One Nation Under God No More
Posted on September 14, 2005
Hat tip to California Conservative
Update: The Becket Fund Vows Immediate Appeal. It’s gonna be a big time fight.
Judge Declares Pledge Unconstitutional
Watch The FOX News Video Coverage
The Pledge of Allegiance was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist whose previous attempt to get the pledge out of public schools was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge’s reference to one nation “under God” violates school children’s right to be “free from a coercive requirement to affirm God.”
Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.The Supreme Court dismissed the case last year, saying Newdow lacked standing because he did not have custody of his elementary school daughter he sued on behalf of.
Newdow, an attorney and a medical doctor, filed an identical case on behalf of three unnamed parents and their children. Karlton said those families have the right to sue.
Karlton, ruling in Sacramento, said he would sign a restraining order preventing the recitation of the pledge at the Elk Grove Unified, Rio Linda and Elverta Joint Elementary school districts, where the plaintiffs’ children attend.
The decision sets up another showdown over the pledge in schools.
The Becket Fund, a religious rights group that is a party to the case, said it would immediately appeal the case to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. If the court does not change its precedent, the group would go to the Supreme Court.
“It’s a way to get this issue to the Supreme Court for a final decision to be made,” said fund attorney Jared Leland.
Newdow, reached at his home, was not immediately prepared to comment.Source
Quick thoughts: Just another reason we need a strict constitutionalist at the Supreme Court. Just another case of leftist legislation from the bench. I’m sure the ACLU will be throwing a party on this one. Now, if only they could get the Koran into the courtroom. I just can’t understand why athiests, who are a tiny proportion of the population feel they have to force their beliefs on everyone else. No one is forcing their children to pledge the flag. If they don’t believe in God and Country, they can simply tell their children not to pledge the flag, or better yet, let their children make up their own minds on what they believe.
Michelle Malkin also following this.
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37 Responses to “One Nation Under God No More”
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Newdow will someday get his just dues.
That is a free ticket from God to spend eternity in hell.
And after they get the Pledge thrown out, they’ll go after the US Flag. I’m sure some atheist will find something else to be offended about!
So let me get this straight– the government leading kids in an oath every morning isn’t imposing beliefs, but not having them do it is? If you’re going to disagree with a ruling, you should probably read it first next time.
Or even better Adam, why not have this judge go read the constitution.
You got it straight, having an “option” to pledge allegience is not imposing beliefs, and to not provide an option because some whiny athiest are offended is imposing beliefs. It’s pretty simple to understand.
Regardless of the merits of the Pledge itself, this judge is either being misquoted by the A.P. or he’s a moron. How on earth could be be “bound” by a Ninth Circuit precedent the Supreme Court has overruled? No standing –> no case or controversy –> no jurisdiction –> no case.
Okay, i don’t get how saying “god” is offensive to someone who doesn’t even believe in god. I’ve got a solution: why not say that part or not say the pledge at all. I think this rulings full of crap. They only took it to the courts because pretty much everyone in America would vote against it if it was on the ballot. People say that the religious right needs to be stopped why not stop the religious left which is made up of athiests the ACLU and extremist judges.
Amen Crystal!
Just FYI, forcing someone to say the pledge is unconstitutional. What Newdow is suing over is the right to not have to listen to other people say it. He’s an idiot. How many of you are aware of Congress’ next action after finalizing the wording of the First Amendment? Um, that would be appointing a Congressional chaplain. If that doesn’t say enough about separation of church and state, I don’t know what does.
I agree there should be some editing of the Pledge, this judge just took the wrong part.
We haven’t been “one Nation” since 2000. Now we’re the Red State, Red-Neck, Bible-thumping, Theocrats and the Blue State, Progressive, Intellectuals.
At least that’s what the Libs tell us.
It’s A Jungle Out There…
(News headlines today have led me to wonder whether the genetic makeup mankind shares with the monkeys has created the jungle in which we live, filled with the shrieks and hooting, fang barring and chest beating that accompanies the fight to dominance for the top limb on the tree).
We must continue to fight or else this will be the saddest day in America since the Emminent Domain ruling.
Children have never been required to say the pledge. Jehovah’s Witnesses come immediately to mind as people who refrain (and have their children refrain) from saying the Pledge at all, let alone the “under God” part.
