McCain, Bush Agree On Torture Ban, Still Not Good Enough for ACLU
Posted on December 15, 2005
WASHINGTON (CNN) — After months of opposition, the White House agreed Thursday to Republican Sen. John McCain’s call to ban torture by U.S. personnel.
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Virginia, and McCain, R-Arizona, met with President Bush to discuss the deal, which Warner said he expects to be finalized by the end of the day.
After the meeting, McCain said “this is a done deal.”
Warner called it “landmark legislation” and lauded McCain for “staying the course.” He said the Senate and House would vote on the ban soon.
Republican officials said the tweaked version of the bill will include everything that McCain initially requested. His initial bill called for banning all U.S. personnel from engaging in “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment” of detainees.
Warner’s Republican counterpart in the House, Rep. Duncan Hunter of California, told CNN’s Andrea Koppel a lot of details must be worked out before a final deal is reached.
“We’re working to merge the two vital American goals of treating people humanely and at the same time maintaining an effective intelligence gathering system,” Hunter said.
“We think we’re about to do something that’s good for the country.”
Anti Idiotarian Rottweiller asks Why Don’t We Just Surrender and Get it Over With? So now that Al Qadea has its own Bill of Rights granted to it, the ACLU are applauding! Of course they are, because this is not only protecting terrorists from rough interrogation, it may very well have given Miranda rights as well as free lawyers —payed for by the Americans they are trying to kill. Now where do you think those lawyers will come from? Before this ridiculous bill, it was to our advantage that terrorists were not protected under the Geneva Conventions, and I believe there was good reason when the Geneva Conventions were written to exclude such monsters. This bill rewards the enemy with deferential treatment similar to that given honorable prisoners of war.
So now, who defines torture? Is being wrapped in the Israeli flag torture? Well according to this bill, one could define it as “degrading.” So, expect the usual suspects like the ACLU to start filing many more lawsuits in favor of our enemies. This bill is fuel to the ACLU’s anti-American fire.
But wait!!!! The ACLU are not happy with some of the compromises made. Giving rights to the terrorists was not enough.
“But the wheeling and dealing doesn’t stop. While today’s vote is a step in the right direction, it is severely undermined by reports that a secret back-room deal has been brokered that would undermine the very principles the House affirmed today. This proposed last-minute, closed-door deal that undermines the rule of law must not be allowed to pass. These changes will be a big step backward in stopping the government from using torture and abuse during interrogations. Instead of putting an end to the federal government’s use of torture and abuse, the proposed deal would remove many protections against torture and abuse.
“If the dealmakers get their way, for the first time in its history, Congress would authorize the use of evidence obtained by torture and would provide special rights for government officials who commit torture or abuse. In addition, it would also mark the first time in modern history that Congress stripped all courts, including the Supreme Court, of jurisdiction to stop torture or abuse, or other violations of due process. We urge all lawmakers to reject these proposals and stand for the rule of law.”
So, giving terrorists that want to kill us, or have even tried to kill us, protections is not enough for the anti-American Civil Liberties Union…they are up in arms now that we have made a deal that would give rights to someone that might be falsely accused of torture. They don’t want special rights for government officials. What a double standard we have here. According to the ACLU someone accused of terrorism should be allowed to defend themselves in Court, but someone accused of roughing them up should have no rights at all. How typical of the Anti-American Counter Liberties Union. Bush what were you thinking?
Ha, I guess I wasn’t the one who coined the phrase, Al Qaeda Bill of Rights, looks like ol’ Rush Limbaugh agrees.
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17 Responses to “McCain, Bush Agree On Torture Ban, Still Not Good Enough for ACLU”
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cheer up. we can still take a terrorist into a room and broadcast rush limnaugh and al franken’s radio programs. after one hour the will be begging you to let them tell you where osama is.
Rush may be torture to a terrorist, but al franken would be almost a religious sermon to them….toss in a couple of “great satans” and an “allah akbar” or two from franken and you would have a typical islamic sermon.
