Interview With A Former ACLU Lawyer
I thought I would use the weekend to bring over some of my better posts from the old site. Enjoy.
I had the benefit of getting an interview with Mr. Reese Lloyd, a former ACLU lawyer affiliated with the largest Veterans Organization in America, the American Legion. When I called the media relations department there and inquired about their support for Public Expression of Religion Act of 2005 , this is the man they referred me to. I soon found out why. This was a very passionate, wise, and well spoken man.
I first inquired of his history with the ACLU, how he became employed with them, and why he eventually disassociated himself with them. He informed me that he had worked two janitor jobs while attending law school. One day the ACLU did some kind of fellowship interview, and he was given an internship with them. He eventually went on to be on their staff. He focused in the area of worker’s rights with special attention to the deprivation of speech in the workplace…such as whistleblowers.
So why did he leave them? He said, “it was in part because around that time they established a separation of Church and State Staff Position.” He informed me that, “This was funded by Norman Lear and several other Hollywood millionaires.” It seems even back then that Hollywood sided with the secular left. He went on to say that, “the very purpose of this staff position was to push “establishment clause” lawsuits against the government.”
At this point he got pretty fired up, and dominated the conversation for a while. I didn’t mind…what he had to say was passionate and cut right to the truth of things.
“I think it is important that we shouldn’t forget that we had a civil rights movement that was needed in our history at the time. I was around to see segregated bathrooms. There were black and white water fountains. You could sit at a lunch counter next to someone like Charles Manson because he was white, but not someone like Martin Luther King Jr. because he was black. The ACLU played a helpful role in the civil rights movement defending these people, and I can’t turn my back on that. I have to give credit where credit is due.”
“But….that being said, what they have done in the past is completely eviscerated by what they do in the present. The ACLU has become a fanatical anti-faith Taliban of American religious secularism.”
I don’t think I could have come up with a better more colorful description myself. I think I will be sending him a Stop The ACLU T-Shirt. But wait…he was just getting warmed up! He went on to say….
“I have done more cases for minorities and civil rights violations myself than the whole bunch of them put together. I was in the trenches of the Civil Rights movement. They can’t tell me anything about civil rights. We did that 40 years ago, and we accomplished that goal. There are now laws protecting people from those things we fought against. The Civil Rights movement has now taken some crazed “Jesse Jackson” turn to the point that often it is now the white people that are being discriminated against.”
I must say that in this world of political correctness this guy was bold, blunt, and to the point. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who fought the battle of Civil Rights, a soldier who fought for them, and an esteemed former Commander of an American Legions post in Banning, California. He continued…
The ACLU is an elitist organization bent on the social engineering of our Country in defiance of both the legislative and executive branches. What they are involved in is secular cleansing of American History.”
He asked if I were familiar with how Stalin airbrushed people like Trotsky out of photos in order to rewrite history. He went on to compare that to how what the ACLU is trying to do with Christianity in American history. He pointed out many similarities.
Then he got to the good stuff! He repeated….
“The ACLU is involved in the secular cleansing of our history. This is not just a fight about free exercise, but about the protection of our American history. The ACLU want to deny America the knowledge of their Christian heritage.”
“For example, the Ten Commandments in Court Houses. I don’t think this is an “endorsement” of religion. It is an acknowledgment of our history. I don’t care if it causes discomfort to Islamic terrorists, Islamic terrorist sympathizers, or Hindus and their holy cows.”
At this point I felt like saying, ….Bwhahahahah! However I restrained myself like the nice guy that I am. I’m glad I did, cause this is when he got the really good stuff.
“This is a Christian Nation! And we ought to be damn proud it is! Because it is only in Christian Nations where you will find freedom of religion. We are a Christian Nation, and the U.S. Supreme Court said so. The Supreme Court in HOLY TRINITY CHURCH v. U.S. that this is a Christian Nation. That is our history. The history the ACLU wants to erase.”
“Secular Humanism is a religion. Again, the Supreme Court ruled this in Torcaso vs. Watkins. If this is true, then it is being given precedence over other religions in our nation today.”
I finally asked the question that I primarily called for. Knowing that the American Legion is supporting The Public Expression of Religion Act of 2005 would it affect the ability of a poor person to defend their religious liberty by having to pay attorney fees out of pocket? To this question he answered….
“Absolutely not! This legislation would only apply to “Establishment Clause” cases. This would help to keep organizations from being paid attorney’s fees in cases such as the ones where the ACLU is fighting to take down our Veterans’ Memorials. It would only affect these kinds of suits. The “Free Exercise” is not affected at all. So someone defending their right to express religion could still collect attorney’s fees.”
“The ACLU crossed the damn line when they denied the Boyscouts charter on U.S. Military Bases. People need to stand up on this. The American Legion has a creed we say now…”For God and Country Forever! Surrender To The ACLU, Never!” We have 2.7 million members and we are stepping up. And when we step, we march, we don’t mince.”
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Posted by Jay on July 10, 2005 9:58 am
» Filed Under 1st Amendment, Church And State
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91 Responses to “Interview With A Former ACLU Lawyer”
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Nice re-design. WordPress is so cool, isn’t it? All CSS with no HTML tables, save for the calendar (and that’s built in).
As for the topic at hand, I am curious about why some people think that a secular state is such a bad thing. After all, it is not as if religion is in any danger of being outlawed in the US — and you politically savvy folks here at Stop The ACLU don’t impress me as being the sort of people who would subscribe to such wildly ignorant conspiracy theories.
I also do not understand why some people have a problem with the separation of church and state, either. It seems like a very good idea to me because it lends far more advantages to the church side rather than the state, which none of us wants intruding upon the practice of our various and diverse religious faiths.
Some people say that America is a “Christian Nation,” but they are never clear about which specific denomination/sect of Christianity.
If America is a “Christian Nation,” then where does that leave the 30% or so of Americans who are not Christians of one variety or another, are they expected to convert or can they be tolerated as separate but equal?
The idea is that we all should have the right to pray in public. We have had prayer in public at meetings and at ceremonies like the presidential induction ceremony for hundreds of years.
I’d like to know why people think secularism is such a good idea.
We don’t have “separation of church and state” anywhere in our founding documents.
When you go to court, you put your right hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
If you go to a ball game, everyone should be allowed to pray or not to pray according to their belief system. Why is is suddenly NOT ok to do that? I think it’s putting pressure on the majority of us to be Christians in private–and that was not the intent of the founding documents.
John Winthrop, aboard the ship Arabella lying off the shore of Massachusetts, wrote in 1630: “For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God, and all professors for God’s sake. We shall shame the faces of many of God’s worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us till we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going. … Therefore let us choose life, that we and our seed may live, by obeying His voice and cleaving to Him, for He is our life and our prosperity.” (Ronald Reagan often cited Winthrop’s image of a “city upon a hill” as inspiration for his revival of fidelity to our Founding beliefs 350 years later.)
