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	<title>Comments on: ACLU Hypocrisy Files: Can they mention God or not?</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: camanintx</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54850</link>
		<dc:creator>camanintx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 13:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>From McComb&#039;s speech:

	&quot;Because the fact of the matter remains, man possesses an innate desire to take part in something greater than himself. That something is God&#039;s plan. And God&#039;s plan for each of our lives may not leave us with an impressive and extensive resume, but if we pursue His plan, He promises to fill us. Jeremiah 29:11 says, &quot; &#039;For I know the plans I have for you,&#039; declares the Lord, &#039;plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.&quot;

	This sure sounds like a sermon to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From McComb&#8217;s speech:</p>
<p>	&#8220;Because the fact of the matter remains, man possesses an innate desire to take part in something greater than himself. That something is God&#8217;s plan. And God&#8217;s plan for each of our lives may not leave us with an impressive and extensive resume, but if we pursue His plan, He promises to fill us. Jeremiah 29:11 says, &#8221; &#8216;For I know the plans I have for you,&#8217; declares the Lord, &#8216;plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.&#8221;</p>
<p>	This sure sounds like a sermon to me.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54851</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 06:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>McComb do not preach that others should accept her faith as their own.  She merely testified about the impact of her faith on her.  Those are two vastly different things.  You could say she endorsed Christianity but that is hardly evangelizing whatever she or you may think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McComb do not preach that others should accept her faith as their own.  She merely testified about the impact of her faith on her.  Those are two vastly different things.  You could say she endorsed Christianity but that is hardly evangelizing whatever she or you may think.</p>
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		<title>By: camanintx</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54852</link>
		<dc:creator>camanintx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Glib, why am I not surprised that you cannot see the difference between these two cases. While both concern student activities at school functions, the similarities end there.

	In Frenchtown, the student is merely expressing their own beliefs in front of an audience that is free to get up and leave if they don&#039;t wish to participate. Everyone has their own religious beliefs and it would be silly not to expect people to act on those beliefs.

	In the case of McComb, she wishes to use her forum to preach that others should accept her faith as their own. As in Lassonde and Cole before it, the courts have clearly stated that &quot;permitting
	a proselytizing speech at a public school’s graduation
	ceremony would amount to coerced participation in a religious
	practice.&quot;

	While the First Amendment clearly allows for the free exercise of religion, it does not permit it to interfere with others right to exercise their religion. Is it too hard to understand that my rights end where yours begin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glib, why am I not surprised that you cannot see the difference between these two cases. While both concern student activities at school functions, the similarities end there.</p>
<p>	In Frenchtown, the student is merely expressing their own beliefs in front of an audience that is free to get up and leave if they don&#8217;t wish to participate. Everyone has their own religious beliefs and it would be silly not to expect people to act on those beliefs.</p>
<p>	In the case of McComb, she wishes to use her forum to preach that others should accept her faith as their own. As in Lassonde and Cole before it, the courts have clearly stated that &#8220;permitting<br />
	a proselytizing speech at a public school’s graduation<br />
	ceremony would amount to coerced participation in a religious<br />
	practice.&#8221;</p>
<p>	While the First Amendment clearly allows for the free exercise of religion, it does not permit it to interfere with others right to exercise their religion. Is it too hard to understand that my rights end where yours begin?</p>
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		<title>By: meatbrain</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54853</link>
		<dc:creator>meatbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/08/glib_fortuna_distorts_reality.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ed Brayton handily exposes the dishonesty in Glib&#039;s claims:&lt;/a&gt;
	&quot;[The ACLU does] not claim [that &lt;em&gt;Turton, et al. v. Frenchtown Elementary School, et al.&lt;/em&gt; is] their own case, they claim exactly what Fortuna claims, that they have filed an amicus brief in the case defending the student&#039;s right to choose their own song. What Fortuna doesn&#039;t tell you, of course, is that the ACLU has little control over what cases it represents. Sometimes there are multiple public interest groups who are willing to take on a case and it&#039;s up to the plaintiffs, in this case the student&#039;s parents, to decide who will represent them. There may be any number of reasons why one group ends up with the case over another. Perhpas the parents object to the ACLU&#039;s positions on other issues and are more comfortable dealing with the Alliance Defense Fund. Perhaps the ADF simply got to it first.

	&quot;But the fact remains that the ACLU is firmly, and rightly, on the side of the student and filed a brief on her behalf defending her religious liberty in the case. And that is all they have claimed to do. If you read the document he links to, you&#039;ll see that they are clear in each instance to tell you which cases they filed suits in, and which cases they simply filed briefs in because they were handled by someone else. Only someone truly hellbent on demonizing the ACLU, and with true contempt for honesty, would claim to find anything the least bit dishonest there.&quot;