Leftists concentrating on the “youth” of the Pledge (”God was only added in 1954!) is really a diversion. The Pledge really is little more than a reitteration of the philosophy in the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these TRUTHS to be SELF EVIDENT – that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights …
Yes, “under God” is a religious statement, but it is religious in the context of the underlying philosophy of our Founding Fathers — that the rights of MAN are given by a higher authority that men cannot usurp even as they may try to suppress. The appeal to absolute rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness MUST assume a higher authority than just something made up by men.
And make no mistake… “one nation under God” is not a Pledge to the GOVERNMENT of America but to The People. It is a Pledge we take to each other. NATION = PEOPLE as in “e pluribus unum”..”from many, one”. Indeed, Jefferson held that the People aka the Nation had every right to reinvent the government if the government failed to serve the demands of securing the People’s individual rights.
The pledge unconstitutional is complete BS and anyone who thinks that is a shallow soapboxing moron who has nothing better to do because they most likely lead ineffectual lives. 20 some years ago even in the liberal state of Oregon I was required to say the pledge every morning before beginning class and no one whined about how it somehow hurt their “feelings”. Everyone stood up and recited the pledge, no questions asked, I’m thankful our instructors taught us to love America, it’s sad to see the pledge is no longer required.
Yep, I’m a liberal left-wing wacko, and I couldn’t be happier with this ruling! I’ll tell you why, I LIKE the pledge! I WANT my daughter to say the Pledge! I DO NOT want my daughter to be subjugated to someone else’s religious beliefs, be they Christian, Islamic or Buddhist! When I say the Pledge of allegiance, I should be left feeling uplifted, glorified in the joyous union that is our country, instead I am left feeling hollow, having announced a belief in something that I don’t!
Here in Virginia, every day in public school starts with the Pledge of Allegiance, something that I am presently completely against, due to two words. Without those two words, I am 1000% for it! I merely want to keep people from stepping on my religious toes, as I’m sure you want me to keep from stepping on your toes. I’m all for your religious freedom, and I hope you’re all for my religious freedom as well, however, the government should have nothing but freedom FROM religion, otherwise it begins to IMPOSE that religion on those who don’t follow it! That being said, it has been said that there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity alone in this world, with each interpreting it’s own version of how the world works, which one is right? Which one will be the one the government adopts? Whichever one is chosen, SOMEONE will be offended, so the only way not to offend, exclude and divide is to free government FROM religion!
I’m not saying religion is bad, I’m not saying I hate Christianity, I’m trying to point out that the Pledge is supposed to unite us, the word ‘indivisible’ comes to mind, but with the words ‘under god’ within it, it DIVIDES us, it excludes fairly large segments of the population from fully supporting it. If the Pledge said ‘under Mickey Mouse’ instead, I’m certain you would have a problem with that, and so would I. We are all Americans, let us all enjoy saying the Pledge instead of feeling false and hollow by the end!
Fred evil should change his name to fred idiot.
Fred, do you have a clue what has prompted this suit? Obviously not. Most Constitutional Scholars agree that this suit has nothing to do with religion. Reason, there is no religious denomination being forwarded.
This case is over a child. The attorney who has filed this suit, did so before and it was tossed by the same District Court that made the ruling yesterday. why? Because he did not have custody of his daughter. So he went shopping for a plantiff. All because HE is an atheist. And didn’t want his daughter subjected to a religious influence.
You say you are a lefty. Well that goes without saying. But what you are failing to realize is, Secular Humanism has been ruled by the SCOTUS as a religion.
Torasco V Watkins in the decision is footnoted the following:
Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others.
So promotion of the removal of God is in itself a religion. Time to sober up and smell the skunk, because that odor is you pal.
Fred Stupid:
If you don’t want to say the word “God,” no one is forcing you to. If you find it offensive just because someone else says it, well…
“GOD, GOD, GOD, GOD, GOD, GOD, GOD.”
You hate God. We got it. But you’re trying to stop ME from saying “under God.” That IS supressing freedom of speech AND religion.
Hi Gribbit, foolish of me to hope this could be kept at a reasonable level of adults disagreeing….
I DO have a clue, and I disagree that there is no religion being forwarded, a monotheistic belief structure is being forwarded, as oppsed to no god or ploytheistic structure, which is applying greater weight to a particular TYPE of religion, which is all but the same thing, is promoting one TYPE of religion over another, as opposed to having no influence at all, which is where government should be…
The case IS over a child, the court threw out his case because it decided he didn’t have proper custody over his child due to a separation from her mother…suprisingly, this atheist (and they have no morals) cares about how his daughter is raised, and fought for something he believed in….when that got shot down he did the next thing he could think of, and found some people who believe as he does, who would allow him to fight for them, and by extension for his own daughter….not exactly the way I would want it presented, but I definitely want it presented before the court….