Founder John Adams made an eloquent case for both private property ownership and public religious observance: “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
Welcome back Margaret Toigo,
Let me address this complex topic simply, so we don’t get tangled up in the mess that it has become.
A “secular” country, much like communism or socialism, (which is communism light) is a great idea, in theory.
In practice, as in europe right now, it leads to a nation that loses its’ moral base, and places everything into a twilight of gray, where right and wrong, good and evil, not only exist on the fringes of society, but eventually fade from memory altogether, leading one to place every action into a “situational ethics” decision making process.
In reality this leads directly to socialism, again as in europe, where religion has been placed behind closed doors, much like old mother russia, and then the only ethical or moral question ever allowed to be raised in that society becomes “IS this action good for the state as a whole?”
This leads to abominations such as euthanasia (practiced in parts of europe) due to downs babies being such a “burden” on society, (mostly in an economic concern), and encouraging seniors and the terminally ill to choose suicide, not to mention the rationing of healthcare. This is already happening here in the US.
As for separation of church and state, legally that is fine, but since there is not a LAW that states “The Ten Commandments Shall Be Displayed in Every Courthouse” then the government is NOT endorsing a religion, (NO LAW, NO ENDORSMENT) and therefore the Ten Commandments can indeed be in the courthouse, as the first amendment states “…make no law respecting an establishment of religion”.
Does that clear things up dear?
Margaret, none of us is advocating that the remaining 30%, as you put it, be forced to do anything but respect our faith as we respect your lack of faith if that is the case.
When the ACLU sues to prevent even the most basic expressions of religion then they are clearly in violation of the Constitution. If the ACLU were truly concerned about the United States promoting a state religion then they would take the tough cases, like “In God We Trust” on the money, the Congress opening with a prayer, any President ending his speech with God Bless America.simply too chicken-sh*t to take those case because they will lose. In this great country, people of all faiths and non-faiths are free to practice their religion as they see fit, that is what is guaranteed in the Constitutionnot the active persecution by the ACLU through our court system.
Margaret, Mr. Reese pointed out that this isn’t just a battle about freedom of expression but about protecting American history. The seperation of Church and State stuff is nowhere in the Constitution. Perhaps you should re-read the article.
The best way to address the phantom idea of Separation of Church & State is to go back to the document itself. Since when is Congress involved in the decision to place or not place the 10 Commandments in a local Courthouse? Since when is Congress involved in placing a cross on a hill to honor war dead? Since when is Congress involved in a school’s decision to allow a bible study group to meet on school grounds? And since when has Congress been actively involved in the administration of the Boy Scouts? The short answer is never.
The Constitution states, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion,…”. And until Congress attempts to do so, there is no violation of the “Establishment Clause.”
Our problem with this phantom idea of a Separation of Church & State is that it is
never
referred to in any of our founding documents.
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibitied by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
That however is in the Constitution. There is no power delegated to the United States regarding religion except for the 1st Amendment and the only prohibitions mentioned, and there are two, are that Congress cannot pass a law establishing a national religion and the right of the people to practice the religion of their choice shall not be infringed.
Liberals seem to think that means that the State of Ohio cannot establish a State religion. The document doesn’t say anything of the kind. And county courts and school districts are branches of the “STATE” government not the “FEDERAL” government.
How many times a week do we need to address this issue? It seems that I key this information into a comment section somewhere every 2nd or 3rd day. I’m thinking of saveing this text to a wordpad text document and pasting it in everytime.
End of Rant
Margaret, I couldn’t agree with you more? This site should be named the CLU. Christians Liberties Union. That’s all you want, Christianity. Did you forget that Jesus was one of the greatest Liberals to ever live? You worship him for going against the “norm,” yet you condemn me and call be a Liberal because I think the world would be a better place with no religion. How ironic. You have your Christianity, why to you feel the need to force it upon others? You don’t need religion to have morals! If the world suddenly lost all of its religion, most of the world’s conflicts would end. Would that be a bad thing? Do you really think a God would want you to fight over him? That is exactly what you are doing. There is no God.
Jay-
If you are so interested in protecting American history, then you should be on my side. I want this country the way it was originally founded.
Without “under God” in our pledge.
Without “In God We Trust” on our currency.
Without “So Help me God” concluding our oaths.
Yes, I don’t have to say them, but the government overstepped their bounds by including them in the first place. Yes, I know why.
And I guess you would think they overstepped their bounds by stating in the Declaration of Independence that our rights are given to us by a creator?
Yes, it shouldn’t be there because who is our creator? Our society, government, and law should be based upon fact. I know what you think, which is different from what I think, what sciencetologists think, and what various others think. Who is correct and why? Because the Bible says, what about what the Quran says?
For the sake of argument; “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
I guess our “creator” has a twisted concept of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Why else would he kill people with war, disease, illness, etc (Life?), have things forced upon us like religion (Liberty?), same as Life (Happiness?).
Since the Declaration of Independence mentions “creator” we now have to alter history to add a creator? How silly. Of course this isn’t the reason why they government did it in the first place, it was to fend off communism, which wouldn’t have happened anyway, which just brings us back to why you are fighting the ACLU, because you think they are after communism and yes, I’ve read Gribbit’s posts. I disagree. France doesn’t sponsor any religion, are they communists? Maybe the sciencetologists want “under Alien” instead? How about we put it up for a vote? I cannot fathom your reasoning for keeping it in. God and religion make no sense.
Why should I just accept the Bible for the truth? Why don’t you just accept the facts, regardless of any history, there should be a separation between church and state and I’ve provided my reasoning time and time again?
LOL! Jesus was a liberal? Sure, in the classical sense of the word. However, not today’s socialist democratic party. I highly doubt He would have advocated their current policies of killing babies, euthanasia, censoring religious expression,etc. He may have fed the multitudes, but He wasn’t about hand outs…He was about empowering the individual.
I can’t believe you brought up France in here. I’m going to leave that one alone.
You said: Since the Declaration of Independence mentions “creator” we now have to alter history to add a creator?
huh? It is history, no altering about it. The founders actually wrote that. What are you trying to say? They stated that our rights are given by a creator for a reason. If they were given by the State, then the State would have the power to take them away. So…they must be given by something higher. So the State can try, but it can never take my rights away. That is also why they included the second amendment, so that if the government ever did try to take our God given rights away, we could take them back.
Hey CL, don’t start talking about penises when everyone makes you look like a fool again.
But to answer your question, you should accept the Bible for Truth because that’s what it is. Your name is common logic, yet you don’t have near enough to know you’re living a miserable life (and your speech proves it) and your experience of eternity is going to be torturous, lonely and very miserable.
