Comments on: Freedom of Speech? http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/ Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:22:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Left Brain Female . . . in a Right Brain World » Carnival of Liberty XXI http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41163 Left Brain Female . . . in a Right Brain World » Carnival of Liberty XXI Fri, 09 Dec 2005 18:59:45 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41163 [...] Fiction (with a libertarian bent) comes in Mark Rayner’s The Skwib in the form of a retelling of the classic tale of William Tell in Alternate History Fridays: The Tragedy of William Tell. Mark has a slightly different take on the ending of the story - but I’ll not give it away here - other than this tiny exerpt! He shot his last bolt, and the townsfolk moved, as one, to subdue the other two. The rebellion had begun. Greg at Rhymes with Right submitted his post Not a First Amendment Violation???????? about a clergyman in Staten Island who is fighting in court against a violation of his free speech. Greg asks the question: Have freedom of speech and freedom of religion been eviscerated in this country because of the hyper-sensitivity and political clout of the sodomy lobby? We follow this up with Stop the ACLU where Jay takes on the issue of Freedom of Speech?. In this article, Jay, with a hat tip to fellow LLP’r Rhymes with Right remarks: Political Correctness has taken priority over freedom of speech. Homosexuals are now granted special rights, and anyone who speaks against it are treated as second class citizens. I agree - but homosexuals are certainly not the first group which has officially been granted special rights by the courts - and they’re not likely to be the last. The posts are well written, so meander on over and see what they’re all about! [...] [...] Fiction (with a libertarian bent) comes in Mark Rayner’s The Skwib in the form of a retelling of the classic tale of William Tell in Alternate History Fridays: The Tragedy of William Tell. Mark has a slightly different take on the ending of the story – but I’ll not give it away here – other than this tiny exerpt! He shot his last bolt, and the townsfolk moved, as one, to subdue the other two. The rebellion had begun. Greg at Rhymes with Right submitted his post Not a First Amendment Violation???????? about a clergyman in Staten Island who is fighting in court against a violation of his free speech. Greg asks the question: Have freedom of speech and freedom of religion been eviscerated in this country because of the hyper-sensitivity and political clout of the sodomy lobby? We follow this up with Stop the ACLU where Jay takes on the issue of Freedom of Speech?. In this article, Jay, with a hat tip to fellow LLP’r Rhymes with Right remarks: Political Correctness has taken priority over freedom of speech. Homosexuals are now granted special rights, and anyone who speaks against it are treated as second class citizens. I agree – but homosexuals are certainly not the first group which has officially been granted special rights by the courts – and they’re not likely to be the last. The posts are well written, so meander on over and see what they’re all about! [...]

]]> By: Rhymes With Right http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41162 Rhymes With Right Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:31:32 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41162 Why don't I jump in here. In my book, this is not at all about the right to "target people with hateful messages." Rather, it is about the right of people to engage in both political and religious speech free from government interference. The public citation of a verse from the Torah/Old Testament was banned by a government body. Does this not have grave implications for religious liberty? We are not talking about "special rights" here -- we are talking about one of the fundamental libertie that is written into the Constitution of the United States. What next? Will we see prosecutions like the one in Sweden, where a pastor is facing jail time for preaching on this same verse? Will we see a Canadian-style speech regulation regime which costs people jail time, criminal fines, civil damages, and (in some intsnces) employment because they express their moral and religiously based opposition to homosexuality in a non-violent manner? And dare i suggest, rump pumper, that there is something bitterly ironic abouta situation in which one side of an issue (the normalcy and morality of homosexuality) is freely permitted to speak in denigrating terms about their opponents in the name of freedom of speech and the other is banned from presenting its argument by the government under terms of a vaguely worded statute. And if you go to my site, rump pumper, you can see the actual billboard that was censored. Four versions of one Bible verse, a reference to the Almighty, and a citation of the source of the quotes. You certainly cannot call this an y sort of incitement to violence. http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/134317.php So I ask again -- has the Forst Amendment been eviscerated by government officials kowtowing to the homosexualists (gay equivalent of the Islamists)? Why don’t I jump in here.

In my book, this is not at all about the right to “target people with hateful messages.” Rather, it is about the right of people to engage in both political and religious speech free from government interference.