Removal of god is not a religion, when the masses cannot agree on which god to install….there are over 30,000 different denominations/sects of Christianity alone, which one’s belief structure is the one that will be adopted? Whichever you choose, you are to some extent excluding the others…so the only logical way to be all-inclusive is to not be exclusive of many religions, and not assign one the the ‘government-accepted’ version…
If you truly believe that removal of God is a religion, then it sounds like you don’t want me stepping you your religious toes…..try not to do the same to me….and please, behave with a little more decorum, we are adults aren’t we?
Ogre…Umm, I believe I actually said that I DON’T hate god…but since you’ve been trying to put words in my mouth for so long I guess that’s just second nature….say God all you want, in your house, in your church, and the frickin’ mall for all I care…but don’t make my daughter say it, don’t make me say it….THAT’S what freedom of religion is all about!! How about I make you say Atheism 1000 times? Wouldn’t like it would you? maybe then you might know how it feels…I don’t care if you say God…just don’t use the government to bash me over the head with ir ok?
And wow, the maturity just goes on and on here doesn’t it?
First of all, no one is making your daughter say God. And I really don’t care to say athiesm 1000 times. Doesn’t bother me at all.
Now, my question is what is ploytheistic?
Jay,
Dangit, I meant POLYtheistic….that a religious structure involving multiple gods, as opposed to a monotheistic, being one god….
And Yes, someone IS making my daughter say God, and involving it in a Pledge of Allegiance in which she states a belief and subservience to it…
Jay,
How about in the middle of a Pledge of loyalty? If so, maybe I’m just super-sensitive….if so, sorry, I still don’t want to….
Sorry, I meant POLYtheism….the worship of multiple gods…ie the Norse religion, and others of it’s ilk…
Hmmm, my previous attempt at a post was determined to be ’spam’ and didn’t post, will this one go through? doesn’t make a lone dissenter feel all that trusting…
“No one is forcing their children to pledge the flag.”
This is inaccurate. Many schools still require students to say the pledge of allegiance and suspend students for failure to say it.
You might want to back that up with some evidence. Regardless, it isn’t so in this case. And if there is a case such as this, then they should go to court over it if it bothers them enough, at which point I would grant you a valid point.
When the case comes up where someone was physical forced, or threatened with punishment for not saying the pledge because they were athiest, and they are not given the option to say it without the word God in it, then come back talk to me.
Sam? Show me one school that does that. My son’s school has it as an optional activity.
Sam, even in Virginia, it is considered an optional thing, you can’t be punished -by the school- for refusing to say the pledge, but you most definitely stand out, and everyone is made aware of who decides not to participate….ostracizing the kids is left up to the students, who do a pretty darn good job of it…
To the duplicators….It is simple, we are a nation of those with god, and those without, the nation need have no bearing on anyone’s religion, or it will have a bearing on everyone’s religion, just because you are in the majority, and it has historically been that way neither makes it right nor appropriate…after all, in 1860 Slavery was historically acceptable….
Noone is saying take god(s) out of history, that’s simply not possible, and would be a huge catastrophe, as those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it…more wars have been started in the name of religious fervor than anything else….it’s such a basic factor in so many people’s lives, destroying it is neither possible nor desirable, there are huge numbers of people who just make it through the day on the belief that there is something better waiting for them…..I happen to believe otherwise, but acording to our laws, that’s not just my choice, but my right.
The Judicial branch by no means makes laws, they interpret them, sometimes we agree with that decision, and sometimes not….I happen to believe that they are demolishing personal freedoms left and right, taking away my property? I’m no more happier with that than I am with so-called ‘Sneak and Peek’ laws…but if the law didn’t exist, they couldn’t interpret it, so look to teh Congress for writing a law so poorly that it could be interpreted in such a fashion….
Jeez louise, enough with the flagging of my comments as spam…now I’m REALLY starting to think it’s intentional…
Sam – I’m sorry, but I doubt it…even in Virginia, it’s considered optional, although those who don’t certainly mke a spectacle of themselves when they decline to repeat it….
Where have all my previous comments gone? I just realize two previous comments have been removed…following in Fox News’ footsteps and censoring contributors are we?
Hmmm….everything I try to submit is flagged as spam, my earlier comments have disappeared….censorship anyone? Try to have a decent argument, and the MAN oppresses ya huh?