Jesus is Liberal? Jesus is Jewish. Jewish people are some of the most Conservative people on the face of the earth. Where do you get this bogus info? The Atheists network? Dig into the Bible, my friend, and tell me where Jesus is noted as a Liberal.
So, now that we have that out of the way, are you gonna tell me Jesus is a communist? Like the founder of the ACLU, is Jesus a communist? Did Jesus scream out that communism is the goal?
Grow up, CL. EVerything you say is totally discredited, you have no merit to anything you say and your ignorance level is overwhelming.
In 1954, “under God” was added to the Pledge.
In 1955, “In God We Trust” was added to our currency.
I would call those changes in history.
Man created God so you would have the argument you provided. If there were only man, which of course there only is, without a higher power, man would self-destruct because they would always change the laws they created for what ever reason they wanted, which is happening now. Laws handed down by a higher power can’t be changed because we can’t fight something we can’t see.
Someone, somewhere, was witness to this and created a God. The U.S. doesn’t need any enemies because we will self-destruct over these trivial issues. By stripping away our civil liberties, you are stripping away what this country is all about.
Scientology is becoming more and more mainstream because people are realizing there is no God. Now, we have aliens to look up to. I don’t believe that aliens gave us life. Call me crazy, but I am able to see the similarities between now and then. You are not the solution to the problems, but the reason for them. People need to cease looking elsewhere for reason and look within themselves to do what is right. Then, and only then, will we be able to sustain life. Live your life here and now because this is where you are. Do things to make your life better now and not for the “future.” You are wasting your time. Religion is a waste of life.
Jesus is liberal because he thought outside of the box to promote reform. You are so hung up on labels that you only know liberal v. conservative.
RV, grow up and stick to the discussion.
cl, a few quibbles:
The Declaration does *not* proclaim the right to “happiness,” it proclaims the right to pursue happiness.
Secondly, and far more importantly, you say:
and yet you do not see that you are at least as “religious” as any Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.
Where were you when God was handing out brains?
– R’cat
Cl…Jesus was a liberal in the classical sense of the word. He was a liberator. He liberates us from sin.
R’cat, where is my religion? I guess I subscribe to CLology? I believe that everyone needs to look at their morals and values, where ever they come from and treat people that way. You do not need religion or aliens to tell you to treat others, as you would like to be treated. However, as simplistic as a concept can be, you still throw out childish comments. Is that how you would like to be treated? This goes for you too RV and Gribbit. Thank you Jay for sticking to the discussion. We all know that name-calling is attributed to your own inadequacies. How/why would someone like me want to find religion just to call others names in the name of the Lord? Silly.
Excellent, excellent points, Gribbit. Those who support secularism and total eradication of all evidence of Christianity (including the ACLU) seem to very quickly leave off that part of the first Amendment: “CONGRESS shall…”
cl, you don’t like you don’t like God, you don’t like Christianity, you don’t like the United States. You sure are filled with a lot of hatred. I am sorry for you that you are so consumed with such feelings, honestly. Have you ever been introduced to Jesus Christ?
I think perhaps you have been misled by reading blogs from other people that may not know of what they speak. The heart of today’s liberalism is to take from one group of people and give to another. That’s nearly the opposite of what Jesus offered and suggested — he wanted people to help other people out of goodness, not out of forced taxation and punitive social laws. Thinking outside the box has nothing to do with liberal, conservative, or religion.
As for France not sponsoring any relgion being communist — well, to be communist, and for communism to suceed, one has to indeed remove all vestages of religion. Religion and freedom are enemies of communism.
cl said, “Why don’t you just accept the facts, regardless of any history?” Why, indeed? Because those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it?
Again, I ask, quite seriously, have you ever been introduced to Jesus Christ? I’m not being flip, sarcastic, or anything else, I’m honestly curious and serious.
Ogre, I have little hate and I love the U.S. although it could be even more free. I lead a very sucessful life in all aspects.
I do not hate God or Christians, I just can’t fathom why people believe what they believe. That said, those here who say they are Christian, offer little of their Christian beliefs. I’m not talking actual beliefs, I’m talking practicing what you preech. There is a lot of hate here toward “moonbats and trolls.” This is hardly God’s way.
I was raised Greek Orthodox and attended Church and Sunday School through the 12th grade. My family is religious and on may occasions have they tried to again brainwash me, unfortunately many family events end in conflict because of this. Upon college, I realized that everything I was told to be “true,” in reality, couldn’t be true, but impossible. Upon further investigation, I concluded there is no truth in religion or the bible.
Point, by removing religion, you do not create communism. I want to be free and own my own things. That said, I am not a communist as deemed.
I know you need to study history in order to not repeat the same mistakes, but Jay and others here keep running to documents which mention God and a creator and assume that they should be present in our life. Look at the history of religion and how many have died and still die today because of it. I said that just because they were present in past documents, it doesn’t mean they need to be added. The absence of religion would cease most conflicts. How can you disagree with that?
cl, thanks for responding.
I certainly agree that the US could be more free. In fact, I think there is very little actual freedom left in the United States today. For example, can you name anything that you are allowed to do without asking permission of the Black-Robed Ones? You cannot even own property without asking their permission, and they can now remove that permission at will. The point this post of Jay’s, I believe, was to help point out where the ACLU is working to assist with removal of even more freedoms.
You mention that you cannot understand why people believe what they believe when you concluded there is no truth in religion. However, you point out that many people do not practice what they preach. That is at it will always be — man is indeed fallen and cannot be perfect, no matter how they try. But then again, how can you prove to me that there is wind? It cannot be seen, yet it exists. You can see the effects of wind, but you cannot see it. How can it exist without proof?
You are correct, that by removing religion you do not create communism. However, if you want communism, you have to remove religion. Again, that’s what Jay is alluding to here — the ACLU desires communism, so they have to remove religion to get there.
As for the removal of religion and conflicts…first, it is absolutely preposterous. The only way you could remove religion — ALL religion, would be to completely brainwash and lobotomize every person on the planet. A religion is a set of beliefs, to have NO religion is to have NO beliefs — even in such scientific theories such as gravity. As mentioned before, even secular humanism is a religion. So while the absence of all religion might give world peace, it would be at the cost of all human life, freedom, and free will.
As for your past experiences with religion, I don’t know much (Ok, anything other than the name) about Greek Orthodox, nor where you have been, or what you have seen. I still wonder if anyone has truly introduced you to Jesus Christ. I don’t mean Christianity, I don’t mean the church down the road, Sunday School, or Greek Orthodoxy, I mean Jesus.
Very well said Ogre. Cl, I understand what you are getting at. Imagine no religion. I wonder if you can. Nothing to kill or die for. A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people, living life in peace..you hoo, oohwahoo..you may say that I’m a dreamer.
