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	<title>Comments on: Hellewell Blasts ACLU And The Heathen Masses</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/</link>
	<description>Beating Them With Their Own Sickle And Hammer</description>
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		<title>By: T&#38;#38;#101;x&#38;#38;#97;s H&#38;#38;#111;ld&#38;#38;#101;m</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33695</link>
		<dc:creator>T&#38;#38;#101;x&#38;#38;#97;s H&#38;#38;#111;ld&#38;#38;#101;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Congratulations on finally setting up your site. I am sure the website will become a internet legend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations on finally setting up your site. I am sure the website will become a internet legend</p>
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		<title>By: p&#38;#38;#97;rty p&#38;#38;#111;k&#38;#38;#101;r b&#38;#38;#111;n&#38;#38;#117;s</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33694</link>
		<dc:creator>p&#38;#38;#97;rty p&#38;#38;#111;k&#38;#38;#101;r b&#38;#38;#111;n&#38;#38;#117;s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The stuff on this web site is really witty and cool wise</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stuff on this web site is really witty and cool wise</p>
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		<title>By: T&#38;#38;#101;x&#38;#38;#97;s H&#38;#38;#111;ld&#38;#38;#101;m</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33693</link>
		<dc:creator>T&#38;#38;#101;x&#38;#38;#97;s H&#38;#38;#111;ld&#38;#38;#101;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 07:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lovely, informative site, thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely, informative site, thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: good blog</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33692</link>
		<dc:creator>good blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You are the best. Thank you http://www.bignews.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are the best. Thank you <a href="http://www.bignews.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.bignews.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33691</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>“The Christians died for their beliefs in Rome, nobody. ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ We’’ve been done unto. Where have you been the last few years since 911?”

	You’re quite right, Christians were persecuted in Rome.  And the US was attacked on 9/11.  We’ve been wronged, we feel under siege.  I absolutely agree.

	But does that justify committing wrongs against others, especially our fellow citizens who are unrelated to the war?  I, for one, have not been wronged by a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.  The events of 9/11 do nothing to persuade me that we should ignore their legitimate stand of conscience against pledging allegiance to some power other than god.  And now that we are at war, this seems like a particularly bad time to provoke sectarian battles here at home.

	The guys who attacked us are the forces of intolerance, and on 9/11 they killed people of many races, faiths, and nations.  We are the forces of liberty, diverse in perspective but united in the mission of tolerance.  That’s a mission I hope we can all get behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The Christians died for their beliefs in Rome, nobody. ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ We’’ve been done unto. Where have you been the last few years since 911?”</p>
<p>	You’re quite right, Christians were persecuted in Rome.  And the US was attacked on 9/11.  We’ve been wronged, we feel under siege.  I absolutely agree.</p>
<p>	But does that justify committing wrongs against others, especially our fellow citizens who are unrelated to the war?  I, for one, have not been wronged by a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.  The events of 9/11 do nothing to persuade me that we should ignore their legitimate stand of conscience against pledging allegiance to some power other than god.  And now that we are at war, this seems like a particularly bad time to provoke sectarian battles here at home.</p>
<p>	The guys who attacked us are the forces of intolerance, and on 9/11 they killed people of many races, faiths, and nations.  We are the forces of liberty, diverse in perspective but united in the mission of tolerance.  That’s a mission I hope we can all get behind.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33690</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Christians died for their beliefs in Rome, nobody.  “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”  We&#039;ve been done unto.  Where have you been the last few years since 911? If you would like to take a pacifist role, take it.  You can earn your martyrs wings that way.  Some of us are more proactive and don&#039;t buy into the lay-down and turn the other cheek approach.  Jesus tore apart the temple to decry the false.  WWJD now?  Would he be rooting for a group of attorneys who litigate conflicting cases across the nation just because 1)they can do it; 2)it earns them money; 3)they don&#039;t care if those cases are damaging in the long run to a majority of people.  Christians will create their own undoing, if they don&#039;t stand up for what is right.  It is funny how people can lift a saying out of the Bible to suit their own needs and use that as a credo to forget about their other responsibilities in life to their country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Christians died for their beliefs in Rome, nobody.  “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”  We&#8217;ve been done unto.  Where have you been the last few years since 911? If you would like to take a pacifist role, take it.  You can earn your martyrs wings that way.  Some of us are more proactive and don&#8217;t buy into the lay-down and turn the other cheek approach.  Jesus tore apart the temple to decry the false.  WWJD now?  Would he be rooting for a group of attorneys who litigate conflicting cases across the nation just because 1)they can do it; 2)it earns them money; 3)they don&#8217;t care if those cases are damaging in the long run to a majority of people.  Christians will create their own undoing, if they don&#8217;t stand up for what is right.  It is funny how people can lift a saying out of the Bible to suit their own needs and use that as a credo to forget about their other responsibilities in life to their country.</p>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33689</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This isn’t about being Morman per se; it’s about not being Morman in a state that very much wishes to change that.  (No offence to Mormans.)

