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	<title>Comments on: McCain, Bush Agree On Torture Ban, Still Not Good Enough for ACLU</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: Stop The ACLU &#38;#38;#187; Blog Archive &#38;#38;#187; America Is Under Attack</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43077</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop The ACLU &#38;#38;#187; Blog Archive &#38;#38;#187; America Is Under Attack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] On Thursday, McCain effectively gave the terrrorists their own Bill of Rights, and while the ACLU applauded this, they were still unhappy that it also extended rights to those that might be falsely accused of violating the terrorists newfound rights. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On Thursday, McCain effectively gave the terrrorists their own Bill of Rights, and while the ACLU applauded this, they were still unhappy that it also extended rights to those that might be falsely accused of violating the terrorists newfound rights. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bland</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43076</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What does genetics have to do with it?

	My ancestry is primarily Fwench, but I am no cheese-eating surrender monkey.  The choices people make in their lives is much more important than their genetics.

	Unless you presume to tell us that the Palestineans are GENETICALLY incapable of living in peace with their neighbors.  Um, such a suggestion is kinda, well, uh, racist.  There, I said it.  I feel better.  Don&#039;t  you?

	Isrealis and Palestineans may share some genetic material (those that did not emigrate there, I suggest you look up some Isrealis, as they are very &quot;integrated&quot;) but Palestine remains a thugocracy while Isreal is a stable democracy.

	And as an aside, anyone who quotes the President as saying &quot;30,000 civilians&quot; is dead wrong.  He said &quot;30,000 CITIZENS&quot;.  Look it up.

	While y&#039;all are at it, you may want to look up public law 107-243, and public law 105-235.  Then look up the numerous occasions where Saddam violated his own cease-fire agreement.  Then tell me if WMD (ULULULULULU) is the very first thing mentioned.

	Besides, I have a hard time not hating terrorist assbags.  Call me a neo-con (Oh no Batman!), but I still find the deliberate targeting of civilians by these thugs repulsive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does genetics have to do with it?</p>
<p>	My ancestry is primarily Fwench, but I am no cheese-eating surrender monkey.  The choices people make in their lives is much more important than their genetics.</p>
<p>	Unless you presume to tell us that the Palestineans are GENETICALLY incapable of living in peace with their neighbors.  Um, such a suggestion is kinda, well, uh, racist.  There, I said it.  I feel better.  Don&#8217;t  you?</p>
<p>	Isrealis and Palestineans may share some genetic material (those that did not emigrate there, I suggest you look up some Isrealis, as they are very &#8220;integrated&#8221;) but Palestine remains a thugocracy while Isreal is a stable democracy.</p>
<p>	And as an aside, anyone who quotes the President as saying &#8220;30,000 civilians&#8221; is dead wrong.  He said &#8220;30,000 CITIZENS&#8221;.  Look it up.</p>
<p>	While y&#8217;all are at it, you may want to look up public law 107-243, and public law 105-235.  Then look up the numerous occasions where Saddam violated his own cease-fire agreement.  Then tell me if WMD (ULULULULULU) is the very first thing mentioned.</p>
<p>	Besides, I have a hard time not hating terrorist assbags.  Call me a neo-con (Oh no Batman!), but I still find the deliberate targeting of civilians by these thugs repulsive.</p>
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		<title>By: July Canute</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43075</link>
		<dc:creator>July Canute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Were you not claiming Saddam had WMD and telling the rest of us we hated America if we said otherwise?

	Whatever comes out of the rightwing talking points you will go along with.  Bush can say one thing today and something else tomorrow and you will go along.

	When Bush was campaigning didn&#039;t he say he didn&#039;t belive in nation building?  Now you are gung ho for nation building.

	Are Arabs evil terrorists whom we must kill before they kill us?

	Or are they the most important people of the half the world that doesn&#039;t have democracy, so important we must spend 500 billion dollars in order to give them democracy?

	Which is it?