Your utopian dream is nowhere near reality. Greed and selfishness are the devils of this world. They are the reason why people die. Not God.
Hey CL, I did stick to the issues. That’s your only rebuttal to me is to stick to the issues, but you’re a moron.
Your arguments are pathetic. You have 3 references when talking about “adding” to history.
What about the preambles to EVERY state Constitution? Remember when I posted those? Are you this big of an idiot?
Man didn’t create God, you fool. God created man. Look it up.
I hope you realize you’re not offending anyone but yourself. Your ignorance is still overwhelming.
In the Greek Orthodox religion, Jesus is the Son of God.
A couple coworkers tried to show me Jesus a couple years back. I work for the state and this happen on state property, but the separation between church and state is lax in the south as long as you are on the side of the bible.
They promoted a personal relationship with Jesus. No religion or schedules to follow. I gave them a shot with an open mind, but still don’t see any need. I don’t need to talk to anyone. I know who I am and what I want, so I go out and earn it. I don’t believe premarital sex, drinking alcohol, etc. to be a sin. I don’t do anything evil so why would I need to ask for forgiveness?
If Jesus came here and slapped me on the face and said here I am, the only word I would have for him is, why? Why would a God send his son here to die for our sins? Why not just create a society without sin. Anyone who can speak the world into existence can certainly create a world without sin. Let’s leave Eve out of this. If you bring that up, then obviously you have missed the point. If God has the remote control, then he can do what ever he wants. I don’t buy it. What I still don’t get is why my coworkers were so interested in Jesus? Sure, he died for “our sins.” Assuming he even existed, I’d say he died for being a heretic, not for us. Why bother with the middle man anyway? Why not just talk to God?
Two words: Free Will.
If the world were perfect, no one would ever have the choice to do right or wrong.
But to even state that you would not do anything evil points to the need for a forgiving God — what is evil? Who gets to determine what is evil? Without God, each and every person gets to define, all by themselves, good and evil. If I decide that it is not evil for me to start shooting people on a freeway, who are you to call it wrong?
However, if there is an absolute right and wrong, only God could actually make it so. And God and Jesus give tremendous hope. Without them, what is your purpose? Why do you exist? Why do you choose to do good? If you want to continue this discussion in email, rather than in a public forum, we could do that as well.
Jay,
God created people. God created greed and selfishness. God created people kill. By deduction, God kills.
Yes, I’m dreaming of the perfect society, but I’m only preaching what people like me can understand. Obviously there will still be things to fight over, but with no religion, what’s left? People will want to have everything, but aren’t willing to work for it. We have laws to lock these people up. Trying to change the world to Christianity still requires more faith and like I said, why bother? There is no need.
Jay, what do you see in RV?
Ogre, now you’re losing me. Shooting people is wrong. Would you want to be shot? If you need a God, why not just look to the law. You just used my argument to prove that man created God to govern man because what would happen… Is it in the bible that it is wrong to shoot people on the freeway? Then how do you know? Thou shall not kill? Is that really necessary? I don’t want to be killed so I choose not to kill.
Why do I need a purpose? Why do I need a reason to exist? These are questions for the religious. I exist because my parents had sex. There is no other reason. I am not on this planet for a reason or purpose other than to live. I choose good because it is a less complex life. I treat others, as I want to be treated. Why does there need to be more? It is human nature to want more. Man created God to answer these questions.
You mention free will. We both know it is impossible to have free will and for God to have a plan for us. You can either have a plan, or free will. You cannot have both. I choose to go speed. I choose to drive slowly. Do I really have a choice if it’s in God’s plan for me to do it? I do not choose death, yet it is inevitable. Is that God’s plan or because my body grew old? By the fact that we continually ask question to show our viewpoints proves neither of us have any answers. It is impossible to prove who is right and who is wrong, but does it really matter? I don’t care. I am enjoying my life without a God, which is the way I would like to keep enjoying my life. This site tries to force religion upon me and that is what I’m against.
Lol, CL asks what Jay sees in RV, lol.
COMMON SENSE and KNOWLEDGE!
Something no one sees in CL.
Thanks for the question CL. Your ignorance is, yet again, overwhelming.
“Shooting people is wrong.”
Says who? You? So? What if I don’t think it’s wrong? I don’t understand, if there is no God, who gets to make the rules? Or, is it as secular humanists believe, “Might makes right?” As for you not wanting to be killed so you don’t kill…careful, you’re following the Bible there! If there are to be a set of rules for man, man cannot make the rules, or you are subscribing to the “might make right” theory — in other words, if I am the strongest, I get to not only make the rules, but I get to determine what is right and wrong. If that’s not the case, then where did the idea of right and wrong come from?
The fact that you state that you do not want a purpose to exist is truly disappointing. If you only exist because of your parents, then don’t they have the absolute right to destroy you as well? If not, why? What gives you any rights at all? This is one of the basic premises of the ACLU and Communism, as this post points out — if there is no God, then man makes the rules, even determining right and wrong. Whenever and wherever that happens, people die in the millions.
Free will vs. God’s plan is quite simple — Have you ever had a plan not go the way you intended? I can plan all day long, but they don’t always work out. It is the same for God — he has a plan for you, but you have the free will to avoid it. Why? Because God wants you to have free will.
Also, thinking about your previous comment, “I work for the state and this happen on state property, but the separation between church and state is lax in the south as long as you are on the side of the bible,” I can’t let this slide. You are clearly implying that anyone who DARES to set foot on “state” property — which has now, thanks to the Supreme Court, been declared as quite literally anything the state wants, should absolutely an totally be not permitted freedom of religion. Would you arrest me for standing on the courthouse steps and calling out, “I love Jesus?” What if I dare to drive on the state roads with a bumper sticker that says, “God is Great?” Why do you want to stop me from having my religion? That is what this post is about, and that is what the ACLU is about — total suppression of Christianity.
A fact sheet located at the Treasury Department indicates that the motto “In God We Trust” was first proposed in 1861, and enacted by law in 1863. For more on this information, see:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html
If “CL” wants to believe that religion has no place in secular government, then she at least agrees, as a matter of principle, with our founding fathers, but that in no way changes the fact that the foundations of our government is based on ancient teachings, including the Ten Commandments, which came to us through English Common Law. She may wish to disagree with that, but as has already been pointed out here, one does not build a home and then later decide to go back and change its foundation.
John Locke wrote extensively about “the laws of nature,” believing that nature itself is governed by a Supreme Being. We thus conclude that if a Supreme Being intended that it is natural for people to remain free, mankind has no business imposing strictures that change that intent.