	Do not confuse cause and effect.  The fact that our country is virtuous may make people feel an allegiance toward it; but the fact that people pledge their allegiance does not make the nation virtuous.

	American patriotism is a paradox.  Every one of our nation’s founders was a traitor to his country.  Why should a country conceived in liberty, not patriotism, betray its founders by promoting patriotism over liberty?

	The great majority of our founders were men of faith.  Yet rather than impose their religious views on the nation, they expressly limited the power of government to do so.  Why should a country conceived in liberty, not a particular religion, betray its founders by promoting religion over liberty?

	Down through the years, Quakers, Johova’s Witnesses and the Amish have been persecuted for their believe that they should not pledge allegiance to any authority than god.  I have difficulty dismissing their faiths as being the result of too much mall and MTV.  Anyway, the ACLU didn&#039;t, and neither did the courts.

	Doubtless, you and I would conclude that many people have raised their children poorly.  And doubtless, many people would reach the same conclusion about you and me.  For me, the question is not who is right, but how do we live in a society where people disagree.  For people who know that they are right, I guess there’s no problem in imposing their views on others.  Osama bin Laden holds this view; do you?

	I don’t.  I and a small number of others follow the teachings of a man called Christ.  Christ taught us to love our neighbors and to “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”  Because I would not like to have others impose their religious practices on me, I resist imposing my religious practices on others.  But we are a small minority.  The great majority of people where I live call themselves Christians, which apparently involves wearing a big cross on their sleeves and chanting “We’re No. 1!  We’re No. 1!”  The fact that Christ himself was a member of an oppressed minority does not seem to influence them, and &quot;doing unto others&quot; is not a big part of their world view.

