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	<title>Comments on: Claire Keyes: A Voice of &#8220;Choice&#8221; Discourages Choice</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51502</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/#comment-51502</guid>
		<description>Jason Sonenshein,

	All human beings disserve the same treatment under the laws of the United States unless there is a noble purpose for being discriminatory.  So what is the noble purpose to deprive a child still within their mother&#039;s womb of his/her life.   Because their mother wants to just does not work.  Population control does not work.  Because they are the offspring of rape or incest does not work.   So do you believe that human beings should be treated unequal because you say they should be treated unequal or do you have criteria to treat them unequally?

	Chances are that any statistics about the rate of abortions that occur in countries where they are illegal are bogus because people that admit they kill their own children face penalties. I have read pro genocide by abortion sites and every one I have seen admits what I just said.  Please direct me to where you obtained your statistics.

	Do you know 100&#039;s of women die of legal but unsafe abortion in India.  Planned Parenthood operates there.  Have to control the population and dead women do not have a very high birth rate.  They also operate in China where women are forced to have abortions.  I guess choice only counts when women are choosing what you want.  Should I talk about aborting children based on what sex they are.  It happens in the United States.  OK women, you have the right to kill your daughters.  The U.S. also practices Eugenics through abortion.   Use genetic testing and if you don’t like the child nature and nature’s God has given you then kill him/her and try again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Sonenshein,</p>
<p>	All human beings disserve the same treatment under the laws of the United States unless there is a noble purpose for being discriminatory.  So what is the noble purpose to deprive a child still within their mother&#8217;s womb of his/her life.   Because their mother wants to just does not work.  Population control does not work.  Because they are the offspring of rape or incest does not work.   So do you believe that human beings should be treated unequal because you say they should be treated unequal or do you have criteria to treat them unequally?</p>
<p>	Chances are that any statistics about the rate of abortions that occur in countries where they are illegal are bogus because people that admit they kill their own children face penalties. I have read pro genocide by abortion sites and every one I have seen admits what I just said.  Please direct me to where you obtained your statistics.</p>
<p>	Do you know 100&#8217;s of women die of legal but unsafe abortion in India.  Planned Parenthood operates there.  Have to control the population and dead women do not have a very high birth rate.  They also operate in China where women are forced to have abortions.  I guess choice only counts when women are choosing what you want.  Should I talk about aborting children based on what sex they are.  It happens in the United States.  OK women, you have the right to kill your daughters.  The U.S. also practices Eugenics through abortion.   Use genetic testing and if you don’t like the child nature and nature’s God has given you then kill him/her and try again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Sonenshein</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51503</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Sonenshein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 04:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry.  Forgot to close the tag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry.  Forgot to close the tag.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Sonenshein</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51504</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Sonenshein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 04:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/#comment-51504</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;(except in the rare circumstance of rape or potential harm to a mother)&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

	Let me get this straight, Mr. Cipriani.  You believe that a fetus is a person, and therefore that abortion is murder, but you make an exception for rape.  If a fetus really is a person, you believe that it&#039;s OK to murder a person because his or her father is a rapist?

	What do you think you&#039;ll accomplish by criminalizing abortion?  Chile has the strictest abortion ban in the world, but has an abortion rate that is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2086/context/archive&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;twice as high as that in the United States.  To what length would you go to enforce an abortion ban, Mr. Cipriani?  Would you make every woman who suffers a miscarriage into the target of a homicide investigation?  Would you force women who are merely suspected of abortion to submit to gynecological examinations, as El Salvador does?