Our history cannot be changed, and I cannot understand why anyone would want to do that anyway. Actual events in time helped to shape our culture; it established traditions and our system of values. Of course, culture and values change over time, for good and bad. No matter how much our nation changes in the future, our people should nevertheless be proud of our history, just as we should be proud of our own individual family heritage. Like our family, some stories about actual events show that mistakes were made and some of our relatives behaved better than others. We cannot change our ancestors, and we cannot change our nation’s history. One of our strong points in America is that we do not attempt to hide our mistakes, or rewrite history to make ourselves feel better.
Remember, the lesson of history is that we must learn from past mistakes in order not to repeat them. Whether looking at our nation’s history, or at family history, we must not wear rose colored glasses. It would have been better for us, as an example, to have never engaged in the slave trade, but it did happen and we should have learned valuable lessons from it.
I quite frankly do not understand efforts of the ACLU to “kill” religion in our country. To my knowledge, no one has ever suggested the creation of a religious state in the USA, nor do we require a religious test in any part of our society. Would not the resources of the ACLU be better allocated to solving real problems in our Nation, such as might involve our pathetic education system, homeless citizens, or in the protection of the innocent?
Neither the ACLU nor myself is trying to rid the country of religion. I have yet to see one example of this happening. Oh, by removing the 10 C’s, under God, etc. This is removing religion? By your argument, then isn’t the placement of the 10 C’s on government of public proberty, under God, In God We Trust, endorcing religion? You still have the right to practice it. I happen to agree that the government should remain impartial.
Ogre, you’ve lost me. You have jumped to the extremes where there is no reason, hence, in general, this site.
“A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States.” provided from the link above.
Then you have illustrated my point. There cannot BE reason to explain everything.
Right, which is why I stray from irrational philosophies like religion in the first place. I stick with my own philosophy, which uses nothing other than logic and reason regardless of where any of it may have derived.
I didn’t know we were arguing that point, I could have saved you a lot of trouble by agreeing with you in the first place. I never said that everything could be explained. I said that there doesn’t need to be a reason for everything, like our existence.
A lot of this thread is missing the point – which was the ACLU’s relation to the nonexistent “separation between church and state” … and even more specifically their role in the following : “Secular Humanism is a religion. Again, the Supreme Court ruled this in Torcaso vs. Watkins. If this is true, then it is being given precedence over other religions in our nation today” …
CL – “This site tries to force religion upon me” … really?
I see lots of questions, some heated some not … but I don’t see anyone holding a gun to your head (figuratively or literally). I also see religious people simply seeking the right to continue being so, as guaranteed by the Constitution.
Also – Leading a reasonably good(?) life is only part of the equation.
To me, it sounds like while you may reject the idea of God your upbringing (which included God) has instilled in you lots of the right ideas … but you are missing the larger picture. If you haven’t, and are willing, I would recommend The Case for Faith …if you do read it, let me (us) know what you think.
/TJ
PS – “I work for the state and this happen on state property, but the separation between church and state” … how does that apply to employees, unless it was on “company time” … and even then, it would be the equivalent of time-card fraud at best. Actually, you could easily argue that they have the Constitutional right to “express their religion” to you …
Straying from religious morals and principles is straying from common sense and all logic.
You choose your battles, CL.
You also choose your losses.
We can all see a logical conversation with a Satanist, ACLU supporting, baby murdering, homo supporting fool is IMPOSSIBLE.
Thank you, CL, for making us appreciate more and more the fact that our parents aren’t South Carolina cousins.
We know, we know…..you’re not FROM South Carolina.
Boo hoo.
I see we AGAIN have been invaded by the godless liberal troll named cl. cl who has no blog of his own likes to troll conservative blogs to stir up trouble.
I’ve asked you a question moonbat… where is my answer? You claim to have answered it several times, but as I scrolled through each of your responses to my question all I see are questions in return. How can words arranged in a particular order offend anyone who doesn’t believe in the source of those words? For that matter how can anyone be offended by a shape that is used as a religious symbol if they don’t believe in the source of the teaching of that religious faith? It is just a shape if you don’t believe. A cross had been used as a symbol of mortality for centuries prior to the birth of Christ. So how can it offend?
And do us all a big favor, if you are not going to answer my questions without asking one of me, then don’t bother. Just shut the h*** up and leave.
Gribbit, if the government endorces religion, then the courts would accept religion, which would bring a bias to individuals such as myself. Said time and time again to answer your question. READ!!!
You never said that, CL. READ!!!!
And another thing, CL, I think you and your ignorant, liberal, atheist, homo, baby killing buddies should stop using the letter ‘t’ in your spelling because, when written properly, it appears to be a cross.
Make sense? Maybe you morons can use a pentogram or 3 6’s in place of the t.
Face it, CL. You’re being run over here, lol. You morons may have a liberal influence in America, but I’ll guarantee your ‘liberal’ and ‘atheist’ labels will be mighty hot when w’re sitting at the foot of the throne.
Lol, tisk tisk. CL…..burnin in hell. I’ll be sure to look down on you every once in a while because I’m sure Ogre, Gribbit, Jay, myself and others may never meet on earth, but we’ll meet someday and we’ll be praying for you.
Hey, fellow logical bloggers, I think CL trolls and moonbats here because he’s aching for prayers. He’s crying for attention and he seeks it from those of us with TRUE smarts. Not just the fake “common logic” name that is overridden by total ignorance.
Hey, CL, you know how I call myself RV, for Republican Vet? Your blogger alias USUALLY has to correspond with your life or something about yourself. In your case, ‘common logic’ isn’t just a term never used by real people, but it has nothing to do with you…..at all.
Getting that interview was a great move. Good post, and keep it up! The more I hear about Mr. Lloyd, the more impressed I am.
This is just too much. CL stands for CLUE-LESS!
We’re not trying to minister to you, CL. We are guaranteed by the constitution freedom OF religious expression, not freedom FROM it. Until recently, we were all perfectly happy with that. Now we’re beginning to experience the tyranny of the minority over the majority, and I find that frightening.
If you go to a public meeting, and they hold a prayer, nobody is hurt by it. The atheist can chose to look out the window. The Buddhist can do his thing. The Christian, his. The Jew, his. By outlawing religious liberty, we’re turning our nation into something other than what our founders envisioned.
And you’re right, we changed the pledge from the words of Francis Bellamy, who apparently was a socialist…to words that don’t reflect socialism. Yes, we actually had the words “under god” added, which simply reflect the intent of our forefathers.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, ‘under God,’ to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Interesting; it’s been that way now for HOW MANY YEARS? And nobody objected. Now you see commies objecting.
Bellamy’s granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. Socialism is not consistent with God’s teachings, that why people who actually read the bible do not buy into this philosophy. Aside from the fact that it is the enemy of freedom, and it has never worked, and has caused millions of innocent lives- it’s the enemy of Christianity. They cannot exist together, which is the only reason why there is a fight now for our holding onto our religious liberty.