	FYI Scientists have found that the Palestinian people have the same DNA as the Jews of ancient Israel and the Jews of Northern Africa and the Jews who have lived in the middle east for thousands of years.  The white Jews such as Bill Krystal and the neo-cons do not have that DNA.  Do the research and see for yourself.  If you hate the Palestinians then doesn&#039;t that make you the anti-semites?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were you not claiming Saddam had WMD and telling the rest of us we hated America if we said otherwise?</p>
<p>	Whatever comes out of the rightwing talking points you will go along with.  Bush can say one thing today and something else tomorrow and you will go along.</p>
<p>	When Bush was campaigning didn&#8217;t he say he didn&#8217;t belive in nation building?  Now you are gung ho for nation building.</p>
<p>	Are Arabs evil terrorists whom we must kill before they kill us?</p>
<p>	Or are they the most important people of the half the world that doesn&#8217;t have democracy, so important we must spend 500 billion dollars in order to give them democracy?</p>
<p>	Which is it?</p>
<p>	FYI Scientists have found that the Palestinian people have the same DNA as the Jews of ancient Israel and the Jews of Northern Africa and the Jews who have lived in the middle east for thousands of years.  The white Jews such as Bill Krystal and the neo-cons do not have that DNA.  Do the research and see for yourself.  If you hate the Palestinians then doesn&#8217;t that make you the anti-semites?</p>
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		<title>By: gisher</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43074</link>
		<dc:creator>gisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43074</guid>
		<description>Forgive me but Neo-cons is way too narrow, extremeists period, from any direction are our biggest problem, anyone unwilling to find common ground, they are the biggest nightmare. i know far right and far left people who are quite civil and quite human, and willing to work towards agreement. the my way or the highway crowd, they are death incarnate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me but Neo-cons is way too narrow, extremeists period, from any direction are our biggest problem, anyone unwilling to find common ground, they are the biggest nightmare. i know far right and far left people who are quite civil and quite human, and willing to work towards agreement. the my way or the highway crowd, they are death incarnate.</p>
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		<title>By: Hyscience</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43073</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyscience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43073</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A &#039;Bill of Rights&#039; For Terrorists&lt;/strong&gt;
	And let&#039;s not forget the Islamist&#039;s favorite - chopping off heads and limbs, and slaughtering those that don&#039;t believe in their version of Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A &#8216;Bill of Rights&#8217; For Terrorists</strong><br />
	And let&#8217;s not forget the Islamist&#8217;s favorite &#8211; chopping off heads and limbs, and slaughtering those that don&#8217;t believe in their version of Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Daily Intel Briefing - Kilo Echo 4</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43072</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Intel Briefing - Kilo Echo 4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43072</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;News, Analysis &#38;#38; Opinion&lt;/strong&gt;
	Like I said in yesterday&#039;s post, this is going to come back to haunt us, and open the door for numerous court cases that will give ample opportunity for A.C.L.U. and &#039;human rights&#039; lawyers to bash the U.S. and further weaken our efforts against the ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>News, Analysis &#38;#38;#38; Opinion</strong><br />
	Like I said in yesterday&#8217;s post, this is going to come back to haunt us, and open the door for numerous court cases that will give ample opportunity for A.C.L.U. and &#8216;human rights&#8217; lawyers to bash the U.S. and further weaken our efforts against the &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: christy</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43071</link>
		<dc:creator>christy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43071</guid>
		<description>and that also means that we do harbor terrorists and train them. Furthermore Bush allowed the terrorists of 9-11 to enter the country even though they were on terrorist watch lists.

	Untill 9/11 there was no Terrorist watch list to speak of except for a few people that were know Terrorists not suspected like now. Two they were Arab men who came here to learn a trade and UNTILL 9/11 showed no signs of being terrorists.

	The Arabs want to sell their oil. We need to buy it. So why are we enemies genius?