	Glib, alas, still has not learned that the truth is a harsh mistress when she is ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/08/glib_fortuna_distorts_reality.php" rel="nofollow">Ed Brayton handily exposes the dishonesty in Glib&#8217;s claims:</a><br />
	&#8220;[The ACLU does] not claim [that <em>Turton, et al. v. Frenchtown Elementary School, et al.</em> is] their own case, they claim exactly what Fortuna claims, that they have filed an amicus brief in the case defending the student&#8217;s right to choose their own song. What Fortuna doesn&#8217;t tell you, of course, is that the ACLU has little control over what cases it represents. Sometimes there are multiple public interest groups who are willing to take on a case and it&#8217;s up to the plaintiffs, in this case the student&#8217;s parents, to decide who will represent them. There may be any number of reasons why one group ends up with the case over another. Perhpas the parents object to the ACLU&#8217;s positions on other issues and are more comfortable dealing with the Alliance Defense Fund. Perhaps the ADF simply got to it first.</p>
<p>	&#8220;But the fact remains that the ACLU is firmly, and rightly, on the side of the student and filed a brief on her behalf defending her religious liberty in the case. And that is all they have claimed to do. If you read the document he links to, you&#8217;ll see that they are clear in each instance to tell you which cases they filed suits in, and which cases they simply filed briefs in because they were handled by someone else. Only someone truly hellbent on demonizing the ACLU, and with true contempt for honesty, would claim to find anything the least bit dishonest there.&#8221;</p>
<p>	Glib, alas, still has not learned that the truth is a harsh mistress when she is ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: whereIstand.com/adamelijah</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54854</link>
		<dc:creator>whereIstand.com/adamelijah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A Tale of Two Events&lt;/strong&gt;
	Nat Hentoff, a former ACLU board member has a piece in USA Today, comparing the</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A Tale of Two Events</strong><br />
	Nat Hentoff, a former ACLU board member has a piece in USA Today, comparing the</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54855</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Glib Fortuna,

	That includes the Virginia one which mentions God under the alias of Creator and Christianity in its Bill of Rights.  It is specifically in section 16 which forbids the establishment of religion and allows for the free exercise of religion.

	The Virginia Bill of Rights is known to be what the Federal Bill of Rights is based on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glib Fortuna,</p>
<p>	That includes the Virginia one which mentions God under the alias of Creator and Christianity in its Bill of Rights.  It is specifically in section 16 which forbids the establishment of religion and allows for the free exercise of religion.</p>
<p>	The Virginia Bill of Rights is known to be what the Federal Bill of Rights is based on.</p>
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		<title>By: Glib Fortuna</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54856</link>
		<dc:creator>Glib Fortuna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>While we&#039;re at it, we can also call 49 of the 50 state constitutions &quot;unconstitutional.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we&#8217;re at it, we can also call 49 of the 50 state constitutions &#8220;unconstitutional.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54857</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 03:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Glib Fortuna,

	You want to know what is foolish is that our President or any elected representative can say God but a student can not. Whether or not the audience is captive is irrelevant.  I guess Presidents and Congress members like Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama are above the law.

	Or more likely the opinions of our corrupt and unelected Judges have nothing to do with the law as the U.S. Constitution expresses faith in Jesus with the term in the year of our Lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glib Fortuna,</p>
<p>	You want to know what is foolish is that our President or any elected representative can say God but a student can not. Whether or not the audience is captive is irrelevant.  I guess Presidents and Congress members like Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama are above the law.</p>
<p>	Or more likely the opinions of our corrupt and unelected Judges have nothing to do with the law as the U.S. Constitution expresses faith in Jesus with the term in the year of our Lord.</p>
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		<title>By: das heize (info4beer)</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54858</link>
		<dc:creator>das heize (info4beer)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The ACLU&#039;s motivation of religious hate is profit; pure and simple;  the getting of money with threats of legal action...its extortion.  And very profitable.

	The ACLU and its NAMBLA loving members had to find a steady revenue stream since child pornography is expensive, getting &#039;hooked-up&#039; with the right children can be very expensive, and acquiring a good defense when caught is expensive.

	Thus the intimidation of children (teens, their parents, and small local governments) who would like to thank God and their parents, in a simple graduation speech, school play, etc...

	From Jay 2005 - ACLU Generates Revenue in Courtroom Campaign

	$790,000 = San Diego: The ACLU was given $790,000 after suing to nullify a lease between the city of San Diego and the Boy Scouts of America. A federal judge sided with the ACLU, ruling that the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because they require kids to pledge an oath to God and promise to live a &quot;morally straight&quot;

	$150,000 = Barrow County (Ga.): The ACLU was awarded $150,000 after suing to remove a display of the Ten Commandments from the Barrow County Courthouse.

	$50,000 = Tennessee: A Tennessee County was forced to pay the ACLU $50,000 after losing a legal battle to preserve a display of the Ten Commandments.

	$175,000 = Alabama: Following the lawsuit, involving former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore, to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building, state taxpayers were forced to pay nearly $550,000 in attorney fees and court costs. Of that, $175,000 went to the ACLU.

	$63,000 = California: Taxpayers were forced to give the ACLU a whopping $63,000 after their lawsuit to remove a World War One Memorial Cross from the Mojave National Preserve.