	Look at all of the holes that have been punched into the Fourth Amendment in the name of fighting the drug war.  Now imagine the lengths to which our government would go to fight a drug war that has the added justification of protecting innocent fetal &quot;life.&quot;  An abortion ban wouldn&#039;t prevent abortion, but it would make all of us much less free.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>(except in the rare circumstance of rape or potential harm to a mother)</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>	Let me get this straight, Mr. Cipriani.  You believe that a fetus is a person, and therefore that abortion is murder, but you make an exception for rape.  If a fetus really is a person, you believe that it&#8217;s OK to murder a person because his or her father is a rapist?</p>
<p>	What do you think you&#8217;ll accomplish by criminalizing abortion?  Chile has the strictest abortion ban in the world, but has an abortion rate that is <a href="http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2086/context/archive" rel="nofollow">twice as high as that in the United States.  To what length would you go to enforce an abortion ban, Mr. Cipriani?  Would you make every woman who suffers a miscarriage into the target of a homicide investigation?  Would you force women who are merely suspected of abortion to submit to gynecological examinations, as El Salvador does?</p>
<p>	Look at all of the holes that have been punched into the Fourth Amendment in the name of fighting the drug war.  Now imagine the lengths to which our government would go to fight a drug war that has the added justification of protecting innocent fetal &#8220;life.&#8221;  An abortion ban wouldn&#8217;t prevent abortion, but it would make all of us much less free.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jason Sonenshein</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51505</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Sonenshein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 04:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/#comment-51505</guid>
		<description>If abortion is murder, then every miscarriage is a potential negligent homicide.  Why do you want to make every woman who suffers a miscarriage into the target of a homicide investigation, Mr. Brown?

	Criminalizing abortion won&#039;t make it go away.  It will just create a black market for it.  Black markets create revenue streams for terrorism and organized crime.  Why do you want to create another black market, Mr. Brown?  Are you a terrorist, or are you just in with the mob?

	Take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html&#38;#38;OQ=_rQ3D5Q26eiQ3D5087Q26enQ3Da552570c2ecb2ddcQ26ampQ3BexQ3D1144814400Q26pagewantedQ3Dall&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article from the &lt;i&gt;New York Times Magazine&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; about abortion enforcement in El Salvador.  The Salvadoran government forces women who are merely suspected (not convicted) of abortion to submit to gynecological examinations.  There&#039;s a word for poking around in a woman&#039;s reproductive system without her consent.  That word is rape.  Why are you for government-sanctioned rape of innocent women, Mr. Brown?  I&#039;ll bet that idea turns you on, doesn&#039;t it, Mr. Brown?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If abortion is murder, then every miscarriage is a potential negligent homicide.  Why do you want to make every woman who suffers a miscarriage into the target of a homicide investigation, Mr. Brown?</p>
<p>	Criminalizing abortion won&#8217;t make it go away.  It will just create a black market for it.  Black markets create revenue streams for terrorism and organized crime.  Why do you want to create another black market, Mr. Brown?  Are you a terrorist, or are you just in with the mob?</p>
<p>	Take a look at <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html&#38;#38;#38;OQ=_rQ3D5Q26eiQ3D5087Q26enQ3Da552570c2ecb2ddcQ26ampQ3BexQ3D1144814400Q26pagewantedQ3Dall" rel="nofollow">this article from the <i>New York Times Magazine</i></a> about abortion enforcement in El Salvador.  The Salvadoran government forces women who are merely suspected (not convicted) of abortion to submit to gynecological examinations.  There&#8217;s a word for poking around in a woman&#8217;s reproductive system without her consent.  That word is rape.  Why are you for government-sanctioned rape of innocent women, Mr. Brown?  I&#8217;ll bet that idea turns you on, doesn&#8217;t it, Mr. Brown?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Cipriani</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51506</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cipriani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 03:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/#comment-51506</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Jason Sonenshein wrote:&lt;/b&gt;
	&lt;i&gt; Thank you, Mr. Cipriani, for revealing your and the rest of the anti-choice movement’s contempt for women who experience unintended pregnancies.&lt;/i&gt;
	Jason - anti-choice?? get a grip. we&#039;re not choosing a box of cereal in a grocery store isle.

	would-be rapists make choices, too. they choose to rape or not rape. do i need to suuport him in raping because I&#039;m &quot;pro-choice?&quot; no - the fact that the rapist is making a choice is not the significant fact in determining whether to support rape.

	people do not support rape because it&#039;s a BAD CHOICE.

