Comments on: Public Library Records and the Patriot Act http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/ Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:08:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » Patriot Act Compromise Not Satisfactory For ACLU http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46306 Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » Patriot Act Compromise Not Satisfactory For ACLU Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:20:20 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46306 [...] While there are many examples of why obtaining internet records from Public Libraries has been beneficial in the war on terror, the ACLU will not be happy until the Patriot Act is stripped down to complete ineffectiveness. The American Civil Liberties Union today expressed disappointment at the announcement of a deal between the White House and key lawmakers to reauthorize the Patriot Act without the most needed changes to protect freedom and privacy. Just last week, the act was extended until March 10, 2006 to allow more time for debate and negotiations. [...] [...] While there are many examples of why obtaining internet records from Public Libraries has been beneficial in the war on terror, the ACLU will not be happy until the Patriot Act is stripped down to complete ineffectiveness. The American Civil Liberties Union today expressed disappointment at the announcement of a deal between the White House and key lawmakers to reauthorize the Patriot Act without the most needed changes to protect freedom and privacy. Just last week, the act was extended until March 10, 2006 to allow more time for debate and negotiations. [...]

]]> By: D.j. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46305 D.j. Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:33:00 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46305 And on another note, didn't the liberals use Clearance Thomas' library and movie rental records against him in his confirmation hearings??? I think we have yet another double standard here. And on another note, didn’t the liberals use Clearance Thomas’ library and movie rental records against him in his confirmation hearings??? I think we have yet another double standard here.

]]> By: D.j. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46310 D.j. Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:30:58 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46310 I would think that there was probable cause. If the email was traced to a computer in a public library, wouldn't that be probable cause to inspect the computer for evidence? I'm not a lawyer, but that seems to be commonsense. Too bad everyone thinks because they watch CSI or Law and Order they think they can tell the FBI what the rules are. If that building would have been blown up, what would the librarian think about the people who were killeds rights? I would think that there was probable cause. If the email was traced to a computer in a public library, wouldn’t that be probable cause to inspect the computer for evidence? I’m not a lawyer, but that seems to be commonsense. Too bad everyone thinks because they watch CSI or Law and Order they think they can tell the FBI what the rules are. If that building would have been blown up, what would the librarian think about the people who were killeds rights?

]]> By: BIG DOG's WEBLOG http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46311 BIG DOG's WEBLOG Wed, 08 Feb 2006 02:04:13 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46311 <strong>Why Surveillance Program Is Needed</strong> This week on 24 Jack Bowers and his group used a satellite to track the call of an American talking to a terrorist who wanted to detonate a bomb filled with weaponized nerve gas. The American was going to provide the necessary codes and the team inter... Why Surveillance Program Is Needed
This week on 24 Jack Bowers and his group used a satellite to track the call of an American talking to a terrorist who wanted to detonate a bomb filled with weaponized nerve gas. The American was going to provide the necessary codes and the team inter…

]]> By: RedSonja2000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46304 RedSonja2000 Tue, 07 Feb 2006 21:29:17 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46304 NewtonRes: "RedSonja has it wrong. Mr. Cohen is MAYOR Cohen, not an FBI agent." You are correct, my appologies. I also noted this in that article: "After a brief standoff, FBI officials relented and sought a warrant from a judge. Meanwhile, Ms. Glick-Weil allowed an FBI computer-forensics examiner to work with information-technology specialists at the library to narrow down which computers might have been used to send the threatening message. They determined that three computers were implicated in the alleged crime." Bottom line is any info gathered without a warrant is inadmissible in court. If frustrates you that warrants are necessary, just imagine how you will feel when a terrorist is allowed to walk out of court scot free. NewtonRes:
“RedSonja has it wrong. Mr. Cohen is MAYOR Cohen, not an FBI agent.”

You are correct, my appologies.

I also noted this in that article:
“After a brief standoff, FBI officials relented and sought a warrant from a
judge. Meanwhile, Ms. Glick-Weil allowed an FBI computer-forensics examiner
to work with information-technology specialists at the library to narrow
down which computers might have been used to send the threatening message.
They determined that three computers were implicated in the alleged crime.”