Hmm…I’ve had to change my name, and my previous comments have been removed, everything I try to post is flagged as spam….care for a little censorship anyone? Glad to see you can handle a little difference of opinion in a mature fashion….
Ok….I’ve calmed down, sorry if I flew off the handle but everything disappeared…
Actually, I think I like the term ploytheistic … in certain cases – atheism, secular humanism, radical Islam … quite fitting!
Back to the real debate – the issue is this : This nation WAS founded under a Judeo-Christian’s version of God. Even a devout Atheist (which is a religion, BTW), Buddhist, Taoist, Gnostic, etc. etc. must acknowledge (assuming he/she is logical / reasonable) that the basis for this nation / society is a Judeo-Christian belief system / morals / etc. While noone is forcing anyone to believe / worship in any specific fashion, history is history!
/TJ
… NIF
PS – congrats to Jay for getting up to #32 in TTLB – 2 slots (less than 100 links) away from being a “Mortal Human” … Rock On!
It still amazes me the idiocy of Liberals and non-believers. I thought the hotbed of these criminals was in New England, but it looks like they have occupied Virginia as well. They get all bent out of shape because of UNDER GOD in a pledge. If you don’t believe [edited], don’t say the words,or tune out. Its that frigging simple. But do not come around telling those of is who DO NOT have a problem with those words that we cannot tune in or recite them just to appease your ignroant selfish athiest [edited]. I’m sick and [edited] tired of having MY rights violated because of a small hand full of [edited] like YOU who have NO CLUE asa to how the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are supposed to function. Hint, your re-writing of them is WRONG. Secondly, your just going to have to get it right, that the Pledge is NOT un-constitutional because just simply saying UNDER GOD is NOT Congress Making A Law that Establishes a mandaotry national religion. Its a matter of patriotisim, not religion. If your so unpatriotic and pathetic that you cannot stand to recite the pledge simply because of UNDER GOD, then it is you that has a serious social problem, and should seek medical help. So stop violating my rights, and go learn how to interperate the law properly, then go inform your Liberal judges they are wrong, because…… they ARE wrong.
edited for profanity. We appreciate your support and input but have a ‘no profanity’ policy on this site.
Hi Mr. wonderful, I love you too….
Can anyone who holds an opposing viewpoint to mine other than TJ and Jay actually speak in a respectful and non-condescending tone? it certainly would be nice if we’re to hold an intellectual discussion, if more than one side involves those who behave in an intellectual fashion….
If you want the words in there so much, then add them yourself, but don’t make me subtract them, that’s enforced religious connotation…
Secondly, I believe that while Atheism IS a form of a belief structure, as are religions in general, the assertion the Atheism is itself a religion is functionally erroneous…
From Dictionary.com:
A:Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
B:A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
Nope, doesn’t seem to fall within that definition…however, a later, and therefore less used description..
4:A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Hmmm, I could potentioally see that description being it, but while I do hold it as a belief, the same could then be said of the NFL, or Playstation2
So….sorry, I disagree with you that it is a religion…prove me wrong, don’t just call me names, and declare me unpatriotic, the typical Fox News response won’t float here…
Just a short note. The Supreme Court has ruled Athiesm is a religion. No time to look up source info, but google it and you will find it no problem, it was a recent decision.
77 – in the year 1860, this nation was also based on a system of slavery, just because it’s so doesn’t make it right..
Again, I appreciate your beliefs, I just don’t share them, if you want to climb up on a ladder, and shout your reverence to the hilltops, I’ll hold the ladder steady for you, but don’t expect me to repeat what you’ve said with any conviction, nor should you expect me be to be happy with your expectation of me to say it…it’s about respecting one another’s boundaries, It’s a pledge to the country for crying out loud, not to God, that’s a prayer…and from how I see it, the Pledge was turned into a prayer, whether you agree with me or not isn’t the issue, my rights as an American are being stepped on, and I don’t care for it…I suppose a better question is why won’t you defend my rights as I would defend yours?
Jay – Well there you go….darned activist Judges…I suppose that’s a ruling most folks here agree with though yes?
Jay – If I take your statement as valid, and I will, as I’m just too lazy now to look it up, that may actually strngthen my position, as in that case, Atheism is entitled to protections afforded recognized religions….
NO freedom of religion has been stripped, I deny and decry that statement! You want religion, do it on your own time, but don’t shove yours down my throat! and ESPECIALLY don’t have the government do it!