The public citation of a verse from the Torah/Old Testament was banned by a government body. Does this not have grave implications for religious liberty? We are not talking about “special rights” here — we are talking about one of the fundamental libertie that is written into the Constitution of the United States.

What next? Will we see prosecutions like the one in Sweden, where a pastor is facing jail time for preaching on this same verse? Will we see a Canadian-style speech regulation regime which costs people jail time, criminal fines, civil damages, and (in some intsnces) employment because they express their moral and religiously based opposition to homosexuality in a non-violent manner?

And dare i suggest, rump pumper, that there is something bitterly ironic abouta situation in which one side of an issue (the normalcy and morality of homosexuality) is freely permitted to speak in denigrating terms about their opponents in the name of freedom of speech and the other is banned from presenting its argument by the government under terms of a vaguely worded statute.

And if you go to my site, rump pumper, you can see the actual billboard that was censored. Four versions of one Bible verse, a reference to the Almighty, and a citation of the source of the quotes. You certainly cannot call this an y sort of incitement to violence.

http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/134317.php

So I ask again — has the Forst Amendment been eviscerated by government officials kowtowing to the homosexualists (gay equivalent of the Islamists)?

]]> By: Left Brain Female in a Right Brain World http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41161 Left Brain Female in a Right Brain World Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:11:07 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41161 <strong>Carnival of Liberty XXI</strong> Wow! Hard to believe how quickly this year has flown - here it is Thanksgiving already! Well, if you need some fodder for conversation around the turkey table that is sure to generate lively discussion, you've come to the right place. Carnival of Liberty XXI
Wow! Hard to believe how quickly this year has flown – here it is Thanksgiving already! Well, if you need some fodder for conversation around the turkey table that is sure to generate lively discussion, you’ve come to the right place.

]]> By: Rump Pumper http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41160 Rump Pumper Mon, 21 Nov 2005 05:00:24 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41160 "What seasonal celebrations would those be, other than Christmas?" You've probably heard of both Thanksgiving and New Year's Day. Those both fall under the "holiday season" umbrella, which is one more reason why "Merry Christmas" is overly parochial. Beyond that, I assume there is a rhetorical element to your question, since you probably are aware of other, non-Christmas holidays of a borderline secular and religious nature falling in or near the month of December. "Many people ‘celebrate’ Christmas but, to many more… Christmas is a celebration...Maybe that is why you don’t have the 'petty hang-ups'… its just no big deal to you!" There are plenty of things that are important to me that I might deem underappreciated by society at large. This doesn't stop me from reverently celebreating these pursuits or matters. "Besides…this thread isn’t about Christmas. Its about selective freedom of speech and activist judges." As I told the other guy, if you can indicate exactly how someone's First Amendment rights are being shat on here, go for it. And I admit that when I see someone on a site like this mention the phrase "activist judge" I pretty much ignore it, because I know this effectively translates to "judge that does not unconditionally advance a right-wing kook agenda." “What seasonal celebrations would those be, other than Christmas?”

You’ve probably heard of both Thanksgiving and New Year’s Day. Those both fall under the “holiday season” umbrella, which is one more reason why “Merry Christmas” is overly parochial.

Beyond that, I assume there is a rhetorical element to your question, since you probably are aware of other, non-Christmas holidays of a borderline secular and religious nature falling in or near the month of December.

“Many people ‘celebrate’ Christmas but, to many more… Christmas is a celebration…Maybe that is why you don’t have the ‘petty hang-ups’… its just no big deal to you!”

There are plenty of things that are important to me that I might deem underappreciated by society at large. This doesn’t stop me from reverently celebreating these pursuits or matters.

“Besides…this thread isn’t about Christmas. Its about selective freedom of speech and activist judges.”

As I told the other guy, if you can indicate exactly how someone’s First Amendment rights are being shat on here, go for it. And I admit that when I see someone on a site like this mention the phrase “activist judge” I pretty much ignore it, because I know this effectively translates to “judge that does not unconditionally advance a right-wing kook agenda.”

]]> By: loboinok http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41159 loboinok Mon, 21 Nov 2005 04:44:46 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41159 Besides...this thread isn't about Christmas. Its about selective freedom of speech and activist judges. Besides…this thread isn’t about Christmas. Its about selective freedom of speech and activist judges.