Bottom line is any info gathered without a warrant is inadmissible in court. If frustrates you that warrants are necessary, just imagine how you will feel when a terrorist is allowed to walk out of court scot free.

]]> By: NewtonRes http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46309 NewtonRes Tue, 07 Feb 2006 21:11:50 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46309 RedSonja has it wrong. Mr. Cohen is MAYOR Cohen, not an FBI agent. He sided with the librarian and SUPPOSES that the FBI would have taken the computer if there was a "clear and present danger." Buildings were evacuated and a local high school was dismissed. The FBI agents showed up at the library less than two hours after the threat was emailed. Do you really think they were going to read or care about other emails? Thank goodness the outcome of this event was that nothing happened. What would people say about the librarian and Mayor if it had turned out otherwise? RedSonja has it wrong. Mr. Cohen is MAYOR Cohen, not an FBI agent. He sided with the librarian and SUPPOSES that the FBI would have taken the computer if there was a “clear and present danger.” Buildings were evacuated and a local high school was dismissed.

The FBI agents showed up at the library less than two hours after the threat was emailed. Do you really think they were going to read or care about other emails?

Thank goodness the outcome of this event was that nothing happened. What would people say about the librarian and Mayor if it had turned out otherwise?

]]> By: Jay http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46313 Jay Tue, 07 Feb 2006 19:18:18 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46313 Yes, you are so smart actus. The library should destroy their records so that no evidence can be found to capture terrorist activity being perpetrated from it. Then they would be a terrorist sanctuary even more than they are now. Yes, you are so smart actus. The library should destroy their records so that no evidence can be found to capture terrorist activity being perpetrated from it. Then they would be a terrorist sanctuary even more than they are now.

]]> By: actus http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46307 actus Tue, 07 Feb 2006 19:14:16 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46307 Libraries should destroy their records. Libraries should destroy their records.

]]> By: Jay http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46303 Jay Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:40:24 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46303 While the Fourth amendment protects "people" and not "property", there must be a reasonable expectation of privacy upon which one may ''justifiably'' rely on. A public library does not fall under that category, nor does any demonstration on public property. It is not reasonable to think that actions performed in public settings are private matters. What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection. While the Fourth amendment protects “people” and not “property”, there must be a reasonable expectation of privacy upon which one may ”justifiably” rely on. A public library does not fall under that category, nor does any demonstration on public property. It is not reasonable to think that actions performed in public settings are private matters.

What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection.

]]> By: RedSonja2000 http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/comment-page-1/#comment-46312 RedSonja2000 Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:30:56 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2006/02/07/public-library-records-and-the-patriot-act/#comment-46312 This is from the FBI agent involved: "Mr. Cohen said in an interview on Monday that he and Ms. Glick-Weil demanded the warrant because the FBI agents did not indicate that anyone at Brandeis faced a "clear and present danger." If there had been such a danger, Mr. Cohen added, agents probably would have seized the computers without even asking for them. "We were able to both protect public safety and also protect the rights of people, the sense of privacy of many, many innocent users of the computers," he said. "Had we given them the computers, they would have gotten to see e-mails from ordinary citizens doing ordinary things and would not have preserved privacy." The link to the above article appears to be broken, but here it is: http://chronicle.com/temp/email2.php?id=HZs6ytfGjgq2jTYrv2bddZnqv3qYq6rp looks like the article cited by Jay is a tad less than honest. This is from the FBI agent involved:

“Mr. Cohen said in an interview on Monday that he and Ms. Glick-Weil demanded the warrant because the FBI agents did not indicate that anyone at Brandeis faced a “clear and present danger.” If there had been such a danger, Mr. Cohen added, agents probably would have seized the computers without even asking for them.

“We were able to both protect public safety and also protect the rights of people, the sense of privacy of many, many innocent users of the computers,” he said. “Had we given them the computers, they would have gotten to see e-mails from ordinary citizens doing ordinary things and would not have preserved privacy.”

The link to the above article appears to be broken, but here it is:
http://chronicle.com/temp/email2.php?id=HZs6ytfGjgq2jTYrv2bddZnqv3qYq6rp

looks like the article cited by Jay is a tad less than honest.

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