	I am deeply grateful for our nation, and the liberties and opportunities it affords.  I hope it continues to afford those liberties and opportunities to minorities as well as majorities, and therefore I cherish the civil liberties that preserve them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn’t about being Morman per se; it’s about not being Morman in a state that very much wishes to change that.  (No offence to Mormans.)</p>
<p>	Do not confuse cause and effect.  The fact that our country is virtuous may make people feel an allegiance toward it; but the fact that people pledge their allegiance does not make the nation virtuous.</p>
<p>	American patriotism is a paradox.  Every one of our nation’s founders was a traitor to his country.  Why should a country conceived in liberty, not patriotism, betray its founders by promoting patriotism over liberty?</p>
<p>	The great majority of our founders were men of faith.  Yet rather than impose their religious views on the nation, they expressly limited the power of government to do so.  Why should a country conceived in liberty, not a particular religion, betray its founders by promoting religion over liberty?</p>
<p>	Down through the years, Quakers, Johova’s Witnesses and the Amish have been persecuted for their believe that they should not pledge allegiance to any authority than god.  I have difficulty dismissing their faiths as being the result of too much mall and MTV.  Anyway, the ACLU didn&#8217;t, and neither did the courts.</p>
<p>	Doubtless, you and I would conclude that many people have raised their children poorly.  And doubtless, many people would reach the same conclusion about you and me.  For me, the question is not who is right, but how do we live in a society where people disagree.  For people who know that they are right, I guess there’s no problem in imposing their views on others.  Osama bin Laden holds this view; do you?</p>
<p>	I don’t.  I and a small number of others follow the teachings of a man called Christ.  Christ taught us to love our neighbors and to “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”  Because I would not like to have others impose their religious practices on me, I resist imposing my religious practices on others.  But we are a small minority.  The great majority of people where I live call themselves Christians, which apparently involves wearing a big cross on their sleeves and chanting “We’re No. 1!  We’re No. 1!”  The fact that Christ himself was a member of an oppressed minority does not seem to influence them, and &#8220;doing unto others&#8221; is not a big part of their world view.</p>
<p>	I am deeply grateful for our nation, and the liberties and opportunities it affords.  I hope it continues to afford those liberties and opportunities to minorities as well as majorities, and therefore I cherish the civil liberties that preserve them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33688</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nobody - this isn&#039;t about being a Morman.  If you want to talk about the resistance of children to pledging an allegience that is really an entirely different subject.  Especially, when you point out that this &quot;results in unwilling children actually pledging their allegiance&quot;.  That would fall under a topic of how poor parenting that doesn&#039;t foster a deep belief system in both God and country, will eventually be the ruination of this country.  If those children, who are evidently so poorly taught to be ungrateful to both God (for those who came before them to fight and die for the freedoms they have) and for the country they live in (with all the freedoms and opportunities they have), grow up and retain the same stunted attitudes towards the real values in life (outside of the mall and mtv) this country will go to pot quickly in the future with the likes of them leading it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody &#8211; this isn&#8217;t about being a Morman.  If you want to talk about the resistance of children to pledging an allegience that is really an entirely different subject.  Especially, when you point out that this &#8220;results in unwilling children actually pledging their allegiance&#8221;.  That would fall under a topic of how poor parenting that doesn&#8217;t foster a deep belief system in both God and country, will eventually be the ruination of this country.  If those children, who are evidently so poorly taught to be ungrateful to both God (for those who came before them to fight and die for the freedoms they have) and for the country they live in (with all the freedoms and opportunities they have), grow up and retain the same stunted attitudes towards the real values in life (outside of the mall and mtv) this country will go to pot quickly in the future with the likes of them leading it.</p>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33687</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>God save us from interference with our religious liberties, imposed on us by those radical activist judges like Clarence Thomas.  In Elk Grove Unified School Dist. v. Newdow, the Supreme Court declined to address the Constitutionality of a school policy requiring the Pledge of Allegiance to be recited.  But Thomas dissented as follows (citations omitted):

	In Lee [v. Weisman], the Court held that invocations and benedictions could not, consistent with the Establishment Clause, be given at public secondary school graduations.... Adherence to Lee would require us to strike down the Pledge policy.... [And i]t is true that since this Court decided West Virginia Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette, States cannot compel (in the traditional sense) students to pledge their allegiance....  The “coercion” here, however, results in unwilling children actually pledging their allegiance.
	In Barnette, the Court addressed a state law that compelled students to salute and pledge allegiance to the flag. The Court described this as “compulsion of students to declare a belief.”  The Pledge “require[d] affirmation of a belief and an attitude of mind.” In its current form, reciting the Pledge entails pledging allegiance to “the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God.”  Under Barnette, pledging allegiance is “to declare a belief ” that now includes that this is “one Nation under God.” It is difficult to see how this does not entail an affirmation that God exists. Whether or not we classify affirming the existence of God as a “formal religious exercise” akin to prayer, it must present the same or similar constitutional problems.
	To be sure, such an affirmation is not a prayer, and I admit that this might be a significant distinction. But the Court has squarely held that the government cannot require a person to “declare his belief in God.” Torcaso v. Watkins (“We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person ‘‘to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion’ ”); see also Employment Div., Dept. of Human Resources of Ore. v. Smith (“The government may not compel affirmation of religious belief”); Widmar v. Vincent (rejecting attempt to distinguish worship from other forms of religious speech)....
	I conclude that, as a matter of our precedent, the Pledge policy is unconstitutional.