	Jason, I really am in favor of people having choices. just not the choice that leads to a murder. granted, i realize this is more of a mini-murder to you. one you can ignore.

	maybe my more sensitive audience can understand this: we all make choices. some good. and some bad. we live. we learn. but our bad choices don&#039;t necessarily need to lead to an even worse choice - ending a life.

	to my less sensitive audience: why would i give a rat&#039;s ass about a woman&#039;s senseless prerogative when it means the ending of another human&#039;s chance to live?

	(except in the rare circumstance of rape or potential harm to a mother)

	being fixated on &quot;choice&quot; when discussing abortion is like being concerned about a house fire during a nuclear holocaust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Jason Sonenshein wrote:</b><br />
	<i> Thank you, Mr. Cipriani, for revealing your and the rest of the anti-choice movement’s contempt for women who experience unintended pregnancies.</i><br />
	Jason &#8211; anti-choice?? get a grip. we&#8217;re not choosing a box of cereal in a grocery store isle.</p>
<p>	would-be rapists make choices, too. they choose to rape or not rape. do i need to suuport him in raping because I&#8217;m &#8220;pro-choice?&#8221; no &#8211; the fact that the rapist is making a choice is not the significant fact in determining whether to support rape.</p>
<p>	people do not support rape because it&#8217;s a BAD CHOICE.</p>
<p>	Jason, I really am in favor of people having choices. just not the choice that leads to a murder. granted, i realize this is more of a mini-murder to you. one you can ignore.</p>
<p>	maybe my more sensitive audience can understand this: we all make choices. some good. and some bad. we live. we learn. but our bad choices don&#8217;t necessarily need to lead to an even worse choice &#8211; ending a life.</p>
<p>	to my less sensitive audience: why would i give a rat&#8217;s ass about a woman&#8217;s senseless prerogative when it means the ending of another human&#8217;s chance to live?</p>
<p>	(except in the rare circumstance of rape or potential harm to a mother)</p>
<p>	being fixated on &#8220;choice&#8221; when discussing abortion is like being concerned about a house fire during a nuclear holocaust.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51507</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 02:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jason Sonenshein,

	I see so you say it is a woman&#039;s choice to commit genocide and infanticide.

	abortion is defined as infanticide by Charles Darwin and Susan B. Anthony.

	mass abortion meets the qualification for the international definition of genocide.

	Hitler would be proud of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Sonenshein,</p>
<p>	I see so you say it is a woman&#8217;s choice to commit genocide and infanticide.</p>
<p>	abortion is defined as infanticide by Charles Darwin and Susan B. Anthony.</p>
<p>	mass abortion meets the qualification for the international definition of genocide.</p>
<p>	Hitler would be proud of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Sonenshein</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Sonenshein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 01:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/#comment-51501</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;We’ll get into the 4th choice — the choice not to whore yourself out and get pregnant — in another post.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
	Thank you, Mr. Cipriani, for revealing your and the rest of the anti-choice movement&#039;s contempt for women who experience unintended pregnancies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;We’ll get into the 4th choice — the choice not to whore yourself out and get pregnant — in another post.&#8221;</i><br />
	Thank you, Mr. Cipriani, for revealing your and the rest of the anti-choice movement&#8217;s contempt for women who experience unintended pregnancies.</p>
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		<title>By: kerwin_brown</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/06/04/claire-keyes-a-voice-of-choice-discourages-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-51500</link>
		<dc:creator>kerwin_brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 18:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am clad to hear that pro life is winning the battle but I still feel the progress is very slow. We need to give women aid in not killing their own children.  It is horrible that the barbaric practice of infanticide is so prevalent in the United States.  It is also sad that their are people like BV that are so brain washed that they fail to think for themselves.  I wonder if there is anything that can get their brain working again or are they always going to be the puppets of the Elite crud that rules us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am clad to hear that pro life is winning the battle but I still feel the progress is very slow. We need to give women aid in not killing their own children.  It is horrible that the barbaric practice of infanticide is so prevalent in the United States.  It is also sad that their are people like BV that are so brain washed that they fail to think for themselves.  I wonder if there is anything that can get their brain working again or are they always going to be the puppets of the Elite crud that rules us.</p>
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