	$74,462 = Habersham County (Ga.): The ACLU received $74,462 from Georgia taxpayers after suing to remove a Ten Commandments display from the Habersham County (Ga.) Courthouse.

	$135,000 = Cobb County (Ga.): The ACLU is scheduled to receive $135,000 from Cobb County taxpayers, after suing the county to remove warning stickers from the district biology books. The stickers simply read, &quot;Evolution is a theory, not a fact.&quot;

	$18,000 = London (Ohio): After suing London, Ohio, for allowing their football coach to host a voluntary prayer for athletes, the ACLU was awarded $18,000 in attorney fees.

	$110,000 = Multnomah County (Oregon): Incredibly, Multnomah County taxpayers were asked to pay a whopping $110,000 after the ACLU sued them for allowing the Boy Scouts of America to recruit on public school campuses.

	$230,000 = San Diego (California): San Diego residents were forced to pay $230,000 in legal costs in an effort to defend the Mount Soledad Cross (a memorial to the Korean War) from an ACLU lawsuit. The Korean War Memorial had been established in 1952.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ACLU&#8217;s motivation of religious hate is profit; pure and simple;  the getting of money with threats of legal action&#8230;its extortion.  And very profitable.</p>
<p>	The ACLU and its NAMBLA loving members had to find a steady revenue stream since child pornography is expensive, getting &#8216;hooked-up&#8217; with the right children can be very expensive, and acquiring a good defense when caught is expensive.</p>
<p>	Thus the intimidation of children (teens, their parents, and small local governments) who would like to thank God and their parents, in a simple graduation speech, school play, etc&#8230;</p>
<p>	From Jay 2005 &#8211; ACLU Generates Revenue in Courtroom Campaign</p>
<p>	$790,000 = San Diego: The ACLU was given $790,000 after suing to nullify a lease between the city of San Diego and the Boy Scouts of America. A federal judge sided with the ACLU, ruling that the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because they require kids to pledge an oath to God and promise to live a &#8220;morally straight&#8221;</p>
<p>	$150,000 = Barrow County (Ga.): The ACLU was awarded $150,000 after suing to remove a display of the Ten Commandments from the Barrow County Courthouse.</p>
<p>	$50,000 = Tennessee: A Tennessee County was forced to pay the ACLU $50,000 after losing a legal battle to preserve a display of the Ten Commandments.</p>
<p>	$175,000 = Alabama: Following the lawsuit, involving former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore, to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building, state taxpayers were forced to pay nearly $550,000 in attorney fees and court costs. Of that, $175,000 went to the ACLU.</p>
<p>	$63,000 = California: Taxpayers were forced to give the ACLU a whopping $63,000 after their lawsuit to remove a World War One Memorial Cross from the Mojave National Preserve.</p>
<p>	$74,462 = Habersham County (Ga.): The ACLU received $74,462 from Georgia taxpayers after suing to remove a Ten Commandments display from the Habersham County (Ga.) Courthouse.</p>
<p>	$135,000 = Cobb County (Ga.): The ACLU is scheduled to receive $135,000 from Cobb County taxpayers, after suing the county to remove warning stickers from the district biology books. The stickers simply read, &#8220;Evolution is a theory, not a fact.&#8221;</p>
<p>	$18,000 = London (Ohio): After suing London, Ohio, for allowing their football coach to host a voluntary prayer for athletes, the ACLU was awarded $18,000 in attorney fees.</p>
<p>	$110,000 = Multnomah County (Oregon): Incredibly, Multnomah County taxpayers were asked to pay a whopping $110,000 after the ACLU sued them for allowing the Boy Scouts of America to recruit on public school campuses.</p>
<p>	$230,000 = San Diego (California): San Diego residents were forced to pay $230,000 in legal costs in an effort to defend the Mount Soledad Cross (a memorial to the Korean War) from an ACLU lawsuit. The Korean War Memorial had been established in 1952.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/08/28/aclu-hypocrisy-files-can-they-mention-god-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-54859</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Do you think it could be a nitpick over specifics?  In the song &quot;Awesome God&quot; there is no mention of a specific god.  The ACLU come out against Christmas songs and nativity plays at Christmas time.  Could it be that it is because it specifically refers to Jesus Christ?  The same in the McCombs case.  She mentioned Christ specifically.

	Could this be the ACLU&#039;s reasoning?  They were nowhere to be found in California when 8th graders were made to play Jihad and bow to Mecca in their social studies class.

	Could it be the old saying about the ACLU.....We don&#039;t hate religion, just Christianity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think it could be a nitpick over specifics?  In the song &#8220;Awesome God&#8221; there is no mention of a specific god.  The ACLU come out against Christmas songs and nativity plays at Christmas time.  Could it be that it is because it specifically refers to Jesus Christ?  The same in the McCombs case.  She mentioned Christ specifically.</p>
<p>	Could this be the ACLU&#8217;s reasoning?  They were nowhere to be found in California when 8th graders were made to play Jihad and bow to Mecca in their social studies class.</p>
<p>	Could it be the old saying about the ACLU&#8230;..We don&#8217;t hate religion, just Christianity?</p>
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