The terrorists still at large must be gleeful over this one.
I despise the ACLU – however – Could you please show me the scripture where Jesus said its just swell to torture people? Gee I wonder why its against the law in the United States and also against international law to torture?
Most of all I wonder about the spirit of hate and anger that comes from the hearts of people who claim to know Jesus. What justification do you have for killing people just because there might be a terrorist attack? If Tim McVeigh had gone into Canada and hi-jacked a plane and killed 3000 people should Canada invade America and kill Americans?
John McCain was a POW and he has very good reasons for being against torture.
Doesn’t the Bible say “Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman who need not be ashamed”? Yes it does. Perhaps you should take this to heart.
For instance. We were attacked on 9-11 by Al Queda and bin laden who trained in Afganistan which was controled by the Taliban. The Taliban was invited to the White House where the Bush adm negotiated for a pipeline thru Afganistan. bin laden has written public letters to the American people telling us we were attacked because of our policies toward Israel.
Thomas Friedman has admitted that 25 people are responsible for the iraqi war.
http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_11_21/article.html
conclusions
1. To end terrorism we need to change our policies toward the middle east. Israel is imperical evidence that violence does not end terrorism.
2. The Neo-cons are the biggest threat to America and Americans are dying everyday because of them.
Why did Bush capitulate? Does he really think McCain is a friend? Granted, McCain supports the war, but many American lives will be lost with this law. Torture scumbags to save lives is a good thing, regardless of the ACLU’s position.
Where there is a will there is a way to get information from the enemy. GI,s will figure it out.
What more needs to be said? I am going to drink a lot of liquor and fervently pray for the republic.
Of course, we could have NAMBLA literature translated into Arabic for them to read instead of the Koran. I think this would make them talk.
If Tim McVeigh had gone into Canada and hi-jacked a plane and killed 3000 people should Canada invade America and kill Americans?
No, moron. You see our government doesn’t harbor and actively support nutjobs like McVeigh, unlike the Taliban.
And I find it hilarious that you think that all conservatives are Christians. You might want to actually get to know a few conservatives instead of using tired stereotypes. I’m an atheist, you hack. Furthermore, I don’t give a damn if some terrorist gets knee-capped.
bin laden has written public letters to the American people telling us we were attacked because of our policies toward Israel.
Of course, it always about the Jews with you nutjobs. Maybe you ought to go read his numerless writings about Al Qaeda’s true goal of restoring the global Caliphate. In fact “Al Qaeda” means “The base” or “The foundation”, as in they will serve as the foundation of the global Caliphate.
To end terrorism we need to change our policies toward the middle east. Israel is imperical evidence that violence does not end terrorism.
Well we did change our policy towards the Middle East. Instead of ignoring corrupt dictators, now we kick them out and give the people the freedom to choose their leaders. Actually, Israel is empirical evidence that capitulating does not end terrorism. They’ve gotten nothing in return for their countless compromises except for more terrorism.
The Neo-cons are the biggest threat to America and Americans are dying everyday because of them.
Right… Let’s see some evidence.
Take a look at the nightly news. Oh wait, they’re not reporting American deaths in Iraq? Never mind.
The Taliban allowed Al Queda to train in Afganistan. They oppressed and murdered the people of Afganistan who were also their victims. Bin laden and most of the hi-jackers are from Sauid Arabia. So why did we invade Iraq? I’m may be a moron but at least I don’t confuse Iraq with Saudi Arabia or Afganistan. Why is Prince Bandahar and the Saudi Royals good friends of the Bush family if Arabs are so evil?
The pilots of 9-11 trained to fly commerical aircraft in Jeb Bush’s florida so I suppose we should invade Florida and take out Jeb and drop bombs on everybody else?
and that also means that we do harbor terrorists and train them. Furthermore Bush allowed the terrorists of 9-11 to enter the country even though they were on terrorist watch lists.