	This has nothing to do with oil.
	history lesson in 1979 Iran took over the American Embassy. Our so peaceful Predisent Carter allowed it to go on for 455 days.1983 bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit.All during the 1980&#039;s the Hostages taken and held some of them up to 15 years.Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The cease fire listed things that Saddam had to comply with wich he complied with none of them. Shooting at American and Brtish planes over the no fly zone,shooting down 4American planes. Paying the families of suicide bombers. REFUSEL to comply with 17 UN resolutions on inspections and many other things. The Oil for Food scandal.Every UN resolution stated that Saddam had and refused to allow inspectors to inspect their weapons stock piles.
	1993 World trade Center Bombing,the Embassy bombings in Africa, The USS Cole. We did not start this it is a fight that has been going on for over thirty years. But reat assured that when all is said and done we WILL be the ones left standing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and that also means that we do harbor terrorists and train them. Furthermore Bush allowed the terrorists of 9-11 to enter the country even though they were on terrorist watch lists.</p>
<p>	Untill 9/11 there was no Terrorist watch list to speak of except for a few people that were know Terrorists not suspected like now. Two they were Arab men who came here to learn a trade and UNTILL 9/11 showed no signs of being terrorists.</p>
<p>	The Arabs want to sell their oil. We need to buy it. So why are we enemies genius?</p>
<p>	This has nothing to do with oil.<br />
	history lesson in 1979 Iran took over the American Embassy. Our so peaceful Predisent Carter allowed it to go on for 455 days.1983 bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit.All during the 1980&#8217;s the Hostages taken and held some of them up to 15 years.Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The cease fire listed things that Saddam had to comply with wich he complied with none of them. Shooting at American and Brtish planes over the no fly zone,shooting down 4American planes. Paying the families of suicide bombers. REFUSEL to comply with 17 UN resolutions on inspections and many other things. The Oil for Food scandal.Every UN resolution stated that Saddam had and refused to allow inspectors to inspect their weapons stock piles.<br />
	1993 World trade Center Bombing,the Embassy bombings in Africa, The USS Cole. We did not start this it is a fight that has been going on for over thirty years. But reat assured that when all is said and done we WILL be the ones left standing.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43070</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The time is now to consider how many would I had we not gone into Iraq. we started with 3000 civilians. Apparently, the leftists aren&#039;t satisfied with that number of civilians killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The time is now to consider how many would I had we not gone into Iraq. we started with 3000 civilians. Apparently, the leftists aren&#8217;t satisfied with that number of civilians killed.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bland</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43069</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43069</guid>
		<description>About the &quot;WWJD&quot; argument relating to things like Islamofascism:

	Jesus, unlike Islam, preaches a message of peace and personal accountability.  He had nothing to say to the leaders of nations.  His messafe was meant to be taken to heart at an individual level.

	It would be nice if we could all &quot;just give peace a chance&quot;, but there really are people out there who hate us enough to try to kill anyone who was born here.  Turning the other cheek just doesn&#039;t work in the nuclear age.

	Hard to turn something that has been atomized.

	And if Mohammed got his hands on Jesus, he probably would have put him to death for being a Jew.  Based on his performance in the region, at any rate.  Do any of you people bother to read the Koran?  CAIR is giving them away, literally, and you may learn a lot.

	Me, I like hamburgers but don&#039;t necassarily want to meet the cow.

	Or, to put it in another light, who do you trust more-the US Army or the Armies of Allah?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the &#8220;WWJD&#8221; argument relating to things like Islamofascism:</p>
<p>	Jesus, unlike Islam, preaches a message of peace and personal accountability.  He had nothing to say to the leaders of nations.  His messafe was meant to be taken to heart at an individual level.</p>
<p>	It would be nice if we could all &#8220;just give peace a chance&#8221;, but there really are people out there who hate us enough to try to kill anyone who was born here.  Turning the other cheek just doesn&#8217;t work in the nuclear age.</p>
<p>	Hard to turn something that has been atomized.</p>
<p>	And if Mohammed got his hands on Jesus, he probably would have put him to death for being a Jew.  Based on his performance in the region, at any rate.  Do any of you people bother to read the Koran?  CAIR is giving them away, literally, and you may learn a lot.</p>
<p>	Me, I like hamburgers but don&#8217;t necassarily want to meet the cow.</p>
<p>	Or, to put it in another light, who do you trust more-the US Army or the Armies of Allah?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bland</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/comment-page-1/#comment-43068</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/12/15/mccain-bush-agree-on-torture-ban-still-not-good-enough-for-aclu/#comment-43068</guid>
		<description>Wow, you managed to hit the entire moonbat rant list.