	[But Thomas then concludes that schools may recite the Pledge because precedent is wrong:  The 1st Amendment bars only the feds from establishing an official religion, not the states.  According to Thomas, each state should be free to establish its own state religion and to incorporate the rituals of that religion into the state’s public schools, among other things.

	Talk about activism.  Take a moment to pray for the non-Mormans in Utah, among others....]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God save us from interference with our religious liberties, imposed on us by those radical activist judges like Clarence Thomas.  In Elk Grove Unified School Dist. v. Newdow, the Supreme Court declined to address the Constitutionality of a school policy requiring the Pledge of Allegiance to be recited.  But Thomas dissented as follows (citations omitted):</p>
<p>	In Lee [v. Weisman], the Court held that invocations and benedictions could not, consistent with the Establishment Clause, be given at public secondary school graduations&#8230;. Adherence to Lee would require us to strike down the Pledge policy&#8230;. [And i]t is true that since this Court decided West Virginia Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette, States cannot compel (in the traditional sense) students to pledge their allegiance&#8230;.  The “coercion” here, however, results in unwilling children actually pledging their allegiance.<br />
	In Barnette, the Court addressed a state law that compelled students to salute and pledge allegiance to the flag. The Court described this as “compulsion of students to declare a belief.”  The Pledge “require[d] affirmation of a belief and an attitude of mind.” In its current form, reciting the Pledge entails pledging allegiance to “the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God.”  Under Barnette, pledging allegiance is “to declare a belief ” that now includes that this is “one Nation under God.” It is difficult to see how this does not entail an affirmation that God exists. Whether or not we classify affirming the existence of God as a “formal religious exercise” akin to prayer, it must present the same or similar constitutional problems.<br />
	To be sure, such an affirmation is not a prayer, and I admit that this might be a significant distinction. But the Court has squarely held that the government cannot require a person to “declare his belief in God.” Torcaso v. Watkins (“We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person ‘‘to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion’ ”); see also Employment Div., Dept. of Human Resources of Ore. v. Smith (“The government may not compel affirmation of religious belief”); Widmar v. Vincent (rejecting attempt to distinguish worship from other forms of religious speech)&#8230;.<br />
	I conclude that, as a matter of our precedent, the Pledge policy is unconstitutional.</p>
<p>	[But Thomas then concludes that schools may recite the Pledge because precedent is wrong:  The 1st Amendment bars only the feds from establishing an official religion, not the states.  According to Thomas, each state should be free to establish its own state religion and to incorporate the rituals of that religion into the state’s public schools, among other things.</p>
<p>	Talk about activism.  Take a moment to pray for the non-Mormans in Utah, among others....]</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah Grilli</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2005/07/21/hellewell-blasts-aclu-and-the-heathen-masses/comment-page-1/#comment-33686</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah Grilli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2005 03:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is not about imposing religion on anyone - it is about the free exercise of religion guaranteed by the First Amendment.  Christians have been losing ground since 1947 because of individuals and groups like the ACLU who want us to check our religion at the door whenever we go to school or work or wherever.  We are free to be religious and equally as free to be non-religious.  It is written into the law of the land, and I will fight until my dying breath to tell Americans and people everywhere that America was founded on Christian principles, and these principles have made us the great and benevolent nation we are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not about imposing religion on anyone &#8211; it is about the free exercise of religion guaranteed by the First Amendment.  Christians have been losing ground since 1947 because of individuals and groups like the ACLU who want us to check our religion at the door whenever we go to school or work or wherever.  We are free to be religious and equally as free to be non-religious.  It is written into the law of the land, and I will fight until my dying breath to tell Americans and people everywhere that America was founded on Christian principles, and these principles have made us the great and benevolent nation we are.</p>
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