I don’t think all Conservatives are Chrsitian. I don’t think any of you are. By their fruits you know them.
bin laden’s letters are PUBLIC therefore they are on the internet for anyone to read.
The Arabs want to sell their oil. We need to buy it. So why are we enemies genius?
The Palestinians and Jews have been killing one another for 50 years because Jews are occupying Palestian land and the Palestinians don’t want them there. 50 years of violence is evidence that we must address the root causes of terrorism and Bush has created more terrorists by his actions. Torturing people will not end terrorism.
Why did Bush negotiate with the Taliban if they were so evil. We knew what they were doing even back during the Clinton adm because Clinton talked about them.
Google “Saddam shaking hands with Rumsfeld” and you’ll find out where Saddam got his WMD. From Ronald Reagan. We knew he was a thug and yet they dealt with him.
The Zionist Jews at Project for the New American Century planned the foreign policy that is now being carried out in the middle east. They plan to make Israel a superpower in the region with Arab counties as minor sattelites revolving around a powerful Israel and this will be “a new Middle East”. If you know nothing of any of this that does not make me an anti-semite.
Could someone please tell me what the difference is between hating Jews and hating Arabs? Why is it bad to be an “anti-semite” but ok to hate Arabs, round them up in a pogrom and lock them away at Gitmo without due process and torture them and humiliate them and their religion? Is this a bad reflection upon them or is it a bad reflection upon America and everything we are supposed to stand for? Isn’t the entire world watching what we are doing in Jesus’ name? Didn’t Jesus die for Arabs? Perhaps they don’t accept Him but neither do the Jews.
We used to have wonderful Arabists in our State Department but now we don’t have two people there who can even speak Arabic. At what point did we begin to lose the Arabists? Why?
Wow, you managed to hit the entire moonbat rant list.
Congratulations.
“The Zionist Jews at Project for the New American Century planned the foreign policy that is now being carried out in the middle east. They plan to make Israel a superpower in the region with Arab counties as minor sattelites revolving around a powerful Israel and this will be “a new Middle East”. If you know nothing of any of this that does not make me an anti-semite.”
Riiiigghhhttt. The “JOOOOOOOOOOS did it” argument. Sure. While it is not uncommon to see these sort of paranoid delusions coming out of the mouth of President Abinawhackjob of Iran, it is suprising to see it from someone who is presuming to lecture the rest of us on our behavior.
ULULULULULULULULU!
Anyway, back here in the real world, those of us who have been to the region know different. I have seen the Mein Kampf for sale prominently in a lot of Arab countries. A tome that shares a lot with your fantasies about the “zionists”. Not calling you an anti-semite. Just sayin, is all.
It must really piss you off that the Iraqis roundly rejected the joys of Islamoidiocy for the more stable joys of democracy. they just used the wrong finger for the purple ink, is all.
That and our strategy of having a stable republic is having an effect on ME politics. Already. Can’t you see that is the end goal? Why else do you think the troops in the field are so enthusiastic for supporting this mission?
If they weren’t, why else would re-enlistment rates be through the roof?
It all comes down to perception. Personally, I have a hard time calling the ACLU and Amnesty International over things that are routinely done to our pilots and SF troops at schools like SERE. The ACLU probably thinks that raising your voice at people we capture in the field is just terrible! and we need to stop immediately.
Tell you what, go look up the concept of “war” and “loyal opposition” instead of spouting the DNC party line. Then get back to me.
The ACLU may not be useful, but they are idiots.
About the “WWJD” argument relating to things like Islamofascism:
Jesus, unlike Islam, preaches a message of peace and personal accountability. He had nothing to say to the leaders of nations. His messafe was meant to be taken to heart at an individual level.
It would be nice if we could all “just give peace a chance”, but there really are people out there who hate us enough to try to kill anyone who was born here. Turning the other cheek just doesn’t work in the nuclear age.
Hard to turn something that has been atomized.