If you look at the murders of Christians and what regimes did the killing of these people-(including Vietnam-Pol Pot particularly enjoyed torturing and killing christian chaplains)-you don’t have to wonder very long what ideology promotes freedom and which one does not.
The communists believe that Christianity is the “opium of the masses” and therefore have always sought to destroy it, so they could make government and or the dictator who runs it, the God.
You have to wonder where and how some people got through life without an education. Sheesh.
The things Mustang said make allot of sense. However, I disagree. Modern Conservatism is based on the same principals that Christ espoused.I get so frustrated when I hear Liberals try to say the God they despise is ‘Like’ them. There is nothing Christ ever said, nor anything that can be learned from his life that is Liberal in nature. The Conservative agenda is not anti-Little people. Conservatives want to help the poor by teaching them how to survive without assistance, that is in every way in relation to Christ’s teachings. Cl, you say Christ wanted people to be free to make their own choices. Yes he did. You cannot achieve ultimate Freedom without first being self-reliant! Also, the Bible was not saying you would be free from reproductions due to your actions. He soon ! GOD IS THE ULTIMATE GOVERNMENT…..he just isn’t the liberal, government that believes in oppression! He aides, he passes down laws, he has enforcers of his government(Angels). Just as ‘true’ Democracy provides Liberty and Freedom, so does GOD. As a government, God also taxes his people( Tithes=10% – Liberals would cry if that was our tax rate, and Conservatives would cheer). God has a Jail system, (Purgatory)It is also his Death penalty. It is never crowded and doesn’t have a residual cost, he doesn’t have to worry about accusations of torture, that is a constant in Hell. God sacrificed his own son so that the whole could be saved. I don’t think that is a Liberal Sacrament. Many Conservative American parents are elated when their child joins the military. They are worried, and they wish the need were not there but they know that it is necessary. God too knew this when he sent his son to battle evil on Earth and ultimately die. Can you think of a single Liberal who would send their child to war with full knowledge that he would die? How many Conservatives have done so with PRIDE!?
So it doesn’t appear to me that God’s idea of government is even .000000000000000000001% Liberal., and it also appears that it is 90+ % Conservative. Soooo how is he liberal again?
I have a challenge……..This is for everyone, Conservatives and you Long-Haired-freaky-people on the left. (Note: Conservatives, please still be my friend if I shoot down your ideas,nothing personal is intended)
Challenge: present to me ‘ONE’ way God or Christ is Liberal (by today’s standard) in anyway! I know that there is not a single issue that is Liberal.
PS. And don’t tell me Christ was a Centrist, he put that notion to rest right away, Revelation 3:16
“So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”
Excellent point.
But maybe CL is the preacher here. I mean he cries about adding laws to the Constitution, yet it was his liberal, moonbat buddies who made jurdering babies legal in this country.
Way to go, CL. ClueLess as always.
I fail to see how that is a valid argument. Unless “Congress” attempts to pass a law “establishing” religion, then there is no Constitutional violation. The Constitution is spacific in certain areas because of the intent of the founding fathers. It has been said by many Constitutional scholers that the Constitution is vague for a reason and I tend to agree. Issues not covered by the Constitution in its text are supposed to be state matters. The founding fathers showed that truth in adoption of the 10th Amendment.
Cl, until Congress forces county and city courts to place the 10 Commandments in courthouses, “establish” a national religion, or otherwise restricts the ability for Americans to worship as they please, then the government isn’t forcing religion on anyone. Congress or any other body cannot pass any laws or statutes restricting the right of the American people to worship as they please. But for some reason, the federal court system with the aid of the ACLU is doing just that with no checks or balances.
Yes Cao, cl stands for Clue Less.
Gribbit, still harping on the same argument? You know what’s happening in Congress and the SCOTUS, why do you bother? It doesn’t hold up. What is your record? 1 out of 10?
The problem with this country is the 2 major political parties especially with the extremists sitting of the far ends. There is no compromise in your vocabulary. Hello, I am Independent sitting in the middle. I’m the one who sways the vote. It is conservatives like you that will force me to vote Democrat next time. I’ve long voted Republican, but with all this talk about religion sways most of the Independent votes. You need me, but as you are well aware, a republican won’t be president next time around pretty much because of everything you are after. You are the product of your own demise.
Lol, ClueLess gripes about people harping on the same argument, yet the only thing he can post on SEVERAL times is 3 references to “added laws.”
Hey CL, you still don’t remember your atheist nutjob buddies who legalized murder in the 70’s? Yeah, babies can be murdered now. You don’t think that’s imposing beliefs and laws on other people?
No, because it’s ok that you’re an ignorant atheist because you’re gonna burn in hell because you live an “ok” life.
Dream on.
Lol, CL says:
“You are the product of your own demise.”
Yeah, GOP President for 8 years and you think Howard Dean is making it better on the Dumocraps?
You’re so 2 faced, ClueLess. Get a life.
Please, this post isn’t about abortion, but since you brought it up, how about we compare the number of lifes lost between Republican led wars and abortion. What’s your point? I never said Democrats were a better option, actually, both parties in general stink, but both do have valid arguments. My point is that the Rebuplicans have control in the government and little has been done. That’s all. You have to complicate everything and still can’t even get my views correct. I’m not a Democrat!!!
Well, first of all, what about all the Dummocrap led wars? Did you forget WWII with Roosevelt? Did you forget Korea with Truman? Did you forget Vietnam with LBJ?
You do realize Nixon didn;t create Vietnam, right? And what’s with blaming wars and death on Republicans who had nothing to do with it?
And who in the blue hell said you’re a Dummocrap?
I believe you’re a dummocrap, but no one ever called you that. We call you LIBERAL. Remember your Websters definition of Liberal, lol? It doesn’t say Dummocrap in it, so you have, yet, another invalid argument.
And hey, ClueLess, did you not realize yet that death comes with war? That’s how people with balls (unlike you) defend their country. Comparing people like me who risk their lives and people like other veterans who have given their lives to keep you free to murdering babies is the most idiotic thing you’ve done yet.
You think murdering babies is justified because you think Republican Presidents have killed our servicemembers?
What an idiot you are. The Dems are the ones who led us into the other wars and do you think the numbers from Desert Storm and OIF/OEF equal what your brainless, spineless, ignorant, baby murdering, atheist idiot buddies have done by murdering millions and millions of innocent, unborn babies?
YOU’RE A FOOL, CL! YOU HAVE NO VALID ARGUMENT FOR ANYTHING!
Can you people believe this nutjob, moonbat troll?
CL is definitely an idiot. Apparently all the wars in American History have been started by Republicans and the people who honorably gave their lives for this country were really murdered by Republican Presidents who weren’t even in office during the wars.