]]> By: loboinok http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41158 loboinok Mon, 21 Nov 2005 04:41:11 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41158 "...range of seasonal celebrations." What seasonal celebrations would those be, other than Christmas? "I’ve celebrated Christmas all of my life, by the way." Many people 'celebrate' Christmas but, to many more... Christmas is a celebration. Maybe that is why you don't have the "petty hang-ups"... its just no big deal to you! Pretty much like the 4th of July. Many fools who have no understanding or appreciation for the sacrifices of our Veterans, can BBQ, get drunk and shoot off fireworks and call it a celebration. What are they celebrating? “…range of seasonal celebrations.”

What seasonal celebrations would those be, other than Christmas?

“I’ve celebrated Christmas all of my life, by the way.”

Many people ‘celebrate’ Christmas but, to many more… Christmas is a celebration.

Maybe that is why you don’t have the “petty hang-ups”… its just no big deal to you!

Pretty much like the 4th of July. Many fools who have no understanding or appreciation for the sacrifices of our Veterans, can BBQ, get drunk and shoot off fireworks and call it a celebration. What are they celebrating?

]]> By: Rump Pumper http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41157 Rump Pumper Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:23:49 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41157 Well, Scott, in the linked article I saw evidence of a Catholic group's anger over a Wal-Mart employee's historical characterization of Christmas, but I didn't see anything about a corporate policy forbidding the use of the term "Merry Christmas," and I saw no suggestion that Wal-Mart is singling out Christmas for active exclusion. All I saw is that employees are being encouraged to use salutations that take into account the range of seasonal celebrations. If I change my sports fandom from "Go Yankees" to "Go A.L. East," am I actively denigrating New York clubs? An idiot from the Bronx might think so, but a thinking person wouldn't. If you believe that a lack of special treatment equates to mistreatment, I'm not surprised -- a lot of Christians walk around with this particular chip on their shoulders. The day the government starts censoring Christmas trees and Santa Claus iconography is the day Jay has a legitimate complaint. I've celebrated Christmas all of my life, by the way. For whatever reason I just don't have the petty hang-ups others do. Well, Scott, in the linked article I saw evidence of a Catholic group’s anger over a Wal-Mart employee’s historical characterization of Christmas, but I didn’t see anything about a corporate policy forbidding the use of the term “Merry Christmas,” and I saw no suggestion that Wal-Mart is singling out Christmas for active exclusion. All I saw is that employees are being encouraged to use salutations that take into account the range of seasonal celebrations.

If I change my sports fandom from “Go Yankees” to “Go A.L. East,” am I actively denigrating New York clubs? An idiot from the Bronx might think so, but a thinking person wouldn’t.

If you believe that a lack of special treatment equates to mistreatment, I’m not surprised — a lot of Christians walk around with this particular chip on their shoulders. The day the government starts censoring Christmas trees and Santa Claus iconography is the day Jay has a legitimate complaint.

I’ve celebrated Christmas all of my life, by the way. For whatever reason I just don’t have the petty hang-ups others do.

]]> By: ScottG http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41156 ScottG Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:09:42 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41156 Here's the link. Just in case you forget how to use google. http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/business/article.adp?id=20051111062209990003 Here’s the link. Just in case you forget how to use google.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/business/article.adp?id=20051111062209990003

]]> By: ScottG http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41155 ScottG Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:08:53 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41155 Try this. It may not be exactly what you're looking for, but it's close. And all you had to do was google "WalMart no merry christmas." Try this. It may not be exactly what you’re looking for, but it’s close. And all you had to do was google “WalMart no merry christmas.”

]]> By: Rump Pumper http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41154 Rump Pumper Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:37:24 +0000 http://stoptheaclu.dreamhosters.com/archives/2005/11/19/freedom-of-speech/#comment-41154 First of all, don't call me or anyone an idiot. The world is overrun with lunatic irony as it is. Second, show me one example of the "censoring" of Christmas -- specifically, a workplace where employees have been warned against using the phrase "Merry Christmas" or an instance in which mention of Christmas has been expressly barred. First of all, don’t call me or anyone an idiot. The world is overrun with lunatic irony as it is. Second, show me one example of the “censoring” of Christmas — specifically, a workplace where employees have been warned against using the phrase “Merry Christmas” or an instance in which mention of Christmas has been expressly barred.

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