	Congratulations.

	&quot;The Zionist Jews at Project for the New American Century planned the foreign policy that is now being carried out in the middle east. They plan to make Israel a superpower in the region with Arab counties as minor sattelites revolving around a powerful Israel and this will be “a new Middle East”. If you know nothing of any of this that does not make me an anti-semite.&quot;

	Riiiigghhhttt.  The &quot;JOOOOOOOOOOS did it&quot; argument.  Sure.  While it is not uncommon to see these sort of paranoid delusions coming out of the mouth of President Abinawhackjob of Iran, it is suprising to see it from someone who is presuming to lecture the rest of us on our behavior.

	ULULULULULULULULU!

	Anyway, back here in the real world, those of us who have been to the region know different.  I have seen the Mein Kampf for sale prominently in a lot of Arab countries.  A tome that shares a lot with your fantasies about the &quot;zionists&quot;.  Not calling you an anti-semite.  Just sayin, is all.

	It must really piss you off that the Iraqis roundly rejected the joys of Islamoidiocy for the more stable joys of democracy.  they just used the wrong finger for the purple ink, is all.

	That and our strategy of having a stable republic is having an effect on ME politics.  Already.  Can&#039;t you see that is the end goal?  Why else do you think the troops in the field are so enthusiastic for supporting this mission?

	If they weren&#039;t, why else would re-enlistment rates be through the roof?

	It all comes down to perception.  Personally, I have a hard time calling the ACLU and Amnesty International over things that are  routinely done to our pilots and SF troops at schools like SERE.  The ACLU probably thinks that raising your voice at people we capture in the field is just terrible! and we need to stop immediately.

	Tell you what, go look up the concept of &quot;war&quot; and &quot;loyal opposition&quot; instead of spouting the DNC party line.  Then get back to me.

	The ACLU may not be useful, but they are idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, you managed to hit the entire moonbat rant list.</p>
<p>	Congratulations.</p>
<p>	&#8220;The Zionist Jews at Project for the New American Century planned the foreign policy that is now being carried out in the middle east. They plan to make Israel a superpower in the region with Arab counties as minor sattelites revolving around a powerful Israel and this will be “a new Middle East”. If you know nothing of any of this that does not make me an anti-semite.&#8221;</p>
<p>	Riiiigghhhttt.  The &#8220;JOOOOOOOOOOS did it&#8221; argument.  Sure.  While it is not uncommon to see these sort of paranoid delusions coming out of the mouth of President Abinawhackjob of Iran, it is suprising to see it from someone who is presuming to lecture the rest of us on our behavior.</p>
<p>	ULULULULULULULULU!</p>
<p>	Anyway, back here in the real world, those of us who have been to the region know different.  I have seen the Mein Kampf for sale prominently in a lot of Arab countries.  A tome that shares a lot with your fantasies about the &#8220;zionists&#8221;.  Not calling you an anti-semite.  Just sayin, is all.</p>
<p>	It must really piss you off that the Iraqis roundly rejected the joys of Islamoidiocy for the more stable joys of democracy.  they just used the wrong finger for the purple ink, is all.</p>
<p>	That and our strategy of having a stable republic is having an effect on ME politics.  Already.  Can&#8217;t you see that is the end goal?  Why else do you think the troops in the field are so enthusiastic for supporting this mission?</p>
<p>	If they weren&#8217;t, why else would re-enlistment rates be through the roof?</p>
<p>	It all comes down to perception.  Personally, I have a hard time calling the ACLU and Amnesty International over things that are  routinely done to our pilots and SF troops at schools like SERE.  The ACLU probably thinks that raising your voice at people we capture in the field is just terrible! and we need to stop immediately.</p>
<p>	Tell you what, go look up the concept of &#8220;war&#8221; and &#8220;loyal opposition&#8221; instead of spouting the DNC party line.  Then get back to me.</p>
<p>	The ACLU may not be useful, but they are idiots.</p>
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