they are doing, it is important for classified information to be leaked on occasion.&#8221; -Jeff Molby</p>
<p>	&#8220;No, subsections (b)(1) and (b)(7) of the FOIA specifically rule out classified documents and other documents related to investigations.&#8221; -Jeff Molby</p>
<p>	&#8220;All information or material considered vital to the safety of the United States is given a security classification level.&#8221;- U.S. Navy publication disclaimer.</p>
<p>	By the above definition of why information is classified, leaking sounds like a bad thing.  The FOIA  subsections you list, are there  for a reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Molby</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59074</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Molby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/#comment-59074</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Freedom of Information Act can be used. That means a judge gets to decide whether the item is classified for a good reason or not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	No, subsections (b)(1) and (b)(7) of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiastat.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FOIA&lt;/a&gt; specifically rule out classified documents and other documents related to investigations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Freedom of Information Act can be used. That means a judge gets to decide whether the item is classified for a good reason or not.</p></blockquote>
<p>	No, subsections (b)(1) and (b)(7) of the <a href="http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiastat.htm" rel="nofollow">FOIA</a> specifically rule out classified documents and other documents related to investigations.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/11/25/ny-times-seeks-help-from-ruth-bader-ginsburg-against-feds-investigation-into-tipping-off-terror-funding-charities/comment-page-1/#comment-59073</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;In order for us to have any clue what they are doing, it is important for classified information to be leaked on occasion.&quot; Jeff Molby

	The Freedom of Information Act can be used.  That means a judge gets to decide whether the item is classified for a good reason or not.  Handing classified information to the enemy is considered treason and publishing it in the Media is certainly giving it to the enemy as well as everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In order for us to have any clue what they are doing, it is important for classified information to be leaked on occasion.&#8221; Jeff Molby</p>
<p>	The Freedom of Information Act can be used.  That means a judge gets to decide whether the item is classified for a good reason or not.  Handing classified information to the enemy is considered treason and publishing it in the Media is certainly giving it to the enemy as well as everyone else.</p>
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