And if Mohammed got his hands on Jesus, he probably would have put him to death for being a Jew. Based on his performance in the region, at any rate. Do any of you people bother to read the Koran? CAIR is giving them away, literally, and you may learn a lot.
Me, I like hamburgers but don’t necassarily want to meet the cow.
Or, to put it in another light, who do you trust more-the US Army or the Armies of Allah?
The time is now to consider how many would I had we not gone into Iraq. we started with 3000 civilians. Apparently, the leftists aren’t satisfied with that number of civilians killed.
and that also means that we do harbor terrorists and train them. Furthermore Bush allowed the terrorists of 9-11 to enter the country even though they were on terrorist watch lists.
Untill 9/11 there was no Terrorist watch list to speak of except for a few people that were know Terrorists not suspected like now. Two they were Arab men who came here to learn a trade and UNTILL 9/11 showed no signs of being terrorists.
The Arabs want to sell their oil. We need to buy it. So why are we enemies genius?
This has nothing to do with oil.
history lesson in 1979 Iran took over the American Embassy. Our so peaceful Predisent Carter allowed it to go on for 455 days.1983 bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit.All during the 1980’s the Hostages taken and held some of them up to 15 years.Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The cease fire listed things that Saddam had to comply with wich he complied with none of them. Shooting at American and Brtish planes over the no fly zone,shooting down 4American planes. Paying the families of suicide bombers. REFUSEL to comply with 17 UN resolutions on inspections and many other things. The Oil for Food scandal.Every UN resolution stated that Saddam had and refused to allow inspectors to inspect their weapons stock piles.
1993 World trade Center Bombing,the Embassy bombings in Africa, The USS Cole. We did not start this it is a fight that has been going on for over thirty years. But reat assured that when all is said and done we WILL be the ones left standing.
Forgive me but Neo-cons is way too narrow, extremeists period, from any direction are our biggest problem, anyone unwilling to find common ground, they are the biggest nightmare. i know far right and far left people who are quite civil and quite human, and willing to work towards agreement. the my way or the highway crowd, they are death incarnate.
Were you not claiming Saddam had WMD and telling the rest of us we hated America if we said otherwise?
Whatever comes out of the rightwing talking points you will go along with. Bush can say one thing today and something else tomorrow and you will go along.
When Bush was campaigning didn’t he say he didn’t belive in nation building? Now you are gung ho for nation building.
Are Arabs evil terrorists whom we must kill before they kill us?
Or are they the most important people of the half the world that doesn’t have democracy, so important we must spend 500 billion dollars in order to give them democracy?
Which is it?
FYI Scientists have found that the Palestinian people have the same DNA as the Jews of ancient Israel and the Jews of Northern Africa and the Jews who have lived in the middle east for thousands of years. The white Jews such as Bill Krystal and the neo-cons do not have that DNA. Do the research and see for yourself. If you hate the Palestinians then doesn’t that make you the anti-semites?
What does genetics have to do with it?
My ancestry is primarily Fwench, but I am no cheese-eating surrender monkey. The choices people make in their lives is much more important than their genetics.
Unless you presume to tell us that the Palestineans are GENETICALLY incapable of living in peace with their neighbors. Um, such a suggestion is kinda, well, uh, racist. There, I said it. I feel better. Don’t you?
Isrealis and Palestineans may share some genetic material (those that did not emigrate there, I suggest you look up some Isrealis, as they are very “integrated”) but Palestine remains a thugocracy while Isreal is a stable democracy.
And as an aside, anyone who quotes the President as saying “30,000 civilians” is dead wrong. He said “30,000 CITIZENS”. Look it up.
While y’all are at it, you may want to look up public law 107-243, and public law 105-235. Then look up the numerous occasions where Saddam violated his own cease-fire agreement. Then tell me if WMD (ULULULULULU) is the very first thing mentioned.
Besides, I have a hard time not hating terrorist assbags. Call me a neo-con (Oh no Batman!), but I still find the deliberate targeting of civilians by these thugs repulsive.