Way to go, CL. You’re a fockin typical, liberal moron.
Quite a debate, indeed, Jay. I didn’t mean to post and run the other day, but duty sometimes calls.
And BTW, would you please consider making your comments window sizable? It’s awfully small at resolutions greater than 1024×768 — just FYI.
What is happening to Christianity in 21st century America is that it is finally becoming equal to other religions in the eyes of the state, which means that Christianity is losing the privileges of superiority/dominance.
This has occurred not because people are losing faith in Christ, nor is it happening because America’s government is becoming increasingly secular in its practices. And it certainly has very little to do with the various suits that have been brought by the ACLU over the years (remember,the ACLU doesn’t make the decisions or the rulings of our courts, they’ve just managed to win more cases than they’ve lost).
What has happened over the last 50 years or so is that Americans have become more diverse and American society has learned to embrace that diversity for the great strength that it is, instead of relegating non-males, non-Christians and non- whites to the status of second class citizenship.
Christians are not being oppressed, but rather equalized. Sure, it feels like a step down because that is exactly what it is when you go from superior to equal.
A secular government and a separation between church and state are essential to religious freedom in a pluralistic society.
If the government favors one religion over another simply because it is still the “majority” religion (although the numerous variety of denominations and sects of Christianity cannot produce a real majority consensus on any issue because Christians are quite diversified in their various interpretations of the Word and sometimes contradict one another), then religion – any religion — becomes politicized and competitive when it is supposed to provide moral and spiritual guidance in the realms of society that are supposed to be out of the government’s reach.
I understand that these are frightening and confusing times for some people. Being firsthand witnesses to the historic ascendency of our Western Civilization can be unnerving sometimes because it is so difficult to comprehend its significance.
For those who are so inclined, it is prudent to look to the Scriptures for guidance in these matters of keeping state away from church.
Christ had something to say about public prayer, “5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” — Matthew 6:5-7, KJV
Why do you think He said that? Could it be that our faith is is supposed to written upon our hearts rather than on the graven images some Christians are fighting to keep posted in our courthouses?
Amen, Margaret.
CL, you see how Mararet did that??? That is how you use “common logic” to make an intelligently crafted and respectable debate. You should take lessons.
Margaret…our cause here extends beyond the ACLU to the out of control judicial tyrants who make rulings in favor of the ACLU, and opposite of the Constitution. We are fighting on several fronts.
Dude, CL is the most ignorant hypocrite I’ve ever seen. He’s so against the Bible, he thinks Jesus was a fairy tale, the thinks the Word of God is untrue and then he says
“Amen”
A word derived from the Bible, a word in which Christians say to close a prayer and CL, the moonbat atheist is saying it?
Lol. He just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
You’re right, Jay, he should take lessons on a proper debate. He think people are on his side, lol.
Hey, CL, don’t bother doing your ignorant little dictionary search because Amen isn’t the egyptian god of life. The Bible doesn’t contain words which represent false gods, so don’t even bother trying to act like you have any brains.
Correction, the Bible may contain words that atheists may consider a false god, but the Bible plainly calls against false gods.
10 Commandments.
RV,
I was mocking you using amen, which also means to strongly agree with.
It cracks me up to see that you are trying to figure me out. If I weren’t here, what would you do? You have yet to post anything and all you do is try to make fun of me, which just shows your ignorance. Silly fool.
Jay,
I should take lessons from Margaret on how to write. It would help if this weren’t just a hobby I put little time into. My points are valid, as illustrated so eloquently by Margaret. I find more fun in driving RV and Gribbit crazy. Until you either take away my 1st Amendment right and ban me or maybe when RV, Gribbit, and Cao become civilized, will I leave. Obviously, there is little I can do to reverse decades of brainwashing. I find their banter amusing. After all, this is God at work. Yeah, right.
I understand that your fight must be extended past the ACLU precisely because it is the judiciary, not the ACLU, that hands down the court rulings.
As you already well know, the ACLU only has the power to file lawsuits and has no legitimate control over how judges will decide those suits.
Why you want to “Stop The ACLU” is beyond me when the real source of your consternation seems to be “judicial tyrants” who make rulings you believe to be “opposite of the Constitution.”
Considering this and with all due respect, where’s the logic in stopping the ACLU? You don’t really think that the sort of lawsuits the ACLU has filed and won could not have been filed and won by some other organization or individual, do you?
If some other group or person had filed those suits instead of the ACLU, do you think that the judges’ decisions in those cases would have been any different?
Have you ever thought about how and why the ACLU keeps winning all of these cases?
Do you suspect some sort of criminal conspiracy (such as the ACLU bribing or blackmailing the judges in question) on the part of the ACLU?
Or is it that these judges are upholding our Constitution within the context of contemporary society instead of the era in which it was written?
BTW, are you familiar with the Christian Alliance for Progress? I am merely curious.
See… I say we ban his IP and be done with him.
Lol, tell me about it. He still doesn;t make any sense. He says I’ve yet to post anything? Post what? Where? What am I supposed to post? He asks what we’d do if he weren’t here?
WE’D HAVE INTELLIGENT CONVERSATIONS!
That’s what we’d do if CL weren’t moonbatting like an ignorant fockface on here 24/7.
I say we ban his IP, too. He always blamed me for banning him (which I never did) and he banned me. Such an ignorant little hypocrite.
Lets just either ban him or let him troll around and keep rambling to himself.
I knew he’d use a dictionary definition for Amen and that’s what he did. Although he tried to say Amen means to agree with someone, the actual CL ‘dip’tionary says Amen means: “Used at the end of a prayer or a statement to express assent or approval.”
He used the dictionary and still couldn;t get it right.
Why does he call a self employed American with a college education ‘ignorant?’
Maybe because he copies me when I call him on his brainlessness.
What a fool.
And CL, we know why you moonbat on here. You ignorantly think you’ll gain traffic for your blog which has only had 3 comments in the last 3 months….2 of which were your other personalities acting like readers.
Go on somewhere else, man. Your attention-getting ignorance is ridiculous. You’re a child and a baby in the blogging world.
Lol, I checked out CL’s comment over there and Daldi-ANUS and CL post with aliases with no email or homepage link, lol.
Losers.
RV, you have let America’s finest go to your head. If I were to go through the trouble making people up, I would also get up fake blogs. Sound familiar?
Deleting my comments now? That must be the work of RV, no, he usually rewrites them. Silly fool.
RV- Would you like a list of IP addresses from across the world? Please, you are the one who is playing games.
Lol, games? No one comments on your blog, retard! You just wrote a sob story post to quit blogging a couple weeks ago because “no one hears your voice.”
You’re the ultra liar, CL. You have no merit, no one gives your ignorance any sympathy and you may as well stop blogging. Go ahead and type up some fake IP addresses. Just like all your altered screen shots of absolutely nothing, lol.
I’m playing games? Only 3rd grade girls would offer to type up a phony list of IP addresses “from around the world” LOL!
You alternate personalities that you comment with are NOT from around the world and you bragging about it like a child doesn’t make anyone believe you, lol.
Hey Jay, CL thinks all 50 STOP sites that I took hours and hours to create are ‘fake’ and they’re run by ‘fake’ people, lol!
He gets called out on his own game and then he blames his faults on other people.
If only he knew who was blogging on each site.
And he calls me a silly fool because that’s what I call him. He’s so unoriginal and he can never use his own material. He lets all this tick him off because someone who lives hundreds of miles away from him has him figured out and pinpointed like a road map.
He’s so ignorant.
I checked out CL’s no-traffic blog and he’s only had 15 comments in the last month and 8 of those comments are from CL, lol.
What a loser. 15 comments in 1 month and 8 comments are his own? Are you kidding me? But he has a list of IP addresses from ALL OVER THE WORLD?!?!?!?!? LOL!
Why would he offer to illegally expose world wide IP addresses? No true idiot would even do that……unless the IP addresses were dreamed up by a 15 year old fat boy named CL who plays with his dogs and lives in his mother’s basement.
Ignorant child.
RV…lets not revert to name calling. I’m not going to ban anyone for ignorant comments. Only if they get profane or threatening. I don’t want to get into the whole posting IP address thing again. I know you two can’t stand one another, but maybe you guys should just ignore one another. I know that is hard to do, but…I really don’t care to know about CL playing with dogs, living in his mom’s basement or any of that kind of stuff. I could also care less how much traffic his site has.
CL, The sites RV has set up are not fake sites…they are part of our movement, and I appreciate the hard work he put into it.
Who ever said they were fake? I never once said they were. RV, intrepreted this sites as fake. I was referring to his Hx. He know what I’m talking about. Obviously, they are not fake, you can go to them. He accuses me of posting fake comments. His numbers are inaccurate and childish. I guess I should post the screen shots that I’ve taken here now to prove they are being deleted.
I’ve been trying to ignore him, but lies need to be refuted. Isn’t it a sin to lie?
Hey Jay, I’m not endorsing CL by any means because he talks to himself on his own blog, but if you read his latest post, he says the US isn’t a nation of Christianity. No kiddin. It’s a nation founded on the principles of Christianity.
He also says we’re forcing our religion upon him.
Since when? He doesn’t even know what we believe in, much less what denomination we all are or what doctrine we live by.
I’m trying to figure out why he keeps coming here and getting a real dose of common sense and a real dose of reality and he keeps asking for our principles, then he goes off and says we’re forcing it on him? I guess we don’t have the freedom of speech. I guess when we talk to ignorant little 15 year old atheist wannabes, we have can’t talk about the way we live our lives and why. I mean, we could cry that he’s forcing his ignorant atheism on us, but we’re not stupid enough to believe him and we know the Word of God is the truth.
You see, if CL had enough security in his life, had something to live for and would accept God for the truth, as anyone with even a small brain could do, we wouldn’t see so much hostility and blame in his every day life.
Look at CL’s comments, day in and day out. He’s so negative, so down, so blameful and there’s so much hatred inside him. This is why having and keeping the Lord is so important in our lives.
Ladies and gentlemen, CL needs praying for. This is why he continuously comments here with such hatred and negativity and this is why so much ignorance spews from his childish mouth and fingertips (typing).
We should all keep CL in our prayers and when he comments on here to deny all of this, it’s simply another cry for attention.
CL is a child of God, waiting to open his heart to the Truth and we’re the only ones who can lead him to that day. If CL is a true atheist and seeks no truth in his life, he’ll never comment here again. He’ll walk away from a site he believes nothing in, as we don’t moonbat on atheist sites.
But when CL keeps commenting here, you know it’s his confirmation of this comment and he needs our prayers.
I pray that CL keeps commenting here and shows us his humbleness.
Obviously, RV reads my blog if you know what happens there. Or are you just seeking fuel to disprove me? Please anyone who visits will see your ignorance.
And I got the numbers on CL’s comments directly from his “blog.”
By the way, what is an HX and what is fake about the blogs? CL did say the blogs were fake. It’s plain as day.
CL said: ” I would also get up fake blogs. Sound familiar?”
Hmm……..”common logic” would tell us he’s calling the blogs fake.
Hx=History=medical terminology
HX for history is not a medical term and history has nothing to do with anything here.
And you all know I’ve never had fake blogs. That’s why I’ve been invited and accepted to contribute here, Conservative Angst and I have my own collective blog, Political Medium.
I’m not playing into CL’s ignorance any longer.
I’m praying for CL and we should all be.
Jay, I’d be embarassed by Rv, if I were you. Obviously, he has nothing constructive to say and as I said, this is God’s way? Why don’t you try and set an example. I love this. It cracks me up. The more you ramble crap about me, the further and further away you are from what your after.
No one’s embarrassed for praying for you, CL.
This IS the xample and we’re praying for you. You’re closer to us than you think.
Since I showed up, there is less and less patting of each other on the backs. All your comments are about me. This is what I was after all along and the fact that my commenting makes RV look silly.
Peace.
And letting you know we’re praying for you, CL is very constructive, so until you’re Jay, you shouldn’t try to tell him what to do.
We’re praying for you.
We know this is what you wanted, CL. I told you and everyone else in the post above that this is what you wanted. Your sad, atheist heart is dying for prayer and attention.
Praying for you doens’t make me look silly to people with real common sense. Only you.
We’re praying for you, CL.
Man, CL really played into that one.
He wouldn’t shut his fat mouth until I told him if he’s a true atheist he’ll leave the Christian mix and never comment here again. Once he read that he gave us his “Peace” out.
Is that all we had to do? 84 comments before the moonbat leaves? What a stalker.
We’ll continue to pray for him, you guys, because CL is one sad, broken hearted, ignorant child.
He’ll come around. I have no doubt that we’ll see CL on our side. He’ll leave his liberal, atheist post and stand up for Christianity and Pro Life….one of these days.
Actually RV, no… he’s done that before. He faulse byes more than Ivan the Troll ever did.
Lol. I’m still praying for CL.
I really feel for people as ignorant and uneducated as he is.
Dude, you know how badly it’s killing him to read all this and not comment? You know he comes back here time after time and wants to spew his oral diarrhea…..but he can’t play into this, or he’ll prove how much weaker and ignorant the atheists are.
I told him, Christianity always prevails and those without Christ lack the fruits of the sprit, including patience and self control.
CL has neither, so we’ll hear from him again. Either on here or he’ll post some phony screen shot again on his blog that only he and 2 others comment on, lol.
Such sad ignorance.
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